smon Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I can't believe some Habs fans knock Koivu. I mean come on, yes he's not a superstar but the intensity/passion he puts out every night. I'd call Francis Bouillon the defenseman version of Saku Koivu! And yeah, these kinds of players tend to get overrated, but at least you know that there are 3 guys on the Habs who play their guts out: Begin, Bouillon and Koivu. On the flipside you have insanely talented but frustratingly lazy or inconsistent players such as Kovalev, Zednik, and Ribiero. Besides, Koivu had a decent year last season...you can make the argument that Michael Ryder is not a 1st line talent; after all when Higgins was put with Koivu it was lights out. Perhaps Koivu lacked a winger who had enough speed to get to the puck.. The one thing that puzzles me so is why Kovalev and Koivu didn't get much going together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 (edited) You stop talking now injuries happen often and koivu first line center a joke, man when you watch the games do you just focus on what u see going in the net? koivu brings a lot more then some morons think. 1.Passion 2.Dedication 3.Skill 4.Leadership 5.Sacrifice Koivu is good in many aspects so hes small and he gets injured im going to give Koivu problems when he came back from cancer that eye injury was his fault too i sapose, you need to open your eyes and see what happens not only in the back of the net but off and on the ice, Dont always watch that frozen rubber puck! as soon as i saw what you said i couldn't even read the rest of your post, and Koivu > Ryder Big diffrence don't Compare the Two Edited July 7, 2006 by kaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 The one thing that puzzles me so is why Kovalev and Koivu didn't get much going together. So we can even out the lines. Management decided that there were 2 first line talents on the Habs and that we should try and have 2 good scoring lines instead of one. That's one of the problems that Zednik had - he was taken away from his great linemates. That just goes to show of a player we also thought was a good (a THIRTY goal scorer) who played well but then when given worse linemates, his real talent was revealed. Hey, I remember just talking about this. Sounds a lot like Ryder. I may be a moron, but atleast I can speak proper english. Sapose? What the hell is that? Try some grammar and punctuation, it'll make your posts a little easier to read and understand True. It bothers me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Also, like you argue that Ryder is goalscorer so it doesn't matter about his playmaking, well Koivu is a playmaker so I guess it doesn't really matter about his goalscoring abilities. Not that he wouldn't have scored 20 goals had be been healthy. It's true that never being healthy is a legit knock on a player but when the injuries are cancer, getting a high stick underneath his visor or something then you can't really blame him as it can happen to anyone. The groin injury he had...well...it was a very common injury at the start of the season. It's true that he would be much better if he was in the line-up more often. I never made one mention of Koivu's ability to score goals. He's not a bad goal scorer, but he is also not a good enough playmaker either. Is he a #1 centre? On Montreal yes? On alot of other teams. No. Infact he is in many ways similar to Ryder, although one is a goal scorer and the other a playmaker. Koivu is suppose to make other people around him better. Ryder isn't. Ryder has scored just as many goals with Ribeiro at his side than he has with Koivu. My position is that he'd score many more with say a Joe Thornton or Jason Spezza. But then again so would Jan Bulis, Garth Murray or me for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koivu-11 Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 (edited) I may be a moron, but atleast I can speak proper english. Sapose? What the hell is that? Try some grammar and punctuation, it'll make your posts a little easier to read and understand back to my grammar problem that i have, ok fine i said it my grammar isnt the best thing my teacher says it him self i have that problem. So sorry for who ever can't understand what i say, if thats the case just post or pm me saying that there was a problem. Edited July 7, 2006 by koivu-11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 My position is that he'd score many more with say a Joe Thornton or Jason Spezza. But then again so would Jan Bulis, Garth Murray or me for that matter. Exactly what I was saying in that long post about Ryder before. He shouldn't need top linemates to be able to produce. Marc Savard is deemed overrated and shit because he made most of his career points off of superstar linemates. If Ryder started scoring goals next to Joe Thronton than people would make the same argument that he isn't really a natural 50 goal scorer, which is true. Just like Jonathan Cheechoo wouldn't normally be a 50 goal scorer. Cheechoo's offensive game isn't much better than Ryder's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koivu-11 Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 Exactly what I was saying in that long post about Ryder before. He shouldn't need top linemates to be able to produce. Marc Savard is deemed overrated and shit because he made most of his career points off of superstar linemates. If Ryder started scoring goals next to Joe Thronton than people would make the same argument that he isn't really a natural 50 goal scorer, which is true. Just like Jonathan Cheechoo wouldn't normally be a 50 goal scorer. Cheechoo's offensive game isn't much better than Ryder's. the cheechoo thing is true but also, cheechoo is a lot faster and better in some aspects rather then ryder is, also i think i seen cheechoo use his body a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komisarek