Looking ahead to 2007 draft

[bobby]

Pretty sure that the Habs will be looking for a big left winger, or left handed centre, with their first pick. They are loaded with netminding prospects (provided they can SIGN Carey Price), and they drafted four defensemen last year. Lots of right wing and right shooting centre prospects in the system as well. Early candidates would be Colton Gillies out of the WHL, who sounds like a clone of Bob Gainey at the same age, and Maxim Mayorov in Russia. Both are big strong kids who skate really well.

[alexstream]

Best player available.

No matter what.

Latest example?

Carey Price

[MAK]

Best player available.

No matter what.

Latest example?

Carey Price

so you think montreal should draft a goalie if he's the best player available !?!?

I'm kidding of course. since we draft over the 20th spot, I'm sure we'll pick the best player available. however with some of our kids maturing on wings, I'm pretty sure BG would love to get an offensive center even if it means gambling a little on a player with offensive talent but with some downside.

other than that, I'm sure BG will adressing the size issue on evey position and maybe fill up our D a litttle more.

anyways, I trust timmins and his lads will find us some more gems.

Pretty sure that the Habs will be looking for a big left winger, or left handed centre, with their first pick. They are loaded with netminding prospects (provided they can SIGN Carey Price), and they drafted four defensemen last year. Lots of right wing and right shooting centre prospects in the system as well. Early candidates would be Colton Gillies out of the WHL, who sounds like a clone of Bob Gainey at the same age, and Maxim Mayorov in Russia. Both are big strong kids who skate really well.

I'm BG would rather dratf a right handed center for we almost have only left handed Cs.

we already have one: chipchura

Edited January 7, 2007 by marky_and_komi

[bobby]

Carey Price the best player available at #5 overall? Anze Kopitar and Guillaume Latendresse might disagree with that, just to name a couple. Paul Statsny and Marc Vlasic are NHL regulars already, and at least half a dozen other players taken after Price have played in the NHL already. My choice at the time was Kopitar, and still would be. Habs passed on Kopitar because they knew they made a mistake with Kostitsyn a couple of years earlier, and were afraid to take another chance on a big fish in a small pond.

"Best player available" is a totally subjective phrase. It means nothing. The so called "best player" from a particular draft or a particular spot in a draft can change by the week. If you want to use Price as an example of anything, it would be to prove that. Carey did next to nothing for 18 months after being drafted, and everything in the past 2 weeks. He isn't as bad as he looked earlier, and he isn't as good as he looked at the WJC.

Edited January 7, 2007 by bobby

[bobby]

Kyle Chipchura looks as much like a Bob Gainey clone, as I look like Anna Kournikova. Gainey's two outstanding qualities coming out of junior were his speed and his great shot. Chipchura has neither, and while Gainey stepped directly into the NHL as a 19 year old, Chipchura will never be more than a fringe NHL/AHL bubble guy. Chipchura isn't any different from Garth Murray.

[MAK]

Carey Price the best player available at #5 overall? Anze Kopitar and Guillaume Latendresse might disagree with that, just to name a couple. Paul Statsny and Marc Vlasic are NHL regulars already, and at least half a dozen other players taken after Price have played in the NHL already. My choice at the time was Kopitar, and still would be. Habs passed on Kopitar because they knew they made a mistake with Kostitsyn a couple of years earlier, and were afraid to take another chance on a big fish in a small pond.

"Best player available" is a totally subjective phrase. It means nothing. The so called "best player" from a particular draft or a particular spot in a draft can change by the week. If you want to use Price as an example of anything, it would be to prove that. Carey did next to nothing for 18 months after being drafted, and everything in the past 2 weeks. He isn't as bad as he looked earlier, and he isn't as good as he looked at the WJC.

of course it's a subjective phrase. every team makes it's own appreciation of the available players.

while one would think that kopitar was a better player then price could be argued but I guess mtl brass had a vision of the future and it didn't include josé theodore so carey price now becomes an obvious choice.

reasons why kopitar and latendresse weren't taken that quickly is that kopitar comes from a country with no hockey history and maybe scouts didn't see him as much and latendresse came back from a slumpy season and a shoulder injury. otherwise, he would have gone in the first round for sure.

