alexstream Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I think you can safely remove Aebi, Ribiero and probably Zednick off you list of salaries, i'd be shocked if they were on the team by the time pre season started. I don't they'll go after Langenbrunner either, the right wing is the habs strong set of forwards. I'm pretty sure Aebischer will be our starter by next playoffs... interpret whatever you want. 1. Huet is not re-signed 2. Huet is re-signed but traded 3. Huet is re-signed but Aebi steals the starter job... etc. It's just a gut feeling that I have... (or am I hungry?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 (edited) wow, someone can't take any criticism. So I take it you now agree that there is roster room...but you seem to think signing 2 free agents is not in the Habs budget? No you can't assume that I agree that there is roster room, because I don't. I also don't agree with assuming that Aebischer and Ribeiro will be traded. As well I do not agree with your numbers for Ryder, Komisarek and Ribeiro. How the hell can Komisarek be paid less this year than he did last year? Think about it buddy. You don't make any sense. Komisarek will easily make $1 Million Ryder get minimum $2 Million. HEs a 30 goal man. Kostitsyn is probably closer to $850,000 the max for a guy who was drafted in his year. As it stands the Habs have a glut of forwards. Higgins Koivu Ryder Perezhogin Plekanec Kovalev Zednik Bonk Kostitsyn Downey Begin Murray Ribeiro, Ferland, Lapierre + some others I am forgetting will get a shot in camp Markov Rivet Souray Komisarek Bouillon Dandenault Streit Cote So, no I do not agree that there is roster room on the Canadiens roster,. and I also do not think there is alot of room under the cap. And Mr Gainey is going to have to be very shrewd and clever to make any room on this roster for and free agent additions. Infact its going to be damn near impossible. I'd pretty much bet that the entire roster comes back next year (Ribeiro, Aebischer, Zednik and all the other guys that get kicked around on here) and that the only possible addition that there might be is a depth defensman pickup. The UFA is tight. There are not alot of high quality players available like last year, and there are alot of teams with alot of money who are going to drive the prices up for these players. I think we better get used to last years roster, because its probably going to be unchanged this year. Edited June 19, 2006 by kaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Mr. Nasty, I think you were using this year's contract numbers, not next years. Also, you completely skipped Higgins. Correct values: Known Contracts: Saku Koivu $4.75 million Alexei Kovalev $4.5 million Craig Rivet $2.470 million Radek Bonk $2.394 million Sheldon Souray $2.356 million Richard Zednik $1.976 million Andrei Markov $1.75 million Mathieu Dandenault $1.700 million Steve Begin $1 million Tomas Plekanec $690,000 Andrei Kostitsyn $700, 000 Aaron Downey $475,000 Current total: $25.011 for 12 players Signed, without contract value known: Mark Streit: est. 600,000 Garth Murray: est. 500,000 Current total: 26.111 mill for 14 players Unsigned players: Huet ~ 2.5 million Aebischer ~ 2.5 million Bouillion ~ 1 million Higgins: 1 million Ryder ~ 2 million Ribeiro ~ 1.5 million Perezhogin ~ 1 million Komisarek ~ 1 million Current total: 38.611 million for 22 players Now, it was obvious in the playoffs and the end of the season that Zednik, like Bulis, fell out of favor with the team. A draft day trade with him would free up almost 2 million. Also, Bob Gainey has publicly said that he will be active in the free agent market. The team's most obvious hole is at center. Koivu obviously isn't going anywhere and his eye seems to be doing fine. Ribeiro, however, struggled to keep up with the new NHL. Assuming that Gainey uses the UFA market to upgrade the C position, that means Ribeiro will be gone. That clears up 1.5 mill according to my estimation. This leaves the salaries at around 35 million, or 6-8 million under the projected new cap. Jason Arnott should get no more than 5 million in the UFA market, and that is a generous estimate, only that high because he's one of the better C on the market. Keep in mind, though, this was the first time he put up more than 70 points in a season, and the first time he put up more than 60 since his rookie year. Based on pure value, he should be signed for around 4 million. So even if we sign a guy like Arnott for 5 million, we could potentially have another 3 million to work with, more if Bob can get Huet and Aebi to sign for good values, or perhaps even by trading Aebi. The Habs will be able to make 2 good signings if they so desire. As for Langenbrunner, I don't think the Habs should sign a winger. They've got Higgins, Ryder, and Kovalev for sure and Perezhogin and Kostitsyn will be given their shot to take the last wing spot on those top two lines. Perhaps even Latendresse will challenge for that spot. We have enough wingers to get by without spending money on a guy like Jamie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 This leaves the salaries at around 35 million, or 6-8 million under the projected new cap. Jason