Commandant Posted August 7, 2016 Author Share Posted August 7, 2016 The point is this.... Canada supposedly hires the best management teams they can, right? Those teams have made attrocious mistakes, right? Oh and the 2010 team (no stamkos) and the 2014 team (kunitz over St.Louis and Giroux) have madd mistakes.too, even if they had enough talent to win in spite of those mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 You commented about his lack of production against the flyers. My point is that no one on our team did squat, so it's hardly fair to single out Cammy. Hell, we could have still used him th past couple of years. Yes, I wouldn't of been hugely surprised if Bergevin did try and get him, but he seems to have a long contract now and safe to say is old enough to not be a target anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 The guy scored 38 points in 42 games last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Yeah, the loss of Cammy was actually pretty big for this organizational, structurally-speaking. He WAS the top-6, scoring forward that the Habs have needed ever since, and are all now hoping that Radulov can be for one season. And they threw him away. That's what happens when you get rid of top talent for reasons having to do with managerial ego, rather than hockey reasons, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Yeah, the loss of Cammy was actually pretty big for this organizational, structurally-speaking. He WAS the top-6, scoring forward that the Habs have needed ever since, and are all now hoping that Radulov can be for one season. And they threw him away. That's what happens when you get rid of top talent for reasons having to do with managerial ego, rather than hockey reasons, I suppose. Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher Cammalleri - Plekanec - Radulov Oh what could have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher Cammalleri - Plekanec - Radulov Oh what could have been. Not really. If they have Cammalleri and his $5M, there's no way they'd have been able to afford Radulov's $5.75M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Not really. If they have Cammalleri and his $5M, there's no way they'd have been able to afford Radulov's $5.75M. Don't trade for Shaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Don't trade for Shaw. Yes, that's a possibility but would they still have moved Eller then if they weren't getting Shaw? It's a lot of what ifs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 There would have been no reason to waste money on a washout like briere. We went from cammy to bourque, added Briere and dumped him for parenteau. Would have been much better off just keeping Cammy. I think he out produced all 3 of the bums we got to provide offence. Yes, that's a possibility but would they still have moved Eller then if they weren't getting Shaw? It's a lot of what ifs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 There would have been no reason to waste money on a washout like briere. We went from cammy to bourque, added Briere and dumped him for parenteau. Would have been much better off just keeping Cammy. I think he out produced all 3 of the bums we got to provide offence. Okay. I didn't mention any of those guys. My point was that they probably wouldn't have had the ability to have both Cammalleri and Radulov, nothing to do with the likes of Briere and Parenteau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 Not really. If they have Cammalleri and his $5M, there's no way they'd have been able to afford Radulov's $5.75M. They may not have paid someone else along the way.... like Shaw.... or maybe DD never gets 3.5 million, or maybe another piece is moved. Hard to say.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Or they could of landed Rick Nash, Getzlaf, Kopitar or Corey Perry in a trade for Price. Hindsight and what if's are what they are, fantasyland stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Or they could of landed Rick Nash, Getzlaf, Kopitar or Corey Perry in a trade for Price. Hindsight and what if's are what they are, fantasyland stuff. The point is, Cammy left a big hole that has never been filled. And MB's attempts to fill it have thus far been a joke (maybe Radulov will do better). The idea that we could not have kept Cammy AND added another top-6 FW is dubious, since good GMs would find a way to clear the cap space to make it happen, especially when they've got relative dead-weight like DD on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Or they could of landed Rick Nash, Getzlaf, Kopitar or Corey Perry in a trade for Price. Hindsight and what if's are what they are, fantasyland stuff. We're not talking about fantasyland. We are talking about one bad decision that compounded into multiple bad decisions. I like how you shift a discussion about a bad move that led to more bad moves to fantasy trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Exactly. Bad contracts MB gave to Emelin and DD would have been the issue of being able to have both cammy and radulov, had the ghost not given away cammy for scraps. The point is, Cammy left a big hole that has never been filled. And MB's attempts to fill it have thus far been a joke (maybe Radulov will do better). The idea that we could not have kept Cammy AND added another top-6 FW is dubious, since good GMs would find a way to clear the cap space to make it happen, especially when they've got relative dead-weight like DD on