the Cruncher Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 This hole argument is a joke. How can anyone knock down our only 30 goal scorer when scoring is our #1 problem. Sometimes I just don't get people? You think that Kovalchuk works hard, plays well defense and plays physical, the answer is NO. But everybody would take him right away. Ryder's job is to score goals and is doing a fine job at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zumpano21 Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 This hole argument is a joke. How can anyone knock down our only 30 goal scorer when scoring is our #1 problem. Sometimes I just don't get people? You think that Kovalchuk works hard, plays well defense and plays physical, the answer is NO. But everybody would take him right away. Ryder's job is to score goals and is doing a fine job at it. Perfectly said. Now let's sign Morozov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habsrock_6 Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 My lines for 06/07 season: Shanny - Ribs - Kovalev Higgins - Koivu - Ryder Kost/Zed - Pleks - Perez Murray - Bonk - Begin Markov - Komi Souray - Dandy Boullion - Rivet Huet Abby PP#1 Shanny - Koivu - Kovalev Markov - Souray PP#2 Ryder - Pleks - Higgins Perez/Kost - Bouillon habs will sign shanny! i know it! i can feel it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Higgins Koivu (if he's healthy) Ryder Perezhogin Plekanec Kovalev Ribeiro Bonk Kostitsyn Murray Begin Zednik Markov Rivet Souray Komisarek Bouillon Dandenault Huet Aebsicher Danis Downey and Streit can alternate dressing as extra forward and 7th defensman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 This hole argument is a joke. How can anyone knock down our only 30 goal scorer when scoring is our #1 problem. Sometimes I just don't get people? You think that Kovalchuk works hard, plays well defense and plays physical, the answer is NO. But everybody would take him right away. Ryder's job is to score goals and is doing a fine job at it. Don't even try comparing Ryder with Kovalchuk. There is not one aspect of the game that Ryder is better than him at. A 50 goal scorer with a 30 goal scorer, Kovalchuk also has New NHL speed, superstar talent and an underrated checking game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 (edited) Don't even try comparing Ryder with Kovalchuk. There is not one aspect of the game that Ryder is better than him at. A 50 goal scorer with a 30 goal scorer, Kovalchuk also has New NHL speed, superstar talent and an underrated checking game. Underrated checking game? The guy never comes back farther than his own blueline. Kovalchuk is a world class talent, much better than Ryder no doubt about it. But don't say that a guy who is -43 (career) is underrrated defensively, that shit doesn't wash. Edited July 8, 2006 by kaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 A question? After a bit of searching I am still finding conflicting reports. Is Markov a UFA or a RFA after next season? Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Underrated checking game? The guy never comes back farther than his own blueline. Kovalchuk is a world class talent, much better than Ryder no doubt about it. But don't say that a guy who is -43 (career) is underrrated defensively, that shit doesn't wash. Not defensively. I meant he hits more than he gets recognition for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komisarek the Cruncher Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Don't even try comparing Ryder with Kovalchuk. There is not one aspect of the game that Ryder is better than him at. A 50 goal scorer with a 30 goal scorer, Kovalchuk also has New NHL speed, superstar talent and an underrated checking game. Who's trying to compare them? Read first, then think, then post a reply. The comment was said that both guys jobs is to score and that's all they bring. Kovalchuk checking? Ya right, like Bulis was a big checking player also Kovalchuk scores more and is paid more for it, but that's all they bring to the game, no defense, no checking. There are not that many good two way players that are high scorers out there. Most players bring some skills and the mix of them all makes a team. Stop bashing a scorer like Ryder, we need him, PERIOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 I do not understand the reason to leave Ryder out of the picture? What has he done wrong, he scores and he does make an occasional defensive play, I do not give away 30 goals. I'm not too pleased about arbitration. I'm starting to wonder if he wants out. He's always talking cash and playing hard ball it seems. I hope not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Who's trying to compare them? Read first, then think, then post a reply. The comment was said that both guys jobs is to score and that's all they bring. Kovalchuk checking? Ya right, like Bulis was a big checking player also Kovalchuk scores more and is paid more for it, but that's all they bring to the game, no defense, no checking. There are not that many good two way players that are high scorers out there. Most players bring some skills and the mix of them all makes a team. Stop bashing a scorer like Ryder, we need him, PERIOD. Come on, guys. I don't know who's misreading who's posts. That last sentence shows that you misunderstood the entire meaning of several of my last posts. I said several times that we need Ryder and should keep him and that he deserves his raise. Why bother arguing when you don't know what we're arguing about? (Just like what it says in KoZed's post. You guys hear one bad word about Ryder and say the entire argument's garbage. I never said he wasn't a good player.