What has to be done to win the cup-not just make the playoffs!

[REV-G]

As a long time Canadiens fan I'm not particularly excited over whether they make the playoffs this year or not. The only excitment for me right now lies in the fact that IF they squeak into the playoffs, and IF Huet comes back and gets hot, and IF they can get on a roll, perhaps they can do something in the playoffs. For all of that to happen, is possible, but not likely. But for me the more important point is what the Canadiens have to do to become a contender, to improve this team so they are not average or below average but a Stanley Cup contending team for years to come like they once were and like Detroit, New Jersey and a few other teams have been. I think they have to do their work at the draft and in the off-season. This summer they must sign one or two solid, not necessarily expensive, defencemen. And they must get at least one top three forward like a Daniel Briere, or someone like him. Acquiring two top forwards would be even better. I think they have very good prospects, some who may be on the verge of breaking out into solid players that give you the depth to win every night. But if they stand pat and add a marginal player or take a chance on someone who has underperformed making a comeback, then I think we're in for more of what we've had to live through for the past years. I think this is a crucial summer so we don't become like the Leafs, always hopeful, but never making it. But I believe the Canadiens want to win, not just make the playoffs and not just make money.

[by a hair]

Do give a long term contract to: Micheal "easy wider rolling papers" Ryder, Maxime "screaming eagle" Lapierre, and Andre "4000" Markov. Do NOT give a fat contract to: Sheldon "soft hands" Souray or Sergei "never had a chance" Samsonov... also: maybe they should bury a maeWest under center ice.. Youppi needs to step his game up, he's clearly not giving 100%... Ritual slaying of Jack Todd...

ps. Jaques Demers needs to go back to his old glasses frames, his current frames were designed for space exploring 100 meter sprinters, not for be-jowled broadcasters..

[Chris]

4 new defenseman and 7 new forwards. That would be a good start.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Sigh.

How to become Cup contenders? Speaking seriously:

-the young players HAVE to develop, and everything the organization does, from coaching moves to managerial ones, must be done with this as Priority #1. Carbo has done well with Plekanec and decently with Latendresse. His handling of Perezhogin (who is +11!!!) is incomprehensible, as perhaps, is his weird instant hate-on for Gorges.

-the team needs a system that its players can actually play. You can say, 'blame the players,' but our first line is off the charts in terms of +/- - Koivu has NEVER been anywhere near that bad - and the only players thriving in the current system are role-players like Bonk and Streit (Souray excepted). Obviously something is wrong.

-the organization HAS to have stability. I disagree with much of what Carbonneau's done, but do not agree that he should be fired. Let him grow with the team. Gainey has to stay on, etc.. It all starts at the top and we're NOT going to get a brain-trust with better credentials than what we now have.

-the team HAS to improve at C. People are arguing that Pleks is the new Datsyuk on the grounds that datsyuk also had mediocre offensive numbers at the same age - dubious reasoning. But even if that's true, Koivu will be 33 and we have to start turning the heat off him. Bring in a bona-fide #1 C and let Pleks replace Koivu gradually over the next 2-3 years.

-the team either needs to upgrade at D or at least maintain Souray and Markov. All you Souray-bashers: the issue is NOT whether Souray is a huge asset. The issue is in EXPECTING him to be a great outlet-passer and ace shut-down artist. He is a 'specialist.' And a VERY valuable one. Blaming him because the Habs, with insufficient depth at D, rely on him to play these roles is a classic example of the loser mentality of fans of bad teams. He should be signed. But we may have to simply accept that there's no easy solutions on the back end; the continued development of Komisarek is probably key in terms of bringing some real defensive strength. At some point, a good young winger might be dealt for a significant upgrade on the blueline, given the lack of depth in the system at this position.

-finally, we need to accept that the present core (Kovalev, Samsonov, Ryder, maybe even Koivu) is a transitional one. If there is to be a Cup, it will be hoisted by the up-and-coming generation of Habs...only a couple of present 'core' players will likely be left. (My money would be on Koivu, a grizzled 37-year old, reduced to PP duty and utility roles, possibly being there).

