Another win by the skin of their teeth

[Howie_Morenz]

Mark Napier I cannot argue with one thing you said. Yes Montreal is very-very-very-very lucky this year! They are also unlucky because they get caught with too many 5 on 3 penalties.

To be lucky you also have to be good. The offense on Montreal, combined with the hitting from Bulis, Higgins and Begin create lucky breaks. When I see a player from another team forced to blow a tire and the Habs score; that is a created lucky break.

I am in hope that Montreal can finnish 5th or 6th in the East. This would be a good target to shoot for as it is possible. And they will not get swelled heads like they might if they finnished 2nd over all in the league.

Montreal has to improve defensively, Jose has to stand up a little more instead of dropping to his Knees every shot, and Bulis has to pot a few to get his game to an unrealistic level. If I can see this all happen next game against Buffalo, I think they will be even MORE LUCKY!

Now where did I put my 4 leaf clover, lucky rabbits foot, that little green guy I found in the woods and...........

EDITED due to my horrible spelling!

[Edited on 2005/11/2 by Howie_Morenz]

[JMMR]

Its a picture from my computer

[Peter Puck]

We'll I agree that we could easily go on a losing streak and drop down to 8th or so. Or our rookies might not be able to keep up the good play for a whole NHL season. But ... our season is 15% over and we are in first (although Ottawa and Carolina have some games in hand). So far we have had one of the toughest schedules in the league, mainly because we are in the NorthEast division.

There is nothing wrong with 1 goal wins. Indeed if we want playoff success we need to be able to play well in close games. Because of the seeding system and the fact that Ottawa is better than us we really can't finish higher than the 4th seed (unless Hasek gets injured). But I do think we could finish with the 2nd or 3rd most points in the East.

I agree with ndmartinxyz that we have only been playing well in 2 out 3 periods in pretty much every game. I expect Julien will fix this and I hope Theodore will get back to his usual form. If so we will be a lot better and the games will not be so close.

I don't think most people appreciate how effective it is to have 4 quality lines. All 4 of our lines are legimate scoring threats and this makes it very tough to defend against us for 60 minutes. Also our speed is especially effective in overtime and so we have an excellent chance in any game which is tied after 60 minutes.

In summary, although we could fade for any number of reasons, I don't see any reason to think that we can't continue to stay in the top 3 in the East.

[redondo]

I'd like more dominance too, but this is a good for some of the kids on the team to break into the league - learning how to win at all costs and develop the killer mentality.

I'd say 4th in the East is possible based on talent we have, but ONLY if we have consistent goaltending. Theo's been a roller coaster ride this season, all the other problems (penalties, finishing) come a distant second.

[Mont Royale]

There is a good chance we are overachieving right now. I hope I'm wrong. We've already seen some cooling off of Pleks and Perez, IMO. They're rookies, so it's to be expected.

We've also shown an alarming tendency toward complacency when we get a one or two goal lead, which will cost us points if it continues; this has been exacerbated by bad penalties. We're not going to get a last second goal all the time. (We have to correct this, if only so Howie can avoid that long-threatened heart attack!)

On the plus side, it's these last minute efforts that indicate the best thing about this team. They're playing with confidence that they can respond to any situation they find themselves in. I have no worries in the character of this team; that won't go away.

[JMMR]

Well 4th in the east would be spectacular I cant even remember the last time we had round one home ice. And as for the rookies it’s hard to produce with 4th line ice but I imagine Perez will get another shot with the top 2 lines. I know Higgins is our future lock down centre and gets to play with Ribs and Ryder in the 3rd period as a defensive specialist. And Plex well he will do well I am sure of that he does make the odd mental error but is still getting PK time and his overall confidence will grow.

[The Iron Lung]

Good teams find a way to win. Montreal is a good team. They're not Ottawa but they're fast... speed is king these days.

[simonus]

it is quite evident watching this team that we are young and inexperience. That we are winning is fantastic, but as we learn (perhaps throughout this season, certainly over the course of the next few years) they will hopefully become elite.