Kyle Chipchura looks as much like a Bob Gainey clone, as I look like Anna Kournikova. Gainey's two outstanding qualities coming out of junior were his speed and his great shot. Chipchura has neither, and while Gainey stepped directly into the NHL as a 19 year old, Chipchura will never be more than a fringe NHL/AHL bubble guy. Chipchura isn't any different from Garth Murray.

I guess garth murray was taken in the 1st round, and of course, murray was captain of a wjc gold winning team.

chipchura has undeniable leadership quality but he needs to pick up on skating.

[Psycing]

On the best player available...

If the Habs aren't interested in the best player available, they'll trade down as they did last season to pick Fischer. Although the scouts may believe that Fischer was the best available, not everyone did which allowed them to move down. That could happen again.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Habs trade up for a change to get a guy they really want though.

[bobby]

, he would have gone in the first round for sure.

I guess garth murray was taken in the 1st round, and of course, murray was captain of a wjc gold winning team.

chipchura has undeniable leadership quality but he needs to pick up on skating.

Murray was a checking line forward on the 2002 WJC team (I think they won silver), and scored more points in the tournament than Chipchura did in 2006. He has leadership qualities as well, I'm not sure if he wore a letter for Team Canada, but they are essentially the same player.

Edited January 8, 2007 by bobby

[bobby]

On the best player available...

If the Habs aren't interested in the best player available, they'll trade down as they did last season to pick Fischer. Although the scouts may believe that Fischer was the best available, not everyone did which allowed them to move down. That could happen again.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Habs trade up for a change to get a guy they really want though.

I think the reason they traded down from #16 last year is that they got such a good offer for their pick. I don't think it had that much to do with who was on the board. They may have thought that Wishart would slip down a few more spots, or that Mark Mitera would still be there. I don't think that they were targeting Fischer necessarily (though you won't ever get them to admit that), but the offer of the Sharks second round pick was too good to pass up. As it turns out, the guy they got with the second round pick, Mathieu Carle, may well turn out to be the better defenseman. Based on early results, Mathieu looks like a first round talent, and Fischer looks like a second rounder at best.

[BTH]

Kyle Chipchura looks as much like a Bob Gainey clone, as I look like Anna Kournikova. Gainey's two outstanding qualities coming out of junior were his speed and his great shot. Chipchura has neither, and while Gainey stepped directly into the NHL as a 19 year old, Chipchura will never be more than a fringe NHL/AHL bubble guy. Chipchura isn't any different from Garth Murray.

hmm.. you seem to know what you're saying but the odds say you're most likely extremely wrong about Chipchura. He's not just your usual grinder like Johnathan Ferland. Not even a guy like Lapierre. He's actually one of the better defensive (forward) prospects in the league, right now. He could very well be our captain someday, as he was with Team Canada (and lead a so-so team to a gold medal). Works hard, great attitude, has decent size at 6'1. His offence isn't that bad either. He can easily pan to be an ideal 3rd line centerman in the NHL. With an attitude and work ethic like his, he's not the kind of player to miss his potential.

As to the Murray comparison, Chipchura is a much smarter hockey player and much more talented hockey player (not that he's a Zherdev or anything). Murray also isn't leading anyone in the NHL. He's just a guy we sit on the bench. Like Johnathan Toews did this year, at every level Chipchura will lead his teammates (some of them older and better players) and also lead by example.

His main weakness is his skating but it isn't that bad and apparently it's getting better. It can't be any worse than Latendresse's skating and he's certainly holding his own in his rookie year.

Anyways, this is one of those things where we'll have to wait a couple of years to see who's really right. But for now, I'll keep on backing up Chipchura - there's no team in the league who wouldn't want to have this guy in their system.

[dark_faerie87]

Carey Price the best player available at #5 overall? Anze Kopitar and Guillaume Latendresse might disagree with that, just to name a couple. Paul Statsny and Marc Vlasic are NHL regulars already, and at least half a dozen other players taken after Price have played in the NHL already. My choice at the time was Kopitar, and still would be. Habs passed on Kopitar because they knew they made a mistake with Kostitsyn a couple of years earlier, and were afraid to take another chance on a big fish in a small pond.