Arnott should get no more than 5 million in the UFA market, and that is a generous estimate, only that high because he's one of the better C on the market. Keep in mind, though, this was the first time he put up more than 70 points in a season, and the first time he put up more than 60 since his rookie year. Based on pure value, he should be signed for around 4 million. Assuming Zednik and Ribeiro are sent packing, big if right now they don't have much value and trading them may require another body coming back to Montreal, who could either be bought out or kept as part of the team, Montreal will probably only have about $4 to $5 Million to spend as they will want to leave $4 million or so of cap space to allow for additions due to injury or trade deadline aquisitions. Montreal will not spend more than $40 and at most $41 Million on salaries to start the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Assuming Zednik and Ribeiro are sent packing, big if right now they don't have much value and trading them may require another body coming back to Montreal Zednik could fit in well with another team, he's just worn out his welcome in Montreal. As for Ribeiro, if they can't find any takers, they can always let him walk and become a UFA if they really have no intention of bringing him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Zednik could fit in well with another team, he's just worn out his welcome in Montreal. As for Ribeiro, if they can't find any takers, they can always let him walk and become a UFA if they really have no intention of bringing him back. Sure they may very well be able to trade both of them. But what I am saying is that its entirely possible that a player will come back the other way in that trade. You have to account for that in the salary cap count. Its no guarantee that Zednik or Ribeiro would be shipped out for Prospects or Picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Sure they may very well be able to trade both of them. But what I am saying is that its entirely possible that a player will come back the other way in that trade. You have to account for that in the salary cap count. Its no guarantee that Zednik or Ribeiro would be shipped out for Prospects or Picks. This is true, but if they do get a player back, that is one less FA that would need to sign, so they'd still be getting a player while losing the salaries (or proposed salaries) of those two players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Zednik should be improving and coming into his prime at the moment... (that's a rule of thumb that players are in their prime around 29-30 when they are still top shape, but have gained experience... then they lose speed and strenght and cardio, but gain exp, etc.) fact that Zed couldn't be good last season is really worrysome BTW. the "prime" description I just gave applies 100% to Langenbrunner. (deflecting the subject back ON TOPIC) Langenbrunner along the years, gelled his skills, his coordination, his experience, etc which makes him an extremely dependable player nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Zednik should be improving and coming into his prime at the moment... (that's a rule of thumb that players are in their prime around 29-30 when they are still top shape, but have gained experience... then they lose speed and strenght and cardio, but gain exp, etc.) fact that Zed couldn't be good last season is really worrysome BTW. the "prime" description I just gave applies 100% to Langenbrunner. (deflecting the subject back ON TOPIC) Langenbrunner along the years, gelled his skills, his coordination, his experience, etc which makes him an extremely dependable player nowadays. I'm looking forward to seeing what BG will do about this and other related stuff. So far as I'm concerned, Zednik isn't a dead issue. He's always got great possibilities. Put him with the right players and feed him, it should work out better. He's not a passer, he's a shooter. The only reason he goes is if BG gets something good for him. Ribeiro....? sigh............................................ :king: :hlogo: :king: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nasty Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Thanks for updating it Fanpuck...don't know how I missed out on Higgins. I should have known better than to copy the salaries from TSN. I am probably in the minority but I still like Zednik. Ribs I wouldn't even mind letting him go for nothing (not offering him a contract). I am however convinced that Aebischer has good trade value and will likely be moved. To add to the Canadian Dollar bonus for the Canadian teams...I read that (I think MacLeans magazine) that for every 1cent climb in the dollar, teams save about 3-400k on salaries. Since the dollar is now upto 89cents vs the American dollar...and the pre-lockout rate was around 70cents...that gives the teams roughly 6-7 million more per season to play with (or pocket). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komisarek the Cruncher Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Thanks for updating it Fanpuck...don't know how I missed out on Higgins. I should have known better than to copy the salaries from TSN. I am probably in the minority but I still like Zednik. Ribs I wouldn't even mind letting him go for nothing (not offering him a contract). I am however convinced that Aebischer has good trade value and will likely be moved. To add to the Canadian Dollar bonus for the Canadian teams...I read that (I think MacLeans magazine) that for every 1cent climb in the dollar, teams save about 3-400k on salaries. Since the dollar is now upto 89cents vs the American dollar...and the pre-lockout rate was around 70cents...that gives the teams roughly 6-7 million more per season to play with (or pocket). I would not go as far as 6-7 millions in savings. Canadian teams cover their foregn exchnage risk by buying US$ exchange contracts at a fix price. The buy some contracts for up to 10-15 years sometimes and some for 1 year. They obviously don't cover 100% of their budget with 10-15 years contracts, they cover a certain % over a certain time, all based on predictions as to where the CDN$ will go. I can tell you that at the value of the CDN$ now, all the teams are probably buying contracts for a long time. Anyways, its complicated to explain how this works exactly if you're not in finance, I just gave a quick summary, but in the end, I would say that savings of 3-4 millions max is more reasonable. Unfortunatly, this doesn't apply to the cap which is all in US$. That saving is all for Mr. Gilett's pockets and no one else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 (edited) To add to the Canadian Dollar bonus for the Canadian teams...I read that (I think MacLeans magazine) that for every 1cent climb in the dollar, teams save about 3-400k on salaries. Since the dollar is now upto 89cents vs the American dollar...and the pre-lockout rate was around 70cents...that gives the teams roughly 6-7 million more per season to play with (or pocket). What? Do you really think the salary cap fluctuates based on the rise and fall of the Canadian Dollar? AHHAHAHHAHAHAH....thats hilarious. The only thing the high Canadian Dollar is contributing to is a bulge in George Gillete's wallet. Edited June 20, 2006 by kaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 To add to the Canadian Dollar bonus for the Canadian teams...I read that (I think MacLeans magazine) that for every 1cent climb in the dollar, teams save about 3-400k on salaries. Since the dollar is now upto 89cents vs the American dollar...and the pre-lockout rate was around 70cents...that gives the teams roughly 6-7 million more per season to play with (or pocket). 6-7 million in savings doesn't relate to having more money to spend on players anymore. Before the cap, the difference of the Canadian dollar would have had a significant impact, but not that there is a cap, it doesn't really mean anything. Now it just means they owners can make more profit on their team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch_nl Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Jamie Langenbrunner is a great hockeyplayer. But I wish the Habs get someone better. A center and perhaps a leftwinger. Right now I dream of Vincent Lecavalier but Arnott might be closer to becoming reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I'm looking forward to seeing what BG will do about this and other related stuff. So far as I'm concerned, Zednik isn't a dead issue. He's always got great possibilities. Put him with the right players and feed him, it should work out better. He's not a passer, he's a shooter. The only reason he goes is if BG gets something good for him. Ribeiro....? sigh............................................ :king: :hlogo: :king: he's not a passer, right. he is a shooter? you mean the kind of shooter who can do whatever he wants with the puck? hit the bullseye, etc??? NO!!! Ryder somewhat is. Not Zed... Zednik is the closest thing we've had to a power forward in the last few years. So strong on his skates that he'd go burry the puck behind the goalie. However, he lost his willingness to do that. What use is he then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nasty Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 (edited) What? Do you really think the salary cap fluctuates based on the rise and fall of the Canadian Dollar? AHHAHAHHAHAHAH....thats hilarious. The only thing the high Canadian Dollar is contributing to is a bulge in George Gillete's wallet. that's not what I said. Nor would that make any sense at all :?