Maybe it will happen sometime this year, maybe in the next, but we will develop a confident and capable corps that will know what they can do and know what they can't. Either at the deadline (probably unlikely) or in the offseason we will partially reform our D corp (impossible to know with accuracy who will need to leave and who to bring in).

We will fully define our goalie situation - not that theo is going anywhere, but rather whether it will be Danis or Huet and how many games will theo play. If it's Huet, do we send Danis back to the minors or do we try to move him to a goalie-poor team for some sort of D package.

Confidence, tempered by logic, is more than warranted. We have a great future ahead of us and sometimes that future comes more quickly than we expect (see Cleveland Indians).

[GuyRock70]

I can't believe all the negativity in this thread!. The Habs can compete with anybody in this league. You don't have to be in first or second place in the regular season to win the cup. A balanced attack and a hot goaltender is all that is required. I'm not predicting right here and now that we will win the cup, but I truly believe that we have a good chance. The key is Theodore. If he is hot, then I think that we can beat anybody. Let us not forget, we are talking about the Montreal Canadiens. The ghosts and magic of our glorious past can lift the team back to greatness when some might least expect it('71,'73,'86,'93). Obviously, I'm an optimist , but 24 Stanley Cups justifies this optimism!. :hlogo:

[Lister110]

The dream lives in all of us. What might look like negativity is only an attempt to keep ourselves in check. Nothing is worse than when Habs fans lose sight of the dream and turn off the tv's. We need die hard support even when we're losing.

[dark_faerie87]

I can't remember if this was the post complaining about our poor goal differential, but we now have 21 points and +6 while the Vancouver Canucks have 22 points and +8. Remind me again about what's wrong? Neither of our offences have really kicked in yet, we just have to have some patience.

[Mark Napier]

Nobody is being negative, just realistic. One goal games are often won as a matter of luck. In all the one goal victories the habs have had, a well timed misdirection or bad call by a ref could of switched the outcome of the game instantly. I'm not comfortable this team is as good as the standings suggest till I see some dominant 3 or 4 goal victories and games that aren't won in the dying minutes of the 3rd or overtime. These games could of so easily gone the other way and only a fan blinded by loyality won't see this. This is not a 2nd overall in the league team. If only those that were so optimistic about Stanley cup victories could see this then they might avoid disppointmint later. Don't get me wrong, this is a good team but I expect their record to start dropping because these type of wins just can't continue. This has to shift evetually. A lot of fans are starting to believe the hype and that is a dangerous thing for their own sake. The season is barely 10 games in and they're already planning the parade route. I thought Toronto fans were unrealistic. Think about it people, the habs haven't dominated a game yet this season. Not one. What does that tell you? Good team yes, elite team no. If the habs manage to finish 6th in the East I'll be happy and a little surprised. Don't know when this team turned into the next coming of the '76 Canadiens. Like I said, I perfer to be realistic and this team hasn't shown me that they are anything beyond a first round playoff team. There is no proof that they are anything beyond that. You really believe that they deserved to win against Buffalo tonight anymore than Buffalo did? Anyway I don't want to give the impression I don't like this team because I do. I just expect this house of cards to come crashing down. Geesh last year everyone was surprised we made the playoffs and now no one is batting an eye when there are suggestions of finishing in the top 2 in the league. This team is basically the same except for the addition of a few rookie that are doing well but certainly nothing earth shattering. Suddeny we're cup contenders. This is just laughable to me. Really I'm starting to feel a bit tired of coming here and hearing predictions of winning games 7-3 and so on and then when the team manages to squeek a goal in the dying minutes of the 3rd everyone acts like it was just the way they planned it. I can't handle so much gushing over a team that is just barely managing to get these victories and everyone is acting like this is the best team in the league. Really kind of sickening. Level headed is the way to play it and I follow this team with an objective eye. This team has been lucky and to say otherwise borders on stupidity. I hate to keep defending that point which is so obvious to anyone that has the slightest knowledge of hockey. But when the team starts dropping in the standing and assumes it rightful place where a team that only manages to keep winning 1 goal games belongs then I will be comforted in the fact that my realisim has prevented me from being disappointed. Meanwhile I don't know if I can keep posting here where most of you are so lacking in forethought that I need to argue over simple facts like that a team that can only win 1 goal games must surely be lucky. I don't have the patience to keep saying things that should be obvious to most and keep having my views dimissed as negativety. As soon as this team loses a couple of games you can be sure that the same people who are raving over the habs will be the first to jump off the bandwagon. Seen it a million times.