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koivu-11 Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 Underrated checking game? The guy never comes back farther than his own blueline. Kovalchuk is a world class talent, much better than Ryder no doubt about it. But don't say that a guy who is -43 (career) is underrrated defensively, that shit doesn't wash. Hes been playing with the thrashers man give him a break lol, The team was dissucusting when he was there for his first couple of years, im sure heatley isnt so high before he went to ottawa. A question? After a bit of searching I am still finding conflicting reports. Is Markov a UFA or a RFA after next season? Anyone? From what i know hes a UFA wich scares the living hell out of me! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 I'm not too pleased about arbitration. I'm starting to wonder if he wants out. He's always talking cash and playing hard ball it seems. I hope not If you were your team's leading goalscorer, wouldn't you push for a raise??? I certainly would! Money talks now more than ever in the post-lockout era; the owners played serious hardball with the players (IE the salary clawback), so why would the players not do the same when it's time to negotiate??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Anyways, now that the Shanahan thing's over and I don't expect any other UFAs headed into Montreal, here's my lineup..3 scoring lines are the way to succeed. Higgins - Koivu - Zednik Perezhogin - Plekanec - Kovalev Kostityn - Ribiero - Ryder Murray - Bonk - Begin Souray - Rivet Markov - Komisarek Bouillion - Dandenault Huet Aebischer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Oh btw, we know there's one player dying to play for the Habs (or any other NHL team for that matter) Mathias Brunet reports the Canadiens have no interest in bringing back former habs Donald Brashear, who's presently an unrestricted free agent and had contacted Gainey to inform the Habs GM know he was interested in playing for Montreal. According to Spector, Donald Brashear contacted Gainey...LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch_nl Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 My hopes for bringing in a UFA has faded since all the ones that looked interesting has signed elsewhere. But I do hope that one change is made before the season starts. But here's my toughts: - Saku Koivu is still the captain and the first line center of the Habs. - The management gave Mike Ribeiro a huge raise. That means two things. They are giving him a chance with this team and if he was hard to trade earlier, he's even harder to deal now. Still he's one of the most important offensive players on this team and had some chemistry with... - Alex Kovalev. The most skilled player on the team. But will likley see second line duty as I think it's time to promote our most productive player... - Michael Ryder. A goalscorer that with the right center could hit the 50 goals in one season if things click. - Christopher Higgins. Where to play him? Center at the third line? First och second line winger? I don't know, but it's nice to have such a young player that so versitaille. - Plekanec is my choice as a third line center. - Alexander Perezhogin should get a shot at a offensice line and with Plekanec you have an interesting combo. The third payer in this formation could be the key. It would be tempting to try Murray here but I think that maybe it would be a good thing to have... - Steve Begin here. A player that leads by example. I also think it would be good to separate Steve Begin from... - Garth Murray. A true grinder that could be the new Begin. Still young with some offensive upside. - Radek Bonk. The highest paid fourth line center in the NHL. But hif he will be capable of shutting down the other teams stars and play on the PK it will be worth it. - Andrei Kostitsyn. Give him time on the fourth line and use his speed to counter attack when the fourth line is on the ice. On defence the Habs have an interesting situation. All of our key and core players are having a contract year. Souray, Markov and Rivet will all be free agents after this season. - Markov is the best defenceman in my eyes. and with the improvment of... - Craig Rivet the Habs have a solid first pair. - Souray is a factor on the powerplay and his shot is valuable. Continue to play him with... - Komisarek and the Habs have a bonecrushing pair as their second. - Boullion was given a raise and has impressed. - Dandenault should have thats last spot. And finaly. Cristoball Huet is the number one. Period. Danis is my choice as a backup. This would give: (Zednik) - Koivu - Ryder Higgins - Ribeiro - Kovalev Perezhogin - Plekanec - Begin Murray - Bonk - Kostitsyn Markov - Rivet Souray - Komisarek Dandenault - Boullion Huet Danis As you can see there's two players that has been left out. Zednik and Aebischer. Zednik is a UFA after this season and packed with Aebi it could get us a first line winger in return. Simon Gagne would be the dream, Jere Lehtinen the semi-dream, Eric Daze a risk, Nicolai Zherdev a fair deal (throw in a pick here) and Boyd Devereaux a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 ?? Boyd Deveraux is definitely not a first line winger...and he's a UFA. Daze is semi-retired due to back injuries and also a UFA. So you can't pack Zednik and Aebischer for them!!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch_nl Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 You're right I just took a few names as a was in a hurry. (I was at work and had to end my post). But here's some other interesting left wingers based on what teams could use a number one goaltender and a second line winger. Slava Kozlov, Atlanta. The have Kari Lehtonen but he's still unproven. A cheap sollution like Aebischer would be great for them. Kovalchuck is of course their first choice at legt wing. Fair trade? Others: Martin Gelinas, Alexander Frolov and Oleg Saprykin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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