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Open-door Theodore's Play


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Originally posted by PB

I can't disagree with you KomisarekCrunch,...yes I was sacarstic with your posts and played them down.....as they seem to me flawed by an urgency to persuade and a tendency to denigrate over being interesting in any kind of ways.

I tend to see the Habs this year in a similard way Yvan Cournoyer see them....''as the best edition he's seen in years '' so its hard

for me to relate with the nighmarish experience you'r having with it.

Your frustrations are simply out of context to be considered any more seriously than they should.

Since when have I said that they're not the best edition in years?

My nightmarish experience is related to the guy in net.PERIOD. Why does everybody keeps bringing other subjects in this thread...the thread is about Theo, nothing else. Propably because none of you can bring actual facts and reasonable thoughts to back up your blinded love for Theo.

I'm having a blast this season with our "Glorieux". I'm just very concerned about the future and the playoffs with Mr. Big Head in net. The guy is too inconsistent to lead a team threw 4 rounds of playoffs. Proof, he played some games well vs. Boston and some were horrible but managed to get threw but against Tampa is was weak fram A to Z.

If being worried about winning the cup is out of context, then go be a Senators fan, there good in the seasons and lousy in the playoffs, they should satisfy your simple needs.

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Originally posted by bar

Yeah, so...we're leading our division.

Theodore hasn't been great, but we're leading our divison.

The power play hasn't been good, at all...but we're leading our division.

We take too many penalties, way too many...but we're leading our division.

The goalies AROUND the league aren't having stellar seasons, the dimensions on the ice have changed, goalie equipment has changed, give it some time before you start pressing the panic button, seriously, you know who you are sounding like:

*thunder noise*

Leaf fans.

I said it, thats right leaf fans. Lets not turn into leaf fans.

*Guards the trade button*

Haha bring on the flames.

You guys are blind. We are leading the division, temporarely because ottawa has games in hands, only due to the quality of the teams play (excluding Theo). We dominate are games, so we don't need a good goalie. Any goalie would have done the same abd even better then Theo. Look at Emery in Ottawa, he's 4-0 because of the team. Look at Lagace, last time I checked, he wasn't among the elite goalies, but Detroit is playing great in front of him. Man, I have to explain everything to blinded Theo lovers.

Look at the other goalies, they have all improved drastically in the past 2-3 weeks except Theo.

Kiprusoff is awesome now.

Brodeur played great in his 2 games back.

Turco is also playing great again.

Blablabla, its old news that the goalies are having problems, most if not all elite goalies (except Theo) as improved drastically. Go look at the goalie stats.

Can't wait for some of you to crack down eventually and start realizing that Theo is nothing more then a media overhyped machine. The guy plays golf all summer long and is buddy with some of the most important journalists here in Montreal, of course they're ging to make him this superstar.

People not living in Montreal have no idea how protected he is by the journalists here and many living in Montreal are fooled and blinded by the medias. Especially the french medias. At least the english media as the decency of writting the actuak fcats, which is that he's struggling big time.

WAKE UP GUYS!!!

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THis is not entirely Theodores fault. The entire team isn't playing that well, from an inconsistent Theodore, to forwards lazy backchecking, to a defensman not picking up a check, to not burying a scoring chance.....contrary to popular belief that the Canadiens are running into a hot goaltender every night, its simply lack of finishing that has them barely winning 1 goal games when there outshooting opponets by 10 shots or more. ITs a team effort and no single person is to blame

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Sorry guys, a team does not get a record like the Habs do and be at the top of the conference if the goaltending is consistently sub-par. Yes, Theo has been inconsistent; yes there are some shots he should have stopped. is there a perfect goalie in the NHL? I haven't heard of one.

The bottom line is Danis is not ready. It would be an enormous act of stupidity to trade Theo without getting a top-notch goaltender back. I couldnt in my worst nightmare see BG doing that.

So who are you going to get to replace him? John Graham? Cujo?!! Don't make me laugh.

The only way I would be in favour of trading Theo is if Keenan completely loses his mind and trades us Luongo, Boumeester and a 2nd round pick for Theo, Dags and a 1st round pick. :lol:

It's not going to happen.

Relax, the team is winning and Jose will round into form. It wouldn't hurt to give Danis a start though. He needs more NHL experience in case JT gets hurt.