The current melt-down should not blind us to the fact that there's talent here, both veteran and young. Patience and shrewd tweaking will going a long way to putting us back on track.

Edited March 9, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[ShortHanded]

Sigh.

How to become Cup contenders? Speaking seriously:

-the young players HAVE to develop, and everything the organization does, from coaching moves to managerial ones, must be done with this as Priority #1. Carbo has done well with Plekanec and decently with Latendresse. His handling of Perezhogin (who is +11!!!) is incomprehensible, as perhaps, is his weird instant hate-on for Gorges.

-the team needs a system that its players can actually play. You can say, 'blame the players,' but our first line is off the charts in terms of +/- - Koivu has NEVER been anywhere near that bad - and the only players thriving in the current system are role-players like Bonk and Streit (Souray excepted). Obviously something is wrong.

-the organization HAS to have stability. I disagree with much of what Carbonneau's done, but do not agree that he should be fired. Let him grow with the team. Gainey has to stay on, etc.. It all starts at the top and we're NOT going to get a brain-trust with better credentials than what we now have.

-the team HAS to improve at C. People are arguing that Pleks is the new Datsyuk on the grounds that datsyuk also had mediocre offensive numbers at the same age - dubious reasoning. But even if that's true, Koivu will be 33 and we have to start turning the heat off him. Bring in a bona-fide #1 C and let Pleks replace Koivu gradually over the next 2-3 years.

-the team either needs to upgrade at D or at least maintain Souray and Markov. All you Souray-bashers: the issue is NOT whether Souray is a huge asset. The issue is in EXPECTING him to be a great outlet-passer and ace shut-down artist. He is a 'specialist.' And a VERY valuable one. Blaming him because the Habs, with insufficient depth at D, rely on him to play these roles is a classic example of the loser mentality of fans of bad teams. He should be signed. But we may have to simply accept that there's no easy solutions on the back end; the continued development of Komisarek is probably key in terms of bringing some real defensive strength. At some point, a good young winger might be dealt for a significant upgrade on the blueline, given the lack of depth in the system at this position.

-finally, we need to accept that the present core (Kovalev, Samsonov, Ryder, maybe even Koivu) is a transitional one. If there is to be a Cup, it will be hoisted by the up-and-coming generation of Habs...only a couple of present 'core' players will likely be left. (My money would be on Koivu, a grizzled 37-year old, reduced to PP duty and utility roles, possibly being there).

The current melt-down should not blind us to the fact that there's talent here, both veteran and young. Patience and shrewd tweaking will going a long way to putting us back on track.

I agree with just about everything you've said here. the only thing I will add is that I do think it would be a good idea, while not completely changing hte coaching staff, for Gainey to talk to Carbo about changing the system, and also to bring in a coach for the Defensemen.

[JoeLassister]

Do give a long term contract to: Micheal "easy wider rolling papers" Ryder, Maxime "screaming eagle" Lapierre, and Andre "4000" Markov. Do NOT give a fat contract to: Sheldon "soft hands" Souray or Sergei "never had a chance" Samsonov... also: maybe they should bury a maeWest under center ice.. Youppi needs to step his game up, he's clearly not giving 100%... Ritual slaying of Jack Todd...

ps. Jaques Demers needs to go back to his old glasses frames, his current frames were designed for space exploring 100 meter sprinters, not for be-jowled broadcasters..

I would prefer Kots on the top 2 lines than Ryder next season with Higgins, Kovy and Latendresse. So 1 year contract to Ryder maximum plz.

and I totally Agree for the Jacques Demers glasses

[Wamsley01]

I agree with just about everything you've said here. the only thing I will add is that I do think it would be a good idea, while not completely changing hte coaching staff, for Gainey to talk to Carbo about changing the system, and also to bring in a coach for the Defensemen.

