UFA/RFA Habs: Who do you want back?

[hab29RETIRED]

Gaither didn't have 5 yrs on his contract and he shot himself by the way he created controversy with cammy trade and than pettiness not letting cammy keep his jersey. If there's one thing Molson has in common with Ronald Corey, it's that he doesn't want any controversy or bad press about lack of class in the organization.

That's what Gauthier thought. He thought the season would be blamed on coaching and all of the controversy about Randy. Both got canned.

Bergevin can't claim Price for a second year. If Carey goes down again and the best Bergevin can do is acquire a guy on his way out of the NHL again there will be no quarter.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Wasted eh, which of course was due to poor management.

Cup window? Don't you need some all-star scoring forwards to even be a real contender?

So, you don't think this was a wasted year? You must have an odd conception of why teams play the game.

'Cup window:' our star players (including our superstar goalie) are in their primes. Last season was the first year where that could really be said. So that's one year lost from the Cup window. Instead of losing another one, MB's job is to put this core in a position to win. (And yeah, if Price goes down again, he can't sit on his hands this time - he'd have to go out and get a legit goalie).

[DON]

So, you don't think this was a wasted year? You must have an odd conception of why teams play the game.

'Cup window:' our star players (including our superstar goalie) are in their primes. Last season was the first year where that could really be said. So that's one year lost from the Cup window. Instead of losing another one, MB's job is to put this core in a position to win. (And yeah, if Price goes down again, he can't sit on his hands this time - he'd have to go out and get a legit goalie).

So you want him to leave several $m of cap room open...just in case Price gets hurt?

[Guest Stogey24]

There's thing called trading

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

There's thing called trading

Imagine!

If Price suffers another long-term injury, which would either be horrendous luck on a par with Andrei Markov's, or else a signal that the guy is breaking down early, MB cannot sit on his arse. I agreed with not shedding assets to fix the G situation last season, but how many prime years of PK and Patches are supposed to go up in smoke? If this isn't the Cup window, when will it arrive? When our #9 pick this season is 28? Bergy is out of rope and out of excuses - it's time to find answers.

[Link67]

We can't go blowing assets towards doomsday scenarios, you think Dallas is happy about having blown assets and cap on their goalie situation rather than have 5 million sunk into a top 4 d-man right now? How much did that help them? If we spend a penny more than we have in our goalie situation rather than our top 6 forward situation, I will throw my hands in the air with disgust.

If Price suffers another anything it doesn't matter, this team is not winning anything without him in the net when it matters most. If we have some more offensive support it will be the greatest help to any goalie scenario we can come up with that doesn't have Price in net. And when Price is in net with more offensive support then we will just be a dominant force on the ice most nights, and that is what I believe to be the key to success going forward. Every penny and every sleepless night needs to go towards our top 6 problem, anything else is a shameful waste of time.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

We can't go blowing assets towards doomsday scenarios, you think Dallas is happy about having blown assets and cap on their goalie situation rather than have 5 million sunk into a top 4 d-man right now? How much did that help them? If we spend a penny more than we have in our goalie situation rather than our top 6 forward situation, I will throw my hands in the air with disgust.

If Price suffers another anything it doesn't matter, this team is not winning anything without him in the net when it matters most. If we have some more offensive support it will be the greatest help to any goalie scenario we can come up with that doesn't have Price in net. And when Price is in net with more offensive support then we will just be a dominant force on the ice most nights, and that is what I believe to be the key to success going forward. Every penny and every sleepless night needs to go towards our top 6 problem, anything else is a shameful waste of time.

No, no, I'm not saying go out and get a goalie. I'm saying that IF Price suffers another season-ender, THEN we have to go get a goalie. This business about 'we'll never win without Price' only goes so far. Hanging the team out to dry with some of the worst goaltending in the league for 3/4 of a season is not something you can make a habit of.

[DON]

Imagine!

If Price suffers another long-term injury, which would either be horrendous luck on a par with Andrei Markov's, or else a signal that the guy is breaking down early, MB cannot sit on his arse. I agreed with not shedding assets to fix the G situation last season, but how many prime years of PK and Patches are supposed to go up in smoke? If this isn't the Cup window, when will it arrive? When our #9 pick this season is 28? Bergy is out of rope and out of excuses - it's time to find answers.

It will arrive when Habs get some firepower up front and team avoids key injuries. Why is Bergevin out of rope? You seem to be overreacting and going off deep end on stance? Why all the doom and gloom cynacism?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It will arrive when Habs get some firepower up front and team avoids key injuries. Why is Bergevin out of rope? You seem to be overreacting and going off deep end on stance? Why all the doom and gloom cynacism?

