GDT: Game 5 ECF, Montreal vs Philadelphia

[Toronthab]

I asked the question because he said Gainey should have traded AK at a high point.

The only problem is assessing wether it IS THE HIGH POINT.

Every goalie is vulnerable high.

A friend of mine used to get high before games , and just like you said, he got beat high.

[hab29RETIRED]

This is bias on your part. Ryder has scored 25+ goals 4 times, you know how many players on the

Habs have accomplished that? ONE.

Ryder is a good NHL player, just not a $4M one.

Ryder was a consistent 25+ goal player who put forth an inconsistent EFFORT on a night in night out basis. I can understand a goal scorers being streaky, what I don't have patient for are lazy players who don't show up. With Ryder's size, he SHOULD be a 30+ goal scorer who also punishes the opposition along the boards. The other thing about Ryder is that every year he would only sign a 1 year deal that was close to $3M. He should have been moved. To me not moving Ryder and Souray (who was a tin man with a bum shoulder and wrist), should have been no brainers.

AK46 teases to be the same. With his talent, there is no reason why AK46 should not be a POWER forward who puts up 40 goals. He has the talent, size and has shown an ability to be physical, what he is lacking on MOST nights is a brain and effort. I see a Ryder as a lazy, less talented AK46.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

This was a tremendous season + playoff from a brand-new group. Much of this core has 3-4 years ahead of it. Now I agree that we have holes, and I agree that it will be challenging to fill those holes without weakening the core, but I said all season long that this team was 2-3 players away from contending and I think the results have vindicated that view. We should be both PROUD of what our team accomplished under arduous circumstances and OPTIMISTIC going forward. With the right help, this core can win.

THANK YOU MONTREAL CANADIENS 2010 FOR AN AMAZING RUN.

(Why no props to Gomez for an unbelievable third period? He was DOMINANT. It was an interesting coaching decision to require that everybody give the puck to Gomez in our zone so that he could start the rush; player after player did that and it led to the most sustained pressure we've had all series. Perhaps some notes for next season?).

MAB is gonzo, replaced by Subban. Try to dish SK and/or AK. Perhaps buy out Hammer. Tough, tough decisions regarding Pleks and Halak. Halak has limitations, you know; he was nothing special in this series, and more to the point he does not seem to be a guy built to excel in these sort of tight defensive games. I'm also worried about the reduction in goalie equipment next season and how that will affect him. The guy is a bona fide NHL goalie, but we need at all costs to keep Price until the dust from this season settles).

[Doktor Kosmos]

I'm honestly not that disappointed. They've come a long way and knocked off two very good teams on the way. They secured a place in the playoffs in their final game of the season, on the second-to-last day of the regular season. As the 8th seed, they eliminated the 1st seed in seven games after having been given not even a snowball's chance in hell - and they did so being down three games to one. They knocked off the reigning champions, again in seven games. Without their #1 defender and arguably their best player for the vast majority of the playoffs.

They came closer than 27 other teams. How can I not be proud of this team? :hlogo:

[hab29RETIRED]

No chance. I would deal Price for that pick, but it won't happen because Price's value is too low right now.

I am really beginning to believe that an elite goaltender is not necessary to win a Cup.

I don't know, if you put something like the SK74 (played with Gagner), AK46, Price (I only say Price, rather then Halak, since Edmonton was reportedly after Price all year), for a number 1 and one of Edmonton's young players who knows if Edmonton would bite. If Edmonton wasn't so screwed capwise with their own dumb siginings (Horcaff, Souray, Khabibulin), I'd even suggest that they be one of the few teams who may be willing to pick up Gomez's contract,s since they have such a hard time signing any free agents and Gomez would be locked up for the next 4 years.

[dlbalr]

(Why no props to Gomez for an unbelievable third period? He was DOMINANT. It was an interesting coaching decision to require that everybody give the puck to Gomez in our zone so that he could start the rush; player after player did that and it led to the most sustained pressure we've had all series. Perhaps some notes for next season?).

He was 1st star of the night in HW's 3 Stars, I gave him plenty of props.

Also another link I stumbled on, there was some Martin/Boucher discussion earlier in the thread, Columbus' GM Scott Howson is scouting Boucher tonight and the Jackets will not name a coach until they've talked to Boucher.

