Understanding and planning for the future puts Habs #1

[REV-G]

Looking down the road into the future the Canadiens may now be the best prepared and have the most solid foundation to build on than any other team in the NHL. I think there are a number of reasons.

First Gainey, either by luck or most likely by understanding the post lockout NHL better than most has gone in the right direction, which some teams and GM's seem only to be understanding now, a few years and many player decisons too late [too many expensive veterans, huge, unmovable contracts and no movement clauses].

He has built, and continues to build, a top ranked scouting department, especially with their recent addition courtesy of the Ottawa Senators. If I'm correct the cap does not include the scouting department so teams can spend as much money as they want in those areas. Which, given the importance now of developing young players that you've drafted yourself, is the absolute smart place to spend money and build a great team in the scouting department.

The proof is what has happened this year. The Canadiens have surprised a lot of people, and moved ahead of teams that they were close to last year, in part because of the improved play of Kovalev and Markov but also because their supporting cast of young players that they have developed have stepped up and played a huge role. They have some really good drafted prospects in Junior or US schools and I think they have all this years draft picks still in place. It seems like we are positioned to move into and stay with the upper level teams in the NHL.

The good news is this isn't just a lucky year or a fluke. We are where we are because of solid structure at the top, an excellent scouting department and very good young players who are stepping up and making a difference. We have understood the future and prepared for it and we're going to see the results for many years.

Edited February 18, 2008 by REV-G

[simonus]

I like the sentiment, but paragraphs would be really helpful

[REV-G]

I like the sentiment, but paragraphs would be really helpful

Agreed!

[simonus]

ahhh... much better.

I think Montreal is not the only team in the NHL that has realized the value of scouting and development in the cap age, but BG certainly has operated very well in the system. There will always be errors or perceived errors - selling ribeiro at his lowest market point, leaving Hainsey and Beauchemin on waivers, signing players such as Dandy, Bouillon, and perhaps even Begin to longer K's than appropriate - but many of those missteps become clear only in hindsight, which is at best an imperfect method by which to judge choices. At the time, there were reasonable arguments for almost all of these moves (and some reasonable arguments against).

Overall, BG has managed to put us in an enviable position going forward. While he seems to have gotten lucky recently - the reemergence of Kovalev, the quick maturation of some background players - overall BG has largely operated outside the insane echo-chamber that is Montreal and build a good team. We are in a good cap position going forward. Remember we don't need to become a destination that all top NHLers want to play for - in a cap world that type of desireability is unnecessary. We need only attract a few top players - the rest of the crew is being developed internally.

[Habsfan]

There will always be errors or perceived errors - selling ribeiro at his lowest market point, leaving Hainsey and Beauchemin on waivers, signing players such as Dandy, Bouillon, and perhaps even Begin to longer K's than appropriate

Are you saying that it was a mistake to sign Bégin? I think his average over the 3 years of his contract came out to 1,000,000$. Are you saying that he's not worth it?

I agree about Dandy and Cube. They both got a little too much money for what they bring to the team. Both of them should have gotten between 1.2 and 1.5 million, but it's not like these deals actually had a negative effet on the team.

[simonus]

Are you saying that it was a mistake to sign Bégin? I think his average over the 3 years of his contract came out to 1,000,000$. Are you saying that he's not worth it?

I agree about Dandy and Cube. They both got a little too much money for what they bring to the team. Both of them should have gotten between 1.2 and 1.5 million, but it's not like these deals actually had a negative effet on the team.

Nope. The important part of my statement was the word "perceived." I was saying that not all of BG's moves have been unassailable.

I wasn't talking about money, I was talking about length and roster spot allocation. I said that one could make a reasonable argument that BG erred in signed older role players to longterm contracts. I do not necessarily think that he made an error - but I think most would agree that we would be in a better place right now if Dandenault, for example, were not signed for the following season.

Money wise, paying 1.75 mil to Dandenault and 1.85 mil to Bouillon does affect the team. While Bouillon has played well recently, our D pipeline is already beginning to clog and saving approximately $2 mil in D and bringing up new talent (such as Valentenko) would be nice.

Begin is a great player to have and he is one of my sentimental favourites, but he is essentially a 4th line role player who plays a game that often does not age well. His $1.2 mil salary is fine, I guess, and I doubt we'd want to allocate the minutes (both quality and quantity) he plays to up and comers. That being said, he is now finding his already limited role on the team further limited and he still has a year to go before his term runs out.