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Originally posted by Prime Minister Koivu

He hasn't even had one solid season. His Vezna year you say? BLEH....he played good for 20 games.

I have no problem with you (or anybody else) not being a Theodore fan, but that statement is just ridiculous beyond belief. How soon we forget.

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Here's a good assessment of Theo's play so far this season:

http://thefourthperiod.com/goalrank.html

WOW, 21st in the league and I'm supposed to believe that we're first because of him?

Proof that our record is due to the other players, not Theo. We would have the same record if not better if we had another goalie.

Hopefully he will improve, but if he doesn't, we will become the new Senators, great season but goodbye in the playoffs because of weak goaltending...

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Originally posted by Komisarek the Cruncher
Originally posted by PB

I can't disagree with you KomisarekCrunch,...yes I was sacarstic with your posts and played them down.....as they seem to me flawed by an urgency to persuade and a tendency to denigrate over being interesting in any kind of ways.

I tend to see the Habs this year in a similard way Yvan Cournoyer see them....''as the best edition he's seen in years '' so its hard

for me to relate with the nighmarish experience you'r having with it.

Your frustrations are simply out of context to be considered any more seriously than they should.

Since when have I said that they're not the best edition in years?

My nightmarish experience is related to the guy in net.PERIOD. Why does everybody keeps bringing other subjects in this thread...the thread is about Theo, nothing else. Propably because none of you can bring actual facts and reasonable thoughts to back up your blinded love for Theo.

I'm having a blast this season with our "Glorieux". I'm just very concerned about the future and the playoffs with Mr. Big Head in net. The guy is too inconsistent to lead a team threw 4 rounds of playoffs. Proof, he played some games well vs. Boston and some were horrible but managed to get threw but against Tampa is was weak fram A to Z.

If being worried about winning the cup is out of context, then go be a Senators fan, there good in the seasons and lousy in the playoffs, they should satisfy your simple needs.

So yes, like Cournoyer I share the same anthousiasm for what this year's CH's edition as been offering us compared with the last many years........despite any number of particular flaws which can be found therein.

The job for Julien, just like any other coach, is to create a winning situation out of an un-perfect team in the here and now.... while the work of the GM, being done in a more complexe environment is mostly efficient at trying improving his team's concerns over a period of time that is very different than the coach.

Your focusing on a single element of this overall context is disproportionate,.... and raging over it is outrasgeously silly,...slow down on your pernicious crusade as your Holy Land is taking you fast away from the '' blast '' you had in Habs Land not to long ago.

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From reading all these negative comments about Theo especially the ridiculous one about his Vezina & Hart year I can't help but wonder what Gretzky and all his brain thrust must be thinking when they have Theo rated as one of the top 3 goalies for the Olympic team, perhaps they should take some advise from all of you

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Originally posted by Mont Royale
Originally posted by Prime Minister Koivu

He hasn't even had one solid season. His Vezna year you say? BLEH....he played good for 20 games.

I have no problem with you (or anybody else) not being a Theodore fan, but that statement is just ridiculous beyond belief. How soon we forget.

Some 'fans' have absolutely ridiculous expectations from their goalies.

You'll always find idiotic comments like that from fans who look at boxscores and scan recaps.

Komisarek the Cruncher was probably that fool that called into the CJAD post-game show a few weeks ago whining about Theodore, only to be told off by the host.

Last game against the Leafs, none of the goals were Theodore's fault.

It's absolutely ridiculous how little some 'fans' know about this game. Mostly because none of them have actually ever played hockey, or even actually sat through an entire game.

Montreal has had great goalies for too long.

I say Montreal should bring in Cloutier, let him play 1 series in the playoffs. Then these Theodore haters can go hide in shame, and leave the real hockey fans to real hockey talk. It'll be worth it.

[Edited on 2005/11/14 by Ribeiro]

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I woudlnt trade Theo for any other goalie but two... Henrik Lundqvist or Roberto Loungo. btw. Since komisarekthecrusher said he would be ashamed to let any of the goals in from the toronto game... why wont we put him in the net? He sounds REALLY good :)

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Wow, so much passion in this thread. I'm kidda thinking that 5.3M is too much for Theo AND I think we did the best thing by signing him to the contract we signed him to.