[Amandas_wicked]

i couldnt agree more. there is definatly room for improvement, or some fine tuning. too many unnessecary penalties for one. kovy and sours are going to have to think fast and act a little slower, or not at all if they can manage...there are a few other in the mix, but not as often. would be nice for them practice movin the puck a little more on the pp. maybe get a few more screens in front. but we are winning, so i guess i cant complain...yet(just kiddin). just imagine the potential if we do all the little thing

(getting a little off topic)

it was nice to hear alot of cheers tonight in buffalo when we were doin somethin. i thought we were playin in montreal the way it sounded. i even heard that "olay olay olay" song from the crowd a few times to. good stuff!!:hlogo::/)

[dark_faerie87]

I totally understand what you're saying Mark and I too believe that while we've been winning, they've been lucky wins. Mind you, every team needs a little luck here and there, but when you consider that the team as a whole has been underachieving up to this point, I think it should be interesting to see how they will perform once they hit their groove. I don't see the Habs as a division winner, but I think that if they consistently play well during the course of the season, there's no reason why they can't be a top 10 team. However, at the beginning of the season, I said I'd be happy if they end up 6th. If they do, great. If they get higher, even better. Even if they get 7th or 8th, I'll be disappointed, but still proud. I hope you don't view me as a bandwagon jumper, because I'm not, I'm just as realistic as you, but I'm excited by our hot start, even though I doubt it will last. But while it does, I'll be out there cheering my little heart out. And when hard times come, I'll still be here, cheering just as hard!

[shortcat1]

Originally posted by Amandas_wicked

i couldnt agree more. there is definatly room for improvement, or some fine tuning. too many unnessecary penalties for one. kovy and sours are going to have to think fast and act a little slower, or not at all if they can manage...there are a few other in the mix, but not as often. would be nice for them practice movin the puck a little more on the pp. maybe get a few more screens in front. but we are winning, so i guess i cant complain...yet(just kiddin). just imagine the potential if we do all the little thing

(getting a little off topic)

it was nice to hear alot of cheers tonight in buffalo when we were doin somethin. i thought we were playin in montreal the way it sounded. i even heard that "olay olay olay" song from the crowd a few times to. good stuff!!:hlogo::/)

Welcome to the gang, Amandas_wicked. I trust you'll have fun sharing in the discussions, the info and, of course, the total nutsyness of some of us... ok... most of us.

[BTH]

I'll agre about this game. We didn't play like a winning team. But we are a winning team. Know how you can tell? We won. The winning teams win even when they don't show up. If we can beat Buffalo, with a back-up goalie and with the team sleeping then we can beat them tonight with Theo and hopefully wide awake Habs.

And most of the 1-goal wins were closer than they should have been. The important thing is that we keep on winning.

You have to be good to be lucky.

[Howie_Morenz]

Originally posted by Bulis_the_Habbie

I'll agre about this game. We didn't play like a winning team. But we are a winning team. Know how you can tell? We won. The winning teams win even when they don't show up. If we can beat Buffalo, with a back-up goalie and with the team sleeping then we can beat them tonight with Theo and hopefully wide awake Habs.

And most of the 1-goal wins were closer than they should have been. The important thing is that we keep on winning.

You have to be good to be lucky.

You said it BTH. Its not about how much you win by, just win.

I don't expect the Habs to win every close game, because some will eventually go to the other teams. It is nice to see Montreal can win with a game on the line.