- What I said was that Canadian teams are fortunate to have a rising dollar. When revenues are in Canadian dollars and expenses are in American it means 6-7 million worth of savings...which if they choose can allow them more room (under the cap) to spend on players if they wish. It is still very relevant under the cap system because most of the Canadian teams do not spend right up to the cap. Montreal would have only gone as high as 38 mill (IMO) if the dollar was still at 70cents...so logic would suggest that if Gillette wishes to invest that money back into the team then he can raise his payroll towards the cap and keep the bottom line. Seriously...the new system was created so that not all teams can go to the cap as the total cost of NHL salaries cannot exceed 54% of revenues...Think about it. B) The new cap has nothing to do with the dollar. Edited June 20, 2006 by Mr. Nasty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nasty Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I would not go as far as 6-7 millions in savings. Canadian teams cover their foregn exchnage risk by buying US$ exchange contracts at a fix price. The buy some contracts for up to 10-15 years sometimes and some for 1 year. They obviously don't cover 100% of their budget with 10-15 years contracts, they cover a certain % over a certain time, all based on predictions as to where the CDN$ will go. I can tell you that at the value of the CDN$ now, all the teams are probably buying contracts for a long time. Anyways, its complicated to explain how this works exactly if you're not in finance, I just gave a quick summary, but in the end, I would say that savings of 3-4 millions max is more reasonable. Unfortunatly, this doesn't apply to the cap which is all in US$. That saving is all for Mr. Gilett's pockets and no one else. yes your right. I said the dollar help Canadian teams finacially...which they can use on slaries if they wish...in no way do i mean it affects the cap. Also your right that the saving is 3-4 mill (which is preety darn good). That being said...good management of money would suggest that the US exchange contracts purchased with a high Canadian dollar significantly help the bottom line for Canadian teams that was not possible 2years ago...when George said what level of commitment of salaries he was comfortable spending. Another point I did not see mentioned on this board was the revenue sharing system the league is using as part of the new CBA. This past season the Habs I believe were one of the teams were considered to be in the top 10 financially and had to pay into the system. Year end figures reported that they have fallen to the middle of the pack and will not have to pay any out to other teams next year...I could be wrong on this but I think it was in the Montreal news at the end of the regular season. 6-7 million in savings doesn't relate to having more money to spend on players anymore. Before the cap, the difference of the Canadian dollar would have had a significant impact, but not that there is a cap, it doesn't really mean anything. Now it just means they owners can make more profit on their team. your making an assumption that the Canadian teams (other than Toronto) would have spent the league maximum (44 million) on player salaries. Not gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nasty Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 somehow I think the fact that a minor grammar error was pointed out had little to do with the fact that the typo was wrong. It had a lot more to do with the fact that I challenged his thought...which made no sense whatsoever. First I was told I had no idea what I was talking about...probably because I am new to adding comments on this board and Kaos thinks that I must therefore lack in Habs knowledge. When I show them that my thoughts are valid and actually prove it, they try to point out minor details to save themselves embarassment. :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 (edited) In his post-season press conference Gainey confirmed that the CH's spending status was now, thanks to the fans, competitive with any of the other teams in the circuit,...constrained only by the prevailling cap itself.... and this I must say,..was good news indeed. But above and beyong payroll, there is within an organization many other aspects in which additionnal spendings from the owner could provide substantial results for the franchise successes,.....scouting and developpement,..to name but two of them. As far has I know there is one person scouting for the CH in western Canada, one in Europe, one in Russia and none in Quebec ???? and I am not too shure about the Eastern provinces....anyway I have heard negative things being said about the CH's innapropriate scouting scope....specially in Quebec. Its seems that players developpement might also be left behind as well. I was surprised to hear Latendresse's coach in Drummondville complaining that neither him nor Guillaume had have any advices, programs or follow throught support of any kind coming from the CH. I think more could be done for what seems to be an important prospect from the last draft. Anyway, Canadian dollard and all, the higher the owner's profit the better......as it can be re-invested in the organization to ultimately promote continued successes by reaching and securing top level quality hockey in Montreal for years to come. The fans have done their parts and so did Andre Savard by providing the team Komisarek, Higgins, perezhogin, Plekanec and most likely Kostitsyn next season.........it's now opt to Gainey to do his part and to bettered his last inter-season performances by bringing in the right elements in order to move forward. PS: A word about Langenbrunner......another Dallas connexion players that could plausibly be interested in signing here if invited. Appropriatly described as a '' Higgins senior '' by Alexstream,... how could Carbo not be interested as a coach