Zowpeb Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 If we intend on making the playoffs should we have acquired Biron? It took a 2nd round pick...and we probably could have given them a middle round pick and a guy like Danis instead since they went and picked up Conklin. We'd have Biron and Huet going into the play-offs and that would at least give the team a better shot then Huet and Aebischer. I really don't like the lack of action. This team IS NOT going to go deep in the playoffs let alone win the Cup. So either you bolster the team by trading from our plethora of young talent...OR...you trade your pending UFA's to acquire even better/more young talent. We basically accomplished neither...yeah, I think the Rivet deal was a no-brainer and we hosed SJ on that deal but there was an incredible lack of direction at this deadline. Either trade Souray for the equivalent of high picks and decent prospects, as was the going rate. OR, acquire a guy like Smyth and a d-man like Norstrom or Aucoin. To do neither means we MAY scrape into the playoffs and make a couple bucks for Mr. Gillette...but nothing more. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this next comment BUT Gainey barely accomplished more then John Ferguson Jr. and the Toronto Maple Leafs. We were only marginally better thanks to the lop-sided Rivet deal IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 If we intend on making the playoffs should we have acquired Biron? It took a 2nd round pick...and we probably could have given them a middle round pick and a guy like Danis instead since they went and picked up Conklin. We'd have Biron and Huet going into the play-offs and that would at least give the team a better shot then Huet and Aebischer. Not that it matters now but do you really think Buffalo would have traded to a team that they could end up facing in the playoffs? Probably not, and that is why Biron went to a team with no hope to make it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 Not that it matters now but do you really think Buffalo would have traded to a team that they could end up facing in the playoffs? Probably not, and that is why Biron went to a team with no hope to make it at all. I did think about this and what you say may be very true...my real concern is the general lack of direction we appear to have had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House11 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 why acquire a goalie ? we have one in Abby ... if Carbo would just give him a chance to play a few games in a row and not once a week he might be able to get out of the funk he's in ... of course the team needs to play better in front of him as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 (edited) Everybody here(meaning on this forum - not just on this thread) seems to know more than Gainey and Carbonneau put together!!!!! My god, why don't you all just write a letter of application to George Gillette and give him your resumes? After reading all of your posts I'm sure he'd hire any one of you in a minute..... SERIOUSLY - :puke: :puke: :puke: :?- :?- :?- i.e. Gainey's useless, knows nothing, does nothing, missed the boat, blew that one, etc, etc etc and, Carbonneau can't coach, benches the wrong guy, has the wrong lines, can't motivate anyone, etc, etc, etc Edited February 28, 2007 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Everybody here seems to know more than Gainey and Carbonneau put together!!!!! My god, why don't you all just write a letter of application to George Gillette and give him your resumes? After reading all of your posts I'm sure he'd hire any one of you in a minute..... SERIOUSLY - :puke: :puke: :puke: :?- :?- :?- i.e. Gainey's useless, knows nothing, does nothing, missed the boat, blew that one, etc, etc etc and, Carbonneau can't coach, benches the wrong guy, has the wrong lines, can't motivate anyone, etc, etc, etc I said nothing of the sort so could you please be more specific with your criticisms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 (edited) I said nothing of the sort so could you please be more specific with your criticisms. I never quoted you directly - my response is to a myriad of posts that have been done here & in other threads that have basically claimed they seem to know all about the NHL, and what Habs management should have done! It was directed at a non stop stream of negative criticism that has become ridiculous, as no one here has an inside role in an NHL office as far as I know? p.s. if I wanted to be specific it would have taken a long time to copy and paste them all in exact detail = therefore I was less specific? Edited February 28, 2007 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Everybody here seems to know more than Gainey and Carbonneau put together!!!!! My god, why don't you all just write a letter of application to George Gillette and give him your resumes? I assumed by this you meant everyone in this thread. Not a big deal, just didn't want to be grouped in with a certain variety of fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 (edited) I assumed by this you meant everyone in this thread. Not a big deal, just didn't want to be grouped in with a certain variety of fans. That's okay - sorry as I should have been a bit clearer? (unfortunately I picked this thread to post that comment which I will now edit to reflect this ) It just steams me that people think they know more about the NHL than Gainey, and especially when they make such misinformed comments about it. Edited February 28, 2007 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Should have picked up...? NO ONE! The goaltender was a safe depth move. It didn't cost us our future. GO :hlogo: GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBHabs_fan Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Should have picked up...? NO ONE! The goaltender was a safe depth move. It didn't cost us our future. GO :hlogo: GO! Future, Schmuture... Our future is now...If we are not a contender now, we wont be in 3-5 years....Koivu, Kovy, Souray, Markov, etc. will be older. Our group of young guys will be a better core? Do we know this?? Gotta go for it sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Future, Schmuture... Our future is now...If we are not a contender now, we wont be in 3-5 years....Koivu, Kovy, Souray, Markov, etc. will be older. Our group of young guys will be a better core? Do we know this?? Gotta go for it sometimes hmmmm... i wonder how ottawa & buffalo became as strong as they are... good drafting and patience... i prefer this to perennial mediocrity... GO :hlogo: GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I did think about this and