Next game a win would be nice but a convincing win would be so much better. Wonder if Biron gets the nod again?

[PurpleHills]

I'm happy they won but I, for one, am sick of these one goal victories! Can we just win the old fashioned kick-butt style please It's almost as if there's a script and a formula going:

Canadiens Score = Opponent's score +1

Basically, whatever the opposition scores, we will score exactly one more goal than they do. Why do the Canadiens have to play each game based on how their opponent plays. Can't they just play good all the time?

Maybe the Canadiens just need to feel a comeback victory aginst them. Maybe then they will learn to score more than the formula predicts, and score three or four goals more than the opposition. That way, even if the oppostion scores, they will still be up more than two.

The Canadiens are driving me crazy!!!

[mrgodo]

i prefer the one goal scores to the avalanches delivered by some teams. come playoff time, who's going to have more experience in tight games and be able to keep a level head? if you get used to leading by 3 or 4 and you're not, you're going to put it into your head that you need to be up by that many. then when you start to trail you'll just friggin' explode!!!

we don't have to be leading to win: we stay in the game, we come back and then we surprise them!

[Natural Mystic]

Originally posted by Mark Napier

Nobody is being negative, just realistic. One goal games are often won as a matter of luck.

Yes people are being "negative" to a certain extent. To predict something less than the top is being negative. Now you say you're being realistic. Well in reality montreal has a 10-3-1 record. And then finally speaking of luck.. well if they are lucky, so what? A past game, or period for that matter does NOT predict the future, it might have a say in the future, but when the zamboni goes over the ice anything can happen. The way I see it, its the other teams lack of desire to win that caused them to loose against montreal. Every team controls their own fate!

Originally posted by Mark NapierIn all the one goal victories the habs have had, a well timed misdirection or bad call by a ref could of switched the outcome of the game instantly.  These games could of so easily gone the other way and only a fan blinded by loyality won't see this.

Yea but you're forgetting something, these game were won by montreal. Shoots, scores, two points and the end of the game! It happened, its over, period.

Originally posted by Mark NapierDon't get me wrong,  this is a good team but I expect their record to start dropping because these type of wins just can't continue.

Maybe, maybe not. Honestly I'd rather just watch my favorite team in action. Why predict and expect anything less than first... if montreal felt and acted like that they wouldn't win.

Montreal is winning and people complain. Well go right ahead. I just needed to let it out. In my honest opinion, montreal is right behind ottawa in the east.

:ghg:

[Komisarek the Cruncher]

What's up with all this luck talk. Having a 9-2 record in 1 goal games is not luck, its called character :/)

As for luck, we keep having stupid calls against us (best example is Markov's penalty last night where it cancelled our powerplay and gave Buffalo a goal when Markov barely sneezed on the guy who fell on his own 2 seconds after Markov touching the guy).

Also, we keep hitting posts, missing breakaways (Bulis and Plekanec), having great saves against us (Biron on Kovalev last night), having unlucky rebounds in our own end that end up being easy goals for the other teams...on the contrary, when luck turns to our side, we will start to kill the opposition. We are presently winning without luck.

Just imagine when Theo gets sharper and we start having a few bounces on our side, it won't even be funny for the opposition.

Anyone that thinks that the Habs are going to start sliding down the rankings is blind. Please, give me a break with us ending up finishing maybe 6th or 7th in the conference. We will finish 4th. The only reason we won't finish higher is because we are in Ottawa's division, and even then, we are not far behind them (actually, they have to win their games in hand to be in front of us), so 1st place is still a possibility in my mind. Don't forget that Ottawa as no cap space, as we can still improve our team by the trade deadline.

More over, its Ottawa's final year of being ahead of us, because they won't be able to have a Hasek type goalie for a million $ next year and they won't be able to keep Havlat, Redden and Chara because of limited cap space. One or two will have to go. Ottawa can only be worst next year. Starting next year, the Habs will be the Eastern conference team to beat :/) Actually, they almost already are...

