Habs vs Sens...

[BCHabnut]

Dude, you guys gotta rage like I just did. It feels awesome.

[brobin]

Losing is good. Throw the season. Buy out all the bums, oompa loompas, Alcoholic headcase goalies, no good 4th line prospects, useless matrix defensemen, no heart europeans, the stick boy, everybody. Bring up the Cincinati cyclones and throw the next 3 years. Screw it. Fire timmons and gainey and get some CANADIAN OHL, QMJHL,WHL, elite big beautiful handed players.

I thought we just did that.. I guess we should do it again... lol

[bar]

Believe me...I want to rage...I feel so frustrated watching this team...I so much want the young guys to do something. I flipped to the leaf game during a break only to see Grabsac fly past some wingers and get a scoring chance and gave me such a rage headache!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Losing is good. Throw the season. Buy out all the bums, oompa loompas, Alcoholic headcase goalies, no good 4th line prospects, useless matrix defensemen, no heart europeans, the stick boy, everybody. Bring up the Cincinati cyclones and throw the next 3 years. Screw it. Fire timmons and gainey and get some CANADIAN OHL, QMJHL,WHL, elite big beautiful handed players.

:nono:

However, I AM pretty down about this. I *thought* we've have a spirited, competitive team, not a contender but a potential spoiler. Poof, out goes Markov. Out goes everything.

I have suffered for more than a decade with this team. I'm not sure I have it in me to suffer another decade.

Right now I want Bob to make another deal. Package Spacek, try to get a top-6 forward (Frolov?). Then try to get Cam Barker, some promising young D like that who can actually play. I'm probably not thinking rationally, but this D just isn't good enough without Markov and it's hurting our forwards. That 5 on 3 was a sorry display of mediocre decision-making from the points. UGH.

We need wins. We need 'em soon. Are the Molsons willing to spend to the cap on a bottom-feeding team? Cripes, Bob could be gone by Christmas if this keeps up.

Edited October 18, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Wamsley01]

All true. But right now we're 'finding ways to lose.' If that doesn't change soon it won't matter what we do.

This was the danger of the moves this summer. They are now in a win now or you are ######ed mode.

If you don't win now? Then what? You are either selling today or you are selling the future.

The Leafs suck as well, but their fanbase knows that if the suck right now they still have hopes for

Kessel, Gustavsson, Kadri, Tlusty, Stallberg etc. So they are selling the future.

Realizing that the core is wrapped up in Gomez, Cammallari, Markov and Gionta to the tune of $24M or

half the cap and the stalled progression of Latendresse, Lapierre, D'Agostini etc and the fear of the same

thing with Subban, Weber and Price, it is a scary thought to think that they may not improve.

The fact is, with Markov out, you can't really figure out what this team is. I am not going to rant, judge or

complain until the 10 game mark. They have Atl, NYI and the NYR over the next week, if they drop all 3

then it is time to really panic.

[KoZed]

There's a potential puck moving D in Berg in the minors, me personally I'd bring up Subban.

Christ, this is the worst time to bring up a kid. He'll be hailed as the franchise's savior.

[brobin]

I will always be a habs fan.. but I am starting to think I should spend more time watching Washington and Pitts... at least I will see elite players and great teams...

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

This was the danger of the moves this summer. They are now in a win now or you are ######ed mode.

If you don't win now? Then what? You are either selling today or you are selling the future.

The Leafs suck as well, but their fanbase knows that if the suck right now they still have hopes for

Kessel, Gustavsson, Kadri, Tlusty, Stallberg etc. So they are selling the future.

Realizing that the core is wrapped up in Gomez, Cammallari, Markov and Gionta to the tune of $24M or

half the cap and the stalled progression of Latendresse, Lapierre, D'Agostini etc and the fear of the same

thing with Subban, Weber and Price, it is a scary thought to think that they may not improve.

The fact is, with Markov out, you can't really figure out what this team is. I am not going to rant, judge or

complain until the 10 game mark. They have Atl, NYI and the NYR over the next week, if they drop all 3

then it is time to really panic.

IMHO, the Achilles' Heel in the short term is Spacek, who was brought in to back up Markov and ease the pains should Markov get hurt or falter. That decision looks like a total miscalculation at this point - he seems to be a #4 D-man at best - and it might be worth pulling the trigger, even this early on, to try to fix that. I'd rather lose with a Cam Barker who at least has youth in his favour than a Jaroslav Spacek. By the way, he is injury prone; wait until HE gets hurt.

You're right, though. If they blow the next three, HEAD FOR THE EXITS.

[Habsy]

I will always be a habs fan.. but I am starting to think I should spend more time watching Washington and Pitts... at least I will see elite players and great teams...

Ya, I'm watching Yankees baseball. An organization we used to be compared to, not anymore.

