Cataclaw Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) For the record, I don't think the habs will make the playoffs as is, and I said that before the season. If you want a sign of a team turning a corner, it is often losing a game where they played great. If they keep at it, they will turn the corner. Remember last year, we were winning games by fluke, hot goaltending, and minor miracles. Everyone was happy.. I was very nervous. They didn't deserve to win many of those games and sure enough, the turned the corner... straight down.... I can guarantee you that the Panthers coaches are not happy with their team right now. they love vokoun, but they know they have to play better then that. Carbo just need the team to keep playing that way and the wins will come. ( I am not counting on it, but I am not going to crap on them for this game, no way). You know, it's the same argument that always comes up. If your team plays and puts in effort but doesn't secure the win, is it worth being happy about? (thinking that, hey, if they put up an effort like this constantly, the wins will come) I would have to say yes -- until you start to count the number of "stolen" games that should have been wins. When that number starts to get pretty high, it's no longer a matter of "the wins will come" and it becomes a matter of "shit, we can't seem to find a way to win, despite putting in a good effort" and that worries me. Still, after 5 games, i'm "OK" with the result Edited October 17, 2007 by Cataclaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I do not understand the bitterness. This was truly a GREAT GAME. The team played superb hockey. They won every battle. They were excellent in their own end. They hit. They showed imagination. They dominated. And they did it for a full 60 minutes - practically very shift. The only problem was that Vokun was simply unreal. That's all. I haven't seen a Habs game like that in a long, long time. You know what it reminded me of? Games from the 1980s - the Carbonneau teams. They too would occasionally have games stolen from them by hot goalies, but they battled and won way more nights than they lost. Yes, it's very disappointing to see them go unrewarded. But I believe that this could be the first true game of the 'Carbonneau' era. We saw tonight the team playing the kind of hockey that Carbo and Gainey are building toward. And damn, it will be good. The only question is, does this team have the heart to bounce back from an obstacle it's hardly ever faced before - namely, dominating for 60 minutes and still losing? That's a challenge that good teams sometimes have to face. But not my Habs. Until tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 You know, it's the same argument that always comes up. If your team plays and puts in effort but doesn't secure the win, is it worth being happy about? (thinking that, hey, if they put up an effort like this constantly, the wins will come) I would have to say yes -- until you start to count the number of "stolen" games that should have been wins. When that number starts to get pretty high, it's no longer a matter of "the wins will come" and it becomes a matter of "shit, we can't seem to find a way to win, despite putting in a good effort" and that worries me. Still, after 5 games, i'm "OK" with the result The worst thing is that we all know the Habs don't respond like a normal team. They wont come out and destroy Ottawa, they try hard every third game and hope for the best for the rest. It's like the whole damn team has Kovalev syndrome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) No I am here to say I agree with you, in the distant future one day we will harvest a franchise goal scorer........ whether any of us will be alive to see that day is another thing. I knew like many of you the lead would be lost, we wouldn't pull it out in overtime because why score in OT if we aren't gonna bother scoriing in the previous 50 minutes? Face it, Gainey better make a move, non moves don't equal progress! I think Gainey should make a move this season. Not a panic move now though. When you have 10-15 NHL calibre players under the age of 25 and legitimate prospects you have to pick the ones you think will fit the system and trade the other ones. If you wait for the good ones to develop and cast aside the others you have not maximized return on your assets. The growing has been going on for 4 years, the time is quickly approaching were Gainey has to harvest the crops. He is going to have to make a bold move. Wether that is trading Ryder and Grabovski and Fischer for a legitimate Center/goal scorer or trade a mid-high level prospect for a Rental. YOu cannot keep them all, and you have 2 guys who are becoming UFAs this summer. He has to be aggressive. If he stands pat all season and lets Ryder and Huet walk I will be pretty upset, just like I was upset when they did not deal Souray. But the talent is here to build a strong nucleus of a contender, but they need some bold strokes to complete the ascension Edited October 17, 2007 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l<OV4L3V Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) As I posted Earlier on page 1 of this thread... Keys to the game: Kovalev needs to stop hitting the damn post and score an actual goal Garth Murray/Kosto need to know their role and set the damn tone with some early hits Stay out of the box (horton, weiss, jokinen=lethal) Komisaurek rex needs to scrap, especially if someone pisses him off Huet bails us out a couple of times All of the Above were basically achieved...And yet we still lose! Very irresponsible penalty from Komisarek at the late phase of the game..its not like it was a game saving penalty. There was no chance posed for a scoring opportunity there...very unnecessary. In fact....since he was so irresponsible in doing such...I would give Gorges a chance thursday night and let him watch a game from the pressbox. Edited October 17, 2007 by l<OV4L3V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think Gainey should make a move. When you