alexstream Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Contrarily to popular belief, there are 3 types of teams at the deadline and not only 2. Sellers Buyers The rest Sellers : Clearly out of playoffs, they do not throw the towel, it's already away. Teams who are 2-3 points close to a playoffs spot CANNOT be sellers. Some fans would love them to sell and get the high return. But the large part of the fan base which do not go on the Hockey Message Boards will not understand that move and will panic when they see the team throwing the towel... They'll think about rebuilding and having a team sucking for the next 5 years. So Sellers are usually struggling to win AND are more then 10 pts out of a playoffs spot. Buyers : They are SOLIDLY anchored into a playoffs spot OR into the playoffs race but on a STRONG winning sequence. The important thing is that they are winning and that it looks to be worth it to go out and PAY to improve a winning team. Teams who are in a playoffs race but are inside looking out... and are struggling to win cannot be Buyers. Players for sale are rental players and are quite expensive. If you wanna be a buyer you gotta have hopes to succeed and to have hopes to succeed you gotta be WINNING... to make it worth it to spend. Otherwise, keep you asset and trade in the offseason to make a better run next year. The Rest: Not low enough in the rankings to throw the towel. Not winning enough to make it worth it to spend. They are in between the two status. The better thing they can do is STAND STILL and hope that their team will gel and have a good playoffs run. That's Habs state right now. If BG was to Sell Souray right now (and I'd believe, just like some of you guys, that it'd be the thing to do) he'd kill minimum 1/3 of the fanbase... and would make it really hard to sell season tickets in the offseason... That'd be a really bad marketing move... That's sad but true. If you want us to be a seller, you better get your hopes that we will lose ALL the games up to the 27th and that teams around us will win it all... Making it easier to sell the "selling mode" to the "ignorant" fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Yes, what he said. Right on the freakin' money. Just like the Leafs (for those who need a good comparison), the Habs have some dumb fans out there and these guys will be calling for Gainey's head if he stands pat. If anything, this article makes a solid point of the fan situation... (posted on the front page of the site --> Gainey not to blame for Habs' plunge) http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...50-4b80ddeca668 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycing Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Yes, what he said. Right on the freakin' money. Just like the Leafs (for those who need a good comparison), the Habs have some dumb fans out there and these guys will be calling for Gainey's head if he stands pat. If anything, this article makes a solid point of the fan situation... (posted on the front page of the site --> Gainey not to blame for Habs' plunge) http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...50-4b80ddeca668 Love Jack Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 I would love Habs to be in selling mode, but I just think they cannot throw the towel before feb 27th... so don't expect anything before then... and even then, if we are still close to 8th spot, we likely won't move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House11 Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Great post alex although I'd like to see them be sellers. Alot of the fan base would not want to see that. Hopefully BG can find a happy medium .. trade some guys away and aquired replacments ... example . Sammy , Ryder ... send them off .. get what you can then aquire some guys for a playoff run. It looks like that would be the only way to keep everyone happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Contrarily to popular belief, there are 3 types of teams at the deadline and not only 2. Sellers Buyers The rest Sellers : Clearly out of playoffs, they do not throw the towel, it's already away. Teams who are 2-3 points close to a playoffs spot CANNOT be sellers. Some fans would love them to sell and get the high return. But the large part of the fan base which do not go on the Hockey Message Boards will not understand that move and will panic when they see the team throwing the towel... They'll think about rebuilding and having a team sucking for the next 5 years. So Sellers are usually struggling to win AND are more then 10 pts out of a playoffs spot. Buyers : They are SOLIDLY anchored into a playoffs spot OR into the playoffs race but on a STRONG winning sequence. The important thing is that they are winning and that it looks to be worth it to go out and PAY to improve a winning team. Teams who are in a playoffs race but are inside looking out... and are struggling to win cannot be Buyers. Players for sale are rental players and are quite expensive. If you wanna be a buyer you gotta have hopes to succeed and to have hopes to succeed you gotta be WINNING... to make it worth it to spend. Otherwise, keep you asset and trade in the offseason to make a better run next year. The Rest: Not low enough in the rankings to throw the towel. Not winning enough to make it worth it to spend. They are in between the two status. The better thing they can do is STAND STILL and hope that their team will gel and have a good playoffs run. That's Habs state right now. If BG was to Sell Souray right now (and I'd believe, just like some of you guys, that it'd be the thing to