Two observations-Halak and Pouliot

[REV-G]

I've noticed two things about Halak and Pouliot. First Halak. It seems to me that they may be intentionally giving Halak the easier games, playing against teams that are below them in the standings, to boost his trade value coming up to the trade deadline. Carey Price has defintely played against the stronger teams and so his record has not been as good, while Halak seems to have played exclusively against the weaker teams. Not a bad strategy if it brings us a top 6 forward instead of a second rounder.

Second, Pouliot. I've noticed two major differences between Pouliot and the departed Latendresse. I think they both have good shots and hockey sense, but in my books Pouliot's skating and speed is one major difference between the two. The second advantage Pouliot brings is his willingness to drive to the net. Thursday nights goal was an example of him driving hard to the net with the result being a goal. I've noticed that some of the chances Pouliot's had, when he hasn't scored, have come with him heading to the net.

Halak and Pouliot are interesting comparrisons. One, Halak, is playing well to probably get traded to another team, while Pouliot is playing well to try to stay with his new team. I hope they both do incredible.

[BCHabnut]

Halak is the better goalie right now. He is playing confident. I agree that he is playing the weaker teams. In fact, before Christmas, I broke down the stats showing that he has only beat one contender this year. Ottawa I think it was. Are they even a contender? But Halak is still making that save to keep them in. If he is traded, we may be sorry. I wish there was a way to keep Halak , Plek, and Price. I don't know if Sanford would be a good enough backup, and Dejardins (spelling) is too young. But, like someone said before, the team is no good the way it is, so why not make some trades? Halak's value is definitely higher. I still think we need a mobile right handed defenseman more than a top 6 forward. We have two top 6ers out and I realize Max and Dagostini aren't putting up numbers, but they are OK depth guys.

[KEEP26]

price is not really helping his value or hurting it but he needs a new deal at year end and halak playing great might help us in more ways then one..keep prices value down for a new deal and with halak playing great can be trade for a good player..

[nyckdkool]

Desjardins is 24, plenty old to step in and back up CP and challenge him to improve. The dude is on fire in Hamilton and is worthy of being #2 in MTL.

Anyone following PK, wow, this kid is just tearing it up in the AHL, he should be the next in line to called up and get some pt in the bigs, he's 20 or 21 so while he's just a rook, he's not a kid.

Edited January 8, 2010 by nyckdkool

[saskhab]

Desjardins is 24, plenty old to step in and back up CP and challenge him to improve. The dude is on fire in Hamilton and is worthy of being #2 in MTL.

Anyone following PK, wow, this kid is just tearing it up in the AHL, he should be the next in line to called up and get some pt in the bigs, he's 20 or 21 so while he's just a rook, he's not a kid.

You must be young, because 20 years old is a kid, and 24 is not 'plenty old'. That's the age AHL rookies generally are 20, so yes, they are kids in the NHL when they get called up.

[rafikz]

Aren't the Habs starting Halak against bad teams on purpose, in order to make him look good for a trade?

[KEEP26]

Aren't the Habs starting Halak against bad teams on purpose, in order to make him look good for a trade?

thats where i put my money...

[saskhab]

I think Martin's objective is to simply win games.

[Colin]

thats where i put my money...

Rafiks puts his on the top of his head in a brick and stands behind Plex, slowly lowering himself. I think his eyes are crossed behind the glasses.

[JCPetit]

Halak is the better goalie right now. He is playing confident. I agree that he is playing the weaker teams. In fact, before Christmas, I broke down the stats showing that he has only beat one contender this year. Ottawa I think it was. Are they even a contender? But Halak is still making that save to keep them in. If he is traded, we may be sorry. I wish there was a way to keep Halak , Plek, and Price. I don't know if Sanford would be a good enough backup, and Dejardins (spelling) is too young. But, like someone said before, the team is no good the way it is, so why not make some trades? Halak's value is definitely higher. I still think we need a mobile right handed defenseman more than a top 6 forward. We have two top 6ers out and I realize Max and Dagostini aren't putting up numbers, but they are OK depth guys.

Halak is not only playing weaker teams, he usually has better offensive support than Price. That helps quite a bit.