Now perhaps BG was unable to retain the services of these players unless he offered a longer contract or perhaps he miscalculated as to the need for them 3-4 years after signing, or maybe it is good that we will have the players in the upcoming season. All that I stated was that reasonable people could disagree.

Edited February 18, 2008 by simonus

[brobin]

I think we need to remember that the Habs have been very lucky this year on the injury front. Ottawa, Philly, Bruins, etc have had some brutal injury problems to deal with. What about Pitts?

Imagine if we lost Pleks or Kovalev for 4 weeks? I think we would be in 8th.

So while I am excited about the team's progress, I think we have a ways to go before we are a real contender. We clearly need more scoring depth. A winger and a number 1 centre is still needed. At the moment, I would replace Koivu if we could lock up a better centre. Pleks is not going anywhere.

While we are solid in net this year, I really hope we can keep a top tandem with a vet like Huet to go with Price. I like having two guys we can count on and since Price is cheap, there is no reason not to have either Huet or a similar vet around for a year or two.

Hopefully Gainey can find some guys to fill in the weak areas over the next year to complement the core he has put together.

[Wamsley01]

I think we need to remember that the Habs have been very lucky this year on the injury front. Ottawa, Philly, Bruins, etc have had some brutal injury problems to deal with. What about Pitts?

Imagine if we lost Pleks or Kovalev for 4 weeks? I think we would be in 8th.

So while I am excited about the team's progress, I think we have a ways to go before we are a real contender. We clearly need more scoring depth. A winger and a number 1 centre is still needed. At the moment, I would replace Koivu if we could lock up a better centre. Pleks is not going anywhere.

While we are solid in net this year, I really hope we can keep a top tandem with a vet like Huet to go with Price. I like having two guys we can count on and since Price is cheap, there is no reason not to have either Huet or a similar vet around for a year or two.

Hopefully Gainey can find some guys to fill in the weak areas over the next year to complement the core he has put together.

But I don't think this topic is about just this season.

Gainey did not lock up a lot of long term deals. When he signed Samsonov it was a short deal, when alot of GMs would have

locked up Huet to a long deal Gainey gave him 2 years.

He retained cap flexibility, he funnelled cash into scouting, he built the foundation and he remained patient with his youth.

He resisted a quick fix at the deadline that could have cost them a Kostitysn, O'Byrne etc and was rewarded this season.

There is no reason to believe that the faucet of young players will turn off, so he will retain the ability to replace high priced

talent with cheaper youth.

He allowed his scouting staff to choose the best player available which resulted in the drafting of Carey Price against

popular opinion.

This blueprint has been out there for 2-3 years, and he is continuing to follow it. The coaching staff was a huge clue as to where we

were headed. He has his franchise goalie, he has a strong top 3 d-men and has a ton of young defensive talent on the way up that will

insulate Price for the next 10 years.

The goal was never a one off attempt, it is a sustained attack over 10 years. The habs are well situated for the future in all aspects.

Edited February 18, 2008 by Wamsley01

[brobin]

But I don't think this topic is about just this season.

Gainey did not lock up a lot of long term deals. When he signed Samsonov it was a short deal, when alot of GMs would have

locked up Huet to a long deal Gainey gave him 2 years.

He retained cap flexibility, he funnelled cash into scouting, he built the foundation and he remained patient with his youth.

He resisted a quick fix at the deadline that could have cost them a Kostitysn, O'Byrne etc and was rewarded this season.

There is no reason to believe that the faucet of young players will turn off, so he will retain the ability to replace high priced

talent with cheaper youth.

He allowed his scouting staff to choose the best player available which resulted in the drafting of Carey Price against

popular opinion.

This blueprint has been out there for 2-3 years, and he is continuing to follow it. The coaching staff was a huge clue as to where we

were headed. He has his franchise goalie, he has a strong top 3 d-men and has a ton of young defensive talent on the way up that will

insulate Price for the next 10 years.

The goal was never a one off attempt, it is a sustained attack over 10 years. The habs are well situated for the future in all aspects.

I am not talking about this season. I am simply suggesting that we are not really a top 4 team yet. If we had injuries (to guys that matter) we could easily be in 8th or lower. So with that in mind, I am suggesting that while I agree with everything you said wrt to "the plan", we are not as far along it as some people think. I bet Gainey is as surprised as any of us that this young team is where they are right now.

