Soccerox Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Who is the greatest goalie of all time for the Habs? Is it George Hainsworth or Ken Dryden? GH has the shutout record, but KD won 6 cups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 You're forgetting Georges Vezina (my Habsworld namesake!), the sadly overlooked Bill Durnan, Patrick Roy, and my own candidate: Jacques Plante. Not only did Plante win five straight Cups, he revolutionized the position by introducing the roving netminder AND the mask. Greatest goalie of all time in my books. Also, Dryden only carried the team to a Cup on his back once, in 1971. Roy did it twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I haven't watched these guys play but I would have to go with Roy. He's in a class of his own IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 You're forgetting Georges Vezina (my Habsworld namesake!), the sadly overlooked Bill Durnan, Patrick Roy, and my own candidate: Jacques Plante. Not only did Plante win five straight Cups, he revolutionized the position by introducing the roving netminder AND the mask. Greatest goalie of all time in my books. Also, Dryden only carried the team to a Cup on his back once, in 1971. Roy did it twice. I guess it depends on your criteria. Impact and career with the team: Ken Dryden Dryden won 6 cups in 8 seasons!! That is unbelievable. His career record is 258-57-74!!!! argument against - great team, didn't have to do anything blah blah blah Impact and career in the NHL: Patrick Roy Roy won 4 Stanley Cups and 3 Conn Smythe trophies and revolutionized the goaltending position. He made goaltending a science instead of reflex and reaction and spawned a generation of great goalies. Overall - I think Roy is the best of All-Time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nesquik Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Impact and career in the NHL: Patrick Roy Roy won 4 Stanley Cups and 3 Conn Smythe trophies and revolutionized the goaltending position. He made goaltending a science instead of reflex and reaction and spawned a generation of great goalies. Overall - I think Roy is the best of All-Time But Roy did leave the team and win some cups in Colorado, so he didn't achieve all of that in Montreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathieu30 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Whitout a doubt Mr. Patrick Roy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) But Roy did leave the team and win some cups in Colorado, so he didn't achieve all of that in Montreal. Which is why I said it depends on your criteria. I think Patrick Roy is the best of all-time. I think he was better than Dryden and if he was the goalie in the 70's instead of Dryden he would have won 6 cups. But if your criteria is only what was accomplished on the Habs and nobody else, then Dryden wins. If it is just somebody who played for the Habs, than Tony Esposito could also be tossed into the conversation. 1. Patrick Roy 2. Ken Dryden 3. Jacques Plante 4. Rick Wamsley Edited October 10, 2007 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerox Posted October 10, 2007 Author Share Posted October 10, 2007 Whitout a doubt Mr. Patrick Roy. Wah only won two cups over a long period of time and the last one was when all the great teams choked in the playoffs. Then he bailed on us and blamed everyone. He only looked good when he had great defense, but as you can see when the defense looked shaky and more shots came thru, he disappeared and let in nine goals one day. Clearly it should be dryden or maybe even plante. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Dryden or Roy. It's always hard to compare across eras, and those two stand out most to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Gump Worsley (placed by Red Fisher as the key player in the 7th best Habs trade of all time in today's Gazette) has to be mentioned as well. He's definitely my favourite, and while he's not as legendary, he was still pretty damn good. One of the great characters the sport has ever seen, that's for sure. Toe Blake said that he never saw a goalie in his lifetime as good as Plante was during the '50s dynasty. I also like Hainsworth a lot because he got plucked out of the Saskatoon Shieks of the PCHL. Vezina & Hainsworth should have banners raised in Montreal. They didn't have numbers back then, so we wouldn't take anything out of circulation to do that. But I think they're legends in their own right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Wah only won two cups over a long period of time and the last one was when all the great teams choked in the playoffs. Then he bailed on us and blamed everyone. He only looked good when he had great defense, but as you can see when the defense looked shaky and more shots came thru, he disappeared and let in nine goals one day. Clearly it should be dryden or maybe even plante. Oh, dear. Wamsley has used this lecture plenty of times, I can tell you what his next post is going to be