I just think the Habs are an earthly organization that has to do the best with what they have in the real world. The situation they have/had is this: BG had a goalie last summer who is one of the better starters in the league and who was to become a free agent at the end of the year with many teams sure to be highly interested in siging him. 5.3M is "objectively" too high for his services and BG probably knows this, but BG also knows that prices aren't set in a vaccum they are set with reference to a market and the market does set a price at about that for Theo (UFA next summer, several awards, one of the better starters, game breaking ability, still young, numerous teams without a solid goalie, numerous teams thinking solid goalies are essential to winning, etc.). BG also has just drafted a top goalie prospect and has a strong farm of unproven goalies in the system. 5.3M is too much, but is the price that has to be paid to get the ONLY proven better end goalie that he can get right now. He makes it a 3 year deal so that, if the very good prospect he just drafted or another younster proves that he can pick up the torch by then, he will be in a very good position to significantly better his cap position with a cheap talented goalie.

Why am I stating this? Because I don't think anything has changed. The Habs, as a serious organization with a chance at winning now and in the near future, are not going to trade their proven better end starting goalie for a mediocre one and a forward that really won't change much. They aren't going to trade him for a "star" forward either (someone actually mentionned St-Louis here - God I wouln't touch him and his 6!!! year contract with a 10 foot poll, that was a move of desperation by TB) and be without a proven starter. What happens if Theo is moved and we get say Richards (sticking to TB, why not) and Danis can't after all be an adequate starter in the NHL? Worse, what if Price also sucks? Second half of the 90s again anyone.

Theo doesn't "objectively" deserve 5.3M a year IMHO, but at the same time Theo's correct salary in the real world (taking into account his situation described above and the market) is pretty much around that. Can the organization and the fans want more from him, no doubt. Has he been so bad that the Habs should complete re-set their whole long term goaltending strategy and rush him out anytime soon? Absolutely not. It's just not going to happen, unless something really major comes up in his play, the Habs are going to stay their long term course and rightfully so. I'm hoping Theo becomes more consistent (because he has had his moments of brilliance this year) and so is everybody, but I really haven't seen anything to lead me to think that a huge gamble will need to be taken by the Habs by going the way of a fundamental shakeup of their long term plans for the team. Maybe I'm just the prudent type that doesn't like throwing away wise long term business plans on a whim.

[Edited on 2005/11/14 by Rooster]

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Rooster, nice post. I'm thinking Mr. Gainey is also the prudent type, as well. I'm hoping so.

The anti-Theo crowd will be happy to know that Danis is getting the start Tuesday night. He'll try to win his 6th this year (3rd in this league) - go Yannie Danis!

(transparent attempt to change topic and let the thread die a natural death...)

[Edited on 2005/11/14 by Mont Royale]

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Originally posted by Mont Royale

Rooster, nice post.  I'm thinking Mr. Gainey is also the prudent type, as well.  I'm hoping so.

The anti-Theo crowd will be happy to know that Danis is getting the start Tuesday night.  He'll try to win his 6th this year (3rd in this league) - go Yannie Danis!

Off topic: yep, yann getting his 3th start on monday. Does anybody know what's going to happen with Huet?

Habs recall Lapierre, assign Huet to Hamilton

http://www.canadiens.com/eng/news/redirect...newsItemID=4527

[Edited on 15-11-05 by mathieug]

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As transparent an account of reality as it can get,..bravo ROOSTER.

'' Maybe I'm just the prudent type that doesn't like throwing away wise long term business plans on a whim'',....Or maybe you are just an intelligent person that happen to be a Habs fan among other things.

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Danis gets the start I think that is good. Theo has been playing much better as of late. The leafs game he had 2 bad breaks and the penguins game he was beaten by destiny, that is to say Crosby was destined to score that goal. Furthermore Theo has always struggled in the beginning of the year it is the playoffs when he hits his stride and as a fan of the Habs I would have it no other way. Roosters post was an excellent one. Bob Gainey made the right decision and when the playoffs start Theo will earn his money, and that’s all that counts, we all know the habs are a playoff team this year, lets just see how far they go.