have 10-15 NHL calibre players under the age of 25 and legitimate prospects you have to pick the ones you think will fit the system and trade the other ones. If you wait for the good ones to develop and cast aside the others you have not maximized return on your assets. The growing has been going on for 4 years, the time is quickly approaching were Gainey has to harvest the crops. He is going to have to make a bold move. Wether that is trading Ryder and Grabovski and Fischer for a legitimate Center/goal scorer or trade a mid-high level prospect for a Rental. YOu cannot keep them all, and you have 2 guys who are becoming UFAs this summer. He has to be aggressive. If he stands pat all season and lets Ryder and Huet walk I will be pretty upset, just like I was upset when they did not deal Souray. But the talent is here to build a strong nucleus of a contender, but they need some bold strokes to complete the ascension I said it before in the other thread, if Ryder walks away for nothing Gainey should be fired and If Huet leaves I am beyond words.. Watching blue chip talent leave for nothing is not progress. Right now we could have a solid first line winger, Souray could have brought us a 1st line winger just think about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 The worst thing is that we all know the Habs don't respond like a normal team. They wont come out and destroy Ottawa, they try hard every third game and hope for the best for the rest. It's like the whole damn team has Kovalev syndrome. Ironically, the whole damn team except Kovalev, who is playing pretty darn good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 As I posted Earlier on page 1 of this thread... Keys to the game: Kovalev needs to stop hitting the damn post and score an actual goal Garth Murray/Kosto need to know their role and set the damn tone with some early hits Stay out of the box (horton, weiss, jokinen=lethal) Komisaurek rex needs to scrap, especially if someone pisses him off Huet bails us out a couple of times All of the Above were basically achieved...And yet we still lose! Very irresponsible penalty from Komisarek at the late phase of the game..its not like it was a game saving penalty. There was no chance posed for a scoring opportunity there...very unnecessary. In fact....since he was so irresponsible in doing such...I would give Gorges a chance thursday night and let him watch a game from the pressbox. Right, now it's time for the mandatory scapegoating. Komi had a better game than he's shown recently. Granted, that was a stupid play, but the real issue was the one goal lead that made them vulnerable in the first place. Anyway, benching him would be counterproductive IMHO. Better to challenge him to bounce back. This game was one to build on. For God's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I do not understand the bitterness. This was truly a GREAT GAME. The team played superb hockey. They won every battle. They were excellent in their own end. They hit. They showed imagination. They dominated. And they did it for a full 60 minutes - practically very shift. The only problem was that Vokun was simply unreal. That's all. I haven't seen a Habs game like that in a long, long time. You know what it reminded me of? Games from the 1980s - the Carbonneau teams. They too would occasionally have games stolen from them by hot goalies, but they battled and won way more nights than they lost. Yes, it's very disappointing to see them go unrewarded. But I believe that this could be the first true game of the 'Carbonneau' era. We saw tonight the team playing the kind of hockey that Carbo and Gainey are building toward. And damn, it will be good. The only question is, does this team have the heart to bounce back from an obstacle it's hardly ever faced before - namely, dominating for 60 minutes and still losing? That's a challenge that good teams sometimes have to face. But not my Habs. Until tonight. The hardest thing to swallow for everyone is that we have seen this all before. That is what is frustrating and disheartening. They have played 4 really good games and have blown the lead in all but one of them. My biggest frustration with this team for the last 10 seasons is their lack of ability to close out games. In the 80's/early 90s a 1 goal lead in the third was essentially 2 points. From the age of 6 to the age of 25 I think I saw the Habs blow 10 games in the final minute. THat happens 5-6 times a season in the last 10 years. That is where I get irrational and angry. :puke: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBHabs_fan Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Anyway you slice it that record reads 2-3. Only in the ridiculous new NHL can you have a 2-5 record like Toronto and be one win from .500. I see your point, but in our case, thank god for it. I mean we had the games against TOR and FLA and blew them, so the OTL point is consolation. (Not to mention I wouldnt consider tonights SO loss as one of our "3 losses") Maybe these extra points even out over the balance of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Right, now it's time for the mandatory scapegoating. Komi had a better game than he's shown recently. Granted, that was a stupid play, but the real issue was the one goal lead that made them vulnerable in the first place. Anyway, benching him would be counterproductive IMHO. Better to challenge him to bounce back. This game was one to build on. For God's sake. No a couple bad games you can look at the players, a losing streak you look up at the coach but when you see the same pattern repeating over the whole team and nothing gets done over entire seasons you look at the higher ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) The hardest thing to swallow for everyone is that we have seen this all before. That is what is frustrating and disheartening. They have played 4 really good games and have blown the lead in all but one of them. My biggest frustration with this team for the last 10 seasons is their lack of ability to close out games. In the 80's/early 