CBHabs_fan Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Normally I agree with you on these matters Cucumber, however, the entire team played responsible the entire game. If the zero tolerance policy for penalties was just implemented, I would let that slide, however Komisarek is very aware that what he did is a penalty in the league now. Also, Gorges had a very nice goal vs the Sens in the last preseason game. Carbonneau is letting his point be known that if you aren't willing to play 110% every shift, then there is a spot welcome for you in the pressbox. I think Komisarek has goofed up more than enough times in the past. What you state challenging him would be the best way to go, I would usually say go for it, however it could also work if he has some time to reflect on his mistake in the pressbox. Vokoun was outstanding tonight...we couldn't get two goals past him even if we wanted to, therefore I was actually thankful they were fortunate enough to get that go-ahead goal. Are you suggesting we sit Komisarek vs. Ottawa? If so, you should probably shake your head.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 cuke it's not a matter of panicking it is acknowledging that we need a sniper, why else did Bob try to sign all those free agents for stupid money. We have a very good team but we are missing a component that we won't be able to wait for to develop. This team with a sniper could win the cup next year. We have too many goalies too many defencemen we need offence tonight proved it. Yes we got hurt by a hot goalie but that is an excuse, good teams know how to win. This team needs some help. Huet and some others will be gone by xmas in exchange for offence. Maybe Hossa (Marion) looks good? :ghg: :ghg: You know if Atlanta continues to suck that Hossa will hit the market. He is the type of guy who you would dive head in for. I am sure Waddell will be asking for Price, than Higgins, than Plekanec etc etc. But he is a UFA, so if he dangles to long picks and prospects might be able to land him. Similar to the price NYI paid for Ryan Smyth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 You know if Atlanta continues to suck that Hossa will hit the market. He is the type of guy who you would dive head in for. I am sure Waddell will be asking for Price, than Higgins, than Plekanec etc etc. But he is a UFA, so if he dangles to long picks and prospects might be able to land him. Similar to the price NYI paid for Ryan Smyth. I think huet ryder and someone else gets the deal done but we will see. It is an interesting thought not a rumour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think huet ryder and someone else gets the deal done but we will see. It is an interesting thought not a rumour. One loss will not change my perspective on the future of this team. But it would be nice to see Gainey make a deal that takes this team to the next level. The prospects are there, the UFAs and the Cap space. I will be more shocked if nothing happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 For the record, I agree that at some point Bob has to pull the trigger. And I agree that Ryder and Huet are likely candidates for such a package. It's interesting, though - OSM is basically saying we're doomed to suckage without some huge move; Wamsley01 is saying we're actually so close to contending that the right move is all we need. That's quite a divergence, leading to the same conclusion. Me, I think the young nucleus needs another 1-2 years before it hits its collective ceiling; and Koivu's only got maybe 3 years left in him. So The Big Move can come any time between now and 2009. (The real reason for moving Huet and Ryder is contractual, not the 'intrinsic logic' of team-building). Anyway, The Move won't help unless the foundation is there. Tonight's game was precisely the kind of foundation we need to have in place if the Big Name is to step in and take us that extra step. Before tonight, we did not see that this team had the capacity to play a game like this. But it does. What we saw tonight was a team beginning to realize what kind of potential it has. Now the challenge is take the lessons learned here and apply them, game in and game out. If we do that, then I would not be surprised to see Bob finally make The Move, sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 For the record, I agree that at some point Bob has to pull the trigger. And I agree that Ryder and Huet are likely candidates for such a package. It's interesting, though - OSM is basically saying we're doomed to suckage without some huge move; Wamsley01 is saying we're actually so close to contending that the right move is all we need. That's quite a divergence, leading to the same conclusion. Me, I think the young nucleus needs another 1-2 years before it hits its collective ceiling; and Koivu's only got maybe 3 years left in him. So The Big Move can come any time between now and 2009. (The real reason for moving Huet and Ryder is contractual, not the 'intrinsic logic' of team-building). Anyway, The Move won't help unless the foundation is there. Tonight's game was precisely the kind of foundation we need to have in place if the Big Name is to step in and take us that extra step. Before tonight, we did not see that this team had the capacity to play a game like this. But it does. What we saw tonight was a team beginning to realize what kind of potential it has. Now the challenge is take the lessons learned here and apply them, game in and game out. If we do that, then I would not be surprised to see Bob finally make The Move, sooner rather than later. I only expect something this year because of the UFAs. If the youth keeps improving and can repeat efforts like tonight I think the perfect storm starts to form. Emerging youth+Montreal UFAs+Cap Space=Somebody trying to get something for a UFA They are in good shape. I still think this team will make the leap in the next 2 years. I am patient. But