off-by-heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathieu30 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Wah only won two cups over a long period of time and the last one was when all the great teams choked in the playoffs. Then he bailed on us and blamed everyone. He only looked good when he had great defense, but as you can see when the defense looked shaky and more shots came thru, he disappeared and let in nine goals one day. Clearly it should be dryden or maybe even plante. Yeah.. he just 'disappeared' and let in 9 goals.. hehe Well, IMHO Patrick Roy and Mr. François Allaire changed the face of hockey when they started working together in 1986. True, Jacques Plante had a big impact on the game of hockey, but IMHO the duo of Roy and Allaire re-invented the position. In Roy's rookie season a good Sv% was around 85%, 20 years later it's 92% and higher. You simply can not compare a goaltender from the pre-roy era with a goalie that is playing today. Roy is simply the greatest goalie ever to play the position. Yes, you can prove by statistics that X, Y...Z Just don't. Roy is the greatest goalie of all time. :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) Plante is definitely getting the short end of the stick in this debate so far. Roy changed the position, yes - but not as much as Plante. (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Roy). I thought I'd just throw a word for all the 'pretty good' number one goalies the Habs have had through the years. These tend to be forgotten by fans of a franchise that has an almost unbelievable track-record of producing great goalies, and also for producing incredibly hot goalies at just the right time (hi there, Steve Penney and Jose Theodore!). These second-tier Habs goalies include: -Gerry McNeil -Charlie Hodge -Gump Worsley -Denis Herron -Doug Soetart -Brian Hayward -Andy Moog -Jeff Hackett -Cristobal Huet Any one of these guys were bona fide No. 1 NHL goaltenders stepped into the breach and carried the torch while the Habs waited for the next Great Goalie to materialize. So, kudos to 'em! :hlogo: Edited October 10, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 I would count Theodore on that list, Cuke. Especially if we're only talking about what he's done with the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 Roy betrayed us because of one Fricking game and yoru calling him our greatest goalie. I would go with Vezina, that's why they named the trophy after him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 no doubt that Vezina and Hainsworth were great, legendary goalies, but you kinda need to deduct points for the whole no forward pass thing I'll take Plante (mostly based on what I've heard) or Roy. Dryden is a strong third. Roy betrayed us because of one Fricking game and yoru calling him our greatest goalie. I would go with Vezina, that's why they named the trophy after him. being a jerk, if that is how you interpret it, doesn't make you a lesser goalie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 10, 2007 Share Posted October 10, 2007 (edited) Oh, dear. Wamsley has used this lecture plenty of times, I can tell you what his next post is going to be off-by-heart. Just for you BTH Repost from a July thread called How good were the '93 Cup Champions? That coming off cancer Lemieux scored 56 points in his last 20 games and scored 18 points in 10 playoff games. The return from cancer hardly factored into the loss. Was it a break...sure it was. But Montreal was in 1st overall with about 15 games to go and went into a tailspin. They played Pittsburgh in the midst of the tailspin and took them to OT in Pittsburgh before losing a tough one. They were an elite team. I think they were winless in their last 12 yet they still finished 4 points out of being 3rd overall in the league. They had leftovers from the 86 championship team and they had leftovers from the 115 point powerhouse team that lost in the Finals in 1989. The Toronto media has long called Montreal's last 2 cups flukes. And everybody discredit's the win because Pittsburgh lost. But what if they beat Pittsburgh? Would it be legit then? They had 102 points and They won 11 STRAIGHT GAMES in the playoffs. A playoff record. They destroyed the team that beat Pittsburgh, they handily defeated the team that defeated the Leafs in 7 hard fought games. Has any team in the last 20 years gone through the playoffs with an .800 Winning %? They never played a game where they could be eliminated. That Quebec team was a really good team that was on the verge but did not really know how to win. Look at the talent on that team. It was so talented that they would win a Cup 3 years later. And Quebec has Home Ice advantage in that series. Buffalo was not a great team but they had just smoked a Bruins team that had finished in second overall with 109 points in 4 straight. They were very dangerous. Everybody says the Kings series could have gone either way. BS. The Habs no showed game 1 and were dominating LA in game 2 but still found