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/live/conten...ve.html?sid=101

[Wamsley01]

Ryder was a consistent 25+ goal player who put forth an inconsistent EFFORT on a night in night out basis. I can understand a goal scorers being streaky, what I don't have patient for are lazy players who don't show up. With Ryder's size, he SHOULD be a 30+ goal scorer who also punishes the opposition along the boards. The other thing about Ryder is that every year he would only sign a 1 year deal that was close to $3M. He should have been moved. To me not moving Ryder and Souray (who was a tin man with a bum shoulder and wrist), should have been no brainers.

AK46 teases to be the same. With his talent, there is no reason why AK46 should not be a POWER forward who puts up 40 goals. He has the talent, size and has shown an ability to be physical, what he is lacking on MOST nights is a brain and effort. I see a Ryder as a lazy, less talented AK46.

And? He fit in on a Bruins team that worked hard and had the best record last season.

He was what he was and Gainey only got burnt because he shit the bed in a UFA year.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

And? He fit in on a Bruins team that worked hard and had the best record last season.

He was what he was and Gainey only got burnt because he shit the bed in a UFA year.

I want to know how it is we're talking about Michael Ryder after the best habs' playoff in 17 years. Only in habsland!!

[hab29RETIRED]

He was 1st star of the night in HW's 3 Stars, I gave him plenty of props.

Also another link I stumbled on, there was some Martin/Boucher discussion earlier in the thread, Columbus' GM Scott Howson is scouting Boucher tonight and the Jackets will not name a coach until they've talked to Boucher.

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/live/conten...ve.html?sid=101

As I've been saying since Janauary, I'd rather have the habs fire Martin and hire Boucher, but there is ZERO chance of that happening now. To me that will be the only legacy and the lasting effect of this run, which will probably effect the future development of our young players

[Wamsley01]

I don't know, if you put something like the SK74 (played with Gagner), AK46, Price (I only say Price, rather then Halak, since Edmonton was reportedly after Price all year), for a number 1 and one of Edmonton's young players who knows if Edmonton would bite. If Edmonton wasn't so screwed capwise with their own dumb siginings (Horcaff, Souray, Khabibulin), I'd even suggest that they be one of the few teams who may be willing to pick up Gomez's contract,s since they have such a hard time signing any free agents and Gomez would be locked up for the next 4 years.

Not happening.

[Toronthab]

This was a tremendous season + playoff from a brand-new group. Much of this core has 3-4 years ahead of it. Now I agree that we have holes, and I agree that it will be challenging to fill those holes without weakening the core, but I said all season long that this team was 2-3 players away from contending and I think the results have vindicated that view. We should be both PROUD of what our team accomplished under arduous circumstances and OPTIMISTIC going forward. With the right help, this core can win.

THANK YOU MONTREAL CANADIENS 2010 FOR AN AMAZING RUN.

(Why no props to Gomez for an unbelievable third period? He was DOMINANT. It was an interesting coaching decision to require that everybody give the puck to Gomez in our zone so that he could start the rush; player after player did that and it led to the most sustained pressure we've had all series. Perhaps some notes for next season?).

MAB is gonzo, replaced by Subban. Try to dish SK and/or AK. Perhaps buy out Hammer. Tough, tough decisions regarding Pleks and Halak. Halak has limitations, you know; he was nothing special in this series, and more to the point he does not seem to be a guy built to excel in these sort of tight defensive games. I'm also worried about the reduction in goalie equipment next season and how that will affect him. The guy is a bona fide NHL goalie, but we need at all costs to keep Price until the dust from this season settles).

It was indeed a tremendous season and Gomez is indeed brilliant at carrying the puck into the offensive zone. Quite amazing how he makes it work. MAB worked early on, but I'm better than him and the SK , AK enigma is just that. AK worked a lot better with Kovalev.

As to the reduction of goalie equipment next year, this can only help as the lowered prices will let them buy more.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Toronthab

[hab29RETIRED]

And? He fit in on a Bruins team that worked hard and had the best record last season.

He was what he was and Gainey only got burnt because he shit the bed in a UFA year.

And he followed it up with the perdictable crappy year this year.

Not happening.

sigh, it doesn't hurt to dream - especially since I can't help to think things are going downhill after this year's run

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

As I've been saying since Janauary, I'd rather have the habs fire Martin and hire Boucher, but there is ZERO chance of that happening now. To me that will be the only legacy and the lasting effect of this run, which will probably effect the future development of our young players

Yeah, because JM should have been REWARDING Lapierre, Lats, and SK for acting like whiny babies all season who refused to be disciplined and play the system.