90s a 1 goal lead in the third was essentially 2 points. From the age of 6 to the age of 25 I think I saw the Habs blow 10 games in the final minute. THat happens 5-6 times a season in the last 10 years. That is where I get irrational and angry. :puke: Well, fair enough. But that's not the perspective I'd adopt. The problems last season were incessant stupid penalties, terrible 5-on-5 play and a total inability to play 60 full minutes of determined, character hockey. We saw NONE of the above weaknesses tonight. Just terrific team play from start to finish, in every facet of the game. Vokun was through the roof. It happens. OneSharpMarble talks above about 'repeating patterns.' Jesus, give me more of this 'pattern' of 60 great minutes, total domination, toughness, and sharp netminding. This team looked NOTHING like the team of last season or the year before. If they play like this every night I have no worries about making the playoffs. None. Edited October 17, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I said it before in the other thread, if Ryder walks away for nothing Gainey should be fired and If Huet leaves I am beyond words.. Watching blue chip talent leave for nothing is not progress. Right now we could have a solid first line winger, Souray could have brought us a 1st line winger just think about that. I don't think Souray would have brought a first line winger. My problem with that whole situation was we were not going to win the Cup last season even if we snuck in the Playoffs. I did not want to pay Souray 6M a year, so why not get picks or assets for him in return. It was a mistake, it was a Toronto Maple Leaf move. I would trade Ryder and Huet right now for the right package. I want to win the Cup. Whatever helps in that journey I am all for. I believe this team is on the right path. But Gainey can not just sit on the youth. They are step 1. In Dallas when he smelt the opportunity he dealt Iginla for Niewuendyk and that trade won the Stars a Cup. I hope that he makes a similar deal but manages to scam a team into a hit/miss prospect who misses. I still think the next 2 years will be gratifying for habs fans. Losses like these will ALWAYS hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) I still think the next 2 years will be gratifying for habs fans. Not without a trade, the youth will get better but we don't have anyone who will become that game breaker we so badly need. This is as good as this team will get without a shakeup. Cucumber: You wont see this work ethic for another 2 games. Thats the pattern. Edited October 17, 2007 by OneSharpMarble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Well, fair enough. But that's not the perspective I'd adopt. The problems last season were incessant stupid penalties, terrible 5-on-5 play and a total inability to play 60 full minutes of determined, character hockey. We saw NONE of the above weaknesses tonight. Just terrific team play from start to finish, in every facet of the game. Vokun was through the roof. It happens. OneSharpMarble talks above about 'repeating patterns.' Jesus, give me more of this 'pattern' of 60 great minutes, total domination, toughness, and sharp netminding. This team looked NOTHING like the team of last season or the year before. If they play like this every night I have no worries about making the playoffs. None. Like I said. It is where I get irrational and angry. When I saw Stumpel slide that puck through Huet's pads I was enraged. If I posted the things I was thinking in the first 2-3 minutes it would be a jumbled mess of overreaction. They played a great game, for 59 minutes. But the points I made earlier are disheartening. They need to TAKE points, not play afraid late and GIVE away points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) on the bright side higgins was awesome but he needs someone to put it in the net. koivu played awesome but he needs someone to put it in the net ETC ETC ETC Edited October 17, 2007 by habs rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Not without a trade, the youth will get better but we don't have anyone who will become that game breaker we so badly need. This is as good as this team will get without a shakeup. So our young players have all maxed out? You expect nothing more from Price, Pleks, Higgins, or even Kostytin? However, we will indeed have to make a trade sooner or later. But panicking after the best game we've played in probably two years, jeez, that strikes me as weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l<OV4L3V Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Right, now it's time for the mandatory scapegoating. Komi had a better game than he's shown recently. Granted, that was a stupid play, but the real issue was the one goal lead that made them vulnerable in the first place. Anyway, benching him would be counterproductive IMHO. Better to challenge him to bounce back. This game was one to build on. For God's sake. Normally I agree with you on these matters Cucumber, however, the entire team played responsible the entire game. If the zero tolerance policy for penalties was just implemented, I would let that slide, however Komisarek is very aware that what he did is a penalty in the league now. Also, Gorges had a very nice goal vs the Sens in the last preseason game. Carbonneau is letting his point be known that if you aren't willing to play 110% every shift, then there is a spot welcome for you in the pressbox. I think Komisarek has goofed up more than enough times in the past. What you state challenging him would be the best way to go, I would usually say go for it, however it could also work if he has some time to reflect on his mistake in the pressbox. Vokoun was outstanding tonight...we couldn't get two goals past him even if we wanted to, therefore I was actually thankful they were fortunate enough to get that go-ahead goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBHabs_fan Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Well, fair enough. But that's not the perspective I'd adopt. The problems last