themselves down by a goal. I believe they were outshooting them 35-18 and losing. Then in game 3-4 in LA the Habs blew 2-0 and 3-0 leads and in game 5 they totally dominated them. IT was not fluke. Hrudey was unbelievable. As far as the 10 OT wins go, that was the style the Habs played. They played a tight defensive game and they capitalzed on their opportunities. Their best player was their goalie. They had a Lemieux...but he was in the net. And in almost all of those OT wins they blew late game leads. Look back at the careers of Gretzky and Lemieux and check their Stanley Cup haul. Patrick Roy matches Gretzky and has 2 more than Lemieux. HE WAS THE SUPERSTAR. He dominated the playoffs like Lemiuex did the 2 seasons before. Goaltending is like Pitching in baseball. You cannot win without it. It amazes me that a team can go 16-4 on the road to the Cup and be seen as a lucky. Every team that wins a cup gets breaks. This year Anaheim was about to go down 3-2 heading to Detroit and Niedermayers shot hit a stick and went in over Hasek in the last minute, a game they would go on to win in OT. If that does not go in they might not have won the Cup. It is not often a team just plows through the playoffs. Carolina lost 9 games in their Cup run Tampa Bay lost 7 games Anaheim lost 5 games Jersey lost 8 games/7 games/4 games Red Wings lost 7 games/6 games/4 games Colorado lost 7 games/6 games Dallas lost 7 games Rangers lost 7 games So since the Habs won the Cup in 93 only 2 teams have matched what they accomplished. And they were both multiple Cup winners in Jersey and Detroit. I think it is about time people start respecting how good that team was. Edited October 10, 2007 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 You're forgetting Georges Vezina (my Habsworld namesake!), the sadly overlooked Bill Durnan, Patrick Roy, and my own candidate: Jacques Plante. Sadly overlooked in right - Durnan had 6 Vezina wins, equal to Plante as the most with the Canadiens (nobody else comes close). As someone said, comparing across generations is impossible. All goalies mentioned, including/especially Roy, had the benefit of the accumulated wisdom of goaltending to that point. Certainly there were no goaltending coaches for most of the history of team, and the plus-sized equipment helped Roy too. Given that he was both an innovator and the best goalie of his time, my vote is for Plante. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Plante is definitely getting the short end of the stick in this debate so far. Roy changed the position, yes - but not as much as Plante. (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Roy). I thought I'd just throw a word for all the 'pretty good' number one goalies the Habs have had through the years. These tend to be forgotten by fans of a franchise that has an almost unbelievable track-record of producing great goalies, and also for producing incredibly hot goalies at just the right time (hi there, Steve Penney and Jose Theodore!). These second-tier Habs goalies include: -Gerry McNeil -Charlie Hodge -Gump Worsley -Denis Herron -Doug Soetart -Brian Hayward -Andy Moog -Jeff Hackett -Cristobal Huet Any one of these guys were bona fide No. 1 NHL goaltenders stepped into the breach and carried the torch while the Habs waited for the next Great Goalie to materialize. So, kudos to 'em! :hlogo: I loved Denis Herron. Used to make cutout masks with the Red/Blue triangles Plante was influential for sure, and he did more with the Habs than Roy. 5 straight cups is nothing to sneeze at. But I think Plante's puck handling and introducing the mask are no more important than the Scientific approach and decade of goalie cheating that Roy introduced. The amount of Roy clones that appeared in the 90's was unbelievable and are still appearing today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Patrick Roy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Hey Cataclaw, make a Plecs Kovalev Kosty line signature, because I have a feeling they will be together for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Yeah, i kind of liked Kovy Grabs ####, but Kovy Plex #### is good too. Doesn't have the same ring to it though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I have to go with Roy. He changed the way the position is played....hard to top that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 1. Roy. He carried two teams to the cup. When he was on he was simply unbeatable. 2. Plante was a revolutionary goalie but he benefited from (and contributed to) great habs teams 3. Dryden was great and he carried us to the cup in 71. He was the best ever at playing on a strong team with long stretches between tough saves. This is a skill that many goalies don't have and shouldn't be underestimated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsman24 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 For me it's Dryden. Amazing numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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