lazy26 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/rangers/arc...e_to_now_a.html They say Gomez is a 2nd or 3rd line centre with 1st line salary & responsibilities. The writer sounds just a little bit bitter though, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Exactly, he still led the Rangers in scoring if i'm not mistaken. Says alot about the rest of the roster. Kovalev led the habs, he underacieved all year but fans and posters still praise that guy as an elite player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Gomez is a more than decent player, fast, good vision, doesn't stop skating, excellent passer. Poor defensively, doesn't hit, doesn't or won't shoot, lives and dies by his wingers' ability to finish. In a system like the Devils, where all centres can be first or fourth line, he is a first line ctr. In nearly every other, like for example the Rags, he is clearly a second line ctr. Not to say he can't play: he can, and he is better than Koivu with more years ahead; but he is not an elite 1st-line centre. His fault or not, he carries the pricetag with him, and he just ain't worth it. So as for the trade, it looks lopsided as it was a contract the Rags dreamed of unloading...dreams come true sometimes. I have seen Kovalev take a game over and dominate it. We all have. I have never seen Gomez do the same (admittedly watched him much less). I hope he is phenomenal for us. I am 100% for culture change, having repeatedly begged for change, but never for change's sake, which is what this feels like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/rangers/arc...e_to_now_a.html They say Gomez is a 2nd or 3rd line center with 1st line salary & responsibilities. that's a blog. give me 2 minutes, I'll blog and say Gomez is the best center in the universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 that's a blog. give me 2 minutes, I'll blog and say Gomez is the best center in the universe. So anything out of Francois Gagnon or Mathias Brunet's blogs are worthless? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 nah. but a blog is not always filled with professional journalism. is this guy a professional blogger? there are blogs on RDS which aren't worth the (virtual) paper they are written on. ------------ I however struggle to rationalize losing BOTH McDo and Valetenko... weren't they arguably 1 and 2 in our prospect D depth? Yes we're still deep... but why that much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 So anything out of Francois Gagnon or Mathias Brunet's blogs are worthless? only if they agree with you............just kidding :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I however struggle to rationalize losing BOTH McDo and Valetenko... weren't they arguably 1 and 2 in our prospect D depth? Yes we're still deep... but why that much? Someone told Gainey to win NOW or else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Valentenko will never play in NA. He needs the money to help his family. He is no better talent wise then O'Byrne. McD hurts. With Subban, Weber i believe makes the team next year they are ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Well, I'm much less perturbed by this trade than by the insanely hostile fan reaction. More specifically, I'm worried that Gomez will be publicly crucified for being the key cog in a deal hated by Habs fans, who to my mind are overreacting. That's all we need - our new #1 C to be booed out of the rink and constantly attacked for making a big salary. And that would, of course, further compound the received image of Montreal as a horrible place to play, as well as proving hugely costly to the club if it destroys Gomez's confidence. The sad part is that Gomez is classic Montreal Canadiens material: lightning fast, talented, great vision, pure skill, proven winner. Viewed objectively, he would seem to have 'fan favourite' written all over him. If fans can forget about the salary (which has yet to damage us in any way) and the loss of Guaranteed-10-Time-Norris-Trophy-Winner Ryan McDonagh, they will likely really enjoy having Gomez. Those who say he represents only a minor upgrade on Koivu aren't making much of an argument in my book. Koivu in his prime was a damned good player (despite the irrational hatred directed his way in some circles). The trouble, for me, has never been Koivu per se, but rather his decline. He had to be replaced. Now he is replaced, by a younger, faster, bigger player with comparable, perhaps better, skills. McDonagh was unquestionably a high price to pay. But apart from that, I still haven't heard any response to my suggestion that the weight of the Gomez contract is partially offset by savings on Higgins's salary (especially considering that he'll be a UFA next year, due for a big raise no matter how he performs). As for those angry that Gainey made the deal before July 1, think about it - Sather probably made it clear that we would ONLY trade Gomez before July 1, because the major point of that trade from his perspective was opening up cap space to sign UFAs while getting some sort