do) he'd kill minimum 1/3 of the fanbase... and would make it really hard to sell season tickets in the offseason... That'd be a really bad marketing move... That's sad but true. If you want us to be a seller, you better get your hopes that we will lose ALL the games up to the 27th and that teams around us will win it all... Making it easier to sell the "selling mode" to the "ignorant" fan base. the sad thing is the habs mgmt can drive this team to the ground and still maintain the fan base. I'm still a fan despite the grundman years, despite houle/trembley and ronald corey. the habs aren't nashville or anaheim that if the team is not doing well the'll lose their fanbase. I think that Gainey needs to cut his losses with the current core and start to build a contender for next year. souray is his most tradeable asset. In my opinion (as a nobody fan) if gainey doens't move Souray AND can't sign him for a reasonable contract by the deadline, he should be fired for stupidity beyond redemption. And i say this despite having a ton of respect for Gainey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Yeah, I don't see losing Souray as having too negative of an affect for the off-season marketing strategy. Honestly, nothing says they can't deal him AND try to sign him back in the off-season. At least that would show fans that they're trying to improve the organization overall. I would deal Souray for the best prospect and draft pick combination you can...regardless of prospect position. I'd deal Sammy, Rivet, possibly Ryder, Bonk and Aebischer... a Sammy, Rivet and Aebischer type deal for a d-man and some more draft pick(s). Ryder, Bonk and a prospect/pick for the best 2nd line C we can acquire who is signed beyond this season. Of course, you have to find the right trade partner...lol B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 It is delusional to think that we have a chance for a serious Cup run. I'm sure Gainey knows that, but fear that his competitive nature will drive him to think in terms of strenthening us for the stretch drive rather than doing what IMHO needs to be done - namely, moving current UFA assets, such as Souray and Rivet, for players who will strengthen our core for the future. Rumours such as those concerning P.M. Bouchard and Mike Cammalleri - bona fide young talent and centremen to boot - are the ones that give me hope. Other rumours, such as those surrounding Forsberg, Guerin, etc., leave me in cold sweats. The coming week, and this year's off-season, may prove to be among the most important in Habs' history. They will set the tone for whether the current 'rebuilding' period ever materializes into a championship-calibre team...or whether we will remain a mediocre team, spinning our wheels, for at least the next 5-6 years. Fingers crossed! I'm just dying for deadline day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 The problem is that this rebuild was not supposed to be for a Cup run this season. I think the great start turned some of our minds to mush and we hoped we were ahead of schedule. I think Gainey knows that this team does not have what it takes to win the Cup this season, but the improbable runs of the Flames and Oilers have fans believing...why not us? What do you think helps the Leaf fans sleep at night, maybe we can go on a miracle run to the Finals. Can it happen? yes. Will it happen? Probably not. Gainey is a patient man, he knows what the goal is, and the goal is the Stanley Cup. If somebody calls him up and offers him a package that he feels will put us closer to a Cup than he will make the move. If he can unload a prospect that his scouting staff has identified as an average NHLer he will try to strenghten us. I don't think any of our stud prospects are going anywhere. We could have had Forsberg, but would you have paid the price of Ryder/Emelin and a 1st and 3rd rounder for possibly 2 months of service? This is not about the next 6 weeks, the Leafs thought they won the Cup when they picked up Owen Nolan for Alyn McCauley/Brad Boyes and the pick that turned into Steve Bernier. All that got them was a first round exit. Think long term guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Haha I believe in this team, everyone is so jaded, cheer up! If the fans can't get behind a team no wonder they're struggling...you guys all depress me so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 The problem is that this rebuild was not supposed to be for a Cup run this season. I think the great start turned some of our minds to mush and we hoped we were ahead of schedule. I think Gainey knows that this team does not have what it takes to win the Cup this season, but the improbable runs of the Flames and Oilers have fans believing...why not us? What do you think helps the Leaf fans sleep at night, maybe we can go on a miracle run to the Finals. Can it happen? yes. Will it happen? Probably not. Gainey is a patient man, he knows what the goal is, and the goal is the Stanley Cup. If somebody calls him up and offers him a package that he feels will put us closer to a Cup than he will make the move. If he can unload a prospect that his scouting staff has identified as an average NHLer he will try to strenghten us. I don't think any of our stud prospects are going anywhere. We could have had Forsberg, but would you have paid the price of Ryder/Emelin and a 1st and 3rd rounder for possibly 2 months of service? This is not about the next 6 weeks, the Leafs thought they won the Cup when they picked up Owen Nolan for Alyn McCauley/Brad Boyes and the pick that turned into Steve Bernier. All that got them was a first round exit. Think