So in other words, a player's overall talent and "awesomeness" is determined by how fast they make it into the NHL? Wow, that must mean that a guy like Daigle (cracked the NHL at 18) is sooooo much better than some lameass late bloomer like Ryder or Streit... Also, best player available doesn't necessarily best player at the moment, but rather player with the most potential and likely to reach it.

I think the reason they traded down from #16 last year is that they got such a good offer for their pick. I don't think it had that much to do with who was on the board. They may have thought that Wishart would slip down a few more spots, or that Mark Mitera would still be there. I don't think that they were targeting Fischer necessarily (though you won't ever get them to admit that), but the offer of the Sharks second round pick was too good to pass up. As it turns out, the guy they got with the second round pick, Mathieu Carle, may well turn out to be the better defenseman. Based on early results, Mathieu looks like a first round talent, and Fischer looks like a second rounder at best.

Wow, you're going to evaluate defensemen just a mere six months after they were drafted? Give me a break, honestly.

hmm.. you seem to know what you're saying but the odds say you're most likely extremely wrong about Chipchura. He's not just your usual grinder like Johnathan Ferland. Not even a guy like Lapierre. He's actually one of the better defensive (forward) prospects in the league, right now. He could very well be our captain someday, as he was with Team Canada (and lead a so-so team to a gold medal). Works hard, great attitude, has decent size at 6'1. His offence isn't that bad either. He can easily pan to be an ideal 3rd line centerman in the NHL. With an attitude and work ethic like his, he's not the kind of player to miss his potential.

As to the Murray comparison, Chipchura is a much smarter hockey player and much more talented hockey player (not that he's a Zherdev or anything). Murray also isn't leading anyone in the NHL. He's just a guy we sit on the bench. Like Johnathan Toews did this year, at every level Chipchura will lead his teammates (some of them older and better players) and also lead by example.

His main weakness is his skating but it isn't that bad and apparently it's getting better. It can't be any worse than Latendresse's skating and he's certainly holding his own in his rookie year.

Anyways, this is one of those things where we'll have to wait a couple of years to see who's really right. But for now, I'll keep on backing up Chipchura - there's no team in the league who wouldn't want to have this guy in their system.

Well said, young padawan.

[JMMR]

Excellent points Dark.

1. The reason the Habs did not draft Kopitar is the same reason 10 other teams did. He was a high risk player. Kostitsyn was not a mistake he is still very young. Is Perezhogin a mistake?

2. If Chipchura becomes a 3rd liner and is not a foctor on a regular basis for the Canadiens I would be shocked.

3. Indeed the Habs will search for a right handed centre, or any right handed forward.

4. Also with Espo dropping in the draft I would love for the habs to take a shot with him.

[bobby]

I won't debate the opinion points, but to say that the Habs will look for right handed shooters seems doubtful. Last year they drafted Ryan White, a RC who is leading the WHL in scoring, along with three RD. In 2005, they drafted RW Latendresse playing well in NHL, RW Mikus best Slovak player at WJC, RC Aubin, playing well in AHL, RW D'Agostini, playing even better in AHL, RW Kostitsyn best Belarussian player in WJC and starring in OHL. Also, RD Paquet who had a solid rookie season in the NCAA. Add top three AHL prospects, RW Kostitsyn, RW Milroy, RC Lapierre. Top AHL defenseman Biron is also right shot. The only left side prospects are Chipchura and Ben Maxwell, along with the Russian defensemen Emelin and Valentenko. Of their last 13 draft picks, 10 play the right side.

[dark_faerie87]

I won't debate the opinion points, but to say that the Habs will look for right handed shooters seems doubtful. Last year they drafted Ryan White, a RC who is leading the WHL in scoring, along with three RD. In 2005, they drafted RW Latendresse playing well in NHL, RW Mikus best Slovak player at WJC, RC Aubin, playing well in AHL, RW D'Agostini, playing even better in AHL, RW Kostitsyn best Belarussian player in WJC and starring in OHL. Also, RD Paquet who had a solid rookie season in the NCAA. Add top three AHL prospects, RW Kostitsyn, RW Milroy, RC Lapierre. Top AHL defenseman Biron is also right shot. The only left side prospects are Chipchura and Ben Maxwell, along with the Russian defensemen Emelin and Valentenko. Of their last 13 draft picks, 10 play the right side.

Uhhhh. You might want to double-check that.