of value back in hockey terms. Gainey made his move at the only sensible time; otherwise he'd have lost Gomez. Again, not trying to say this was some coup by Bob. I just can't see the enormous anger being spewed at this deal, that's all. And it demoralizes me to read such negativity that seems out of all proportion with the actual matter at hand. Get a grip, Montreal fans! And for God's sake, let's welcome Scott Gomez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Valentenko will never play in NA. He needs the money to help his family. He is no better talent wise then O'Byrne. McD hurts. With Subban, Weber i believe makes the team next year they are ok. If you are right about your assessment, I can live with it. McD and Russian expat version of O'Byrne sounds better than Valentenko, with all the expectations that we had.. btw, do you guys think that O'Byrne can finally stop sucking and step into Komi's shoes (wishful thinking) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I agree with you. I think we are the minorty though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Well, I'm much less perturbed by this trade than by the insanely hostile fan reaction. More specifically, I'm worried that Gomez will be publicly crucified for being the key cog in a deal hated by Habs fans, who to my mind are overreacting. That's all we need - our new #1 C to be booed out of the rink and constantly attacked for making a big salary. And that would, of course, further compound the received image of Montreal as a horrible place to play, as well as proving hugely costly to the club if it destroys Gomez's confidence. The sad part is that Gomez is classic Montreal Canadiens material: lightning fast, talented, great vision, pure skill, proven winner. Viewed objectively, he would seem to have 'fan favourite' written all over him. If fans can forget about the salary (which has yet to damage us in any way) and the loss of Guaranteed-10-Time-Norris-Trophy-Winner Ryan McDonagh, they will likely really enjoy having Gomez. Those who say he represents only a minor upgrade on Koivu aren't making much of an argument in my book. Koivu in his prime was a damned good player (despite the irrational hatred directed his way in some circles). The trouble, for me, has never been Koivu per se, but rather his decline. He had to be replaced. Now he is replaced, by a younger, faster, bigger player with comparable, perhaps better, skills. McDonagh was unquestionably a high price to pay. But apart from that, I still haven't heard any response to my suggestion that the weight of the Gomez contract is partially offset by savings on Higgins's salary (especially considering that he'll be a UFA next year, due for a big raise no matter how he performs). As for those angry that Gainey made the deal before July 1, think about it - Sather probably made it clear that we would ONLY trade Gomez before July 1, because the major point of that trade from his perspective was opening up cap space to sign UFAs while getting some sort of value back in hockey terms. Gainey made his move at the only sensible time; otherwise he'd have lost Gomez. Again, not trying to say this was some coup by Bob. I just can't see the enormous anger being spewed at this deal, that's all. And it demoralizes me to read such negativity that seems out of all proportion with the actual matter at hand. Get a grip, Montreal fans! And for God's sake, let's welcome Scott Gomez. yeah, no worry. Gomez is our best center since Pierre Turgeon or Vinnie Damphousse (although they both used to score 95 pts... in a league where 95 pts was 20th scorer) all things equal, 7.3M is not any worse than Koivu's 4.5M in 2000 (inflation, etc taken into account) I just hope really strongly that Gainey will achieve to find a good match on the UFA market in 52 minutes to give a sniper to Gomez. IF we have a good 1-2 punch, we'll barely remember who McDo was going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I get a kick out of some fans, the other day Louis Leblanc was a big centre at 5'11 170-175 lbs. Now Gomez iz a smurf at 6.0 200 lbs. I guess it just depends on the argument you want to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I agree with you. I think we are the minorty though Salary aside, Higgins is CLEARLY not enough to land Gomez. Salary wise, IF the Rags had been in trouble, they wouldn't have dumped Gomez, they would have bought out Redden. We had to add something to Higgs. If McD was the only solution... it's expensive, but it's WAY less expensive than Markov and Price for Lecavalier (rumoured cost) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 No, O'Byrne just doesn't haver the speed or agility to become a regular player. He is solid in the AHL and maybe a #7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I think, CC, part of the negativity is the other talent available out there - as far as we the fans know about, not privy to insider info. For example the Sedins, maybe Marleau in a trade, maybe Lecavalier (longshot but an impact on our psyche), Hossa, Gaborik, Havlat, Cammalleri, etc. All