the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 The idea that we could not have kept Cammy AND added another top-6 FW is dubious, since good GMs would find a way to clear the cap space to make it happen, especially when they've got relative dead-weight like DD on the roster. It's really easy to say any good GM can clear cap space. We've seen this offseason the type of cost it takes to do so, it's not anywhere near as easy or painless as it sounds in general. No GM could move Desharnais right now based on the market that's out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 The point is, Cammy left a big hole that has never been filled. And MB's attempts to fill it have thus far been a joke (maybe Radulov will do better). The idea that we could not have kept Cammy AND added another top-6 FW is dubious, since good GMs would find a way to clear the cap space to make it happen, especially when they've got relative dead-weight like DD on the roster. He could of traded Pacioretty also and got a great return, they could of hired Pierre McGuire or Julian Brisbois...is all just daydreaming/nightmare stuff and could of made 1,000 different un-dubious choices easy enough, but they didn't and most of actual facts and real reasoning are unknown to fans, but wont stop speculation by us. Cammy...what a goofy nickname, still sounds like something you need penicillin to cure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 They may not have paid someone else along the way.... like Shaw.... or maybe DD never gets 3.5 million, or maybe another piece is moved. Hard to say.... Agree, except I would put it more as "impossible" to say with any certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Yes, that's a possibility but would they still have moved Eller then if they weren't getting Shaw? It's a lot of what ifs. Weren't they trying to move Eller prior to the draft? Also if they were just sitting on their 30 points at best third line centre while he's worth two seconds and not moving him to get something better from the cap space... yikes. And the better being Shaw... talk about buy low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 He could of traded Pacioretty also and got a great return, they could of hired Pierre McGuire or Julian Brisbois...is all just daydreaming/nightmare stuff and could of made 1,000 different un-dubious choices easy enough, but they didn't and most of actual facts and real reasoning are unknown to fans, but wont stop speculation by us. Cammy...what a goofy nickname, still sounds like something you need penicillin to cure. Whatever...all else being equal, the team would have been better with Cammy than it's been without him. That's the main point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Weren't they trying to move Eller prior to the draft? Also if they were just sitting on their 30 points at best third line centre while he's worth two seconds and not moving him to get something better from the cap space... yikes. And the better being Shaw... talk about buy low. I think they had been trying to move him for a couple of years now. I don't think the plan was to simply dump him without getting a replacement back though, hence the timing of the Shaw deal. I don't think one necessarily happens without the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 a year after moving cammalleri, they moved Eric Cole (4.5 million)... for Michael Ryder. Ryder then left as a free agent. They clearly were able to fit Cammalleri and Cole both under the cap, and that cap was much smaller than today. So why wouldnt' another top 6 winger have been able to fit? Cam gets his own money, new guy gets Cole money plus part of the cap increase Oh well... whatever... its fun to speculate, but its all ifs and butts and alot of moving pieces, so it still brings us to the main point. The Habs were a worse team when that infamous Bruins game ended than they were before the game started. The present and future of the franchise were both dealt some damage with that trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 And likely would be better if had of drafted Kreider and Kuznetsov instead of Leblanc and Tinordi and not traded McDonagh. But of course, hindsight and what ifs can be spun however you like. That would be my main point. Also, 4 different GMs have let him walk, so cant be that valuable a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 Define "let him walk" Cause some might say 3 different teams (Edmonton, LA, St. Louis) let the greatest player ever "walk" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Define "let him walk" Cause some might say 3 different teams (Edmonton, LA, St. Louis) let the greatest player ever "walk" Greatest player ever, maybe in your eyes? How did 99 do as a d-man or goalie, which are both much harder positions to play than a floating forward, and he played in an era when no-names got 70g or 100+ points. How bout most skilled forward of all time, that I would buy. Tired discussing Squid, is he the #1 best free agent and there is not any competition? I cant think of any, but don't know who all was signed as a free agent, seems most undrafted good ones were traded for by Habs. Seems a pretty short list anyways. We're not talking about fantasyland. We are talking about one bad decision that compounded into multiple bad decisions. I like how you shift a discussion about a bad move that led to more bad moves to fantasy trades. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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