It's not doom and gloom to say that our three best players are in their primes and that, therefore, we need to take a step up and enter the ranks of true NHL contenders.

You seem to be operating on the tacit assumption that the aim is to have a contending team at some point or other within that 'Cup window.' E.g., if you get a 5-year window, well, you need to have a contender in one of those years. I quite disagree. If you have a 5-year window, you want your team to be a heavy-duty contender in every one of those years, because it might take you five playoff runs in order to break through and win.

Like I said, we lost one year in our Cup window (which I don't pretend to define with precision). We can't keep pissing away years. Panic is not warranted at all, but some steely-eyed determination and urgency absolutely is.

I'm sure Bergevin understands the need to go out and get some firepower. And I'm quite confident that with Price + a top-6 FW or two, this team can contend.

Doom and gloom? Not at all. A sense of urgency? Absolutely.

[DON]

It's not doom and gloom to say that our three best players are in their primes and that, therefore, we need to take a step up and enter the ranks of true NHL contenders.

You seem to be operating on the tacit assumption that the aim is to have a contending team at some point or other within that 'Cup window.' E.g., if you get a 5-year window, well, you need to have a contender in one of those years. I quite disagree. If you have a 5-year window, you want your team to be a heavy-duty contender in every one of those years, because it might take you five playoff runs in order to break through and win.

Like I said, we lost one year in our Cup window (which I don't pretend to define with precision). We can't keep pissing away years. Panic is not warranted at all, but some steely-eyed determination and urgency absolutely is.

I'm sure Bergevin understands the need to go out and get some firepower. And I'm quite confident that with Price + a top-6 FW or two, this team can contend.

Doom and gloom? Not at all. A sense of urgency? Absolutely.

Window smindow! Wasted year, pissing it away, absolute urgency, Bergevin sitting on his arse...one pile of negativity or do-die prophesy. Don't get it, how bout start with a playoff team first, hope all the stars align with career year for couple players, a final piece is available at trade deadline and Price can make it to the cup finals without getting hurt first.

[Guest Stogey24]

So you don't think there is a window of opportunity for this team to win? You don't think Price making 11 million dollars a year complicates things? Or Max following that trend and making 8 or 9. Or Galchenyuk getting a hefty raise.... None of that gives you a sense that this team needs to win in the next two years?

[KoRP]

I can see the need for urgency from us hard core Hab fans, mainly because of the fact the Habs do indeed have a great core of 3-4 players, in their prime. Tragic season in 2016 aside, this team showed signs in the previous 3 seasons, that they are close to winning it all.

When you add the fact this organization has no great stockpile of grade A prospects to go along with the idea of being a perennial contender and building slowly, and anyone who isn't a complete hockey idiot would logically assume Bergevin knows now is the time to take a run, and get this team what it needs... 1 or 2 top 6 players.

Bergevin needs to bust his ass to sign Okposo, he is by definition what this team needs, and he can be had thru free agency, costing nothing more than money and cap space.

Sign him, and I'm sure all Hab fans can relax a bit until October, both factions of frugally managing draft and prospects, while adding a piece like Okposo as a core piece to an already great core, without giving up a single asset.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I can see the need for urgency from us hard core Hab fans, mainly because of the fact the Habs do indeed have a great core of 3-4 players, in their prime. Tragic season in 2016 aside, this team showed signs in the previous 3 seasons, that they are close to winning it all.

When you add the fact this organization has no great stockpile of grade A prospects to go along with the idea of being a perennial contender and building slowly, and anyone who isn't a complete hockey idiot would logically assume Bergevin knows now is the time to take a run, and get this team what it needs... 1 or 2 top 6 players.

Bergevin needs to bust his ass to sign Okposo, he is by definition what this team needs, and he can be had thru free agency, costing nothing more than money and cap space.

Sign him, and I'm sure all Hab fans can relax a bit until October, both factions of frugally managing draft and prospects, while adding a piece like Okposo as a core piece to an already great core, without giving up a single asset.

Agree. I like DON as a poster, but confess that I don't know what his problem is on this front.

Look at this team:

2014: Clear playoff team, reaches Conference finals, quite possibly Cup finalists if Price doesn't get hurt

2015: Clear playoff team, Conference semi-finals, weird failure to score despite seeming to outplay TB for much of the series

2016: Totally dominate the league for 25 games, then collapse and miss playoffs

The last 3/4 of last year can cause us to lose sight of the deeper pattern that this team, when Price is healthy, has been on the outer circumference of the contenders' circle for 2 1/4 of the past 3 years. At some point, you have to stop dicking around and put yourself in the circle. Otherwise you end up looking back and saying, 'gee, it's a shame we never did anything in those Price/Subban years.'