what you say may be very true...my real concern is the general lack of direction we appear to have had. we have a direction we got a first round pick. We have 2 first round picks now. Can't get any better then that. Listen this team didn't warrant a sell the farm for a playoff rental. That would be poor planning of the team by Gainey. This team is a playoff team they just need to find themselves again. But hey the world doesn't end after this season there will be another year so you've got to be ready for that year as well. This team stars are old. Why trade young kids for more old folks nearing pension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I agree but they could have moved Souray and got a 3rd first round pick and another young prospect. I agree but they could have moved Souray and got a 3rd first round pick and another young prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBHabs_fan Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 hmmmm... i wonder how ottawa & buffalo became as strong as they are... good drafting and patience... i prefer this to perennial mediocrity... GO :hlogo: GO! Perennial mediocrity? That should be the nickname for our team!! Which team have you been watching since 93?? The one I've been cheering for has been perennially mediocre at best. We have been patient, as you say, for a long time. Ottawa and Buffalo developed some talent, yes. But they also traded or signed some of their best...Don't even get me started on some of the teams in the West.. If we lose Souray (for nothing), sign our other free agents to raised contracts, and dont sign another SIGNIFICANT UFA, we will continue to be mediocre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 The difference is now there is light at the end of the tunnel. The Habs have good prospects, just got a good young D man, Will have 2 top 25 picks, the young goaltending looks great. So they are about 1 more year from turning the corner. Know one will know if the Souray non-trade will be a factor until next year. So yes the corner will turn probably after next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 That's okay - sorry as I should have been a bit clearer? (unfortunately I picked this thread to post that comment which I will now edit to reflect this ) It just steams me that people think they know more about the NHL than Gainey, and especially when they make such misinformed comments about it. Beliveau1...the entire point of a message based forum, like this one, is to voice these types of opinions. Gainey obviously knows far more then anyone here when it comes to hockey. What I love about being a Habs fan is that we will always voice our displeasure at mediocre moves, non-moves, efforts, etc. I don't want to be a homer Leaf-style fan who thinks everything they do is the best thing ever. If this team is borderline for the playoffs, and certainly won't go deep if it makes it, then WHY are we sitting on UFA players. Players that likely won't re-sign. WHY should fans be happy that we have a valuable asset in Souray that will not help us anymore this year and will leave for NOTHING in the off-season? I could live with 2 months of young call-ups, and relatively mediocre hockey, if it meant we got something for our assets. Instead we're going to be an 8th-10th seed, probably lose Souray for nothing and we could have at least been an 8th-10th seed and used Souray to acquire a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick and a prospect. Hell, Ryan Smith just basically netted an equivalent package and that was a quickly run deal without Edmonton running a real bidding war, and I think Souray probably held more value to many teams. According to you we should just be happy because Gainey knows all. Hey, maybe there wasn't much interest in Souray, maybe he's already got a verbal from Souray that he'd like to re-sign, maybe a lot of things...but we still should be questioning this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 The difference is now there is light at the end of the tunnel. The Habs have good prospects, just got a good young D man, Will have 2 top 25 picks, the young goaltending looks great. So they are about 1 more year from turning the corner. Know one will know if the Souray non-trade will be a factor until next year. So yes the corner will turn probably after next year. Yes, but we could have had 3 top 25 picks, an extra 2nd to 4th rounder and another NHL ready prospect to add to the mix if we would have dealt Souray. The more I think about our lack of movement the more annoyed I am...I don't care if it was to make a run this year or for the future...just something to move things, assuredly, in one direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 There IS direction. The direction - clearly, and Bob keeps saying as much - is to develop from within through good drafting. Does that mean Souray should have been traded for youth? I think so, but NOT if Gainey honestly thinks he'll be able to re-sign Souray. Souray is 30 and presumably has a few more good years in the tank. He is a reasonable investment for a team that plans to ice a contender by, say, 2009. You don't get to be a contender by jettisoning youth to make a futile playoff run with a medicore team, true. But you also don't get to be a contender by ditching every single UFA in your organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 That "2nd round pick" that was traded for Martin Biron was the Flyers which will be the #31 pick overall. Which means that in order to make a better offer the Habs would have had to send a first round pick. Biron is O.K., but I don't think he is a significant upgrade on Huet or Aebischer. There is no indication that the Sabres would have been interested in Yann Danis. The waiver wire is full of players like Danis. The only difference between Danis and Michael Leighton, who the Habs got off waivers, is that Leighton has more NHL experience, and a better record in the AHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 No way Buffalo deals Biron in the same division. Especially to Montreal when they are sitting around the 8th spot, and Buffalo is 1st. Besides they probably could have had Belfour or Joseph cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Beliveau1...the entire point of a message based forum, like this one, is to voice these types of opinions. Gainey obviously knows far more then anyone here when it comes to hockey. What I love about being a Habs fan is that we will always voice our displeasure at mediocre moves, non-moves, efforts, etc. I don't want to be a homer Leaf-style fan who thinks everything they do is the best thing ever. If this team is borderline for the playoffs, and certainly