Game Thread | Tampa Bay vs. Montreal | 11/08/05

[CoRvInA]

Sorry but You guys cant see the forest cause of the trees

Bonk's passes are awesome remember the game winning goal Begin had a few games back if Begin had a better shot he would have put more of those passes in the goal ... even Begin said he was releived he got at least one in ! When Bonk is on the offense he will not be a sniper nor a forward agressive checker .. but if finds the puck he'll put it on the tape thats for sure! take your time next time and watch!.. plus he had his goal and it was stolen from him!

He's doing his job right perhaps 500 grand too much but thats all! but I still expect him to even do better thats the best part about it! he can! and the team could do better too and we could also put 2 digits on the score board too!

[Edited on 2005/11/7 by CoRvInA]

[mathieug]

Ok, tampa's next. I expect this to be a big win for our boys, if we can stay out of the box and shut down the prospal line. John Grahame is so so, the lightnings D is suspect (hello Dan Boyle -7), and last but not least: (montréal its) speed kills! Go Habs Go.

[Roo-AH! Roo-AH!]

Bonk should be getting a few more points, but let's remember (a) he always was inconsistent and streaky---the biggest knock on him in Ottawa and (B) he spent his entire career with one team, so he may still be adjusting to the new system, new city, new linemates, new mentality, etc., etc.. On paper, he was an excellent acquisition and we need to give him a few months before arriving at a definitive judgement.

[Komisarek the Cruncher]

Originally posted by Roo-AH! Roo-AH!

Bonk should be getting a few more points, but let's remember (a) he always was inconsistent and streaky---the biggest knock on him in Ottawa and (B) he spent his entire career with one team, so he may still be adjusting to the new system, new city, new linemates, new mentality, etc., etc.. On paper, he was an excellent acquisition and we need to give him a few months before arriving at a definitive judgement.

I agree, which is why I'm saying that although he as been usefull so far, there is definetly room for improvement. All I'm saying is that I won't be satisfied if he keeps up that kind of production all year. Extrapolated, his stats represent a 0 goal and 22 assists season...would you really be satisfied with that...

Don't protect is stats by saying that its is wingers fault. You watch carefully when he plays and yes he make passes on the tape but the problem is that he makes 1 pass per game. Sorry, but he asn't generated a lot of opportunities for his linemates. Begin plays with the same linemates and generated more points and chances in 2 or 3 games as our #3 center then Bonk...enough said about Bonk and your excuses for him. Can you come up with a excuse for why Begin does better eventhough Bonk is more talented offensively? Doubtful...

Don't get me wrong guys, I like Bonk and I'm not asking for a trade, but I want and expect a little more production from is part, is it too much asking from a guy that has 3 assists in 11 games ans his paid 2.4M$?

[thehabbit]

i think bonk needs a little time, and i believe he will be a very valuable player down the line.....

i think the player that is by far the most worrying for the habs is souray, not bonk. he was supposed to be our first true elite #1 defenseman in years, even playing for team canada at the world championships. souray has definitely been the habs that has played most below his talent this year......hopefully this is due to his off-ice problems with his wife that will fade in time.....somebody on the habs needs to play matchmaker and find him a new woman;)

anyways great to see the habs in first and it would be nice to get some revenge on tampa for the playoffs.....

prediction 4-2 habs

:hlogo::can::hlogo:

:ghg:

[Dalhabs]

I wont predict since last I did we lost... but how about Theo getting a great workout in this game and saves 2 points for us? Maybe thats what Theo need, a 40+ shooting barrage so he wakes up and becomes the phantom from 2002 bruins-encounter. GO HABS GO!!!

[redondo]

Alright, back after a few-game hiatus (hey we won, maybe i should stay away for a while.........noooo, probably not).

Prediction: 5:3 Habs, goals by Zednik, Koivu, Ryder, Sundstrom and Dandenault. Lecavalier 2 and Richards for the Bolts.

GO HABS GO!

[Tony_]

go habs go

[simonus]

hey, anybody watching the pens game on OLN? The picture looks fantastic! They're really fixing up their broadcast.

[Howie_Morenz]

Originally posted by simonus

hey, anybody watching the pens game on OLN?  The picture looks fantastic!  They're really fixing up their broadcast.

Yes sort of. I am watching it on NHL Centre Ice and that pass from Gonchar to Mario was fabulous! The picture quality is better.....

[habsfan88]

come on MTL!!!

[BTH]

Originally posted by Howie_Morenz

Originally posted by simonus

hey, anybody watching the pens game on OLN?  The picture looks fantastic!  They're really fixing up their broadcast.