There is little evidence that JM is bad for young players. There is plenty of evidence that he is bad for young players who don't want to work, play a team game, and win. JM has contributed to the development of a winning culture in this organization.

(Not saying he's perfect, by the way - but this hate-on for Martin is getting tiresome. The man delivered the goods, what the hell more do we want? Yeah, I'd love to have Boucher stay with us too, but the odds of Boucher being the next Scotty Bowman remain slim. By the time JM's contract is expired he will probably be on the market again).

[hab29RETIRED]

I want to know how it is we're talking about Michael Ryder after the best habs' playoff in 17 years. Only in habsland!!

becoz it was just that a run - not a win. If we were the 2008-2009 Hawks that just lost and you could see that we were on the way to be an emerging power, I'd be optimistic about next year. A special run like this year where one of the factors to our success was the opposition not really paying the habs due respect and taking them too lightly is hard to be that thrilled about, becuase at the end of the day, it ended in a loss, and the chances or a repeat next year is pretty slim given our cap situation.

[Wamsley01]

This was a tremendous season + playoff from a brand-new group. Much of this core has 3-4 years ahead of it. Now I agree that we have holes, and I agree that it will be challenging to fill those holes without weakening the core, but I said all season long that this team was 2-3 players away from contending and I think the results have vindicated that view. We should be both PROUD of what our team accomplished under arduous circumstances and OPTIMISTIC going forward. With the right help, this core can win.

THANK YOU MONTREAL CANADIENS 2010 FOR AN AMAZING RUN.

(Why no props to Gomez for an unbelievable third period? He was DOMINANT. It was an interesting coaching decision to require that everybody give the puck to Gomez in our zone so that he could start the rush; player after player did that and it led to the most sustained pressure we've had all series. Perhaps some notes for next season?).

MAB is gonzo, replaced by Subban. Try to dish SK and/or AK. Perhaps buy out Hammer. Tough, tough decisions regarding Pleks and Halak. Halak has limitations, you know; he was nothing special in this series, and more to the point he does not seem to be a guy built to excel in these sort of tight defensive games. I'm also worried about the reduction in goalie equipment next season and how that will affect him. The guy is a bona fide NHL goalie, but we need at all costs to keep Price until the dust from this season settles).

I don't know if I am convinced that this run is a glimpse into a future of contention.

I will make up my mind on that after I see the summer moves. This team is a couple of good moves from

making the leap to contender, but a couple of bad steps from this become a 2006 Oilers run.

I agree on Halak and the equipment is a large factor moving forward. The Boucher/Martin fear also is one

I have had in regards to Price/Halak. Short runs should not replace long term vision.

[hab29RETIRED]

Yeah, because JM should have been REWARDING Lapierre, Lats, and SK for acting like whiny babies all season who refused to be disciplined and play the system.

There is little evidence that JM is bad for young players. There is plenty of evidence that he is bad for young players who don't want to work, play a team game, and win. JM has contributed to the development of a winning culture in this organization.

(Not saying he's perfect, by the way - but this hate-on for Martin is getting tiresome. The man delivered the goods, what the hell more do we want? Yeah, I'd love to have Boucher stay with us too, but the odds of Boucher being the next Scotty Bowman remain slim. By the time JM's contract is expired he will probably be on the market again).

He seemed perfectly willing to reward MAB for his bonehead plays, kept throwing Hamrlik on the PP and almost lost the Caps series, didn't seem to have any issues with Gomez taking bonehead selfish penalties that not only negated the PP, but also resulted in us going down 1-0 in both of the first games of the flyers series.

It does not send a good message to young players that if you are a vetern, you can make whatever mistakes you want, but if you are a young player you are going to have your ass nailed to the bench or press box. Lats was mishandled by the habs since he came into the league, as was Sk74. O'Byrne did not deserve the crap he got from Martin and he was really a guy that could have made a difference on the blueline - certainly would have been a BIG improvement over MAB. You have to wonder, did MAB have incriminating photos of Martin or something that he got so much ice time.

I don't know if I am convinced that this run is a glimpse into a future of contention.

I will make up my mind on that after I see the summer moves. This team is a couple of good moves from

making the leap to contender, but a couple of bad steps from this become a 2006 Oilers run.

I agree on Halak and the equipment is a large factor moving forward. The Boucher/Martin fear also is one

I have had in regards to Price/Halak. Short runs should not replace long term vision.