I agree that stability is a key and you cannot overreact to a situation. Gainey did not inherit a team on the rise. So there must be some patience. He pulled a rabbit out of his ass when he acquired Kovalev but may have made a mistake signing a career underachiever to a 4 year deal. Gainey has done a really good job of leaving us with some cap flexibility, he has not locked many players into 4-5 year deals like the Leafs have.

My biggest fear is making that mistake this summer. Signing Souray to a 4 year 20-24 million dollar deal essentially places all our eggs in the basket of these underachievers. Everybody thinks if Free Agents will not sign here then we are screwed...not true. If you have a lot of young prospects you can go the route that the Wild did and trade O'Sullivan for a Demitra type player. Or do what Chicago did and trade for Havlat and lock him in. Teams are going to be looking to dump guys like Ottawa had to. They lost Chara/Hossa/Havlat because they could not afford them. When teams rebuild they dump salary and bargains can be had if you have prospects. But locking in Souray and Markov to 10 Million a year would be a mistake. It would leave us with a core of Koivu/Kovy/Markov/Souray/Huet taking up 21 million. That is the core that has the Habs where they are right now. Add another 10-11 million for Lats/Streit/Begin etc who are locked in for next season and you are now locked in at 32 million for next season. That is without our RFA's being signed.

Gainey should be looking at teams that will be coming up on a major decision in 2008 on Free Agents and swim like a shark around the team who may need to dump a guy they do not want to, but has to because of Cap problems. Tom Priessing/Mark Bell/Havlat...one of these things does not belong here, yet that deal was made because of Dollars and SENSE! You want your superstar, there is the way you get him!

So in other words if we re-up Souray, do not expect much difference next year without Higgins/Lats/Pleks/Komy making the leap.

What is the point in that? Seeing as the future lies with the kids why not build around the kids? It has already been proven that you cannot build around this core. This core is average and has proved that for the last 3 seasons. Kovalev is not going to return to a 95 point scorer on this team. Koivu has never been a consisten PPG scorer in his career. Samsonov has regressed the last 3 years.

If you want to hoist the Cup the guys who are going to lead you there are going to be Higgins/Latendresse/Kostitsyn/Plekanec etc and the players you acquire to compliment them. Gainey needs to forget about trying to bridge the gap for this organization. Set the path and FULLY commit to it.

In the new NHL you have to asses a value for each of your players and not go over that. Souray is not a 5-6 million dollar player. I am sorry, but he is not. Your name better be Pronger or Niedermayer to get that kind of cake! Kovalev is not a 4.5 million player. Koivu is not a 4 million player. You WILL NOT compete in the new NHL when you are paying close to 15 million dollars for those 3 players. These were improper assesments and there contributions do not justify their pay scale.

Gainey has to leave Salary Cap flexibilty and put faith in the youth movement and use that flexibility to land the BIG FISH when it arises. For me, that is the way to win the Cup

Edited March 9, 2007 by Wamsley01

[Habsy]

Sigh.

How to become Cup contenders? Speaking seriously:

-the young players HAVE to develop, and everything the organization does, from coaching moves to managerial ones, must be done with this as Priority #1. Carbo has done well with Plekanec and decently with Latendresse. His handling of Perezhogin (who is +11!!!) is incomprehensible, as perhaps, is his weird instant hate-on for Gorges.

-the team needs a system that its players can actually play. You can say, 'blame the players,' but our first line is off the charts in terms of +/- - Koivu has NEVER been anywhere near that bad - and the only players thriving in the current system are role-players like Bonk and Streit (Souray excepted). Obviously something is wrong.

-the organization HAS to have stability. I disagree with much of what Carbonneau's done, but do not agree that he should be fired. Let him grow with the team. Gainey has to stay on, etc.. It all starts at the top and we're NOT going to get a brain-trust with better credentials than what we now have.