Latendresse: Left-handed shot.

Kostitsyn: Left-handed shot.

http://www.canadiens.com/eng/team/redirect...=habsRoster.cfm

[bobby]

Uhhhh. You might want to double-check that.

Latendresse: Left-handed shot.

Kostitsyn: Left-handed shot.

http://www.canadiens.com/eng/team/redirect...=habsRoster.cfm

Both Latendresse and Kostitsyn prefer to play RW, even though they shoot left. Both were drafted as RW. I didn't say they were all right handed shooters, just that they play the right side.

[dark_faerie87]

Both Latendresse and Kostitsyn prefer to play RW, even though they shoot left. Both were drafted as RW. I didn't say they were all right handed shooters, just that they play the right side.

Riiiiiight!

I won't debate the opinion points, but to say that the Habs will look for right handed shooters seems doubtful. Last year they drafted Ryan White, a RC who is leading the WHL in scoring, along with three RD. In 2005, they drafted RW Latendresse playing well in NHL, RW Mikus best Slovak player at WJC, RC Aubin, playing well in AHL, RW D'Agostini, playing even better in AHL, RW Kostitsyn best Belarussian player in WJC and starring in OHL. Also, RD Paquet who had a solid rookie season in the NCAA. Add top three AHL prospects, RW Kostitsyn, RW Milroy, RC Lapierre. Top AHL defenseman Biron is also right shot. The only left side prospects are Chipchura and Ben Maxwell, along with the Russian defensemen Emelin and Valentenko. Of their last 13 draft picks, 10 play the right side.

[CerebusClone]

I think the reason they traded down from #16 last year is that they got such a good offer for their pick. I don't think it had that much to do with who was on the board. They may have thought that Wishart would slip down a few more spots, or that Mark Mitera would still be there. I don't think that they were targeting Fischer necessarily (though you won't ever get them to admit that), but the offer of the Sharks second round pick was too good to pass up. As it turns out, the guy they got with the second round pick, Mathieu Carle, may well turn out to be the better defenseman. Based on early results, Mathieu looks like a first round talent, and Fischer looks like a second rounder at best.

And that's based on what? Carle is an offensive defenseman playing in the high-scoring Q, on a high-scoring team that has a lethal powerplay (to which he contributes of course), therefore I would only hope that his stats on paper look that good. However, what about his overall play and the fact that many are saying he needs quite a bit of work on his own end? So far, that makes him a potential powerplay specialist, and these unidimentional players are rarely fist round material.

On the other end, Fischer is adapting to a new level (NCAA vs High School) while playing a much smaller role on a very strong defensive squad. Just look at Nigel Williams, another defenseman selected in the 2nd round, who couldn't even crack Wisconsin's roster in the NCAA , but now has 12 goals and 21 points in 19 games n the OHL. If Fischer was to play for the London Knights starting tomorrow, I would also expect him to show some great offensive numbers.

These guys play in completely different contexts, and as somebodu else mentionned, it is far too soon to evaluate the Habs selections at the previous draft. However, considering Timmins/Savard's track records, and looking at how well other selections like Maxwell, White, and even Valatenko (very good performance at the WJC) are doing, I would tend to trust them on this one.

Edited January 8, 2007 by CerebusClone

[bobby]

And that's based on what? Carle is an offensive defenseman playing in the high-scoring Q, on a high-scoring team that has a lethal powerplay (to which he contributes of course), therefore I would only hope that his stats on paper look that good. However, what about his overall play and the fact that many are saying he needs quite a bit of work on his own end? So far, that makes him a potential powerplay specialist, and these unidimentional players are rarely fist round material.

On the other end, Fischer is adapting to a new level (NCAA vs High School) while playing a much smaller role on a very strong defensive squad. Just look at Nigel Williams, another defenseman selected in the 2nd round, who couldn't even crack Wisconsin's roster in the NCAA , but now has 12 goals and 21 points in 19 games n the OHL. If Fischer was to play for the London Knights starting tomorrow, I would also expect him to show some great offensive numbers.

These guys play in completely different contexts, and as somebodu else mentionned, it is far too soon to evaluate the Habs selections at the previous draft. However, considering Timmins/Savard's track records, and looking at how well other selections like Maxwell, White, and even Valatenko (very good performance at the WJC) are doing, I would tend to trust them on this one.