I definitely see this as an Edmonton run and would rather take advantage of the situation if someone takes a bite on a guy like Gomez or is willing to overpay for one of our goalies.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

becoz it was just that a run - not a win. If we were the 2008-2009 Hawks that just lost and you could see that we were on the way to be an emerging power, I'd be optimistic about next year. A special run like this year where one of the factors to our success was the opposition not really paying the habs due respect and taking them too lightly is hard to be that thrilled about, becuase at the end of the day, it ended in a loss, and the chances or a repeat next year is pretty slim given our cap situation.

Well, I doubt Ryder at $4 mil would have helped much.

I understand your pessimism, but I prefer to look at the upside. Gio and Gomez weren't flukes this playoff; like everyone keeps forgetting, they've done it before. And they have a few prime years left. Cammy is only now beginning to peak (he's 27 fer chrissakes!). Markov probably has another 3-4 prime years IF he doesn't keep getting injured, we have two splending young goalies, PK is a potential franchise defenceman, Gorges is rock solid, and we've got some good young supporting players (Laps, Pyatt). I don't believe that this was self-evidently some kind of freak event for the core. We CAN do it again...but the core needs better support. The Pouliots and AKs have to either improve or be replaced by guys who will deliver. That's the challenge. If MaxPac can emerge that will make a HUUUGE difference.

We need to get stronger, but the foundations played up to their potential this playoff, and these are the results. That should give us cause for hope - not dismay.

I rather like Wamsley's analysis. A couple of shrewd moves, we're right there. A couple of wrong moves, we're the 2006 Oilers. Fair enough, but that's not a bad place to be.

Edited May 25, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Wamsley01]

He seemed perfectly willing to reward MAB for his bonehead plays, kept throwing Hamrlik on the PP and almost lost the Caps series, didn't seem to have any issues with Gomez taking bonehead selfish penalties that not only negated the PP, but also resulted in us going down 1-0 in both of the first games of the flyers series.

It does not send a good message to young players that if you are a vetern, you can make whatever mistakes you want, but if you are a young player you are going to have your ass nailed to the bench or press box. Lats was mishandled by the habs since he came into the league, as was Sk74. O'Byrne did not deserve the crap he got from Martin and he was really a guy that could have made a difference on the blueline - certainly would have been a BIG improvement over MAB. You have to wonder, did MAB have incriminating photos of Martin or something that he got so much ice time.

I definitely see this as an Edmonton run and would rather take advantage of the situation if someone takes a bite on a guy like Gomez or is willing to overpay for one of our goalies.

You can't bench your veteran leaders for mistakes. No successful coach does this. Gomez should never be benched,

Hamrlik's mistakes came from overworking a 36 year old.

Bergeron is a power play specialist who was used way too much. He is the only guy who I would call Martin out for

in regards to inconsistency.

[hab29RETIRED]

Well, I doubt Ryder at $4 mil would have helped much.

I understand your pessimism, but I prefer to look at the upside. Gio and Gomez weren't flukes this playoff; like everyone keeps forgetting, they've done it before. And they have a few prime years left. Cammy is only now beginning to peak (he's 27 fer chrissakes!). Markov probably has another 3-4 prime years IF he doesn't keep getting injured, we have two splending young goalies, PK is a potential franchise defenceman, Gorges is rock solid, and we've got some good young supporting players (Laps, Pyatt). I don't believe that this was self-evidently some kind of freak event for the core. We CAN do it again...but the core needs better support. The Pouliots and AKs have to either improve or be replaced by guys who will deliver. That's the challenge. If MaxPac can emerge that will make a HUUUGE difference.

We need to get stronger, but the foundations played up to their potential this playoff, and these are the results. That should give us cause for hope - not dismay.

I'm not saying I wanted Ryder - I was arguing that the habs SHOULD have traded him long before his UFA season - just like they should have tried to move AK46 when he got hot earlier this year.

I believe Gorges and Markov are going to be UFA's after next year - both will be looking for raises - especially Gorges. Both Pouliot and Laps are RFA's and will want a raises. Either we sign Pleks for around $5-$5.5M or we have to replace him (what other 70pt+ UFA center will be available in that price range?).

If halak is resigned, we will be paying between $5-6.5M for our goailes.

As I said when the Gomez trade was made, we are screwed for the life of his contract. You cannot have a $7.3M 60-65 point guy and expect to be successful. I know you like him (and I would too if he was making around $4.5M), but as long as we have Gomez we are screwed, unless we pull a couple of rabbits out of the draft who put up big numbers for a low cost.

