GDT: Game 5 ECF, Montreal vs Philadelphia

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I'm not saying I wanted Ryder - I was arguing that the habs SHOULD have traded him long before his UFA season - just like they should have tried to move AK46 when he got hot earlier this year.

I believe Gorges and Markov are going to be UFA's after next year - both will be looking for raises - especially Gorges. Both Pouliot and Laps are RFA's and will want a raises. Either we sign Pleks for around $5-$5.5M or we have to replace him (what other 70pt+ UFA center will be available in that price range?).

If halak is resigned, we will be paying between $5-6.5M for our goailes.

As I said when the Gomez trade was made, we are screwed for the life of his contract. You cannot have a $7.3M 60-65 point guy and expect to be successful. I know you like him (and I would too if he was making around $4.5M), but as long as we have Gomez we are screwed, unless we pull a couple of rabbits out of the draft who put up big numbers for a low cost.

Again, I take your point. But I still find the pessimism overblown. So we're overpaying Gomez by $2 mil. That in and of itself is not sufficient to 'screw' a franchise. This playoff run proves that if nothing else. Most teams have a substantially overpaid guy or two. Chicago has Huet for God's sake.

I hear you on the ominous 'raises' we'll supposedly have to deal out eventually, but I have a blanket policy of not freaking out about hypothetical cap hits somewhere down the line. (Who says Markov will demand a raise, for instance?). Players/salaries come and go year by year - who knows where we'll be by then. Yes, Gauthier will have many hard choices, as is true of most GMs, and he will have to make the right choice most of the time, as is true of most GMs. My point remains that this core can win if the supporting cast is strengthened, and as of today this core remains intact. One year at a time.

What we DO need is better scouting, or else better development of the players we draft. Subban aside, there are no elite prospects left. This will make it harder than it should have been to supplement the core from within.

[Wamsley01]

Again, I take your point. But I still find the pessimism overblown. So we're overpaying Gomez by $2 mil. That in and of itself is not sufficient to 'screw' a franchise. This playoff run proves that if nothing else. Most teams have a substantially overpaid guy or two. Chicago has Huet for God's sake.

I hear you on the ominous 'raises' we'll supposedly have to deal out eventually, but I have a blanket policy of not freaking out about hypothetical cap hits somewhere down the line. (Who says Markov will demand a raise, for instance?). Players/salaries come and go year by year - who knows where we'll be by then. Yes, Gauthier will have many hard choices, as is true of most GMs, and he will have to make the right choice most of the time, as is true of most GMs. My point remains that this core can win if the supporting cast is strengthened, and as of today this core remains intact. One year at a time.

What we DO need is better scouting, or else better development of the players we draft. Subban aside, there are no elite prospects left. This will make it harder than it should have been to supplement the core from within.

I agree. I used to worry about the cap issues, but I have seen the Flyers, Hawks, Wings, Bruins continue

to make bold moves and work their way around it. The team right now could be totally different by the time

Markov and Gorges become UFAs.

We don't know what tomorrow holds. The Habs future depends on strong management. If they get it, we are laughing,

if not we can bitch here for 82 games.

[illWill]

There should be nothing but optimism coming from this playoff exit. Let's all rewind back to last fall when we had essentially A WHOLE NEW TEAM! All the "experts" had us finishing out of the playoffs. We battled through big injury after big injury, controversy after controvsery. If any one of you would have expected to make it to the eastern conference final despite all of that, then you sir should take a bow. I, myself was quite skeptical about any success once all the injuries kept happening and didn't expect much from this team and considered this year a write off. Well we snuck into the playoffs and played pretty much how we played all year, .500 hockey. We just happened to get the upper hand in two of the three series played.

Now moving forward, we do have alot of question marks but should be happy where we are. If we move one of our quality young goalies, we will receive good players at other positions (remember we have Desjardins chomping at the bit in the minors). Hypothetically Price"s worth at the deadline would have fetched a great return that would have helped during this run instead of an asset like that sitting on the bench. I personally have no idea which way management will go with this unique goaltending situation, but just HOPE that they make the right decision. And surely we can be happy with the Cammelleri signing and a potential stud on defense in Subban.