superior talents than Scott Gomez. We are, it seems, banking very heavily on this one player, who is not in a superstar elite level by any stretch. He is a good player, a nice player, a guy you want on the second line at 4, maybe 5.5 m per. Higgins might very well have not been worth the raise he would have sought; Gomez is assuredly, from every quarter, not worth his current contract; and it isn't a contract like Dandy carried, this guy is the highest paid habs ever. I hope he rips it up with us, that he plays with a huge chip on his shoulder and is a demon, be a ppg player and a real leader. I'll cheer him as much as anyone come opening night. But guys like this are lightning rods, and the electrical storms that whip up around the Bell Centre are something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I think, CC, part of the negativity is the other talent available out there - as far as we the fans know about, not privy to insider info. For example the Sedins, maybe Marleau in a trade, maybe Lecavalier (longshot but an impact on our psyche), Hossa, Gaborik, Havlat, Cammalleri, etc. All superior talents than Scott Gomez. We are, it seems, banking very heavily on this one player, who is not in a superstar elite level by any stretch. He is a good player, a nice player, a guy you want on the second line at 4, maybe 5.5 m per. Higgins might very well have not been worth the raise he would have sought; Gomez is assuredly, from every quarter, not worth his current contract; and it isn't a contract like Dandy carried, this guy is the highest paid habs ever. I hope he rips it up with us, that he plays with a huge chip on his shoulder and is a demon, be a ppg player and a real leader. I'll cheer him as much as anyone come opening night. But guys like this are lightning rods, and the electrical storms that whip up around the Bell Centre are something else. what about CENTER? also, IMO, Gainey tried for Lecav, Marleau, Arnott and who else... always going with that package... but it never worked and Markov always came into the discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I was talking about the general hype around the talent available, not the specific needs of the Habs. It is about the mood swing from seeing these names in the press every moment to getting saddled with Scott Gomez and, fair or not, his contract. Btw, you know that SJ wanted Markov in a Marleau deal? Fancy that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I was talking about the general hype around the talent available, not the specific needs of the Habs. It is about the mood swing from seeing these names in the press every moment to getting saddled with Scott Gomez and, fair or not, his contract. Btw, you know that SJ wanted Markov in a Marleau deal? Fancy that. No, I just know that if they didn't get a bigger (physically) center than Gomez, it's because he wasn't available or required too much. What is too much? Markov, Price... that's it. nothing else on our team is "too much". what about CENTER? also, IMO, Gainey tried for Lecav, Marleau, Arnott and who else... always going with that package... but it never worked and Markov always came into the discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I get a kick out of some fans, the other day Louis Leblanc was a big centre at 5'11 170-175 lbs. Now Gomez iz a smurf at 6.0 200 lbs. I guess it just depends on the argument you want to make. You got your numbers mixed up. Leblanc is 6-0, 178 & just 18. If you've seen his bear of a father, you'd also expect him to reach 6-2 and 200+ lbs by the time he's done growing up. Gomez is 5-11 & 200 & done growing. He's smaller than Higgins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 But bigger then the rest of the centers. Koivu, Pleks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makh2o Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 how else would you get a first line centreman???? higgins a two way 3rd liner, valentenko doesnt even play in this continent and the third one is a bum as well! first pick for a first pick thats what it was Mcdonagh a bum? Maybe you should watch some hockey before commenting on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 But bigger then the rest of the centers. Koivu, Pleks stronger. 200lbs for a 5'11" remember how Cube could pummel bigger guys? not sure Gomez can pummel anyone, but he can sure outskate most?! Mcdonagh a bum? Maybe you should watch some hockey before commenting on it. turn this over to you. how many time did you see him play? I agree that he's certainly not a bum... but your comment is weird, unless you have actually seen him play a couple of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 stronger. 200lbs for a 5'11" remember how Cube could pummel bigger guys? not sure Gomez can pummel anyone, but he can sure outskate most?! Well Gomez popped Kovalchuk and made him bleed: Speaking of which, wouldnt it be great to trade for Kovalchuk to play with Gomez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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