Well, I did say it was based on EARLY results. But Montreal has a history of getting their best player out of a draft in the second round or later. They have a really dismal record overall with their first round picks, but tend to make up for it with later round steals. Mathieu Carle is on track to win the CHL Top Defenseman award. David Fischer is the #6 defenseman on the Gophers. That, only because Nate Hagemo is gone for the year. I'll be the first to admit that things can change quickly as far a prospects are concerned, but at THIS TIME, Carle definitely looks to be the better prospect. For that matter Pavel Valentenko looks better as well, by virtue of playing top 4 in the RSL, which is considerably more competitive than the NCAA, and excelling at the WJC.

[CerebusClone]

Well, I did say it was based on EARLY results. But Montreal has a history of getting their best player out of a draft in the second round or later. They have a really dismal record overall with their first round picks, but tend to make up for it with later round steals. Mathieu Carle is on track to win the CHL Top Defenseman award. David Fischer is the #6 defenseman on the Gophers. That, only because Nate Hagemo is gone for the year. I'll be the first to admit that things can change quickly as far a prospects are concerned, but at THIS TIME, Carle definitely looks to be the better prospect. For that matter Pavel Valentenko looks better as well, by virtue of playing top 4 in the RSL, which is considerably more competitive than the NCAA, and excelling at the WJC.

Again, it's almost impossble to compare Fischer and Carle at this moment because the NCAA and the Q are completely different leagues. Statistically, Carle wouln't do nearly as well in the NCAA (especially not as a freshman for a team like the Gophers) while Fischer would do a lot better in the CHL.

Anyway, these are some good defensive prospects, which we really lacked before this summer. Add to that Emelin, Valentenko, and O'Byrne, and we've now good some decent depth at that position for the future. If we can manage to keep Markov and Komisarek for a few years, we should have a good defensive squad.

[Easy Ryder]

I think think this year is a lot like last year except the fact that nobody outshines.

It would be a good year to deal a first rounder in a package.

In the LHJMQ(Québec) if Esposito is the main deal he does not impress me at all.

Anyway we have some depht long term.

[montreal]

Well, I did say it was based on EARLY results. But Montreal has a history of getting their best player out of a draft in the second round or later. They have a really dismal record overall with their first round picks, but tend to make up for it with later round steals. Mathieu Carle is on track to win the CHL Top Defenseman award. David Fischer is the #6 defenseman on the Gophers. That, only because Nate Hagemo is gone for the year. I'll be the first to admit that things can change quickly as far a prospects are concerned, but at THIS TIME, Carle definitely looks to be the better prospect. For that matter Pavel Valentenko looks better as well, by virtue of playing top 4 in the RSL, which is considerably more competitive than the NCAA, and excelling at the WJC.

Komisarek, Perezhogin, Higgins all 1st rounders with Kostitsyn, Chipchura and Price all likely seeing NHL action within a couple years. Fischer has been very solid in the NCAA in the defensive zone. He plays smart and has bulked up a little bit so that helps him along the boards. His best asset is likely his passing, he can really move the puck well. The problem has been offensivley he's done nothing. Right now he plays it very safe, often just dumping the puck or passing it, he almost never shoots the puck. He also never gets PP time until the past 2 games due to Eric Johnson playing at the wjc's. If Johnson turns pro next year then Fischer will move up into the top 4 and should have a spot on the 2nd PP unit. He seems to think like a forward a little, so I think he will be able to produce offensively, as it's a big jump to go from USHS to NCAA.

Pavel Valentenko is not a top 4 defensemen, he plays on the 3rd pairing and at times 4th pairing. (RSL teams dress 8 defensemen) Also of note, Carle and Valentenko are 19 while Fischer is 18. This is why Carle will be in the AHL next year since he will be 20, so he's had added development time.

[bobby]

Komisarek, Perezhogin, Higgins all 1st rounders with Kostitsyn, Chipchura and Price all likely seeing NHL action within a couple years. Fischer has been very solid in the NCAA in the defensive zone. He plays smart and has bulked up a little bit so that helps him along the boards. His best asset is likely his passing, he can really move the puck well. The problem has been offensivley he's done nothing. Right now he plays it very safe, often just dumping the puck or passing it, he almost never shoots the puck. He also never gets PP time until the past 2 games due to Eric Johnson playing at the wjc's. If Johnson turns pro next year then Fischer will move up into the top 4 and should have a spot on the 2nd PP unit. He seems to think like a forward a little, so I think he will be able to produce offensively, as it's a big jump to go from USHS to NCAA.