:ghg: :ghg: :ghg:

[Lexrst]

What's up with you anyway Napier. I'm not sure how long you have been following hockey but apparently not very long. I can tell you this from 30 years of following the NHL and the Habs - winning by one goal is OK! In fact its the mark of not only a good team, but a special team!

Now you are right lets temper our enthusiasm, its early in the year but not only are the signs positive so far - they are special! This many one goals wins and third period combacks say one thing - character. All the greatest teams have shown this ability. I have seen every habs game this year and with the exception of the first two periods last night - where yes indeed they lack some enthusiasm, they have played hard and have shown absolutely no quit. When is that last time I've seen that, hum - 1993! In fact, this team seems so much like that group. The 93 habs became known as the Cardiac Kids for their late game herorics and they way they kept us on the edge of our seats to the last moment. They also seem familair by the number of rookies in the lineup contributing. Another group of habs, the 1986 edition was similar.

And another point, I think perdictions are for idiots. We have had no hockey for over a year. The lineups of many teams have fundamentally changed. The balance of power has shifted and the playing field has levelled. I don't think anyone at this point has any real idea how good many teams are and who is going to be on the top when the season ends. Anything can happen over the course of a 82 game schedule and a short playoff series. Can they win the cup this year? Of course they can. But so can perhaps 15 other teams. I think its not far off to suggest that the Habs are one of the top 6 teams in the east and one of the top 10 teams in the league. You mean to tell me the habs are not better than at least 20 other teams in this league right now and on paper? Not only that, I agree with you they probably can play better. So Napier I think you may underestimate this team, so lets wait and se where we are at XMas before we have perdictions of doom and gloom. I've been watchng hockey for long time my friend and I have a sense this is not a group you want to underestimate.

[shortcat1]

Originally posted by Lexrst

What's up with you anyway Napier. I'm not sure how long you have been following hockey but apparently not very long. I can tell you this from 30 years of following the NHL and the Habs - winning by one  goal is OK! In fact its the mark of not only a good team, but a special team!

Now you are right lets temper our enthusiasm, its early in the year but not only are the signs positive so far - they are special! This many one goals wins and third period combacks say one thing - character. All the greatest teams have shown this ability. I have seen every habs game this year and with the exception of the first two periods last night - where yes indeed they lack some enthusiasm, they have played hard and have shown absolutely no quit. When is that last time I've seen that, hum - 1993! In fact, this team seems so much like that group. The 93 habs became known as the Cardiac Kids for their late game herorics and they way they kept us on the edge of our seats to the last moment. They also seem familair by the number of rookies in the lineup contributing. Another group of habs, the 1986 edition was similar.

And another point, I think perdictions are for idiots. We have had no hockey for over a year. The lineups of many teams have fundamentally changed. The balance of power has shifted and the playing field has levelled.

As to the 'special team' description, I agree. The number of rookies in the line-up and the resulting competition for positions has upped the intensity on the team. The addition of Kovalev brings a strength and ability that the team has lacked for many years, I'd say since the days of Bobby Smith and/or Kirk Muller.

As to the 86 edition, there were up to 6 or 7 rookies in that line-up (7 if one includes John Kordik who did play in the playoffs). There aren't as many this year but the atmosphere is very much the same.

As to the 'playing field' being 'leveled', I don't agree. There are still Detroits & Ottawas & Vancouvers (?) & Montreals(?) as there are still Washingtons & Atlantas & Columbus' & Chicagos & Pittsburgs (?). Talk about a disparity!

I believe that the levelling off of the field will gradually come into effect over the years but it's not here yet.

For that matter, the playing field will never be 'level'. We'll NEVER see a situation when the Stanley Cup is 'universally' up for grabs.

The financial factor will never be as great but there will always be the in-built depth factor. From here on in, I believe that whoever drafts most successfully, nurtures and develops their prospects most efficiently, trades most astutely, etc... those will be the stronger teams. As a result, the centers of power, if you will, will change over the years.

And there you have the wisdom from a wise old man... older than you, sonny.