[Wamsley01]

:nono:

However, I AM pretty down about this. I *thought* we've have a spirited, competitive team, not a contender but a potential spoiler. Poof, out goes Markov. Out goes everything.

I have suffered for more than a decade with this team. I'm not sure I have it in me to suffer another decade.

Right now I want Bob to make another deal. Package Spacek, try to get a top-6 forward (Frolov?). Then try to get Cam Barker, some promising young D like that who can actually play. I'm probably not thinking rationally, but this D just isn't good enough without Markov and it's hurting our forwards. That 5 on 3 was a sorry display of mediocre decision-making from the points. UGH.

We need wins. We need 'em soon. Are the Molsons willing to spend to the cap on a bottom-feeding team? Cripes, Bob could be gone by Christmas if this keeps up.

Everybody before the season agreed that this team would take time to gel, AND THAT WAS WITH Markov!

If Gainey makes a panic trade, then it is time for him to go. If he has the stones to blow out the core and hire a new coach

and then he makes a deal after 10 games, then I have no respect for him anymore. I want a GM who has long term vision and

for 5 years I thought Gainey was that guy, my confidence in that has waned over the last 6 months.

He needs to give this 20 games before making a decision like that. If a deal comes up that is too good to be true, you pull the trigger,

but he really needs to establish what he has before course correcting AGAIN.

I didn't like the moves initially on instinct, but I want to see it play out. I don't like what I have seen so far. I also don't like

how Price is going to get nailed in the media about his statistics when I have seen maybe 2 goals that were remotely his fault.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Wamsley01

[Wamsley01]

Ya, I'm watching Yankees baseball. An organization we used to be compared to, not anymore.

$200M payrolls have the ability to alter that perception.

[bar]

Ya, I'm watching Yankees baseball. An organization we used to be compared to, not anymore.

Oh come on....the yankees buy a team every year, lets see them compete in a true cap system, but thats neither here nor there.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Everybody before the season agreed that this team would take time to gel, AND THAT WAS WITH Markov!

If Gainey makes a panic trade, then it is time for him to go. If he has the stones to blow out the core and hire a new coach

and then he makes a deal after 10 games, then I have no respect for him anymore. I want a GM who has long term vision and

for 5 years I thought Gainey was that guy, my confidence in that has waned in that over the last 6 months.

I didn't like the moves initially on instinct, but I want to see it play out. I don't like what I have seen so far. I also don't like

how Price is going to get nailed in the media about his statistics when I have seen maybe 2 goals that were remotely his fault.

I think Gainey HAD long-term vision. But the much-heralded young guns turned out to be third-liners and fifth defencemen, every last one of them. That put him in the desperate position of trying to replace the decaying, losing core by free agency. And frankly, those guys AREN'T the problem so far, whatever their long-term implications may be.

I think you can defend a trade based on the catastrophic X-factor of a grave, long-term injury to Markov. Many teams *would* pull the trigger under those circumstances, regardless of what happened in the summer. But not if the trade involves dealing away young players with real (as opposed to more hypothetical) potential or high picks. This is why I bring up the idea of trading Spacek. It would be embarassing, but not if it was part of a wider strategy to get younger at D and better at forward. Anyway, like I say, I'm so demoralized at this moment that I probably will regret saying this in the morning.

[Habsy]

Oh come on....the yankees buy a team every year, lets see them compete in a true cap system, but thats neither here nor there.

you got me, I was looking at mystique, legend, that sorta drivel...

[KoZed]

All true. But right now we're 'finding ways to lose.' If that doesn't change soon it won't matter what we do.

I'm starting to think that Martin scared the young players in training camp. All our young guys look stressed out, they dont play with any flow you see from players who are confident (Plekanec is a good example).

But guys, it was written in the sky that this team would need some time to gel. Like I said, we haven't been outclassed by anyone and could have won all out games except the Vancouver one.

1. The first line are still finding each other. Gomez and Gio have lot of those little practiced plays, but Camm is still trying to figure out how to follow them.
2. The 2nd line lacks a LW. Plex and Kosty are alright, no worries there. Kosty is growing more comfortable in getting back to the RW and using his shot off the wing. But Martin has to figure out what LW will make that line work.
3. Lats and Laps needs to relax, or be separated. They look like Plex last season: guys who have put tons of pressure on themselves and are tensed.
4. The 4th line needs one thing: anyone but Stew and Chips. Martin wants to roll out 4 lines all game long, but it'll never work as long as we carry tourists like those two.

Can't wait for Bergeron to come up and see if he can at least get our PP going.

