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Pierre the Great

"Reasonable Accommodations" Discussion

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And by the way Palestinians are semitic as well. So in reality if you are hating on Palestinians you yourself are anti semitic.

etymology can be incredibly unelucidating. Anti-Semitic has come to mean anti-jewish. Attempting to apply "semitic" in this context to all middle-easterners is simply contrarian.

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How ignorant would we all be about the world around us if we didn't learn about the beliefs of various religions? I mean, over 85% of the world belongs to some sort of religious group. Everyone should study the world's major religions. Catholicism, other Christian groups, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, even Agnosticism and Atheism (Not an exhaustive list, just the biggies off the top of my head). Religion is a huge part of the anthropology of any group of people. Learning about the beliefs of others, no matter how "dumb" they sound to you can only serve to help. Personally, I think a "World Religion" course should be standard in any school. Nothing preachy about it, not trying to recruit kids, not trying to tell anybody what to believe, not trying to say one religion is better than another. Simple sociology and anthropology. Education breeds understanding, understanding breeds tolerance, tolerance breeds better relationships with our fellow man.

There is a difference between learning about religion and being indoctrinated into a religion. I doubt (hope) that JoeLassiter would not mind a class which analyzed a religion or set or religions. I took a few of such courses myself in college. I think the problem that he has is when the class teaches the religious precepts as divine.

I don't have a problem with a Catholic school teaching Catholicism as the true religion, certainly my Jewish school taught Judaism as the path to God. We did not, however, allow Judaism to intrude into the non-religious courses. I have no idea to what degree any given school handles the religion/secular dichotomy, but I generally liked the strict division my school employed.

I don't know if I'd group agnosticism and atheism into the world religions. They are certainly not organized religions per se.

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liberal bastion?

lets see who ratified the UN Charter first

Republic of China- lol right wing autocratic conservative government. yup they were lefties all right

soviet union- stalin, he was no trotsky

UK- Churchill mr. lets use machine guns on protesters yup he's a liberal

France- De Gaulle lol no liberal there

US- Truman (he was no FDR, heck he signed up for the KKK as a kid, typical missourian)

I fail to understand your reasoning as the UN a "liberal bastion" somebody has been drinking too much rush limbaugh kool aid. ;)

this is an incredibly spurious argument even discouning your questionable use of history. As a coalition of nations, the UN will naturally reflect the beliefs and policy choices of its members, especially of those on the security counsel. If the greater portion of the security counsel is liberal, the institution will pursue liberal policies, if those members are conservative, the institution will pursue conservative policies.

Neither American liberalism nor conservatism embrace any foreign policy vision that one might call isolationist, but the concept of binding (or semi-binding) multilateral international compacts is certainly more palatable to American liberals rather than conservatives. Insofar that the United Nations attempts to negotiate and enforce these types of agreements, it is a fundamentally liberal institution according to the American rubric.

Certainly some, but by no means all, of the anti-Israeli sentiment in the UN can be attributed to antisemitism. This, of course, is not an criticism of the institution of the UN, but rather of those members who inject antisemitism into their foreign policy views.

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I really don't care if we are bigots. Big deal. I guess we are suppose to be multicultural and have 2 official languages. We have a Queen.

Bunch a bull. If immigrants want to stay in Canada I agree they should contribute social input to our society but also it would be nice to have them learn our ways when it does not interfere with their beliefs. I don't mind being tolerant but all this "ethnic and privileged" nonsense is an absolute extreme as is asking them to assimilate. I hate that. If it's PC; it's correct??? If you oppose you are racist??? :blink:

Canada multicultural? Bah! Why, because some former PM says so? Bullocks!

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hmm the current one just said about it in the throne speech.

what that little town in Quebec did was racist. What the Hasidics complained about in Montreal was stupid, and if this is about religion then I'm sorry you can't purge religion from society.

And to say Quebec is secular is funny because which province is constantly the most 'religious'? Quebec (even if they have the lowest attendance). I turned on Radio-Canada on Sunday and what did I see? A catholic mass, on public tv.

Joe wants to turn this into "Quebec" values or "Quebec Identity". There is no true Quebec Indentity just as you can't define, Europe, Canada, Russia, The US or China.

What gives people like joe the right to say this is Quebecios and this isn't?

Example: I could be living in Quebec, I don't speak french, but I would consider myself a Quebecer? Why? Because I'd be proud of where I'd live. Now I bet I'll get a response, "Oh you're not a Quebecer!" my response is define Quebecer. You can't. You can't define someone by language, religion, race or creed. You can't group people like that, it doesn't work.

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Bunch a bull. If immigrants want to stay in Canada I agree they should contribute social input to our society but also it would be nice to have them learn our ways when it does not interfere with their beliefs. I don't mind being tolerant but all this "ethnic and privileged" nonsense is an absolute extreme as is asking them to assimilate. I hate that. If it's PC; it's correct??? If you oppose you are racist??? :blink:

Just wondering, what are your thoughts about Mexicans in the US? Do you think that the US should adapt to them and offer things such as schooling in Spanish, or should they be forced to learn English?