[KEEP26]

Halak is not only playing weaker teams, he usually has better offensive support than Price. That helps quite a bit.

lol their more offensive because we are playing weaker teams

[brobin]

On the other hand, some of those teams are only below us because Halak beat them. If he had lost to them, they would be 8 points above us in the standings! I believe Halak is 8 for 8 against teams below us in the standing, and 4-6 against teams above us. So it is not as cut and dried as "exclusively used on against bad teams.

Halak has also played against a few top teams like Calgary, but I agree it helps his win percentage to play teams we should beat. I personally never look at the win percentages in comparing goalies, I view that as a team stat first and foremost.

That said, Halak wins the games he should win, while we have lost games to some of these bad teams with Price in net. Why can't Price win against these teams more readily? How about because he was not playing very well for about the first 6 weeks of the season! He is certainly playing better now, but his stats reflect the entire season.

People talk about more offensive support for Halak. I agree it is puzzling. I watch every game so I do not agree with the statistic business of "he plays weak team, hence our goals and his wins". There is so much parity in the league right now that you can play a good team and cruise to victory if they take a night off, or get hammered by a weak team if they are pushing and you take the night off.

I have seem Halak win us games where the other team (despite the standings), has severely outplayed us and if not for Halak, we lose. Simple as that. I have also noticed that our team is wiling to play a more wide open style with Halak in net, resulting in more goals, and more shots for the opponents. It is possible this is because the team has more confidence in Halak to bail them out, but it is also possible that it is a coaching strategy against better teams. Ie.. we are playing Pitts, so let's play the trap / defensive system. Oh its Toronto, go deep boys!

At the end of the day, based on the play, I would say Halak is playing very well, just as good as Price. Both of them are playing better then Price did in October, early November. Right now, we should be happy we have two strong goalies and stop this campaign some are waging to diminish the accomplishments of Halak for the sake of making Price feel better. Price will defend his skills in the crease quite effectively.

[KEEP26]

On the other hand, some of those teams are only below us because Halak beat them. If he had lost to them, they would be 8 points above us in the standings! I believe Halak is 8 for 8 against teams below us in the standing, and 4-6 against teams above us. So it is not as cut and dried as "exclusively used on against bad teams.

Halak has also played against a few top teams like Calgary, but I agree it helps his win percentage to play teams we should beat. I personally never look at the win percentages in comparing goalies, I view that as a team stat first and foremost.

That said, Halak wins the games he should win, while we have lost games to some of these bad teams with Price in net. Why can't Price win against these teams more readily? How about because he was not playing very well for about the first 6 weeks of the season! He is certainly playing better now, but his stats reflect the entire season.

People talk about more offensive support for Halak. I agree it is puzzling. I watch every game so I do not agree with the statistic business of "he plays weak team, hence our goals and his wins". There is so much parity in the league right now that you can play a good team and cruise to victory if they take a night off, or get hammered by a weak team if they are pushing and you take the night off.

I have seem Halak win us games where the other team (despite the standings), has severely outplayed us and if not for Halak, we lose. Simple as that. I have also noticed that our team is wiling to play a more wide open style with Halak in net, resulting in more goals, and more shots for the opponents. It is possible this is because the team has more confidence in Halak to bail them out, but it is also possible that it is a coaching strategy against better teams. Ie.. we are playing Pitts, so let's play the trap / defensive system. Oh its Toronto, go deep boys!

At the end of the day, based on the play, I would say Halak is playing very well, just as good as Price. Both of them are playing better then Price did in October, early November. Right now, we should be happy we have two strong goalies and stop this campaign some are waging to diminish the accomplishments of Halak for the sake of making Price feel better. Price will defend his skills in the crease quite effectively.

i agree with what you say for the most part..but i beleive halak is being shopped and thats means his being showcase..no way to better showcase a good goalie then by getting him to play the team we should beat..it just makes common sense..not taking anything away some halak because his been great for us..

[nyckdkool]

You must be young, because 20 years old is a kid, and 24 is not 'plenty old'. That's the age AHL rookies generally are 20, so yes, they are kids in the NHL when they get called up.