We need to get a few more pieces in place, and some more maturity too, before we are going to be a real contender. Look at the Sens. They were clearly the most talented team, but it has taken some brutal dissappointments to really forge them into a contender. If we make the playoffs this year, I won't be surprised if we go out ugly. However, it will be another step in getting the experience we need down the road. We have so many young guys on this team, they are going to need some time in the pressure crucible to go from "talent" to "warrior".

[Wamsley01]

I am not talking about this season. I am simply suggesting that we are not really a top 4 team yet. If we had injuries (to guys that matter) we could easily be in 8th or lower. So with that in mind, I am suggesting that while I agree with everything you said wrt to "the plan", we are not as far along it as some people think. I bet Gainey is as surprised as any of us that this young team is where they are right now.

We need to get a few more pieces in place, and some more maturity too, before we are going to be a real contender. Look at the Sens. They were clearly the most talented team, but it has taken some brutal dissappointments to really forge them into a contender. If we make the playoffs this year, I won't be surprised if we go out ugly. However, it will be another step in getting the experience we need down the road. We have so many young guys on this team, they are going to need some time in the pressure crucible to go from "talent" to "warrior".

I don't think the Habs are Cup contenders. But Buffalo made the leap out of nowhere and made back to back Conference Finals,

Carolina won a Cup out of nowhere and with the East as weak as it is, anything is possible. They have room to go to become consistent contenders.

I would prefer patience over gambling right now. But that is just me.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Wamsley01

[REV-G]

But I don't think this topic is about just this season.

Gainey did not lock up a lot of long term deals. When he signed Samsonov it was a short deal, when alot of GMs would have

locked up Huet to a long deal Gainey gave him 2 years.

He retained cap flexibility, he funnelled cash into scouting, he built the foundation and he remained patient with his youth.

He resisted a quick fix at the deadline that could have cost them a Kostitysn, O'Byrne etc and was rewarded this season.

There is no reason to believe that the faucet of young players will turn off, so he will retain the ability to replace high priced

talent with cheaper youth.

He allowed his scouting staff to choose the best player available which resulted in the drafting of Carey Price against

popular opinion.

This blueprint has been out there for 2-3 years, and he is continuing to follow it. The coaching staff was a huge clue as to where we

were headed. He has his franchise goalie, he has a strong top 3 d-men and has a ton of young defensive talent on the way up that will

insulate Price for the next 10 years.

The goal was never a one off attempt, it is a sustained attack over 10 years. The habs are well situated for the future in all aspects.

You hit it right on the head. That was the point of this thread! NOt this season, but how Gainey has postioned us for the long term, a solid foundation!

[brobin]

I don't think the Habs are Cup contenders. But Buffalo made the leap out of nowhere and made back to back Conference Finals,

Carolina won a Cup out of nowhere and with the East as weak as it is, anything is possible. They have room to go to become consistent contenders.

I would prefer patience over gambling right now. But that is just me.

I also don't like gambling, which is why I don't want to gamble yet on a very promising goalie with only 24 games of experience.

I don't think it is impossible by any means. average teams have made it to the cup final (and even the cup) by playing great at the right time, and by the misfortunate of others. Carolina had a some good gritty experience and every team they faced had serious injury issues. Some leaf fans will suggest that we were lucky that the refs screwed up in 93 and prevented them from getting to the cup final where they would have clearly won the cup. :lol: :lol:

The best team in the league can lose on any given night, and worse, can become a non-contender if they get injuries to the wrong guys. If NJ had Brodeur go down their odds of getting a cup would drop drastically.

However, I do think the habs are on a path to be true cup contenders (all things being equal) in a year or two. The only worry I have is that young players can have setbacks (Higgins this year, Lats probably as well) in the first few years. As you like to say about goalies, we also don't know if these guys are going to be clutch in the playoffs, or disappear. I actually think we have a better chance in the playoffs if we are underdogs so there is no pressure or expectation on these guys. If they are having fun, they will be awesome, imo.

Regardless, at least we have the fun of watching a good young team develop, instead of the perpetual standing still of the pre-Gainey years.

[Wamsley01]

I also don't like gambling, which is why I don't want to gamble yet on a very promising goalie with only 24 games of experience.