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I'm going to start my reply by saying I love Theodore, I think he's a great goalie with loads of potential. However, whoever thinks Theo has been playing well this season, or even in the last 1-2 weeks, has to be high. You only have to look at his SV% at under 90% to see this. Yes Allison's goal was a fluke on Saturday night. But can you count how many times Belfour came up with a great save just when the Leafs needed it? Theodore, in my opinion, has not done it. He didn't do it last season, although he did a few times in the playoffs and was also stellar in the playoffs before that against Boston with that behind the back save. Ponikarovsky's goal was trash, he was there for O'Neill's shot in OT as well, but he has been letting in way too many weak goals. Ok, I can give you that O'Neill's shot was great and picked the top corner, although I feel that Theo was there and should have been able to cut down the angle. I admit his rebound control has improved but his play still shows a lot to be desired. He hasn't made many clutch saves this year and we're lucky so far that our team has had the character to come bk so many times and win so many 1 goal games. I don't think he's lived up to his 5.3M price tag, but with his worth in a salary cap market with very few excellent goalies being at Theo's level, BG did the right thing to sign him to that contract. But let's hope his play changes :ghg:

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Originally posted by Komisarek the Cruncher

You guys are blind. We are leading the division, temporarely because ottawa has games in hands, only due to the quality of the teams play (excluding Theo). We dominate are games, so we don't need a good goalie. Any goalie would have done the same abd even better then Theo. Look at Emery in Ottawa, he's 4-0 because of the team. Look at Lagace, last time I checked, he wasn't among the elite goalies, but Detroit is playing great in front of him. Man, I have to explain everything to blinded Theo lovers.

Look at the other goalies, they have all improved drastically in the past 2-3 weeks except Theo.

Kiprusoff is awesome now.

Brodeur played great in his 2 games back.

Turco is also playing great again.

Blablabla, its old news that the goalies are having problems, most if not all elite goalies (except Theo) as improved drastically. Go look at the goalie stats.

Can't wait for some of you to crack down eventually and start realizing that Theo is nothing more then a media overhyped machine. The guy plays golf all summer long and is buddy with some of the most important journalists here in Montreal, of course they're ging to make him this superstar.

People not living in Montreal have no idea how protected he is by the journalists here and many living in Montreal are fooled and blinded by the medias. Especially the french medias. At least the english media as the decency of writting the actuak fcats, which is that he's struggling big time.

WAKE UP GUYS!!!

First I want to say that I agree 100% with Rooster.

Second I think most goalies are struggling with the new rules. K the C suggests Kiprosoff, Brodeur and Turco are better. Brodeur and Turco are below Theodore in the 4th period ratings (as is Belfour). In fact the only eastern conference starters with significantly better rating scores then Theodore are Hasek, Lunogo, Lundqvist and to a lesser extent Ryan Miller. Comparisons between East and West are pretty pointless until there have been some games between East and West. Also don't forget that we have had one of the toughest schedules so far.

Theodore like most goalies is having trouble adjusting and for sure some have done better than others but who could we trade Theo for?

Graham was mentioned but again he is below Theodore in the rankings. Relying on Danis is not realistic at this stage. He has not yet played 180 minutes in the NHL. Trading for a cheaper goalie who is not as good gives us cap room but doesn't help the team unless we can find a star to spend the extra money on. The star will have to be very good if his presence is to make up for a downgrade in goal.

Theodore might not be the goalie we need. Dryden once said that a good goalie on a weak team is not neccessarily going to be a good goalie on a strong team. But we have plenty of problems (powerplay, lack of finishing, lack of an offensive defenseman, taking too many penalties) that are more pressing than our goaltending. We have most of the season (at least until the trade deadline) to see if Theodore can work the kinks out of his game.

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Originally posted by Dalhabs

I woudlnt trade Theo for any other goalie but two... Henrik Lundqvist or Roberto Loungo. btw. Since komisarekthecrusher said he would be ashamed to let any of the goals in from the toronto game... why wont we put him in the net? He sounds REALLY good :)

Funny man.

Perfect example of NOT being able to read properly and being stuck in your own world of ideas.

I said that the 1st, 2nd and 5th goals should have been stopped, at least 2 of them.

There are so many people writing things and quoting things from god knows where that its hard to have a realistic discussion about anything on this site...

[Edited on 2005/11/16 by Komisarek the Cruncher]

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Originally posted by Peter Puck

Theodore might not be the goalie we need. Dryden once said that a good goalie on a weak team is not neccessarily going to be a good goalie on a strong team.

Here's the most intelligent comment I've seen about Theo from someone.