I would like it sooner rather than later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) For the record, I agree that at some point Bob has to pull the trigger. And I agree that Ryder and Huet are likely candidates for such a package. It's interesting, though - OSM is basically saying we're doomed to suckage without some huge move; Wamsley01 is saying we're actually so close to contending that the right move is all we need. That's quite a divergence, leading to the same conclusion. Me, I think the young nucleus needs another 1-2 years before it hits its collective ceiling; and Koivu's only got maybe 3 years left in him. So The Big Move can come any time between now and 2009. (The real reason for moving Huet and Ryder is contractual, not the 'intrinsic logic' of team-building). Anyway, The Move won't help unless the foundation is there. Tonight's game was precisely the kind of foundation we need to have in place if the Big Name is to step in and take us that extra step. Before tonight, we did not see that this team had the capacity to play a game like this. But it does. What we saw tonight was a team beginning to realize what kind of potential it has. Now the challenge is take the lessons learned here and apply them, game in and game out. If we do that, then I would not be surprised to see Bob finally make The Move, sooner rather than later. oh come on now don't be so positive, are you sure we shouldn't fire carbo fire gainey shoot gillette and trade everybody? Now that is sarcasm. I agree totally with what you said except that Bob does not have any more rebuilding time he needs to make a move now and before xmas. This team has huge upside and potential but they need a goal scorer. It will change the team totally from a close but no cigar to a proven winner. of course that is just my opinion. B) by the way I was referring to some of the totally brain dead negativism that I have seen on this site not anything to do with you. Edited October 17, 2007 by habs rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 oh come on now don't be so positive, are you sure we shouldn't fire carbo fire gainey shoot gillette and trade everybody? Now that is sarcasm. I agree totally with what you said except that Bob does not have any more rebuilding time he needs to make a move now and before xmas. This team has huge upside and potential but they need a goal scorer. It will change the team totally from a close but no cigar to a proven winner. of course that is just my opinion. B) by the way I was referring to some of the totally brain dead negativism that I have seen on this site not anything to do with you. Not sure I see what the rush is...for instance, it would be potentially fatal to move Huet before we've seen Price playing very well for a consistent stretch of time. He is one prospect we cannot afford to f*ck up. And also, Halak had better have found his game before you make that move, too. So to me, Huet should stick around for as long as possible. A move before Christmas - at least one involving Huet - would be a pointless risk in my books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quebecois Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Those types of games piss me off to no end, all our players seem snakebit though. At least this can't last, we play like that and we'll win 90% of the games in this league. Tough couple of games coming up too, ill be happy with 3 of 4 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Kovalev to Calgary for Tanguay. That's the buzz in Montreal now. The mediatic pressure's on for Gainey to make a move already. That's what, 5 games into an 82 games season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Kovalev to Calgary for Tanguay. Tanguay? Yeah...he's the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punkned Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Tanguay is a point per game player, so that's a better production than Kovy's. The problem is that Tanguay is a playmaker. Never scored 30 goals in the NHL. If we're to lose Kovalev, then let's get a scoring wigner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Tanguay? Yeah...he's the answer. Well... He's been a point-per-game player for the past 3 years. Even Koivu can't say that. So in a way... well... he could be the answer. Thing is, he's a LW and commands 5M$ per season. The real question is: where did this rumor came from?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Son of a. That sux0rd. Well at least Habs got 1 point, but I'm more pissed off because Florida got 2. I would send out the exact same lineup they did tonight and say do it again boys. There is no reason the Habs could not have saved his ass by killing it off. If they killed it you would be saying Komi played a really strong game. It was a bad penalty to take thats for sure. However I agree that I wouldnt bench him for it, not yet anyway. Personally I'd sit Brisbois!! Wasnt it Brisbois who was looking the other way when the tieing goal was scored? Not to mention at least 2 other Defenisive gaffs - Zednick breakaway, + play he points with his stick like he knows whats going on then he's basically being a screen on Huet and the shot goes through his legs. Brisbois even had 1 Offensive gaff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I do not believe Bob will ever make a huge trade. I'm talking something like the Thornton trade. In my opinion Bob (and Carbo) are safe people. Big trades involve big risks and Bob is not a risk taker. We might see a trade but it won't be anything huge. Our only hope is a UFA or for a youngster to really shine. Many of you suggest trading Ryder and maybe Huet (two UFAs) to get an impact player. That will not do it. A trade that will change our team would involve people like Plekanec, Komisarek, Higgins or Markov. We can't expect a Thornton calibre player in exchange for our leftovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Well... He's