[Wamsley01]

I think Gainey HAD long-term vision. But the much-heralded young guns turned out to be third-liners and fifth defencemen, every last one of them. That put him in the desperate position of trying to replace the decaying, losing core by free agency. And frankly, those guys AREN'T the problem so far, whatever their long-term implications may be.

I think you can defend a trade based on the catastrophic X-factor of a grave, long-term injury to Markov. Many teams *would* pull the trigger under those circumstances, regardless of what happened in the summer. But not if the trade involves dealing away young players with real (as opposed to more hypothetical) potential or high picks. This is why I bring up the idea of trading Spacek. It would be embarassing, but not if it was part of a wider strategy to get younger at D and better at forward. Anyway, like I say, I'm so demoralized at this moment that I probably will regret saying this in the morning.

I used to believe that, but hindsight being 20/20 I have become confused.

He let Souray walk for nothing, but traded Rivet. He let Streit walk, yet traded Huet. He let Komisarek walk.

He traded Ribeiro for 10 cents on the dollar. He traded Grabovski for 10 cents on the dollar.

In a span of six months I have lost almost all the faith I had in his decision making.

I'm starting to think that Martin scared the young players in training camp. All our young guys look stressed out, they dont play with any flow you see from players who are confident (Plekanec is a good example).

But guys, it was written in the sky that this team would need some time to gel. Like I said, we haven't been outclassed by anyone and could have won all out games except the Vancouver one.

1. The first line are still finding each other. Gomez and Gio have lot of those little practiced plays, but Camm is still trying to figure out how to follow them.

2. The 2nd line lacks a LW. Plex and Kosty are alright, no worries there. Kosty is growing more comfortable in getting back to the RW and using his shot off the wing. But Martin has to figure out what LW will make that line work.
3. Lats and Laps needs to relax, or be separated. They look like Plex last season: guys who have put tons of pressure on themselves and are tensed.
4. The 4th line needs one thing: anyone but Stew and Chips. Martin wants to roll out 4 lines all game long, but it'll never work as long as we carry tourists like those two.

Can't wait for Bergeron to come up and see if he can at least get our PP going.

The LW is named Sergei Kostitsyn. Unfortunately they are teaching him a lesson right now.

[jackp]

I also don't like

how Price is going to get nailed in the media about his statistics when I have seen maybe 2 goals that were remotely his fault.

See that's where we disagree Walmsley. All of the goals tonight were scored on good scoring chances. I admit that. As a matter of fact, the worse goal given up was by the Ottawa goalie.

BUT... how many good scoring chances does an NHL team get in a typical game? Maybe 10 to 15? A good NHL goalie has to stop most of them. Now we out-chanced Ottawa, we out-chanced Colorado, and we out-chanced Edmonton the last 3 games. But we still lost. (On the other hand, you need to score more than 1 goal to win a game - the Ottawa goalie had a lot to do with that, especially in the first period, I suspect.)

I don't know... it's very depressing... are there any good prospects coming up in next June's draft?

[KoZed]

The LW is named Sergei Kostitsyn. Unfortunately they are teaching him a lesson right now.

I dont really mind a little AHL lesson. It's better than dumping him for some finished Finnish defensemen...

Fact is: our prospect depth has grown really thin. Not much in Hamilton except for the 3D's and Maxwell.

[Wamsley01]

See that's where we disagree Walmsley. All of the goals tonight were scored on good scoring chances. I admit that. As a matter of fact, the worse goal given up was by the Ottawa goalie.

BUT... how many good scoring chances does an NHL team get in a typical game? Maybe 10 to 15? A good NHL goalie has to stop most of them. Now we out-chanced Ottawa, we out-chanced Colorado, and we out-chanced Edmonton the last 3 games. But we still lost. (On the other hand, you need to score more than 1 goal to win a game - the Ottawa goalie had a lot to do with that, especially in the first period, I suspect.)

I don't know... it's very depressing... are there any good prospects coming up in next June's draft?

I didn't blame Price for any goals tonight. And Leclaire hardly had to make any miraculous saves.

The Sens cleared almost all of the rebounds and blocked a shit load of shots.

Price has given up 2 questionable goals in my mind ALL YEAR.

[BTH]

I used to believe that, but hindsight being 20/20 I have become confused.

He let Souray walk for nothing, but traded Rivet. He let Streit walk, yet traded Huet. He let Komisarek walk.

He traded Ribeiro for 10 cents on the dollar. He traded Grabovski for 10 cents on the dollar.

In a span of six months I have lost almost all the faith I had in his decision making.

The LW is named Sergei Kostitsyn. Unfortunately they are teaching him a lesson right now.

Grabovski for TOR 2nd (Lang) was not 10 cents on the dollar at all.

I thought keeping Souray and getting Gorges + 1st for Rivet was a decent compromise. We kept Souray (our chances of making the playoffs) but still managed to add some youth to our organization.