-the team HAS to improve at C. People are arguing that Pleks is the new Datsyuk on the grounds that datsyuk also had mediocre offensive numbers at the same age - dubious reasoning. But even if that's true, Koivu will be 33 and we have to start turning the heat off him. Bring in a bona-fide #1 C and let Pleks replace Koivu gradually over the next 2-3 years.

-the team either needs to upgrade at D or at least maintain Souray and Markov. All you Souray-bashers: the issue is NOT whether Souray is a huge asset. The issue is in EXPECTING him to be a great outlet-passer and ace shut-down artist. He is a 'specialist.' And a VERY valuable one. Blaming him because the Habs, with insufficient depth at D, rely on him to play these roles is a classic example of the loser mentality of fans of bad teams. He should be signed. But we may have to simply accept that there's no easy solutions on the back end; the continued development of Komisarek is probably key in terms of bringing some real defensive strength. At some point, a good young winger might be dealt for a significant upgrade on the blueline, given the lack of depth in the system at this position.

-finally, we need to accept that the present core (Kovalev, Samsonov, Ryder, maybe even Koivu) is a transitional one. If there is to be a Cup, it will be hoisted by the up-and-coming generation of Habs...only a couple of present 'core' players will likely be left. (My money would be on Koivu, a grizzled 37-year old, reduced to PP duty and utility roles, possibly being there).

The current melt-down should not blind us to the fact that there's talent here, both veteran and young. Patience and shrewd tweaking will going a long way to putting us back on track.

As usual, you're bang on. Only problem, nobody is going to part with a number one center. It'll have to be developed, which hasn't happened here in decades.

[bobby]

Uuuuhhhh.....I think winning 4 playoff series would probably do it. Matter of fact, I'm sure of that.

[Strummerman]

let's try Ken Dryden or Patrick Roy in nets?

[Athlétique.Canadien]

A super streak is the only hope but I don't see it. They're light years away from getting it together this year.

As for being contenders. That might happen for '08 if Gainey pulls a major rabbit out of the hat in FA this year. Prospect and building wise it's two years to three IMO

Edited March 10, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[cfposi]

let's try Ken Dryden or Patrick Roy in nets?

Don't think dryden would do very well with this day and age

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Don't forget that Gainey may surprise us too. He may be shrewd and clever in signing the RFA's that deserve raises to what is lower than market value in the league. The way it stands now, about 9 to 10 million is how much our cap space will shrink (Rivet already part of equation). Plus with the cap also rising, if Gainey spends 7 million more on Markov and Souray that leaves 2 to 3 million. Add in the cap rising and it becomes 6 to 7 million.

If Souray goes we'll never hear the end of it. But as much as that may hurt the 6 to 7 million becomes 10 to 11 million.

It all hinges on how Gainey handles the RFA's. It won't be easy.

[Tony]

I've skimmed through most of the post and I agree with plenty of things.

As said many times, the Habs have the assets but need to develop them.

Personally, the Habs need a defensive rock on their blue line. Markov has been doing a stand up job but you can see his frustration when he has to take the obvious penalties to stop a scoring chance or cover up a defensive mistake. He needs more help badly.

I've been preaching this for many seasons now (to get an amazing defender) and hopefully Bob can work something out. During this bad slump it's easy to see that aside a couple of guys, most of the team's defenders can be dumped away without too much worry. If anything, I'd say the team's defense overachieved all of last season (and the beginning of this season) when people kept saying that the Habs had one of the best defensive corp in the East.

I see some potential in Gorges, hopefully they'll mold him out nicely with time (he needs to add some muscle first and foremost!). The Habs were patient enough for Komisarek to develop nicely, I'm sure they'll do the same for Gorges.

[Strummerman]

Don't think dryden would do very well with this day and age

jeepers the man lost only 50 games his whole career- he can play in any era especially this bloated one star per team era- when Dryden beat Boston they had the likes of Orr Espo Hodge Bucyk Stanfield Mackenzie, when he beat the hawks they had Bobby and Dennis Hull Stan Mikita etc etc