been a point-per-game player for the past 3 years. Even Koivu can't say that. So in a way... well... he could be the answer. Thing is, he's a LW and commands 5M$ per season. The real question is: where did this rumor came from?! The rumor started in the offseason when Tanguay was in Montreal. We all know players can't go to Montreal without ending up "coming to the Habs" lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 About the game, we dominated them except for one thing very important. Passing the puck. I have three play in mind. - Ryder has 1 feet and no angles, Koivu ten feet from the net all alone sharp angle. - Plek 2-1 with Kovy wide open stick on the ice, Plek shoots in Vokoun body. - Ryder again shoots while Markov all alone drives the net in PP. Honestly we played right but Ryder eager to have his first goal of the year cost us the game. And Bégin could have saved us in the last minute. He is the only player who would dive his face to the puck to prevent a last minute goal in this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Honestly, I can't believe you're saying Ryder cost us the game, Easy. There was so many plays where you could have said "so and so" should have scored. I think it's time to hide the panic button and be happy we played a very good game. There was hitting, and the passes some of the plays between the ryder/koivu/higgins line was beautiful. I for one am encouraged by the game, we didn't win but we took a step in the right direction. Lets be a little positive for once...I know such notions are hard to fathom in habs land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I do not believe Bob will ever make a huge trade. I'm talking something like the Thornton trade. In my opinion Bob (and Carbo) are safe people. Big trades involve big risks and Bob is not a risk taker. We might see a trade but it won't be anything huge. Our only hope is a UFA or for a youngster to really shine. Many of you suggest trading Ryder and maybe Huet (two UFAs) to get an impact player. That will not do it. A trade that will change our team would involve people like Plekanec, Komisarek, Higgins or Markov. We can't expect a Thornton calibre player in exchange for our leftovers. Gainey traded Jarome Iginla for Joe Nieuwendyk? You don't think that was a risk? Dallas won the Cup with Nieuwendyk winning the MVP, but Iginla has been the premier power forward in the league for the last 5 years. That was a HUGE trade, and it was a RISKY trade. If Dallas loses to Buffalo in the Finals that traded blows up in his face. High risk, High reward. It paid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I think last night's game really boiled down to finish. The team played really well, but it just didn't put the puck in the net, despite having so many chances to do so. And once that hits a team, it becomes easy for the other to draw motivation from their goalie's play and get back in it...All the top-six forwards looked good, but the finish just wasn't there. In addition, Kostopoulous looked good throwing the hits and dropping the gloves. Hopefully they carry their play into Ottawa for the full 60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Was tough to bury the puck, basically the panthers collapsed around their red hot goalie, that's a tough nut to crack if the goalie isn't giving anything up. It's hard to drive the net when there's 4 opposition parked there, likewise its hard to setup good 1 timers or throw pucks through the crease if theyre packing the crease/slot. The habs did what they could, threw a lot of rubber at Vokoun, but never got the break they needed since Vokoun was swallowing all the rebounds. The Panthers got EXTREMELY lucky to win this one, Their strategy of collapsing in their zone and leaning on their goalie to stop everything for 50 minutes of the game will not work 95% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmethead Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 You guys are hilarious. Whoever thinks that this team is not performing, or hasn't shown signs of major fundamental improvement as compared to the past decade is sniffing glue. We FINALLY have a nucleus comparable to teams that we have been envying since 1995. Do not underestimate the hockey sense, general capability and heart of the players of this team. I honestly believe that the mettal of most of our players under 25 (Higgins, Komi, Pleks, Chipchura and Price to name a few) is at least at par with that of that of Carbonneau, Skrugland, McPhee, Lemieux, Chelios and Roy. The difference is that the 1986 team was surrounded and literally broken in by Future Hall of Famers - Gainey and Robinson and others. Unfortunately, this 2007-2008 team isn't. Hence, these players need time to create their own identity. They need to find the way to win. The effort is there, and as time goes by, you will see this effort become more and more consistant. With this consistancy will come confidence. And with the confidence will come the results. And because this is a young team, with a deep farmteam (thank you Andre Savard and Bob Gainey) there will be a spillover effect through the system. Gainey is well aware of what this team needs. He is very reluctant to pull the trigger on a move that would bear our cupboard. Why you ask? Cause he (directly and indirectly) has been grooming these players to become leaders; to become winners. He knows their potential, and that's what worries him. You can either mortgage part of your future for someone who's gonna "possibly" help you in the short term, or be a little more patient and wait things out. Some people mentioned Gainey's trade of Iginla for Nieuendyk that brought Dallas the cup. Agreed, however there is one glaring difference between the NHL of then and now. Back then, trading prospects for primetime players would have the opportunity cost of losing a prospect. THAT'S IT! Today, not only do you risk losing a