I don't know... it's very depressing... are there any good prospects coming up in next June's draft?

Yes, and Boston's getting him.

[Wamsley01]

I dont really mind a little AHL lesson. It's better than dumping him for some finished Finnish defensemen...

Fact is: our prospect depth has grown really thin. Not much in Hamilton except for the 3D's and Maxwell.

Yep, sad. I have never gone from being so optimistic about a teams future to feeling helpless in 18 months.

In 2008 the Habs finished 1st in the East and had a young core with some solid prospects on the farm with a

ton of cap flexibility to acquire a front line talent to replace the aging Kovalev and Koivu.

A year and a half later and the cap flexibility is gone and two major pieces of their young core have been dumped.

Grabovski for TOR 2nd (Lang) was not 10 cents on the dollar at all.

I thought keeping Souray and getting Gorges + 1st for Rivet was a decent compromise. We kept Souray (our chances of making the playoffs) but still managed to add some youth to our organization.

Yes, and Boston's getting him.

Lang is gone. So the Habs dealt Grabovski for 50 games of Lang and a 1st rounder for 60 games of Tanguay.

That is NOT good asset management.

Keeping Souray for a playoff run that would have gained them a couple of home playoff dates is short term thinking.

Just like keeping Komisarek last season.

The inconsistency in dealing Huet when they had a legit Cup shot in 2008, but holding on to Streit is also questionable.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Wamsley01

[jackp]

I didn't blame Price for any goals tonight. And Leclaire hardly had to make any miraculous saves.

The Sens cleared almost all of the rebounds and blocked a shit load of shots.

Price has given up 2 questionable goals in my mind ALL YEAR.

{Sigh} You missed my point completely...

[BTH]

Lang is gone. So the Habs dealt Grabovski for 50 games of Lang and a 1st rounder for 60 games of Tanguay.

That is NOT good asset management.

Keeping Souray for a playoff run that would have gained them a couple of home playoff dates is short term thinking.

Just like keeping Komisarek last season.

The inconsistency in dealing Huet when they had a legit Cup shot in 2008, but holding on to Streit is also questionable.

Gainey intended to re-sign Souray and Komisarek (not sure about Streit). He did not intend to re-sign Rivet or Huet.

IMO Grabovski was worth 50 games of Lang going into a season where we are contenders BUT we could not have known at the time that Lang would suffer such a serious injury, or that we would not re-sign him the following season for cheaper. Lang and Tanguay were our best forwards when they were healthy. It was unfortunate that they got injured, but neither of them had pasts full of significant injuries.

[Habsy]

Yep, sad. I have never gone from being so optimistic about a teams future to feeling helpless in 18 months.

In 2008 the Habs finished 1st in the East and had a young core with some solid prospects on the farm with a

ton of cap flexibility to acquire a front line talent to replace the aging Kovalev and Koivu.

A year and a half later and the cap flexibility is gone and two major pieces of their young core have been dumped.

Lang is gone. So the Habs dealt Grabovski for 50 games of Lang and a 1st rounder for 60 games of Tanguay.

That is NOT good asset management.

Keeping Souray for a playoff run that would have gained them a couple of home playoff dates is short term thinking.

Just like keeping Komisarek last season.

The inconsistency in dealing Huet when they had a legit Cup shot in 2008, but holding on to Streit is also questionable.

With the well documented difficulties we have in getting front line talent, I thought Bob's summer was good. We're younger, more durable, and more "north american". Flexibility wise, the only contact that may be tough to move, if need be, is Gomez.

[Wamsley01]

Gainey intended to re-sign Souray and Komisarek (not sure about Streit). He did not intend to re-sign Rivet or Huet.

IMO Grabovski was worth 50 games of Lang going into a season where we are contenders BUT we could not have known at the time that Lang would suffer such a serious injury, or that we would not re-sign him the following season for cheaper. Lang and Tanguay were our best forwards when they were healthy. It was unfortunate that they got injured, but neither of them had pasts full of significant injuries.

Did he really intend to re-sign them? He had NO IDEA that Komisarek wanted $5M+ in January?

Komisarek re-signed after Gainey had made 3-4 deals, how much of a priority was he?

Souray signed with the Oilers on JULY 12TH! And at $5.4M, not exactly breaking the bank like we assumed he would.

SO I don't buy that he intended to re-sign them.

With the well documented difficulties we have in getting front line talent, I thought Bob's summer was good. We're younger, more durable, and more "north american". Flexibility wise, the only contact that may be tough to move, if need be, is Gomez.

We'll see what happens this summer. There are a LOT of teams who will be up against the cap.

My guess is there will be more Kessel type opportunities out there. Kessel would NEVER have been dealt

for 3 picks if the Bruins were not capped out.