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US went xenophobe after the first world war. Before that my family spoke only german, went to german schools, german church and so on. Then the wars came and the government forced them to change.

Then of course there's the no nothing period where they wanted laws to ban catholics.

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yeah, there's a difference between disliking and not accepting. but for my part, i dislike it and i don't accept it, be it religion from other cultures or even my culture. I hate catholicism as much as islam or budhism...

And here in Québec now, saying openly and publicly that you dislike and not accept religion is now viewed as a form of racism.

hmm the current one just said about it in the throne speech.

what that little town in Quebec did was racist. What the Hasidics complained about in Montreal was stupid, and if this is about religion then I'm sorry you can't purge religion from society.

And to say Quebec is secular is funny because which province is constantly the most 'religious'? Quebec (even if they have the lowest attendance). I turned on Radio-Canada on Sunday and what did I see? A catholic mass, on public tv.

Joe wants to turn this into "Quebec" values or "Quebec Identity". There is no true Quebec Indentity just as you can't define, Europe, Canada, Russia, The US or China.

What gives people like joe the right to say this is Quebecios and this isn't?

Example: I could be living in Quebec, I don't speak french, but I would consider myself a Quebecer? Why? Because I'd be proud of where I'd live. Now I bet I'll get a response, "Oh you're not a Quebecer!" my response is define Quebecer. You can't. You can't define someone by language, religion, race or creed. You can't group people like that, it doesn't work.

What ?? I just looked at all my posts in this thread and WHERE the hell am I saying that ???? It might be this little sentence up there, dunno? Seriously, i didn't even mention the words "values" and "identity", don't speak for me.

I never wanted turn this into anything, just saying a reality we have here in Québec RIGHT NOW, it's the most important debate. I'd have a really hard time to define Quebecer myself, there are over 100 countries represented in the only Montreal city. We might have one of the most multicultural population in the whole N-A...

I just described a reality in my province as i thought you would do so in BC and other posters in their own province...

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What gives people like joe the right to say this is Quebecios and this isn't?

Oh come off it, speaking as a neutral observer maudit Anglais from Westmount, anyone can see there is a clear cut pur-laine quebecois type that has been around since nouvelle france. Hell, most of the chicks even look the same since they are all descended from a couple of boatloads of filles du roi and spent centuries isolated in small agricultural communities (Montreal and Quebec city both being mostly populated by English at the beginning of the 20th century).

You could come to Quebec and be a Quebecer (As my family has been for a century), but you will never be a Quebecois (nor will I)

Edited by Dirty Harry

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Just wondering, what are your thoughts about Mexicans in the US? Do you think that the US should adapt to them and offer things such as schooling in Spanish, or should they be forced to learn English?
Neither I would say. Cultures should adapt, eventually. The thing that irritates me about immigrants is generally a pet peeve. They remind me of interest groups or groups fighting for money. Now, the immigrants are not doing this but when if a hint of it gets on the news about them wanting rights or equality, in our minds it's almost like "interest groups or groups fighting for money". It's sort of like we think, "what do you want now? Are you done already"?

The whole paradox of this reminds me of the ol' saying, "walk a mile in my moccasins". If the so called bigots were the immigrants they would be the headline of the week; thus annoying!

Immigrants and other cultures are hated because it's common. It's easy. It's the movie of the week. And in 20 years someone somewhere will hate someone else for some really dumb reason. There's no more bigots in Canada than anywhere else and we are no better either.

Edited by Athlétique.Canadien

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Certainly some, but by no means all, of the anti-Israeli sentiment in the UN can be attributed to antisemitism.

Most of the anti-Israeli sentiment in the UN can be attributed to anti-Zionism.

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speaking as a neutral observer maudit Anglais from Westmount . . . You could come to Quebec and be a Quebecer (As my family has been for a century), but you will never be a Quebecois (nor will I)

Seriously Westmount is by choice a world unto itself, I mean they voted out of the Ville de Montreal, and put up their Stop signs in English, Westmount likes being isolated.

I was born anglo Montrealer but consider myself a Québécois, and immigrants to Québec are considered Québécois, some examples author Dany Laferrière is of Haitian origin, actor Aimee Lee is Chinese origin, playwright Wadji Mouawad (Lebanese origin), singer Nicolas Ciccone (Italian origin), just a few I scooped off Wikipedia. Montreal is incredibly multicultural and as for identity, it's not where you were born; it's where you're coming from, 'sti.

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Seriously Westmount is by choice a world unto itself, I mean they voted out of the Ville de Montreal, and put up their Stop signs in English, Westmount likes being isolated.

I was born anglo Montrealer but consider myself a Québécois, and immigrants to Québec are considered Québécois, some examples author Dany Laferrière is of Haitian origin, actor Aimee Lee is Chinese origin, playwright Wadji Mouawad (Lebanese origin), singer Nicolas Ciccone (Italian origin), just a few I scooped off Wikipedia. Montreal is incredibly multicultural and as for identity, it's not where you were born; it's where you're coming from, 'sti.

:o :bow: What a quote !

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Most of the anti-Israeli sentiment in the UN can be attributed to anti-Zionism.

both your and my statements are true. It's just a question of degree.