I wrote the exact same thing in one of my posts. Watch and see guys, Theo is not the guy we need.

Theo's great performances and big saves have always come in games we are bombarded. Also, there was no pressure 3 years ago as there was no expectation on the team because it was lousy...now its a whole new situation.

Theo as a very weak concentration level and always gives bad goals in games where we dominate and he gets few shots. I've almost never seen him make great saves in games where he gets under 25 shots.

As for Bob, I'm sure that Theo is not in is long term plans...can you spell PRICE.

Maybe he was great for us back then, but I seriously that he can be a great goalie for a dominante team. He needs plenty of action to be good and he won't get it anymore now that we are a dominating team.

I agree that trading him now is probably not the best move because we wouldn't be getting a fair return at this stage of the season. Look at Fedorov's trade, Columbus gave almost nothing in return. But idealy, if we had a solution to replace him, I would trade him now before his contract and performances make him difficult to trade.

All this to say that this is only my opinion and every single one of you who made fun of my comments are just immature kids who need a serious dose of growing up. Its so much easier to make a stupid comment then to actually bring actual facts and thoughts to a discussion.

Honestly guys, since when as insulting and laughing of someone brought anything constructive to an argument?

Hatred only brings even more hatred. Quite pathetic to read some people's comments.

Good thing I don't fall so easily in this type of shamefulness.:nono:

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Originally posted by Komisarek the Cruncher
Originally posted by Peter Puck

Theodore might not be the goalie we need. Dryden once said that a good goalie on a weak team is not neccessarily going to be a good goalie on a strong team.

Here's the most intelligent comment I've seen about Theo from someone.

I wrote the exact same thing in one of my posts. Watch and see guys, Theo is not the guy we need.

Theo's great performances and big saves have always come in games we are bombarded. Also, there was no pressure 3 years ago as there was no expectation on the team because it was lousy...now its a whole new situation.

Theo as a very weak concentration level and always gives bad goals in games where we dominate and he gets few shots. I've almost never seen him make great saves in games where he gets under 25 shots.

As for Bob, I'm sure that Theo is not in is long term plans...can you spell PRICE.

Maybe he was great for us back then, but I seriously that he can be a great goalie for a dominante team. He needs plenty of action to be good and he won't get it anymore now that we are a dominating team.

I agree that trading him now is probably not the best move because we wouldn't be getting a fair return at this stage of the season. Look at Fedorov's trade, Columbus gave almost nothing in return. But idealy, if we had a solution to replace him, I would trade him now before his contract and performances make him difficult to trade.

All this to say that this is only my opinion and every single one of you who made fun of my comments are just immature kids who need a serious dose of growing up. Its so much easier to make a stupid comment then to actually bring actual facts and thoughts to a discussion.

Honestly guys, since when as insulting and laughing of someone brought anything constructive to an argument?

Hatred only brings even more hatred. Quite pathetic to read some people's comments.

Good thing I don't fall so easily in this type of shamefulness.:nono:

You are entitled to your opinion, although I must say a lot of people disagree with you. When you look at the teams goaltending prospects however there is merit to what your saying, they didn't draft a goalie #1 for no reason and Danis is certainly showing great potential so Theo certainly could be moved in the next couple of years but I don't believe it's going to happen anytime soon as he is our only proven starter. Theo has played well enough this year to enable us to be where we are and I truly believe that his performance will get better as the season wears on :hlogo:
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Originally posted by olematelot
Originally posted by Komisarek the Cruncher
Originally posted by Peter Puck

Theodore might not be the goalie we need. Dryden once said that a good goalie on a weak team is not neccessarily going to be a good goalie on a strong team.

Here's the most intelligent comment I've seen about Theo from someone.

I wrote the exact same thing in one of my posts. Watch and see guys, Theo is not the guy we need.

Theo's great performances and big saves have always come in games we are bombarded. Also, there was no pressure 3 years ago as there was no expectation on the team because it was lousy...now its a whole new situation.

Theo as a very weak concentration level and always gives bad goals in games where we dominate and he gets few shots. I've almost never seen him make great saves in games where he gets under 25 shots.

As for Bob, I'm sure that Theo is not in is long term plans...can you spell PRICE.

Maybe he was great for us back then, but I seriously that he can be a great goalie for a dominante team. He needs plenty of action to be good and he won't get it anymore now that we are a dominating team.