You must be extremely old, Halak is the same age, how can you call someone too young when he's the same age as Halak and older than Price? Please explain to me how 24 is the age AHL rookies generally are when you are done playing major junior at 20, where are all the prospects who don't make the big club for 4 yrs, how old is Tyler Myers in Buffalo, he seems to be fine, how old is Weber when he was called up lst yr, he gives up about 20 pounds of muscle to PK. I never said give PK 25 mins of ice, but if injury opens up a spot, he deserves a look.

Edited January 8, 2010 by nyckdkool

[BCHabnut]

You must be extremely old, Halak is the same age, how can you call someone too young when he's the same age as Halak and older than Price? Please explain to me how 24 is the age AHL rookies generally are when you are done playing major junior at 20, where are all the prospects who don't make the big club for 4 yrs, how old is Tyler Myers in Buffalo, he seems to be fine, how old is Weber when he was called up lst yr, he gives up about 20 pounds of muscle to PK. I never said give PK 25 mins of ice, but if injury opens up a spot, he deserves a look.

There is a reason Price has the most wins of all goalies in the league for his age. He started extremely young. 23 or 24 IS the age when goalies break into the league. 24 IS too young to back up an inconsistent starter. You need a vet backing up a kid. Look at the breakdown of the careers of Brodeur, Fleury, Luongo, and so many others and you will see that. I don't think it is wise to trade Halak and expect Cedrick to fill in for Price if he faulters. The reason that the Habs were so dominant for so many years is that they didn't have to do this sort of thing before. Thye left the talented guys in the minors and let them develope fully. I think Price, Max, SK, Dagostini could all have benifitted with some time in the minors. But especially Price.

[Fanpuck33]

I keep hearing people talk about needing a veteran to backup a youngster. That's not some kind of cure-all situation. Having Garon back him up hasn't done anything to help Steve Mason in Columbus.

[saskhab]

You must be extremely old, Halak is the same age, how can you call someone too young when he's the same age as Halak and older than Price? Please explain to me how 24 is the age AHL rookies generally are when you are done playing major junior at 20, where are all the prospects who don't make the big club for 4 yrs, how old is Tyler Myers in Buffalo, he seems to be fine, how old is Weber when he was called up lst yr, he gives up about 20 pounds of muscle to PK. I never said give PK 25 mins of ice, but if injury opens up a spot, he deserves a look.

And that's fine. I was just making fun of the preception you had of age in regards to the NHL (I'm 28). Age isn't necessarily the determining factor of whether someone is ready or not, though. Experience is. Desjardins has had 1/2 of a dominant season at the AHL level. Subban has had 1/2 of a good season at the AHL level. They can get to the NHL soon enough, but to say a guy is "plenty old" just kind of struck me as curious. Most goalies break into the league at around Desjardins' age, and plenty of European goalies break in later (Rinne, Toskala, Backstrom, Huet, Gerber, etc.).

And Weber is pretty raw, and we know this. The Habs have put a lot of guys into NHL roles before they were ready for them. I think it's a pattern that they're trying to stop, although Pacioretty seems like the exception to the rule.

[nyckdkool]

And that's fine. I was just making fun of the preception you had of age in regards to the NHL (I'm 28). Age isn't necessarily the determining factor of whether someone is ready or not, though. Experience is. Desjardins has had 1/2 of a dominant season at the AHL level. Subban has had 1/2 of a good season at the AHL level. They can get to the NHL soon enough, but to say a guy is "plenty old" just kind of struck me as curious. Most goalies break into the league at around Desjardins' age, and plenty of European goalies break in later (Rinne, Toskala, Backstrom, Huet, Gerber, etc.).

And Weber is pretty raw, and we know this. The Habs have put a lot of guys into NHL roles before they were ready for them. I think it's a pattern that they're trying to stop, although Pacioretty seems like the exception to the rule.

Habs are tight against the cap, why not move (trade) a guy like Mara and bring up PK, do you miss anything in the quality of play, maybe a few mistakes here or there but you immediately increase the speed of your D. PK can physically handle the strength of the NHL, Weber, no, Subban without doubt. Pacioretty seems to struggle physically out there, some games the poor guys get's teed off on.

