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Statistical evidence? Weber averages 17.8 goals per 82 game season, while Subban averages 11.90. That's like 45 % more goals per season. I thought this team needed to score more, especially on the powerplay where a bulk of Weber's goals come from. And throwing out point totals, Weber is 47.6 per 82 game season and Subban has 52.5. So the point totals aren't as much of a discrepancy as the goal totals. In the playoffs, Weber has a higher goal per game rate than he does in the regular season and so does Subban, who also has a higher points per game. To me we got a better goal scorer instead of a better play maker. And we are talking as recent as last season, Weber 20 goals to Subban's 6. Age? Yes Weber is 3 years and 9 months older.....we're not talking a rookie vs a washed up veteran. Contract? It's highly debatable whose contract is better. You can even argue that both work better for their respective teams. The 10 year number on Weber's contract is thrown around as if he is going to be hobbling around the ice at 40 years old for the Habs. 10 years is an eternity in the NHL and the new CBA is due before then. Because his contract is front loaded, it's very likely he will retire before the duration of the contract, which Nashville is on the hook for cap wise. So to say 10 years left of Weber at that cap hit is not likely. I think people underestimate that extra 1.2 million per year in savings, as if it's mere scraps. Subban is going to be the highest paid defenseman in the entire league for 3 more years until Doughty and Karlsson are due for a new deal. The highest paid....Is he going to be the best defenseman in the league for that period of time? The eye test? You mean a subjective opinion whereas many have differing opinions? Personally I think Subban is amazing but that's because I've watched 90% of the games he's played. I can probably count on two hands how many games I've seen Weber play, and I'm sure most are in a similar boat. There's a reason why he has been a captain for 6 years and won the best leader in hockey trophy just last season. I don't like bringing up the team Canada selection because I don't necessarily believe they pick the best players available and they should. However they do select who they think comprises the best team. That means who fits into whatever it is they are trying to do the best. Would I have made the trade myself? No. Am I going to shit all over management because I don't like it? Not until it is proven to be the wrong move. If they deemed that we need a rugged armor plated Hummer instead of a sleek fast Ferrari (credit to PMAC), they are within their rights to make that judgement call. For it is their job and livelihood to evaluate their players and all the inter workings associated with them. It's not being blind dumb sheep to follow them and back every move they make, it's believing in people that want the same thing that we all want. The team has put up impressive results under this management group so they deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point in time. If say in 1 year, 3 years, 5 years etc, things have gone terribly, that is the time to dump on them.

One thing I feel confident standing behind is that last season montreal had one game changing player who made the entire team better and was worthy of being top 3 in salary in the entire NHL. His name was Carey Price. Crosby makes Armstrong Hornqvist etc better Towes makes shaw better Ovie scores goals like an animal. Doesn't need to make anybody better. Subban was the 5th highest paid player in the league. Might have been 3rd highest. I'm not sure when Kane and towes money started. When he held out for 9 million, he said I'm the 3rd best hockey player on earth and you can play me with Emelin and it won't matter. I didnt like the trade. I'm sick over it, but I'm also not blind to some of the negatives that suban brought. His cap hit being about the only one. Habs29. I know he should have signed a 12 year front loaded thing. His breakout season was the first year of his bridge contract so I don't lament that as much. I do agree with you in hindsight, but at the time the bridge was signed, I wasn't against it. Weber is way overpaid too. And less of a player. But he is tradable. Subban was overpaid and would have been untradable

Subban doesn't do these end to end rushes like everyone claims. It's partly system but it's partly him as well. By the 3rd guy, he'll cough it up 9 times out of 10 or feel like he has nowhere to go. I'm not going to argue over a word but it depends on your definition of reliable. I consider the stay at home defenseman of a pairing the more reliable player 10 times out of 10. Who's more reliable, Alex Galchenyuk or Tomas Plekanec? Perhaps it depends on your definition once again but I know my pick. Subban electrifying the crowd comes with the consequence of electrifying the other team when he coughs it up. Partly my point. Perhaps Weber will have us hemmed into our own zone more often but it will be as a result of low risk plays. That's what I meant by more reliable. Although I forgot, the plays are NOT high risk because he is PK Subban so my point is moot. Subban sucked for Subban. I have no regrets saying it and clearly you're forgetting last season. Perhaps you're a little too sensitive from the other posters who have attacked Subban. He had a really bad year despite his offensive numbers. That's my point. I like Subban but he stood out in a negative way as well last season. I'm not saying anything that isn't true.

Exactly his small moves were decent. When it came time to pull a blockbuster. He shit the bed.

Don gets mad at players who don't Rispek Da Sysdum

Actually, you are quite wrong. First, I've consistently agreed the team will be better overall next year (while maintaining that the Subban trade is a bad mistake that will haunt us for years) - although I believe that it will struggle more than in the past against super-fast forechecks from Pittsburgh and TB in particular. Secondly, I've never taken an axiomatic position on management - unlike your cheerleading self, or people who always hated them irrespective of what they did. The problem with The Trade is that, in addition to replacing our best player besides Price with an inferior one for no discernable hockey reason, it was one of those rare moments of what Yeats called 'character isolated by a deed.' It exposed, in other words, how management really thinks: i.e., hidebound, old-school, non-adaptation to the evolution of the game, prizing being a good Company Man and arse-kisser to management over performance on the ice, prioritizing personal ego over success. As Lovett said, Good Old Boy management. Leafs-style management. A management team that expunges a prodigiously gifted talent for the heinous crime of being too flamboyant (or driving a hard contractual bargain) is not one that truly has winning at heart, nor one that deserves our allegiance or trust. That said, when they do make a good move, I'll say so, as I always have.

No, the actor of course.

You're right. Saying that "if we win the Cup it will be despite Bergevin" is too strong. The appropriate observation is that Bergevin will have inherited most of the core that won him the Cup; his major 'adds' would have been Galchenyuk, a no brainer pick of the Oilers variety, and Gallagher, a brilliant pick for which he deserves credit. Shaw and Radulov could be useful pieces - I think Shaw will be for sure. In terms of core pieces, though, he was handed three spectacular pieces - Price, Subban, and Patches - and managed to f**k one of them up. He will not deserve credit for "building a winner." He will deserve credit for adding some useful elements, but not for managing to watch the remaining bits overcome the goggling stupidity of the Subban deal.

Yes, that is one positive, as is Weber's intimidating presence around the crease. Of course, Subban is significantly better than Weber in pretty much every other aspect of the game, not to mention younger, which is why the trade remains stupid. You seem to have missed the "or a reasonable return" part of that sentence. But I guess those wishing to defend The Trade need to create the most cartoonish, absurd version of the argument against it, since it's so massively hard to defend in rational terms.