to get him as well. The CH needs forwards shooting right,...all forwards are left handed and so are all the prospects.....except for Lapierre (maybe). So Brunny and Arnott would bring some right handed goods on top of the other pertinent qualitys to the CH's needs. The combo wouldn't be higher than 8,500.000 and the CH can afford them as long as Zednick, Ribeiro and Abeisher are not part of the payroll equation and that Bonk is bought-out and replace by Lapierre. With Danis, Downey, Ferland and Streit as substitute the CH could be around 40,000.000 which is 4,000.000 below the now official 44,000.00 cap limit. Abeisher Edited June 20, 2006 by PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nasty Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 In his post-season press conference Gainey confirmed that the CH's spending status was now, thanks to the fans, competitive with any of the other teams in the circuit,...constrained only by the prevailling cap itself.... and this I must say,..was good news indeed.... ...Anyway, Canadian dollard and all, the higher the owner's profit the better......as it can be re-invested in the organization to ultimately promote continued successes by reaching and securing top level quality hockey in Montreal for years to come. exactly, that sums it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Am I the only one who believes Arnott is the key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Just a note letting people know the silly grammar discussion we were having has been split and moved to the Lounge. We were getting just a bit off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsfan88 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Good idea Fanpuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Am I the only one who believes Arnott is the key? He is DEFINITLY the key. No doubt. we lack size: Who's got size? ARNOTT we lack grit: who's got grit? ARNOTT we want more speed: who's got speed? ARNOTT we want a right handed Center: who is a right handed center? ARNOTT we want a 2nd line Center: who can play 2nd line center like no others? ARNOTT! (1ppg on the second line is damn good) With Gainey being vocal about wanting a player with these qualities. With the habs having somewhat of a surplus of money. With ARNOTT being a UFA. With ARNOTT having Dallas ties (although it's not a factor, it can help). etc. If I had to put my money on a UFA: On which UFA would I put my money? ARNOTT!!! PS: A word about Langenbrunner......another Dallas connexion players that could plausibly be interested in signing here if invited. Appropriatly described as a '' Higgins senior '' by Alexstream,... how could Carbo not be interested as a coach to get him as well. The CH needs forwards shooting right,...all forwards are left handed and so are all the prospects.....except for Lapierre (maybe). So Brunny and Arnott would bring some right handed goods on top of the other pertinent qualitys to the CH's needs. HAHA, well yes, I love Langenbrunner, IMO, he's always been top 5 on the most recent teams in NJ. Their most complete forward. Not nearly as good as Niedermayer, but if you were to draw comparisons, he'd be the Scott Niedermayer of NJ's offense However, (and you might get it from my most recent post) I do prefer Arnott... cause Arnott represents everything we need, everything we want (center, right handed, size, etc) I'd be thrilled to have Langenbrunner, but he's 2nd on my list. Cause... although they're not right handed, guys like Higgins can do the job. No one can do Arnott's job though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komisarek the Cruncher Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 He is DEFINITLY the key. No doubt. we lack size: Who's got size? ARNOTT we lack grit: who's got grit? ARNOTT we want more speed: who's got speed? ARNOTT we want a right handed Center: who is a right handed center? ARNOTT we want a 2nd line Center: who can play 2nd line center like no others? ARNOTT! (1ppg on the second line is damn good) With Gainey being vocal about wanting a player with these qualities. With the habs having somewhat of a surplus of money. With ARNOTT being a UFA. With ARNOTT having Dallas ties (although it's not a factor, it can help). etc. If I had to put my money on a UFA: On which UFA would I put my money? ARNOTT!!! HAHA, well yes, I love Langenbrunner, IMO, he's always been top 5 on the most recent teams in NJ. Their most complete forward. Not nearly as good as Niedermayer, but if you were to draw comparisons, he'd be the Scott Niedermayer of NJ's offense However, (and you might get it from my most recent post) I do prefer Arnott... cause Arnott represents everything we need, everything we want (center, right handed, size, etc) I'd be thrilled to have Langenbrunner, but he's 2nd on my list. Cause... although they're not right handed, guys like Higgins can do the job. No one can do Arnott's job though. That pretty much sums up what I think about Arnott too. Even if that's all BG does this summer, I will be a very happy Habs fan (it also includes getting rid of Ribs ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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