Yes sort of. I am watching it on NHL Centre Ice and that pass from Gonchar to Mario was fabulous! The picture quality is better.....

I'm watching it on RDS:)

Caron is playing like he's going to be a #1 goalie. No great saves though but he looks good.

[shortcat1]

Wow! Already 3 pages and there's still a day to go before this game starts.

This should be a well attended game at the webBellCenter.

[BTH]

Pens win 3-2. Crosby gets a goal.

[mrgodo]

i want to see millionaires fight.

go habs!!

[JMMR]

Haha i want to see millionaires fight as well.

Here are some stats to ponder before the game

Koivu 21 games vs TB 29 points

Bonk should he play has 33 points in 36 games

Kind of suprising considering those two dont aferage more than a moint a game against most teams. So lets hope the keep that trent going.

[JMMR]

trend**

not trent

and **average not aferage

and point not moint I am tired it is 3am

[Howie_Morenz]

Originally posted by JMMR

Haha i want to see millionaires fight as well.

Here are some stats to ponder before the game

Koivu 21 games vs TB 29 points

Bonk should he play has 33 points in 36 games

Kind of suprising considering those two dont aferage more than a moint a game against most teams. So lets hope the keep that trent going.

JMMR good post. I did not know Koivu and Bonk had such success aganst Tampa. GO HABS!

[Mont Royale]

Originally posted by kaos

As for Garth Murray this guy has been nothing but junk. No points in 12 games and a -2. This was a bad trade, and Gainey got hosed. No use bringing him up.

I wouldn't say Gainey got hosed. I think this trade was more about being fair to Hossa, and giving him a chance to make it somewhere else in the NHL. As someone else on this forum said (sorry, forget who), Gainey is building a team with certain characteristics (grit, determination), and Hossa doesn't have them. If Hossa is valueless to the Habs, how did we get hosed by getting someone likely valueless in return? The alternative was to send him down to Hamilton, at which point anybody could have picked him up for nothing.

:hlogo:

[simonus]

Originally posted by Mont Royale

I wouldn't say Gainey got hosed. I think this trade was more about being fair to Hossa, and giving him a chance to make it somewhere else in the NHL. As someone else on this forum said (sorry, forget who), Gainey is building a team with certain characteristics (grit, determination), and Hossa doesn't have them. If Hossa is valueless to the Habs, how did we get hosed by getting someone likely valueless in return? The alternative was to send him down to Hamilton, at which point anybody could have picked him up for nothing.

:hlogo:

This is a bit of false logic. Sure, Hossa might not be worth anything to Gainey, but the idea in trading is to find someone for whom your player has value.

Let's say you have a copper ring. You have tons of gold, silver, platinum, and diamond rings, so you don't care about the copper one. You wouldn't even notice if it was gone. If you felt like being generous you would give the copper ring away or trade it to your friend for a thumbtack. However, if you were a proper capitalist you should sell your copper ring for something else worth $23 (or whatever) since that its value on the open market.

Now, if you are a really smart capitalist (which we assume you are since you have all that gold, silver, and platinum) and you've read your Keynes, you find some dude who just loves copper and litterally can't find enough of it. You sell it to him for $30.

Gainey's job in making a trade is to find a buyer who values Hossa more than he does. Now, I'm not saying that the trade was bad. I have no idea... I don't really know anything about Murray and I don't really keep up with the Bulldogs. Perhaps Gainey was trying to establish a friendly trading environment with Sathers (seems a bit silly... but I don't know from being a GM) or maybe it was part of future considerations for the Kovalev trade (don't know if there were any). However, the old 'we don't like him, so we don't need to get anything for him' argument doesn't hold water. In fact, I'd argue, if you don't like what you've got you better get something you like when you get rid of him.

[Mont Royale]

Originally posted by simonus

Originally posted by Mont Royale

I wouldn't say Gainey got hosed. I think this trade was more about being fair to Hossa, and giving him a chance to make it somewhere else in the NHL. As someone else on this forum said (sorry, forget who), Gainey is building a team with certain characteristics (grit, determination), and Hossa doesn't have them. If Hossa is valueless to the Habs, how did we get hosed by getting someone likely valueless in return? The alternative was to send him down to Hamilton, at which point anybody could have picked him up for nothing.

:hlogo:

This is a bit of false logic. Sure, Hossa might not be worth anything to Gainey, but the idea in trading is to find someone for whom your player has value.

Let's say you have a copper ring. You have tons of gold, silver, platinum, and diamond rings, so you don't care about the copper one. You wouldn't even notice if it was gone. If you felt like being generous you would give the copper ring away or trade it to your friend for a thumbtack. However, if you were a proper capitalist you should sell your copper ring for something else worth $23 (or whatever) since that its value on the open market.