As far as UFA's go, I think we have to let Plekanec walk. His agent will press too much on regular season stats and will expect a contract worth at least 5m per for numerous years. I have never been on the Plex bandwagon. His "great" 69 point year followed by his 39 point year, followed by this year, doesn't convince me he is ready to earn those type of dollars. I like him as a player but i think that we need to spend that money on a player different from his mold. We need a bigger center, preferably a right hand shot (I've dreamt of Arnott for years). Mara and Bergeron won't be back, and SK will have a new home.

All in all, the 09-10 Canadiens gave us all a wild ride that i personally will never forget. I live in PEI and drove 12 hours to game 6 in Montreal against Pittsburgh to see them play the most memorable game of my life. I wore my Habs jersey to bars around my hometown to watch the game, only to see other habs fans doing the same. I got emails and texts during every game from people I didn't even know were fans. I am 27 years old (I didn't understand the greatness of 93) and THIS is the greatest time in my life that i can remember being a Habs fan. I hope that all of you can appreciate what this means to all habs fans out there. One more time......OLE, OLE, OLE!!!!

Edited May 25, 2010 by illWill

[mineral]

And please sign Dominic Moore. The guy has got Selke written all over him and is CLUTCH. Did you hear his French?

Edited May 25, 2010 by mineral

[Toronthab]

There should be nothing but optimism coming from this playoff exit. Let's all rewind back to last fall when we had essentially A WHOLE NEW TEAM! All the "experts" had us finishing out of the playoffs. We battled through big injury after big injury, controversy after controvsery. If any one of you would have expected to make it to the eastern conference final despite all of that, then you sir should take a bow. I, myself was quite skeptical about any success once all the injuries kept happening and didn't expect much from this team and considered this year a write off. Well we snuck into the playoffs and played pretty much how we played all year, .500 hockey. We just happened to get the upper hand in two of the three series played.

Now moving forward, we do have alot of question marks but should be happy where we are. If we move one of our quality young goalies, we will receive good players at other positions (remember we have Desjardins chomping at the bit in the minors). Hypothetically Price"s worth at the deadline would have fetched a great return that would have helped during this run instead of an asset like that sitting on the bench. I personally have no idea which way management will go with this unique goaltending situation, but just HOPE that they make the right decision. And surely we can be happy with the Cammelleri signing and a potential stud on defense in Subban.

As far as UFA's go, I think we have to let Plekanec walk. His agent will press too much on regular season stats and will expect a contract worth at least 5m per for numerous years. I have never been on the Plex bandwagon. His "great" 69 point year followed by his 39 point year, followed by this year, doesn't convince me he is ready to earn those type of dollars. I like him as a player but i think that we need to spend that money on a player different from his mold. We need a bigger center, preferably a right hand shot (I've dreamt of Arnott for years).

All in all, the 09-10 Canadiens gave us all a wild ride that i personally will never forget. I live in PEI and drove 12 hours to game 6 in Montreal against Pittsburgh to see them play the most memorable game of my life. I wore my Habs jersey to bars around my hometown to watch the game, only to see other habs fans doing the same. I got emails and texts during every game from people I didn't even know were fans. I am 27 years old (I didn't understand the greatness of 93) and THIS is the greatest time in my life that i can remember being a Habs fan. I hope that all of you can appreciate what this means to all habs fans out there. One more time......OLE, OLE, OLE!!!!

Very nice post Illwill, and what a treat to drive to Mtl for game 6, and I agree completely. We began the year with a new bunch of strangers including the leadership for the most part. THey have done well for us. I would add that quite a few of us looked at the new team and came up with the opinion that we were an improved team over the year before. Then goodbye Markov, Cam and other key players while still getting to know each other. With AK and Pouliot and PLeks.. (who contributed a great deal nonetheless) scoring as they all can, we might well have done even better.

Darn good work in progress was our Habs team of 2010; a team that really could compete and built from the goal outward as Mr G had intended with Price. Glad you enjoyed a challenging year in which the challenges were well met. Only two teams in the NHL are going further this year.

And please sign Dominic Moore. The guy has got Selke written all over him and is CLUTCH. Did you hear his French?

Didn't that prove to be a nice little move by Gauthier?