season were incessant stupid penalties, terrible 5-on-5 play and a total inability to play 60 full minutes of determined, character hockey. We saw NONE of the above weaknesses tonight. Just terrific team play from start to finish, in every facet of the game. Vokun was through the roof. It happens. OneSharpMarble talks above about 'repeating patterns.' Jesus, give me more of this 'pattern' of 60 great minutes, total domination, toughness, and sharp netminding. This team looked NOTHING like the team of last season or the year before. If they play like this every night I have no worries about making the playoffs. None. Yes, but they WONT....no team can, and when we cant get 2 pts on our best nights, I get discouraged. That being said, let's hope we get this effort on MOST nights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Not without a trade, the youth will get better but we don't have anyone who will become that game breaker we so badly need. This is as good as this team will get without a shakeup. If the Habs stand pat, I will question Gainey's decision. But I don't think they will. I think there is a reason the Habs are 5-6 Mill below the cap. This team is in good shape. Are they a Cup contender if they do nothing. NO WAY. But the core of youth with a couple of great acquisitions and this team could contend for a berth in the Finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 So our young players have all maxed out? You expect nothing more from Price, Pleks, Higgins, or even Kostytin? However, we will indeed have to make a trade sooner or later. But panicking after the best game we've played in probably two years, jeez, that strikes me as weird. This isn't panic we've needed this trade for like 3 years! All those guys are great players, all strong but none of them game breakers. We don't have anyone in the same universe as Thornton, Iginla, Jagr, Briere, Crosby, Ovechkin, Pronger and the list goes on. We have a team full of OK players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Normally I agree with you on these matters Cucumber, however, the entire team played responsible the entire game. If the zero tolerance policy for penalties was just implemented, I would let that slide, however Komisarek is very aware that what he did is a penalty in the league now. Also, Gorges had a very nice goal vs the Sens in the last preseason game. Carbonneau is letting his point be known that if you aren't willing to play 110% every shift, then there is a spot welcome for you in the pressbox. I think Komisarek has goofed up more than enough times in the past. What you state challenging him would be the best way to go, I would usually say go for it, however it could also work if he has some time to reflect on his mistake in the pressbox. Vokoun was outstanding tonight...we couldn't get two goals past him even if we wanted to, therefore I was actually thankful they were fortunate enough to get that go-ahead goal. I would send out the exact same lineup they did tonight and say do it again boys. There is no reason the Habs could not have saved his ass by killing it off. If they killed it you would be saying Komi played a really strong game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBHabs_fan Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think Gainey should make a move this season. Not a panic move now though. When you have 10-15 NHL calibre players under the age of 25 and legitimate prospects you have to pick the ones you think will fit the system and trade the other ones. If you wait for the good ones to develop and cast aside the others you have not maximized return on your assets. The growing has been going on for 4 years, the time is quickly approaching were Gainey has to harvest the crops. He is going to have to make a bold move. Wether that is trading Ryder and Grabovski and Fischer for a legitimate Center/goal scorer or trade a mid-high level prospect for a Rental. YOu cannot keep them all, and you have 2 guys who are becoming UFAs this summer. He has to be aggressive. If he stands pat all season and lets Ryder and Huet walk I will be pretty upset, just like I was upset when they did not deal Souray. But the talent is here to build a strong nucleus of a contender, but they need some bold strokes to complete the ascension Agreed. Let's hope he has some kahonas. Or better yet, good hockey sense. The thing that worries me sometimes is that Bob tries, but without success, to land the deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 This isn't panic we've needed this trade for like 3 years! All those guys are great players, all strong but none of them game breakers. We don't have anyone in the same universe as Thornton, Iginla, Jagr, Briere, Crosby, Ovechkin, Pronger and the list goes on. We have a team full of OK players. But a trade 3 years ago would not have turned this team into a contender. The time is just about right. The youthful core, the prospects biting at the heels and a stacked crease they have a ton of assets and cap space to change the face of this team. I expect something to go down mid season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 So our young players have all maxed out? You expect nothing more from Price, Pleks, Higgins, or even Kostytin? However, we will indeed have to make a trade sooner or later. But panicking after the best game we've played in probably two years, jeez, that strikes me as weird. cuke it's not a matter of panicking it is acknowledging that we need a sniper, why else did Bob try to sign all those free agents for stupid money. We have a very good team but we are missing a component that we won't be able to wait for to develop. This team with a sniper could win the cup next year. We have too many goalies too many defencemen we need offence tonight proved it. Yes we got hurt by a hot goalie but that is an excuse, good teams know how to win. This team needs some help. Huet and some others will be gone by xmas in exchange for offence. Maybe Hossa (Marion) looks good? :ghg: :ghg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.