Now, if you are a really smart capitalist (which we assume you are since you have all that gold, silver, and platinum) and you've read your Keynes, you find some dude who just loves copper and litterally can't find enough of it. You sell it to him for $30.

Gainey's job in making a trade is to find a buyer who values Hossa more than he does. Now, I'm not saying that the trade was bad. I have no idea... I don't really know anything about Murray and I don't really keep up with the Bulldogs. Perhaps Gainey was trying to establish a friendly trading environment with Sathers (seems a bit silly... but I don't know from being a GM) or maybe it was part of future considerations for the Kovalev trade (don't know if there were any). However, the old 'we don't like him, so we don't need to get anything for him' argument doesn't hold water. In fact, I'd argue, if you don't like what you've got you better get something you like when you get rid of him.

Thanks for the lesson, and I agree with what you say, but that wasn't my argument. Capitalism is based on not only supply and demand, but the rules under which the market operates.

Hossa clearly did not have much value - he hasn't proven anything in the NHL, and didn't light the AHL on fire either. By shopping him around, Gainey was making it known he didn't have a place on the Habs. A smart GM (or Sather) would deduce that Gainey would ship Hossa to the minors if there were no takers, so any team could pick him up for nothing. This decreases his value further, to something even less than copper. Sather gave us something just to ensure that he would get Hossa, instead of another team or Hamilton. Getting something that has some remote chance of being valuable (Murray) is better than getting nothing, no?

[simonus]

Originally posted by Mont Royale

Thanks for the lesson, and I agree with what you say, but that wasn't my argument. Capitalism is based on not only supply and demand, but the rules under which the market operates.

Hossa clearly did not have much value - he hasn't proven anything in the NHL, and didn't light the AHL on fire either. By shopping him around, Gainey was making it known he didn't have a place on the Habs. A smart GM (or Sather) would deduce that Gainey would ship Hossa to the minors if there were no takers, so any team could pick him up for nothing. This decreases his value further, to something even less than copper. Sather gave us something just to ensure that he would get Hossa, instead of another team or Hamilton. Getting something that has some remote chance of being valuable (Murray) is better than getting nothing, no?

Hossa's waiver and roster situation lowered Gainey's bargaining power, but the most efficient way to negate this problem would be to position two buyers against each other (not to say that he didn't do exactly that). I really don't have an informed opinion on the value of a trade - perhaps Murray was a great deal, perhaps not. Also, the relative trade values of other players at the same time probably diminished Gainey's options (aka. do you want Roenick, Friesen, or Hossa?). I only question the logic of saying that Gainey was willing to take a loss to help Hossa get a roster spot elsewhere.

[Mont Royale]

Let's face it - the main reason some like to keep talking about Hossa is his last name. If his name was Marcel Smith, everybody would have said "good job getting rid of that bum, Bob". It's nice to dream about what the Habs would look like if he had been half as effective as his brother. Unfortunately, he isn't, and isn't likely to ever be. Kind of reminds me... I lived in Windsor when Keith Gretzky played for the Spitfires... talk about unrealistic expectations.

Anyway, back to the thread...

Go Habs!!

[Howie_Morenz]

Originally posted by Mont Royale

Let's face it - the main reason some like to keep talking about Hossa is his last name.  If his name was Marcel Smith, everybody would have said "good job getting rid of that bum, Bob".  It's nice to dream about what the Habs would look like if he had been half as effective as his brother.  Unfortunately, he isn't, and isn't likely to ever be.  Kind of reminds me... I lived in Windsor when Keith Gretzky played for the Spitfires...  talk about unrealistic expectations.

Anyway, back to the thread...

Go Habs!!

:clap:

Mont Royale you took the words out of my mouth. I hope Hossa goes on to a fabulous career, just not against Montreal. His name is what fuels the fires here and probably will for a long time.

By next year if he drops off their depth chart or becomes a steady 4th line player with limited minutes Gainey can say I told you so. Lets not give Hossa credit for having that name on the back of his jersey until he does something with it.

Montreal has a pretty good young team right now and lets see what they can do this year. Tonights game will be a good test as Tampa has a winning record, they are the Stanley Cup champions, and there is nobody I dislike on their team. I will enjoy this game tonight and will have no thoughts of traded players.

Go :hlogo: Go!!!

[GOHABSGO22]

Hossa had many chances to make the Habs but failed. Everytime the Habs called him up he would score for the first 10-15 games then do nothing. Hossa my have four goals so far but he won't get ten by the end of the season.