[BlueKross]

Darn good work in progress was our Habs team of 2010; a team that really could compete and built from the goal outward as Mr G had intended with Price. Glad you enjoyed a challenging year in which the challenges were well met. Only two teams in the NHL are going further this year.

You have to give Martin full credit for getting them this far well beyond expectations. However the play-offs are four rounds not two. As far as I can see, the Canadiens only showed up for 2 games out of the five and lost one of them. I have been quoted as saying that I didn't like any of the offseason moves including the hiring of Martin. In retrospect, I haven't changed other than I like Cammy. I would be inclined to move Martin out and Boucher in. Sadly however, Martin has probably done enough to warrant keeping him.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Lots of great comments in this thread.

I agree with hab29RETIRED that the Habs need to do a better job of understanding their talent. I still believe that it was a mistake not to trade Plekanec when his value was so high.

I pray that we never see MAB again. JM did a masterful job this playoffs but his overuse of MAB was a terrible mistake. It is possible that JM takes over the assistant GM duties next year to allow Boucher a chance rather than loosing him.

I made peace with the Habs being done after game 4 so I'm not upset at all. By the seasons' midpoint I was sure that we wouldn't even make the playoffs and look what we did

Gomez and Gionta were the only dangerous players last night. They need a real winger to put that line over the top.

Wamsley is spot on (as usual) with the idea that the offseason will make or break us. Lots of tough decisions to be made.

I don't want to loose either goalie but a BIG offer sheet to Halak would really help us.

I am sick to death of the Kostitsyns!

[Chris]

Well that series was a complete train wreck. the habs were totally dominated every game but one. the same thing happened 2 years ago but i guess that was only Price's fault.

I'm glad to see Gomez and Gionta realized it was an important game.

Overall i'm am more then satisfied with the year and playoff effort considering all the turnover, injuries and drama.

So to take the next step more changes need to be made. i'll put them in the other thread.

[nyckdkool]

Was a great run, I did not expect them to beat Pitt, Wash yes, Pitt no and I did not like the Philly matchup, f@#$ Boston. The Philly D was going to be the obstacle and they proved to be too much for Mtl's small forwards, Mtl just did not have the size to bang and pressure them they way they needed to be, Pronger needs to be pressured with speed and physicality, this was a like a walk in the woods with a few pesky mosquito's to swat away. Philly had the book on Halak, go high, it worked to perfection, getting Carter back was pretty much the nail in the coffin, he's a bonefide sniper and big, and a bit nasty, with Markov out, advantage up and down the lineup Philly.

Great season, should be an interesting offseason, and another reason to hate all things Boston, azzzhole losers.

Edited May 25, 2010 by nyckdkool

[brobin]

Well, as disappointing as that loss was, at least they went down fighting. Philly capitalized on a few errors to win, but the Habs didn't give up. Much better then the 3 other losses which were spotty effort.

I am still disappointed in Pleks and AK. In a game when we needed them to contribute, they were messing up passes, turning things over, and were otherwise invisible. I found that if AK had the puck the next thing you heard from Cole was either "fanned on it" or "that pass didn't connect". AK must have tossed about 50 passes in this series to guy where the pass was missed, but because the pass was terrible... someone teach him how to do a saucer pass....

The biggest decisions this summer have to be around that second line. Do you sign Pleks?. Do you dump the Kosts bros and upgrade that line? I think they need to do something. The biggest difference to me was we had one line going (Gomez, Gionta, Cammy) and Philly had more guys executing. We also need a real winger to play with Gomez and Gionta, but maybe Pouliot will keep maturing and fill that role.

The other tough one will be Halak / Price... Sign them both? Trade one, sign the other... not an easy decision and no matter what they do someone will be screaming about it.

On the plus side, for a bubble team to get to the conference final is no small feat.. so let's celebrate that we finally had a team in the playoffs that over achieved, instead of under achieved. That is the way you start building a champion. Gomez, Gionta, Subban, Cammy, Gil... those guys bring a lot of playoff mojo to this team and it showed. Now lets complete the build around that core and see what next year delivers.

[Toronthab]

Well, as disappointing as that loss was, at least they went down fighting. Philly capitalized on a few errors to win, but the Habs didn't give up. Much better then the 3 other losses which were spotty effort.