won't go deep if it makes it, then WHY are we sitting on UFA players. Players that likely won't re-sign. WHY should fans be happy that we have a valuable asset in Souray that will not help us anymore this year and will leave for NOTHING in the off-season? I could live with 2 months of young call-ups, and relatively mediocre hockey, if it meant we got something for our assets. Instead we're going to be an 8th-10th seed, probably lose Souray for nothing and we could have at least been an 8th-10th seed and used Souray to acquire a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick and a prospect. Hell, Ryan Smith just basically netted an equivalent package and that was a quickly run deal without Edmonton running a real bidding war, and I think Souray probably held more value to many teams. According to you we should just be happy because Gainey knows all. Hey, maybe there wasn't much interest in Souray, maybe he's already got a verbal from Souray that he'd like to re-sign, maybe a lot of things...but we still should be questioning this. I know exactly what this forum is for - talking..... I'm not opposed to that at all. My beef is with the absolute negativity that this forum has slowly evolved into over time! Should we accept mediocrity - no. Never have suggested that once on this forum in all the time I've been here & never will. After all, I'm a Habs fan.... Never have claimed that Gainey knows all - please find evidence of that accusation? Habs fans aren't the only ones who discuss the moves their team makes = we aren't unique! Not once have I said this year that I believe that this team is a bonafide contender. In fact from the word go I've said we are not. We are at this point in the schedule right where I expected them to be - fighting desperately for a playoff spot. I said on several occasions that if Gainey can get a sweet deal for Souray then great. I was hoping to some degree that he could milk it for all he could get in return if a deal was there. I am not a homer fan who thinks everything is fine no matter what - don't even think of lumping me into the group of pathetic fans that are called Leaf Nation..... :nono: :puke: :nono: I think debate is healthy - that wondering if a deal could have been made or not is a part of this process. However there is a difference between healthy, intelligent debate which some here continuously contribute, and some of the nonsense that seems to arise on many occasions? It includes those posts that make claims to the effect that suggest a person has more insight or knowledge than the current management. Few if any here have inside access to what Bob Gainey was trying to do in order to better this team. If they think he was doing nothing and voice it here they are misled or vain. Gainey is a man who does not expect to under achieve. He played for this team in the glory years and expects to win, not finish last! He knows what this team lacks as well as any other manager out there. And he knows better than many of them, what it takes to play/win in this league. If they think he did not try to get a goalie or strengthen this team in any way possible then they aren't being realistic. If a deal had presented itself that meant an improvement for now and the future, I'm sure he would have accepted it. Unfortunately the biggest stumbling block to all of this speculation is the simple fact that he has to have a partner who is willing to deal. We all know that rumours existed as to a Souray deal -- however the buyers were limited? One of the so called suitors ended up unloading their high priced UFA's, another wanted a right handed defenceman(i.e. Rivet) all along, and why can't people understand that Brian Burke time and again made it clear he wasn't paying the going price for a rental! As fans we'll never know for sure how close he may have come to making a deal, be it for a goalie, for Souray or any other talent available? My beef is with those who insist they know more, and ridicule a seasoned GM for things they can only speculate upon; not with those who debate the matter in a logical & rational manner! I appreciate reading posts that are solid critiques and not unfounded, negatively oriented rants. On the other side of the coin, there are others that just don't think before they rattle off.... Add to that the fact that many of the same people who are screaming about this teams lack of offense, and how it is hurting their supposed Cup chances(?) are suggesting the Habs unload their best offensive weapon so far this season. Talk about contradicting positions? That is why I said what I said - whether you agree with me or not is your choice. You have to admit that there has been some extreme negativism expressed here lately that has not been based in reality at times and I was addressing that type of comment. Not good debates on the only sports team I really follow - the rest are just unnecessary distractions! :ghg: :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathieu30 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I know exactly what this forum is for - talking..... I'm not opposed to that at all. My beef is with the absolute negativity that this forum has slowly evolved into over time! .. That is why I said what I said - whether you agree with me or not is your choice. You have to admit that there has been some extreme negativism expressed here lately that has not been based in reality at times and I was addressing that type of comment. Not good debates on the only sports team I really follow - the rest are just unnecessary distractions! Thanks for expressing my very thought. I couldn’t have said it any better myself (maybe in french ) Well Said, merci. :hlogo: :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 (edited) Thanks for expressing my very thought. I couldn’t have said it any better myself (maybe in french ) Well Said, merci. :hlogo: :hlogo: no problem - my French version would have been a post worth ignoring I love this site and the good debate that it allows me to have with fellow :hlogo: fans, but some of the negativity and irrational commentary is making me wonder if it is really worth the read at times? Edited February 28, 2007 by beliveau1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 (edited) perennial mediocrity GO :hlogo: GO! We've had plenty of that..... :puke: I'm all for not blowing up the team and sacrificing the future to take a run with a team that obviously isn't a cup contender....BUT....making one move with a first rounder and so-so prospect to get someone that could help now would have been fine by me!!! Edited February 28, 2007 by sbhatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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