As you note, we are not rebuilding. There is no 'next wave' of elite talent about to make the jump. THIS is the generation of Habs that Gainey Rebuild 2.0 was meant to point us towards.

I still think DON is labouring under the misapprehension that the point is to try to catch lightning in a bottle in some magical year. I disagree. The point is to maximize your odds of winning the Cup. You do that by having a Cup-worthy team over a number of seasons. Seen from this point of view, there is clearly reason for a sense of urgency. The clock is ticking; we need to get at it.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

San Jose acquired Reimer even though Jones was a great goalie and ended up being the best goalie of the playoffs.

Pittsburgh would not have won the Cup if they had a goalie better than Fleury in Murray.

Tampa Bay still had a chance to beat Pittsburgh because their back-up to Bishop was good.

This should tell you that Condon isn't enough and the best teams in the league are going far because they don't rely on a guy who was simply better than Tokarski to back up their #1 goalie.

[Guest Stogey24]

Its a sticky situation when you start getting into the price tag of a back up.

I'd personally rather have a guy with some more experience back there.

[DON]

Is just too bad that many good UFAs don't see Quebec as a preferred destination and players like Stamkos have absolutely zero interest in signing in Montreal.

Hopefully Habs have enough $$ to overpay and entice one this year.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Is just too bad that many good UFAs don't see Quebec as a preferred destination and players like Stamkos have absolutely zero interest in signing in Montreal.

Hopefully Habs have enough $$ to overpay and entice one this year.

Is this really true, though? We seem to have done OK on the UFA market over the past decade or so. Yeah, UFAs are overpaid, but that's pretty much a universal constant, not Montreal-specific.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Is just too bad that many good UFAs don't see Quebec as a preferred destination and players like Stamkos have absolutely zero interest in signing in Montreal.

Hopefully Habs have enough $$ to overpay and entice one this year.

Reminder that Stamkos is a quiet guy who likes his privacy and got stalked last time he was in Montreal. That will probably play a much bigger role in him not coming to Montreal than Quebec being a preferred destination or not.

[DON]

Who have they got worth anything? besides Petry?

A whole bunch of retreads, Tanguay, Lang, Moore, Sopel, Mara, Briere, Gill, PAP, Kassian, Semin, Squid.

ALL we keep hearing is that Bergevin put offer in on this guy or that guy, but no luck he signs with another team. You think that is because Bergevin is low-balling every UFA?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Who have they got worth anything? besides Petry?

A whole bunch of retreads, Tanguay, Lang, Moore, Sopel, Mara, Briere, Gill, PAP, Kassian, Semin, Squid.

ALL we keep hearing is that Bergevin put offer in on this guy or that guy, but no luck he signs with another team. You think that is because Bergevin is low-balling every UFA?

Gionta, Cammalleri, and Kovalev were not retreads any more than Petry is. Cammy was the best FW available in his UFA year, in fact (I get that you hate him, but objectively speaking he was the top guy).

It's easy to nurture the idea that we're losers at the UFA table, but a lot of that may be a result of the facts that

a. the UFA pool has shrunk in recent years as teams get wise and lock in their talent

b. all teams strike out when it comes to luring UFAs, but we only tend to focus on cases where *our* team struck out, and

c. we were definitely an undesirable destination for some years there (the Houle/Savard and early Gainey era, when we were known to be a horrendous organization).

I'd speculate that the last decade shows us to be a competitive UFA destination.

[Habinator33]

Gionta, Cammalleri, and Kovalev were not retreads any more than Petry is. Cammy was the best FW available in his UFA year, in fact (I get that you hate him, but objectively speaking he was the top guy).

It's easy to nurture the idea that we're losers at the UFA table, but a lot of that may be a result of the facts that

a. the UFA pool has shrunk in recent years as teams get wise and lock in their talent

b. all teams strike out when it comes to luring UFAs, but we only tend to focus on cases where *our* team struck out, and

c. we were definitely an undesirable destination for some years there (the Houle/Savard and early Gainey era, when we were known to be a horrendous organization).

I'd speculate that the last decade shows us to be a competitive UFA destination.

I was just about to post something very similar. I'd add Erik Cole to list of desirable free agents we were able to sign. Yes, he fell apart in year 2 but he was a legit player when we signed him.

To add to the undesirable part:

- Until Price broke out we have been pretty much a bubble team since Roy left. Guys look to see if they have a legit shot at a cup during their contract.

- We haven't really had a coaching staff that drew players in

- Wingers will tend to lean towards a team that has a real no 1 center they can play alongside.

Other than that as you said the pool has shrunk which has led to some horrible contracts being handed out (supply/demand). Some of the guys we've liked have gotten horrible contracts that would've ended up hurting.