I am still disappointed in Pleks and AK. In a game when we needed them to contribute, they were messing up passes, turning things over, and were otherwise invisible. I found that if AK had the puck the next thing you heard from Cole was either "fanned on it" or "that pass didn't connect". AK must have tossed about 50 passes in this series to guy where the pass was missed, but because the pass was terrible... someone teach him how to do a saucer pass....

The biggest decisions this summer have to be around that second line. Do you sign Pleks?. Do you dump the Kosts bros and upgrade that line? I think they need to do something. The biggest difference to me was we had one line going (Gomez, Gionta, Cammy) and Philly had more guys executing. We also need a real winger to play with Gomez and Gionta, but maybe Pouliot will keep maturing and fill that role.

The other tough one will be Halak / Price... Sign them both? Trade one, sign the other... not an easy decision and no matter what they do someone will be screaming about it.

On the plus side, for a bubble team to get to the conference final is no small feat.. so let's celebrate that we finally had a team in the playoffs that over achieved, instead of under achieved. That is the way you start building a champion. Gomez, Gionta, Subban, Cammy, Gil... those guys bring a lot of playoff mojo to this team and it showed. Now lets complete the build around that core and see what next year delivers.

I suspect that JM and Mr G and Gauthier could all see quite plainly MAB's defficiencies...and everyone elses. I doubt that Mr G had to nudge him in the hallway and point it out. There are reasons he was played, and probably good ones. I don't know them, but you can bet it wasn't an "I hate young guys." decision. Can we give these guys a little credit? It's fun to second guess, but I am frankly not the expert these guys are and most obvious criticisms are just that I suspect, too obvious. I don't think any of these guys are idiots.

Excellent season Habs until you ran out of gas. Great effort. Shift after shift of excellent tough play, especially defensively. CONGRATS

[Wamsley01]

On the plus side, for a bubble team to get to the conference final is no small feat.. so let's celebrate that we finally had a team in the playoffs that over achieved, instead of under achieved. That is the way you start building a champion. Gomez, Gionta, Subban, Cammy, Gil... those guys bring a lot of playoff mojo to this team and it showed. Now lets complete the build around that core and see what next year delivers.

Finally had a team in the playoffs overachieve?

Every playoff team the Habs have had since 1996 (outside of 2008) overachieved or met expectation.

1996 they lead the the 3 seeded Rangers 2-0

1997 they lost to the 1 seeded Devils in 5

1998 they upset the 2 seeded Pens

2002 they upset the 1 seeded Bruins

2004 they upset the 2 seeded Bruins

2006 they lead the 2 seeded Canes 2-0 before losing Koivu

2010 they beat the 1 seed and Cup champs

If the Habs never overachieved in the playoffs we would have essentially zero playoff memories

since the 1993 Cup run. This has been the same story in Montreal for 15 years, just make the playoffs

and anything can happen.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Wamsley01

[JCPetit]

Too bad it had to end before we reached the finals and had a real chance for the Cup. Anyhow, it was a great run, completely unexpected, and a lot of fun. Thanks Jaro, thanks to all the players and the organisation. And the best of luck next time!

[rafikz]

This run reminds me more of the 1993 Islanders than the 1993 Habs

[brobin]

I mean recently.. not just knocking off one team, but the conference finals against the toughest set of teams we have seen in years. I view this as playing well over our heads, not just knocking off Boston. More to the point, the last time we knocked off Boston, we were heavy favorites and needed 7 games, just to blow it against Philly. I view that as a team underperforming.

Knocking off Washington was great, but akin to our romp on Boston in the past... doing it again to Pittsburgh was beyond expectations for sure.

Finally had a team in the playoffs overachieve?

Every playoff team the Habs have had since 1996 (outside of 2008) overachieved or met expectation.

1996 they lead the the 3 seeded Rangers 2-0

1997 they lost to the 1 seeded Devils in 5

1998 they upset the 2 seeded Pens

2002 they upset the 1 seeded Bruins

2004 they upset the 2 seeded Bruins

2006 they lead the 2 seeded Canes 2-0 before losing Koivu

2010 they beat the 1 seed and Cup champs

If the Habs never overachieved in the playoffs we would have essentially zero playoff memories

since the 1993 Cup run. This has been the same story in Montreal for 15 years, just make the playoffs

and anything can happen.