prospect(s) but you also risk putting your team in an uncompetitive position for many many years to come. Why? Cause of the salary cap. Fans have been kicking and screaming about the Habs inability to lure expensive UFA's over the past two summers. I am personally glad we haven't been able to. Any deal that sucks out over 20% of your cap space is LETHAL! Philly (was and is still) playing russian roulette with Briere. And all looks fine and dandy right now, and yes he MIGHT perform for them throughout the course of the year, but he has to do that CONSISTANTLY for the duration of his contract. If he doesn't - ur @#$#^*!!! Cause I'll bet you my last souvlaki that no one will want to take a risk on him at a cap hit of +8million a year. Oh, and for every one Briere there is a Brian McCabe or Zdeno Chara (you get the picture). That being said, I believe Gainey will make a bold move. It might be at the tradedeadline, it might be at the draft, it might be this afternoon. Bottom line is he is in full control of this team and overall we should all be very satisfied with his work. That doesn't mean that he shouldn't be critisized or that every move he make makes sense (Souray SHOULD HAVE BEEN DEALT!) but overall he has turned this team around. Trade Huet??? In my opinion, he should sign him ASAP. (On a side note - just wanted to commend Chicoutimi Cuccumber, Wamsley01, Tokyohabs, JMMR, JLPilon, saskhab and Mathieu30 for the thought they put in their posts. Although I don't write here often, I visit the site at least 5 times a day and honnestly look forward to your thoughts. Sorry to those whom I haven't mentioned.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 You guys are hilarious. Whoever thinks that this team is not performing, or hasn't shown signs of major fundamental improvement as compared to the past decade is sniffing glue. Gainey is well aware of what this team needs. He is very reluctant to pull the trigger on a move that would bear our cupboard. Why you ask? Cause he (directly and indirectly) has been grooming these players to become leaders; to become winners. He knows their potential, and that's what worries him. You can either mortgage part of your future for someone who's gonna "possibly" help you in the short term, or be a little more patient and wait things out. Some people mentioned Gainey's trade of Iginla for Nieuendyk that brought Dallas the cup. Agreed, however there is one glaring difference between the NHL of then and now. Back then, trading prospects for primetime players would have the opportunity cost of losing a prospect. THAT'S IT! Today, not only do you risk losing a prospect(s) but you also risk putting your team in an uncompetitive position for many many years to come. Why? Cause of the salary cap. Fans have been kicking and screaming about the Habs inability to lure expensive UFA's over the past two summers. I am personally glad we haven't been able to. Any deal that sucks out over 20% of your cap space is LETHAL! Philly (was and is still) playing russian roulette with Briere. And all looks fine and dandy right now, and yes he MIGHT perform for them throughout the course of the year, but he has to do that CONSISTANTLY for the duration of his contract. If he doesn't - ur @#$#^*!!! Cause I'll bet you my last souvlaki that no one will want to take a risk on him at a cap hit of +8million a year. Oh, and for every one Briere there is a Brian McCabe or Zdeno Chara (you get the picture). Trade Huet??? In my opinion, he should sign him ASAP. I don't disagree that over the past 4 years we've watched this team improve and become loaded with future potential. The farm system is full, the team is performing with young players still reaching for their talent ceilings, etc. However, let's keep in mind they did not make the playoffs last year and that's NOT good enough. I'm not advocating they blow it up and pull a Leafs move trading youth for old vets...far from it...just pointing out that last season was simply not good enough for what should be the standard for any organization. Some fans just don't want to admit that staying the course is the right prescription. I completely disagree that all you lost a few years ago was "a prospect. That's it"...as compared to today where you hamstring your team for years. That was partially true for SOME of the wealthier clubs who were free spenders...about 4-5 clubs out of 30 could lay some claim to that philosophy...BUT look where that attitude got the Leafs and Rangers over the past decade...nowhere. Prospects have ALWAYS(okay, the past 25 years) been the lifeblood of building a dynasty that lasts for more then 2 years. Having said that why can't an organization 12-18 prospects deep with guys who have legit shots as NHL regulars, AND has 3-4 million in cap space, AND has a wealth of goalies and depth d-men make a deal to improve both short and long term? Remember these young players won't be taking any significant cap space for 3-4 years...so why would trading for a good, expensive veteran with 2-3 years left on a deal be a bad thing? I'm not talking about dealing for the sake of it...but if the shoe fits then make the deal. Their contract would be up right when our young players would be getting bigger pay increases so it would work out perfectly. The Habs could trade 3-4 prospects and absorb the loss without hurting the team short or long term...they have that many. And, of course, you have to trust the guys who drafted, and are developing them, to choose the right ones to look at including in any deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Why were Brisebois, Chipchura, and Dandenault on the ice with the game on the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Why were Brisebois, Chipchura, and Dandenault on the ice with the game on the line? Good question. Guy...can you please answer this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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