Pavel Valentenko is not a top 4 defensemen, he plays on the 3rd pairing and at times 4th pairing. (RSL teams dress 8 defensemen) Also of note, Carle and Valentenko are 19 while Fischer is 18. This is why Carle will be in the AHL next year since he will be 20, so he's had added development time.

Habs have done better lately with their first round picks, but historically they have sucked. Even in the last few years, you can make the case that Plekanec (3rd round) is as good or better than Perezhogin, Lapierre (2nd round) and Halak (9th round) are as good or better than Kostitsyn, Emelin (3rd round) is as good or better than Chipchura, Latendresse (2nd round) as good or better than Price. I'm not saying that Fischer is a writeoff or anything, just that to this point (in my eyes) Carle and Valentenko look like better prospects. The age difference is minimal, Mathieu and Pavel are just a few months older than Fischer, but the competitive experience gap is huge. U.S. high school hockey is probably the equivalent of Midget AA in Canada. If you watched Brian Lee (Minnesota high school star, 2005 Mr Hockey winner, lanky "project" defenseman, etc. etc.) at the WJC would you take him ahead of Valentenko? I certainly wouldn't. Lee was rated a lot higher than Fischer, drafted higher, and scored 23 points as a WCHA freshman last season. By any objective consideration, Fischer is a poor man's Brian Lee. Blake Wheeler, Brian Lee, (or J.T. Wyman for the Habs) make me think that Minnesota high schoolers have been overrated the past few years.

[bobby]

If they were bound to draft a high school project, they would have done better to trade down again and take Carl Sneep out of Brainerd. That was the player who interested me at the time, although I didn't think he would go as high as he did. But Sneep looked to be at least as promising a project as Fischer.

[montreal]

Habs have done better lately with their first round picks, but historically they have sucked. Even in the last few years, you can make the case that Plekanec (3rd round) is as good or better than Perezhogin, Lapierre (2nd round) and Halak (9th round) are as good or better than Kostitsyn, Emelin (3rd round) is as good or better than Chipchura, Latendresse (2nd round) as good or better than Price. I'm not saying that Fischer is a writeoff or anything, just that to this point (in my eyes) Carle and Valentenko look like better prospects. The age difference is minimal, Mathieu and Pavel are just a few months older than Fischer, but the competitive experience gap is huge. U.S. high school hockey is probably the equivalent of Midget AA in Canada. If you watched Brian Lee (Minnesota high school star, 2005 Mr Hockey winner, lanky "project" defenseman, etc. etc.) at the WJC would you take him ahead of Valentenko? I certainly wouldn't. Lee was rated a lot higher than Fischer, drafted higher, and scored 23 points as a WCHA freshman last season. By any objective consideration, Fischer is a poor man's Brian Lee. Blake Wheeler, Brian Lee, (or J.T. Wyman for the Habs) make me think that Minnesota high schoolers have been overrated the past few years.

Just because you find players later in the draft, doesn't mean you are doing a bad job with your 1st round picks. Yes in past we were brutal at the draft table, not just with 1st rounders but overall the '90's were ugly at the draft table. I think people put way too much stock into where a player is drafted. Good players are found in every round. I think the Habs are very happy with how the 1st round picks have done since Andre Savard came on board along with Trevor Timmins.

As for Lee and Valentenko, I would take Lee in a heartbeat, but that's cause I see him play a lot more and don't base it off 1 tournament. Blake Wheeler is good prospect he's enjoying a very good year, I see almost all the Minnesota games this year and he's been solid for sure. How much do you get to see Minnesota High schoolers play? Cause I get to see them play here and there, at the USHS level but more at the NCAA level. Lots of very talented kids in Minnesota. I hope we land one at the draft, Nick Larson from Hill Murray, very talented could go in the 2nd round this summer.

[koivu-11]

Mtl gainey knows we have lots of young guys in the system..we need a center..i really wouldnt be suprised if we lose our first with abby...