Lastly, I think this is the best market we've had in years. There are plenty of solid UFAs, a very good draft, and there are a few decent trade names out there. I'd be in shock if he doesn't add at least 1 and more likely 2 top 6 forwards.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I was just about to post something very similar. I'd add Erik Cole to list of desirable free agents we were able to sign. Yes, he fell apart in year 2 but he was a legit player when we signed him.

To add to the undesirable part:

- Until Price broke out we have been pretty much a bubble team since Roy left. Guys look to see if they have a legit shot at a cup during their contract.

- We haven't really had a coaching staff that drew players in

- Wingers will tend to lean towards a team that has a real no 1 center they can play alongside.

Other than that as you said the pool has shrunk which has led to some horrible contracts being handed out (supply/demand). Some of the guys we've liked have gotten horrible contracts that would've ended up hurting.

Lastly, I think this is the best market we've had in years. There are plenty of solid UFAs, a very good draft, and there are a few decent trade names out there. I'd be in shock if he doesn't add at least 1 and more likely 2 top 6 forwards.

Great post. Forgot about Cole, who was definitely a desirable UFA. We could even add Hamrlik to that list if we wanted.

I think you're right that the lack of a #1C hurts us in attracting UFAs, as does, maybe, the perception that we're 'all Price and nothing else.' And there's no question that a certain type of player mindset is leery of the fishbowl. But I don't think that's a universal thing. Some guys, like Cammy and Subban, LOVE the idea of a high-profile market.

I doubt that Therrien is a huge disincentive to UFAs, myself, but it's worth speculating on.

Just to be clear, my point here has not been that the Habs are the #1 UFA destination or anything like that. I just doubt that we are a bottom-feeding, uncompetitive UFA destination. Most players will consider an offer from the Habs, IMHO.

[DON]

Great post. Forgot about Cole, who was definitely a desirable UFA. We could even add Hamrlik to that list if we wanted.

I think you're right that the lack of a #1C hurts us in attracting UFAs, as does, maybe, the perception that we're 'all Price and nothing else.' And there's no question that a certain type of player mindset is leery of the fishbowl. But I don't think that's a universal thing. Some guys, like Cammy and Subban, LOVE the idea of a high-profile market.

I doubt that Therrien is a huge disincentive to UFAs, myself, but it's worth speculating on.

Just to be clear, my point here has not been that the Habs are the #1 UFA destination or anything like that. I just doubt that we are a bottom-feeding, uncompetitive UFA destination. Most players will consider an offer from the Habs, IMHO.

Your deluding yourself, if you think Backes, Stamkos, Lucic, Ladd, Yandle, Goligski, Perron are hoping to get offer from Habs. And safe bet Eriksson and Okposo will come only if get better $ or term others wont offer.

[DON]

Great post. Forgot about Cole, who was definitely a desirable UFA. We could even add Hamrlik to that list if we wanted.

I think you're right that the lack of a #1C hurts us in attracting UFAs, as does, maybe, the perception that we're 'all Price and nothing else.' And there's no question that a certain type of player mindset is leery of the fishbowl. But I don't think that's a universal thing. Some guys, like Cammy and Subban, LOVE the idea of a high-profile market.

I doubt that Therrien is a huge disincentive to UFAs, myself, but it's worth speculating on.

Just to be clear, my point here has not been that the Habs are the #1 UFA destination or anything like that. I just doubt that we are a bottom-feeding, uncompetitive UFA destination. Most players will consider an offer from the Habs, IMHO.

All well and good you can scrape up 3 or 4 UFAs, but Gionta past best before date, no team wanted Squid (he is on his 6 or 7th team by now isn't he?), Hamerlik and Cole, Kovalev, Spacek were good signings of more old guys who were quite useless in playoffs weren't they?

So thanks, you really help prove my point.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

All well and good you can scrape up 3 or 4 UFAs, but Gionta past best before date, no team wanted Squid (he is on his 6 or 7th team by now isn't he?), Hamerlik and Cole, Kovalev, Spacek were good signings of more old guys who were quite useless in playoffs weren't they?

So thanks, you really help prove my point.

Whether they produced in the playoffs, were full value for money, or are the subject of an irrational hate-on on your part, has no bearing on whether they were in-demand UFAs. Which they were. They came here. Thereby proving that Montreal can attract in-demand UFAs. The end.

Now, I agree that we're not a *premium* UFA destination (although Petry arguably took a discount). So we have to pay full market rates in the bidding war for UFA services. That's true of most teams, though, surely.

(I also think that if last season had not been a disaster, we'd be in a better position. Most players seem to prioritize being part of a winning group).