[Wamsley01]

I mean recently.. not just knocking off one team, but the conference finals against the toughest set of teams we have seen in years. I view this as playing well over our heads, not just knocking off Boston. More to the point, the last time we knocked off Boston, we were heavy favorites and needed 7 games, just to blow it against Philly. I view that as a team underperforming.

Knocking off Washington was great, but akin to our romp on Boston in the past... doing it again to Pittsburgh was beyond expectations for sure.

That is one season in the last 15. This team ALWAYS overachieves in the playoffs to some extent.

The only series I expected (not hoped) them to win since 1993 was the 2008 series against the Bruins.

[Wamsley01]

This run reminds me more of the 1993 Islanders than the 1993 Habs

Unfortunately I tend to agree.

[Toronthab]

Too bad it had to end before we reached the finals and had a real chance for the Cup. Anyhow, it was a great run, completely unexpected, and a lot of fun. Thanks Jaro, thanks to all the players and the organisation. And the best of luck next time!

Amen.

[Sir_Boagalott]

I'm still in shock. I dont remember seeing the Habs get this far and not make it to the Cup. Hell I can only remember them gettng this before and not winning the Cup only once (89 Flames). I thought the hockey Gods were on our side, nobody esle was. That really pissed me off. Was it just me or were none of the other hockey fans cheering for the Habs? I rarely saw any Habs flags and when I did they were Habs fans like us. In years past I saw way more Oilers flags, Flames, Sens, Canucks. I'd even say that I've probably seen more Wings and Hawks flags this year. I thought for sure this was our year. When PK was bleeding I couldnt have been more sure. When I go to watch game 6 tonight reality will set in.

I'd quote Wamsley's 1 post but I'm not sure what page it was on and cant be arsed looking for it.

I definitely agree with what Wamsley said aboot respect. The Flyers did respect the Habs, and the Caps n Pens didnt give the Habs enough respect. However I also stongly beleive the opposite was more of a deciding factor. i.e. the Habs respected the Caps n Pens but not for the Flyers.

Its sad, the Habs should have beat the FLyers. I agree that JM should go, his MO for the FLyers was useless.

The Habs had 0 respect for the Flyers and got their asses handed to them in 3 of the games. JM knows to get his team to shut down the other teams all star forwrds thats for sure. Only problem is that when the other team doesnt have any all star forwards he doesnt seem to be smart enough to get his team to shut down the other teams hottest players. :puke:

Ya, Phillies Frenchies warranted special coverage that just never came.

Thats what pisses me off, Philly didnt beat us, French players did. i.e. Briere, Gagner, Griroux

All 3 were hot comming into this series and JM let them run roughshad over the Habs.

I can say with absolute certainty that Laviolette made his Flyers very aware of who Cammy and Gio are.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I'm still in shock. I dont remember seeing the Habs get this far and not make it to the Cup. Hell I can only remember them gettng this before and not winning the Cup only once (89 Flames).

In 1987 we lost in the semi-finals...to Philly.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Yep, you are right. For some reason I thought that was in the 2nd rnd for some silly reason., but that would be impossible in the old 4 div NHL. Also that 87 loss to Philly in no way had the same effect because the previous year the Habs won the Cup. For me that loss was just a quick realization that the Habs couldnt win every year.

Was 87 the year of the brawl? or was that 85?

It is kinda funny, depending on how you measure success the Flyers are 1 of the more successfull clubs. The Flyers do make it to the Cup fairly frequently compared to most clubs, they just never seem to win when they do.

[huzer]

'87 was the brawl year. I remember CBC cutting to the rink during pregame to show it.

Over the weekend I was telling a friend of mine about the whole Hextall/Chelios incident in '89 after Chelly doinked Propp earlier in the series.

Edited May 26, 2010 by huzer

[JoeLassister]

'87 was the brawl year. I remember CBC cutting to the rink during pregame to show it.

Over the weekend I was telling a friend of mine about the whole Hextall/Chelios incident in '89 after Chelly doinked Propp earlier in the series.

T'as gelé Bryan Propp pendant une game des séries

Ça mis Ron Hextall en beaux fusils

La foire a pogné, ça c't'ait l'bon vieux temps

Toé t'as jamais eu la chienne de jeter les gants