Edited May 25, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[hab29RETIRED]

You can't bench your veteran leaders for mistakes. No successful coach does this. Gomez should never be benched,

Hamrlik's mistakes came from overworking a 36 year old.

Bergeron is a power play specialist who was used way too much. He is the only guy who I would call Martin out for

in regards to inconsistency.

You don't need to bench them or sit them out, but they should be sent a message to miss a few shifts. Problem with Martin is that he either ignores mistakes or nails someones ass. WHen he was in Detroit, Bowman had no issues with sending a message to veterns to play the way he wants.

[huzer]

I'm proud of the playoff run they were able to string together, and while it was a known that the year would be a struggle with a completely new team, I'm still a little cautious. The season? 88pts and backing into the playoffs. The surprising first two rounds? We can't play a full season of rope-a-dope.

But I'll leave that aside for now. The bitter taste of the 5 game ECF stinks, but the team didn't give up after that ridiculous Richards SH goal. Unlike the 3 other losses, where they collapsed after Philly scored. I'll say this much, this team competed, they rarely quit. Kudos for that. It may have been frustrating at times, for thanks to the team for an entertaining season and playoff run.

[Wamsley01]

You don't need to bench them or sit them out, but they should be sent a message to miss a few shifts. Problem with Martin is that he either ignores mistakes or nails someones ass. WHen he was in Detroit, Bowman had no issues with sending a message to veterns to play the way he wants.

He did that with Hamrlik after Game 4 against Washington and the remainder of the Capitals series.

Gomez did way more positives than negatives to deserve that type of treatment.

[Wamsley01]

I'm not saying I wanted Ryder - I was arguing that the habs SHOULD have traded him long before his UFA season - just like they should have tried to move AK46 when he got hot earlier this year.

I believe Gorges and Markov are going to be UFA's after next year - both will be looking for raises - especially Gorges. Both Pouliot and Laps are RFA's and will want a raises. Either we sign Pleks for around $5-$5.5M or we have to replace him (what other 70pt+ UFA center will be available in that price range?).

If halak is resigned, we will be paying between $5-6.5M for our goailes.

As I said when the Gomez trade was made, we are screwed for the life of his contract. You cannot have a $7.3M 60-65 point guy and expect to be successful. I know you like him (and I would too if he was making around $4.5M), but as long as we have Gomez we are screwed, unless we pull a couple of rabbits out of the draft who put up big numbers for a low cost.

All you need to do is unearth a guy who plays at a $3.5M level for 800k to make up the difference.

That is why Subban is important and why Price could be important next season if he rebounds. They could provide

value way above their paygrade like Halak did in 2010.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Wamsley01

[Toronthab]

Well, I doubt Ryder at $4 mil would have helped much.

I understand your pessimism, but I prefer to look at the upside. Gio and Gomez weren't flukes this playoff; like everyone keeps forgetting, they've done it before. And they have a few prime years left. Cammy is only now beginning to peak (he's 27 fer chrissakes!). Markov probably has another 3-4 prime years IF he doesn't keep getting injured, we have two splending young goalies, PK is a potential franchise defenceman, Gorges is rock solid, and we've got some good young supporting players (Laps, Pyatt). I don't believe that this was self-evidently some kind of freak event for the core. We CAN do it again...but the core needs better support. The Pouliots and AKs have to either improve or be replaced by guys who will deliver. That's the challenge. If MaxPac can emerge that will make a HUUUGE difference.

We need to get stronger, but the foundations played up to their potential this playoff, and these are the results. That should give us cause for hope - not dismay.

I rather like Wamsley's analysis. A couple of shrewd moves, we're right there. A couple of wrong moves, we're the 2006 Oilers. Fair enough, but that's not a bad place to be.

We are well ahead of where we were, and we have a good core going forward. These series have identified and outlined softspots for attention. Cheers to the great heart and soul of so many standup players this year.

It's impossible for me to knock the coaching job JM did for us this year. I obvoiusly don't get to talk to , listen to, watch and evaluate all aspects of every player and a lazy SK hooking penatly is deadly at the wrong moment in playoff hockey. Ryder was unbievably bad prior to being traded. He ruined the line he played on and singlehandedly stoppped the action everytime the puck came near him. AK played without commitment, and was sloppy. Ryder was just a horrible hockey player and was widely recognized as the feeblest 30 goal scorer ever to lace up. I was thrilled to see him go. However.

It's closing time.

THanks Habs THanks!!

[Wamsley01]

PK for Game 7 for Hamilton?