I don't think it is impossible by any means. average teams have made it to the cup final (and even the cup) by playing great at the right time, and by the misfortunate of others. Carolina had a some good gritty experience and every team they faced had serious injury issues. Some leaf fans will suggest that we were lucky that the refs screwed up in 93 and prevented them from getting to the cup final where they would have clearly won the cup. :lol: :lol:

The best team in the league can lose on any given night, and worse, can become a non-contender if they get injuries to the wrong guys. If NJ had Brodeur go down their odds of getting a cup would drop drastically.

However, I do think the habs are on a path to be true cup contenders (all things being equal) in a year or two. The only worry I have is that young players can have setbacks (Higgins this year, Lats probably as well) in the first few years. As you like to say about goalies, we also don't know if these guys are going to be clutch in the playoffs, or disappear. I actually think we have a better chance in the playoffs if we are underdogs so there is no pressure or expectation on these guys. If they are having fun, they will be awesome, imo.

Regardless, at least we have the fun of watching a good young team develop, instead of the perpetual standing still of the pre-Gainey years.

It is all about your matter of perspective my friend. I see the gamble in the long term contract, not the ability.

I am more than happy to throw Huet two years, but believe it is not going to happen, so I take the lesser of two evils.

I prefer to roll the dice on Price and Halak, then roll the dice on getting stuck with the contract.

But, that being said, Montreal has had some magical runs in their history, so I will enjoy this run, hope they continue to let the

youth grow, and pray for a legendary run by the Golden Goalie. It maybe unrealistic, but so were the 71, 84 and 86 runs.

Dare to dream baby, dare to dream

[tokyohabs]

I don't think the Habs are Cup contenders. But Buffalo made the leap out of nowhere and made back to back Conference Finals,

Carolina won a Cup out of nowhere and with the East as weak as it is, anything is possible. They have room to go to become consistent contenders.

I would prefer patience over gambling right now. But that is just me.

Carolina cheated, Ward notwithstanding.

Thank God Gainey is our GM. It is in almost all followers of the Habs - media, fans, whoever - to panic after two straight 1-goal games and yell "Hossa! We need Hossa!" (I plead guilty). As Simonus pointed out, he has excelled in somehow shutting himself away from the echo chamber.

What I find remarkable about him is his perception of overall matters. Example, two or three weeks ago he was suggesting that the Habs possibly needed only small g (faceoff-savvy ctr); many criticised him, saying we had to roll the dice big-time to contend. Anyone criticising now?

Anyway, like Brobin says, sure better than the wheel-spinning years previous to BG. I've never been as interested in the minor league team or drafts as recently; good looking D depth and in goal as well; some exciting young players rounding out to form; others developing, with some strong vet leadership; life is much better than looking up at 8th place with sad-dog eyes wishing if only we had won the Crosby sweepstakes / LeCavalier / etc etc etc...

Edited February 19, 2008 by tokyohabs

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Gainey isn't perfect, but we should still thank the good Lord for every single day he comes to work. He IS the ideal GM for THIS franchise. He ignores all the B.S. and has what appears to be an unsurpassed mind when it comes to understanding the game on the ice. Practically everything he says publicly strikes me as light years ahead of 99.9% of media and 'expert' commentaries (remember his famous 'imbalance' remark last season, that the team had to learn to play sound hockey before he'd go adding big pieces? Sage stuff, that). The things Gainey has that most others (including most other GMs) don't are (1) thirty years of experience as a pivotal figure on winning teams (2) a truly keen mind, the mind that made him the best defensive player in history and (3) absolute ice-water in the veins and an unbelievable level of patience. He also appears to be able to apply these virtues convincingly at crucial junctures, e.g., his long conversation with Kovalev this summer.

The downsides? Perhaps a bit too much reluctance to take a risk. (You DO get the sense that it's always going to be a Brian Burke type ahead of him when it comes to bold moves like acquiring a Pronger). Also, I'd like to see a little more communication with fans, as, say, Dave Nonis does by going on the radio weekly in Vancouver. But basically I am more and more convinced that Gainey is well-positioned to go down in the long run as one of the great Montreal Canadiens GMs, not too far from Selke and Pollock (taking context into account). He is most like Selke in that he has taken a franchise is total disarray and mediocrity and patiently rebuilt it up into (potentially, at this point) an enduring NHL power.

Long may he reign!