I agree that trading him now is probably not the best move because we wouldn't be getting a fair return at this stage of the season. Look at Fedorov's trade, Columbus gave almost nothing in return. But idealy, if we had a solution to replace him, I would trade him now before his contract and performances make him difficult to trade.

All this to say that this is only my opinion and every single one of you who made fun of my comments are just immature kids who need a serious dose of growing up. Its so much easier to make a stupid comment then to actually bring actual facts and thoughts to a discussion.

Honestly guys, since when as insulting and laughing of someone brought anything constructive to an argument?

Hatred only brings even more hatred. Quite pathetic to read some people's comments.

Good thing I don't fall so easily in this type of shamefulness.:nono:

You are entitled to your opinion, although I must say a lot of people disagree with you. When you look at the teams goaltending prospects however there is merit to what your saying, they didn't draft a goalie #1 for no reason and Danis is certainly showing great potential so Theo certainly could be moved in the next couple of years but I don't believe it's going to happen anytime soon as he is our only proven starter. Theo has played well enough this year to enable us to be where we are and I truly believe that his performance will get better as the season wears on :hlogo:

No you're wrong there, olematelot, I don't think anyone would disagree with Komisarek the Cruncher's opening position in his latest post. :)

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I agree that Theo has not been at the top of his game, but to suggest trading him is ridiculous. He has proven his mettle in the playoffs and will do so again I'm sure. There are very few goalies in the league more valuble than Theodore,just ask Gretzky.:hlogo:

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its obvious that theo could be playing better this year, yet the team is 1st in the Eastern conference......and its not just because ottawa has 3 games in hand:eyes: so hes damn well playing good enough!!!!!

why shake up the team, which it would more than any other deal, by trading theo???

i think that Rooster summed up most of my thoughts about the long term plan of the habs so i wont bother rewriting this stuff. but one thing i will say is that if latendresse and price work out, this team will look much different in two years anyway.........

singing "come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another, right now":lol:

:ghg:

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Originally posted by Peter Puck
Originally posted by olematelot
Originally posted by Komisarek the Cruncher
Originally posted by Peter Puck

Theodore might not be the goalie we need. Dryden once said that a good goalie on a weak team is not neccessarily going to be a good goalie on a strong team.

Here's the most intelligent comment I've seen about Theo from someone.

I wrote the exact same thing in one of my posts. Watch and see guys, Theo is not the guy we need.

Theo's great performances and big saves have always come in games we are bombarded. Also, there was no pressure 3 years ago as there was no expectation on the team because it was lousy...now its a whole new situation.

Theo as a very weak concentration level and always gives bad goals in games where we dominate and he gets few shots. I've almost never seen him make great saves in games where he gets under 25 shots.

As for Bob, I'm sure that Theo is not in is long term plans...can you spell PRICE.

Maybe he was great for us back then, but I seriously that he can be a great goalie for a dominante team. He needs plenty of action to be good and he won't get it anymore now that we are a dominating team.

I agree that trading him now is probably not the best move because we wouldn't be getting a fair return at this stage of the season. Look at Fedorov's trade, Columbus gave almost nothing in return. But idealy, if we had a solution to replace him, I would trade him now before his contract and performances make him difficult to trade.

All this to say that this is only my opinion and every single one of you who made fun of my comments are just immature kids who need a serious dose of growing up. Its so much easier to make a stupid comment then to actually bring actual facts and thoughts to a discussion.

Honestly guys, since when as insulting and laughing of someone brought anything constructive to an argument?

Hatred only brings even more hatred. Quite pathetic to read some people's comments.

Good thing I don't fall so easily in this type of shamefulness.:nono:

You are entitled to your opinion, although I must say a lot of people disagree with you. When you look at the teams goaltending prospects however there is merit to what your saying, they didn't draft a goalie #1 for no reason and Danis is certainly showing great potential so Theo certainly could be moved in the next couple of years but I don't believe it's going to happen anytime soon as he is our only proven starter. Theo has played well enough this year to enable us to be where we are and I truly believe that his performance will get better as the season wears on :hlogo:

No you're wrong there, olematelot, I don't think anyone would disagree with Komisarek the Cruncher's opening position in his latest post. :)

:lol::clap: Good one.

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