The goalies you list as breaking in are really nothing more than backup quality at best, gerber is garbage and is out of the league, Toskla is what the leafs are, shit, Huet had a short run etc. There is a reason they all did not break in until they got older, they weren't very good to begin with.

[Habsy]

I'd really prefer if PK stays in Hamilton. Why rush him? He's developing properly, under a super, young coach like Boucher. We can't afford any mistakes, like rushing players.

[saskhab]

The goalies you list as breaking in are really nothing more than backup quality at best, gerber is garbage and is out of the league, Toskla is what the leafs are, shit, Huet had a short run etc. There is a reason they all did not break in until they got older, they weren't very good to begin with.

Nabokov, Kiprusoff, Anderson, Thomas... heck even Miller was 24 when he became a regular. Turco was around that age, too. A lot of those goalies I mentioned were starters in European leagues (higher level than AHL, better pay) before getting their NHL shot. Gerber was a good goalie for a few years (overpaid at end), so was Toskala (backstopped team to Conference finals), Huet is just overpaid not bad. They weren't garbage, they were simply not elite. And funny you didn't mention Backstrom or Rinne in your reply, both very good keepers.

24/25 is pretty normal for goalies. If Desjardins has a better career than Martin Gerber and Cristobal Huet I'll be quite happy for the young man.

[nyckdkool]

Nabokov, Kiprusoff, Anderson, Thomas... heck even Miller was 24 when he became a regular. Turco was around that age, too. A lot of those goalies I mentioned were starters in European leagues (higher level than AHL, better pay) before getting their NHL shot. Gerber was a good goalie for a few years (overpaid at end), so was Toskala (backstopped team to Conference finals), Huet is just overpaid not bad. They weren't garbage, they were simply not elite. And funny you didn't mention Backstrom or Rinne in your reply, both very good keepers.

24/25 is pretty normal for goalies. If Desjardins has a better career than Martin Gerber and Cristobal Huet I'll be quite happy for the young man.

Please reference where the word regular was used, how's backstrom doing there year? not very good, i am sure apologist will blame losing Gaborik. Last check this thread was about halak, along the lines of trade or keep, if they trade him they have Dejardins ready to step in and back up Price. It's very unlikely this team is winning the cup this year (unfortunately) and it's highly unlikely both CP and Jaro will be in a Habs uni next year, so if they trade Jaro, Dejardins will hopefully be a quality back up and push CP to improve.

[redondo]

Habs are tight against the cap, why not move (trade) a guy like Mara and bring up PK, do you miss anything in the quality of play, maybe a few mistakes here or there but you immediately increase the speed of your D. PK can physically handle the strength of the NHL, Weber, no, Subban without doubt. Pacioretty seems to struggle physically out there, some games the poor guys get's teed off on.

The goalies you list as breaking in are really nothing more than backup quality at best, gerber is garbage and is out of the league, Toskla is what the leafs are, shit, Huet had a short run etc. There is a reason they all did not break in until they got older, they weren't very good to begin with.

In general most GMs don't trade guys they just signed as free agents unless they totally suck, the whole thing falls apart and/or want out (see Samsonov). Mara hasn't been great, but if we start trading guys who signed as FAs liberally nobody will want to sign with us again. There is a reason you don't see this much around the league.

Also, leave PK where he's at, he's doing well, but with only a half a season of pro hockey it really isn't enough of a sample size to be able to say he could definitely help the big club. Worst case scenario, you risk ruining his confidence by bringing him up too soon (see Latendresse) AND you lose a legit NHL d-man (such as he is) in Mara on an already thin D-corps. Let PK stay a year (and hopefully dominate) in the A, deal with (and hopefully overcome) some roadblocks, then see what he does in camp next year, IMO.

[Trizzak]

I expect Mara will be dealt at the deadline out west.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I expect Mara will be dealt at the deadline out west.

The thing with Mara is that he's on a one-year deal. That's different from UFAs who committed to the organization in a serious way like Gionta or Cammy. If he's swapped at the deadline, I'd expect it to have absolutely zero impact on the Habs's reputation. This could well happen (although I personally think Mara is a useful guy to have around).

[BTH]

With Kostitsyn out, a Halak trade becomes more likely. We no longer have the six top 6 forwards we need.