Qualifying Offer Thread

[alfredoh2009]

9 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think you are overlooking the advantages the current have over he late 90’s habs. L The late 90’s habs were a cheap team that wasn’t willing/able to spend, which limited their ability to compete almost as much as the actions of management.  The current team has no financial constraints.  The only reason they suck so much is the incompetence of management.

I thought the salary cap is a financial constraint that they have now that they didn't have in the 90s

[hab29RETIRED]

29 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:

I thought the salary cap is a financial constraint that they have now that they didn't have in the 90s

Sure, it’s a constraint now for the high revenue teams.  In the late 90’s and early 2000’s the habs we’re unwilling/unable to spend money and were crying poor. The friggin  Avs spent almost double on their roster than we did.

[alfredoh2009]

1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Sure, it’s a constraint now for the high revenue teams.  In the late 90’s and early 2000’s the habs we’re unwilling/unable to spend money and were crying poor. The friggin  Avs spent almost double on their roster than we did.

Based on your comments, it seems like it is difficult to compare roster composition and pay structure between both time periods

[DON]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Based on your comments, it seems like it is difficult to compare roster composition and pay structure between both time periods

However, if had won cup(s) then with biggest team salary, we wouldn't mention that. 

[hab29RETIRED]

1 hour ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Based on your comments, it seems like it is difficult to compare roster composition and pay structure between both time periods

If anything, MB doesn’t have salary constraints Houle did.  The habs couldn’t afford, or were unwilling  to keep the few good players they had and financially couldn’t competed with Detroit, Colorado, New York, Toronto among others.  They were constantly crying poor and complaining (justifiably so) about the $10m annual property  tax assessment for the bell centre.  In the other hand,  MB can spend as much as any of the other top revenue team in the league.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

14 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

"As those terrible Houle teams"

 

I agree with the late teams. 96 team was very, very good. 97 team was still pretty good but being quickly torn apart. 98-00 were garbage. The year he was fired early in 00-01, was the worst Habs team in history for season results and last year he was close to that. 

 

The current club has a Pacioretty on his way out after his worst season, an out of position Drouin with second line scoring, Domi coming in unable to score 10 goals in an 82 game season, won't have Weber for half the season, will have Petry playing 1RD again for half the season, atrocious D otherwise, Gallagher had his best season and it was only 54 points, like what else is there other than maybe Price plays like the best goalie in the league? Are we hoping for a 50 point season from Danault? Scherbak or Lehkonen do better than 35 points? Am I supposed to be impressed by Domi when nine Coyotes scored more goals than him last year? Am I supposed to think Alzner will bounce back? What am I missing?

 

This team is as bad as those teams. We just don't have to live through skate in the crease rules. And much like back then, we have to deal with the Leafs and Bruins being better. When the only thing one can say in pride is at least we are not the Ottawa Senators, what's there to look forward to? The Houle years at least had Koivu. Drouin is no Koivu.

 

I actually agree with what you write here. The reason for thinking this year's team will be a "bit better" is the plausible belief that Price will bounce back with, say, a .920 save percentage. That will translate into more wins than last season, everything else being equal. Remember, he had a .900 save % last season - absolutely atrocious goaltending.

 

Houle's trajectory as GM more or less mirrors Bergevin's. He inherited quite a strong hand, and despite this, the team got progressively worse and worse the longer he was in the chair. There is no clearer sign of incompetence than this kind of slow, relentless King-Midas-in-Reverse process.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I actually agree with what you write here. The reason for thinking this year's team will be a "bit better" is the plausible belief that Price will bounce back with, say, a .920 save percentage. That will translate into more wins than last season, everything else being equal. Remember, he had a .900 save % last season - absolutely atrocious goaltending.

 

Houle's trajectory as GM more or less mirrors Bergevin's. He inherited quite a strong hand, and despite this, the team got progressively worse and worse the longer he was in the chair. There is no clearer sign of incompetence than this kind of slow, relentless King-Midas-in-Reverse process.

 

Agreed.

 

And some don't get it that Bergevin walked into a situation where the Habs only had to compete with an unstable Tampa, inconsistent Ottawa, and declining Boston in their division. Their conference was a mirror New York, underachieving Washington, and disheveled Pittsburgh. 2014-2017 was a real window to make the final. In that time, Bergevin believed in Therrien. He stuck to Desharnais. He only had temporary solutions for 1RW. He didn't think Subban was good enough. He thought defence mattered more than scoring. He thought physicality was the missing ingredient. He trusted Sylvain Lefebvre in the AHL. And with the final years of Markov, he never found his heir, let alone a 2LD to play behind him.

 

I don't expect him to be perfect. Pittsburgh won back to back Cups with an imperfect defence. But with this many issues during the Cup window, he closed it himself. Bergevin will be remembered as a GM who sat back on decisions the team needed most, and was always proactive on decisions the team didn't need to answer.

 

And now we go into the season with a captain that reports said requested a trade, and I'm supposed to what? Ignore all this? Give Bergevin and the team a clean slate? I don't know what some expect on a discussion forum.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

24 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Agreed.

 

And some don't get it that Bergevin walked into a situation where the Habs only had to compete with an unstable Tampa, inconsistent Ottawa, and declining Boston in their division. Their conference was a mirror New York, underachieving Washington, and disheveled Pittsburgh. 2014-2017 was a real window to make the final. In that time, Bergevin believed in Therrien. He stuck to Desharnais. He only had temporary solutions for 1RW. He didn't think Subban was good enough. He thought defence mattered more than scoring. He thought physicality was the missing ingredient. He trusted Sylvain Lefebvre in the AHL. And with the final years of Markov, he never found his heir, let alone a 2LD to play behind him.

 

I don't expect him to be perfect. Pittsburgh won back to back Cups with an imperfect defence. But with this many issues during the Cup window, he closed it himself. Bergevin will be remembered as a GM who sat back on decisions the team needed most, and was always proactive on decisions the team didn't need to answer.

 

And now we go into the season with a captain that reports said requested a trade, and I'm supposed to what? Ignore all this? Give Bergevin and the team a clean slate? I don't know what some expect on a discussion forum.

 

Some fans really do seem to be satisfied with a team that 'has a chance to make the playoffs.' If all you want is a team that could make the playoffs if everything goes just right, then sure, MB is doing at least a passable job. And so is every other GM including Dorion, because every team always has a chance to make the playoffs if everything goes just right.

 

Others seem to take the view that our role, as fans, is to get behind the organization, no matter what; and that this rules out serious critical assessment of the GM or anyone else.

 

But for those who don't subscribe to these approaches, I have a really hard time seeing how the case against MB is other than open and shut.