long term guys BINGO.... :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I don't think anyone would deny that this team needs to think long term. However, with so much young talent in the organization I think it's also a fair assesment to say that we could use some of that talent to acquire a legitimate big game threat...one that is locked up. In December I was advocating acquiring a rental but this teams ultimate collapse has admittedly changed my tune a little...but only in saying that we should acquire a guy who is signed longer then this year. With: Chipchura, Kostsytsin 1 and 2, Price, Halak, Danis, Latendresse, Plekanec, Higgins, Milroy, Fischer, Maxwell, Lapierre, Emelin, O'Byrne and Carle this team has LOADS of young players that project as NHL talent...many of them are NHL ready, or will be within the next 1.5 years. I'll even admit that only a few of them are blue chip guys but most project as 2nd to 3rd liners. How many prospects do you need??? This doesn't even include some of our veteran talent that we could move to acquire other veteran pieces that are signed beyond this season. Samsonov, Rivet, Souray, Bonk, Aebischer should all be dealt. Only dealing the d-men could hurt us this season if we didn't get any back in return...but with rumours like Sammy and Rivet for Aucoin it's possible to get better NOW and next year...and that wouldn't even cost us any of our "prized" youth. It's too easy for fans to get locked into the prospects. We need to concentrate on keeping our top 5-6 prospects. After that we have plenty of quality prospects that still project well and have value. I definitely think we can deal them with some of our veteran players, and/or UFA's to be, for a legitimate 1st or 2nd line C and a top 4 d-man. Then we only need 1 good signing and a little more development of prospects(Higgins, Plekanec, Kosty and Lats) to be a scary team next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I agree. We've stockpiled prospects and now it's time to start dishing them out for assets (the second-tier ones, atleast). It would also be a good idea to unload Souray because he's our pending UFA with the most trade value. I'm not sure trading a guy like Bonk will get us enough to make it attractive. Rivet is another story because he may very well attempt to come back here. You didn't even add guys like Sergei Kostitsyn, Matthew D'Agostino, Juraj Mikus, Mathieu Aubin or Ryan White who are all have a legitimate shot at NHL action. Then there are the lower-tier guys like Jonathan Ferland, Corey Locke and I would say Milroy as well who the years are starting to run out for. Of course, the ideal situation is to sell at the deadline and STILL grab a bottom playoff spot but that would take a bit of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I agree. We've stockpiled prospects and now it's time to start dishing them out for assets (the second-tier ones, atleast). It would also be a good idea to unload Souray because he's our pending UFA with the most trade value. I'm not sure trading a guy like Bonk will get us enough to make it attractive. Rivet is another story because he may very well attempt to come back here. You didn't even add guys like Sergei Kostitsyn, Matthew D'Agostino, Juraj Mikus, Mathieu Aubin or Ryan White who are all have a legitimate shot at NHL action. Then there are the lower-tier guys like Jonathan Ferland, Corey Locke and I would say Milroy as well who the years are starting to run out for. Of course, the ideal situation is to sell at the deadline and STILL grab a bottom playoff spot but that would take a bit of luck. The problem in addressing these things on the board is that most fans overrate their hometown prospects. And for every Josef Balej that was once a top 5 prospect is forgotten, a Darcy Tucker or Tomas Vokoun are remembered. We have a ton of top prospects and the minute we make a deal I guarantee you wether it is Davd Fischer or Alexei Emelin people will be screaming we cannot trade our youth!! We have to place trust in the guys who scouted these guys for 5 years and continue to watch them then the fact we watched an OHL game once and Corey Locke was the best player on the ice and Hockeys Futures said he was going to be good. We do have to start turning these guys into NHL talent, Guys liike Mikus/White/Danis are the difference between completing a big deal and missing out on one. Gainey is patient, he pulled Kovalev out of his ass, he pulled Bonk and Huet out of his ass. Where are all the Garon is going to be a superstar protests now? Gainey inherited a mess, Andre Savard left him with some solid prospects and the heat is just beginning to get turned up on Bob. The next year is going to go along way in determining if we can make the leap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Hey, I agree that Bonk and Samsonov have little value. However, Sammy has had a good career and is relatively inexpensive and may garner some decent attention as a throw in when off-setting salary costs...and Bonk's value stems also from being an off-set to meet the salary cap in any deal, is expiring and he is still a decent 3rd line C too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 They're very good players but their numbers don't match well with their salaries. If you're talking about upgrading them, that's another story. But if dumping them for picks and youth, you really won't get much for an overpaid struggling rental. That's why I said a guy like Bonk has more value to us than whatever he'd fetch us in a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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