[Edited on 2005/11/5 by shortcat1]

[shortcat1]

Originally posted by Lexrst

What's up with you anyway Napier. I'm not sure how long you have been following hockey but apparently not very long. I can tell you this from 30 years of following the NHL and the Habs - winning by one  goal is OK! In fact its the mark of not only a good team, but a special team!

Now you are right lets temper our enthusiasm, its early in the year but not only are the signs positive so far - they are special! This many one goals wins and third period combacks say one thing - character. All the greatest teams have shown this ability. I have seen every habs game this year and with the exception of the first two periods last night - where yes indeed they lack some enthusiasm, they have played hard and have shown absolutely no quit. When is that last time I've seen that, hum - 1993! In fact, this team seems so much like that group. The 93 habs became known as the Cardiac Kids for their late game herorics and they way they kept us on the edge of our seats to the last moment. They also seem familair by the number of rookies in the lineup contributing. Another group of habs, the 1986 edition was similar.

And another point, I think perdictions are for idiots. We have had no hockey for over a year. The lineups of many teams have fundamentally changed. The balance of power has shifted and the playing field has levelled. I don't think anyone at this point has any real idea how good many teams are and who is going to be on the top when the season ends. Anything can happen over the course of a 82 game schedule and a short playoff series. Can they win the cup this year? Of course they can. But so can perhaps 15 other teams.  I think its not far off to suggest that the Habs are one of the top 6 teams in the east and one of the top 10 teams in the league. You mean to tell me the habs are not better than at least 20 other teams in this league right now and on paper? Not only that, I agree with you they probably can play better. So Napier I think you may underestimate this team, so lets wait and se where we are at XMas before we have perdictions of doom and gloom. I've been watchng hockey for long time my friend and I have a sense this is not a group you want to underestimate.

By the way, Lexrst, welcome to the gang! You'll enjoy a whole lot of stuff... a whole lot of discussion, a whole lot of info sharing, a whole lot of variety of opinions, a whole lot of fun, if this is fun for you and, best of all, a whole lot of absolute craziness... :eyes::lol:

[BTH]

Originally posted by Lexrst

What's up with you anyway Napier. I'm not sure how long you have been following hockey but apparently not very long. I can tell you this from 30 years of following the NHL and the Habs - winning by one  goal is OK! In fact its the mark of not only a good team, but a special team!

Now you are right lets temper our enthusiasm, its early in the year but not only are the signs positive so far - they are special! This many one goals wins and third period combacks say one thing - character. All the greatest teams have shown this ability. I have seen every habs game this year and with the exception of the first two periods last night - where yes indeed they lack some enthusiasm, they have played hard and have shown absolutely no quit. When is that last time I've seen that, hum - 1993! In fact, this team seems so much like that group. The 93 habs became known as the Cardiac Kids for their late game herorics and they way they kept us on the edge of our seats to the last moment. They also seem familair by the number of rookies in the lineup contributing. Another group of habs, the 1986 edition was similar.

And another point, I think perdictions are for idiots. We have had no hockey for over a year. The lineups of many teams have fundamentally changed. The balance of power has shifted and the playing field has levelled. I don't think anyone at this point has any real idea how good many teams are and who is going to be on the top when the season ends. Anything can happen over the course of a 82 game schedule and a short playoff series. Can they win the cup this year? Of course they can. But so can perhaps 15 other teams.  I think its not far off to suggest that the Habs are one of the top 6 teams in the east and one of the top 10 teams in the league. You mean to tell me the habs are not better than at least 20 other teams in this league right now and on paper? Not only that, I agree with you they probably can play better. So Napier I think you may underestimate this team, so lets wait and se where we are at XMas before we have perdictions of doom and gloom. I've been watchng hockey for long time my friend and I have a sense this is not a group you want to underestimate.

Well, I for one thing it was well said. And shortcat1 he's actually pretty close to your age. Within 15 years I'd say.

I still can't believe how you're 41 years older than me! You should be in an old age home or something.