Edited by simonus

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As I wrote maybe a year ago when more politics threads appeared *glances at PTG*, the thing about these sort of discussions is that they can sometimes reveal more than we want to know.

This is a forum where fans of the Habs can meet, that is our common ground. We could sit in the stands at a Habs game and have a great time because we would all be focused on the same thing and the differences would be things like Person A would prefer Kovalev on the first line and Person B thinks Huet should be bundled for a power forward and so on. In the grand scheme of things, pretty small differences (but don't try telling that to the Journal de Montréal hehehe).

Anyway my point is that religion and politics discussions reveal how different we all are when we look at things other than the Habs. Some might consider that divisive but listening to different opinions is healthy IMO. As a mod I supported allowing these threads when they were discussed last year, I just want to say here I am glad that posters have been mature and respectful and I hope that continues.

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How ignorant would we all be about the world around us if we didn't learn about the beliefs of various religions? I mean, over 85% of the world belongs to some sort of religious group. Everyone should study the world's major religions. Catholicism, other Christian groups, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, even Agnosticism and Atheism (Not an exhaustive list, just the biggies off the top of my head). Religion is a huge part of the anthropology of any group of people. Learning about the beliefs of others, no matter how "dumb" they sound to you can only serve to help. Personally, I think a "World Religion" course should be standard in any school. Nothing preachy about it, not trying to recruit kids, not trying to tell anybody what to believe, not trying to say one religion is better than another. Simple sociology and anthropology. Education breeds understanding, understanding breeds tolerance, tolerance breeds better relationships with our fellow man.

Excellent! Great Post FANPUCK33!

And I enjoyed reading this entire thread.

Discussion about topics like this will allow us all to be better citizens of our country and members our global village.

I agree that fear of the unknown has a lot to do with what breeds the sad reality of todays prejudicial society.

This topic/discussion can have a changing effect on our beliefs and hopefully that change is for the better good of all humanity.

Change for the better can start with each of us, today. Together we can make up a more accepting and understanding forum for, tomorrow. And our kids will hopefully enjoy the hard work and accommodating example we set for our future.

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I'm not religious, but I love religions.

Why? Because of the mystic the history and the culture. If you're not religious, or are ultra religious of a different faith, I challenge you to do what I did, and go to your local mosque, hindu temple, synagogue Bahá'í House of Worship, Buddhist temple, or Gurdwara.

You'll learn a bit about your community, understand where they are coming from, and you will learn a little bit about your own self. Don't worry on intruding they'd be glad to show you around, they don't bite. They're good people. Plus its a known fact the more you surround yourself with something you are not familiar with (race and religious wise) the less likely you are to discriminate or become that way.

The main breaking point in my family is because half of them have never been exposed to anything outside of there own little world. They live in all tense in purposes in their on Herouxville. Over the past 35 years they've slowly become more isolated, and it breaks them as they drift further and further into oblivion. It's become a disease a sickness that's never going to go away. All of this is because they are afraid, they are afraid of what is unknown, of something different. They are stuck in another era, they get uncomfortable at chinese restaurants for crying out loud. On a personal note, I've always rebelled against what they do, if they're doing something you do the complete and total opposite, but then that sort of makes my life a life based on political and cultural beliefs. Sometimes I wonder if I'm willingly doing something just for the sake of being different. Then I came to Vancouver, BC, Canada and realized that what I strived for was normal.

I spent Thanksgiving with my roommates family. His mom's side is all dutch (all born Holland), his father's is British (Grandma and Grandpa were born in England). His Uncle is from Venice(wanted on a Summer trip to Canada in the 50's, never went back) , and his older sister married into a immigrant Columbian family. English, Dutch, Italian, Spanish all spoken at the table during the evening. One big happy family. And this was Vancouver Island not Vancouver or Toronto. Little Nanaimo.

Gave me hope, I knew I was in the right place.

My favourite religious class I've ever taken was a world religion class (ironically at the catholic high school, lol a class like that would have never happened at the lutheran school, considering all the hate that was in that school). It opened me up to Confucianism, Hinduism and much more. I had learned more about myself in a spiritual sense because of that class, then I ever had before.

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would hating scousers be classed as being racist? if so im racist and proud.

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would hating scousers be classed as being racist? if so im racist and proud.

Oh, now i understant your list in "top 10 most hated athletes" thread. :lol:

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Oh, now i understant your list in "top 10 most hated athletes" thread. :lol:

:lol: its born into you being a mancunian man utd fan.

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No it doesn't. As I said in my earlier post, opposing the imposition of the religious opinions of any minority on the majority is simply common sense. Why should Canada be the most accomodating country on Earth? Why should immigrants be granted special privledges? Trying going to an Arabian Gulf country and get any rights and see how far you get.

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No it doesn't. As I said in my earlier post, opposing the imposition of the religious opinions of any minority on the majority is simply common sense. Why should Canada be the most accomodating country on Earth? Why should immigrants be granted special privledges? Trying going to an Arabian Gulf country and get any rights and see how far you get.

i agree but their is a counter arguement that two wrongs dont make a right and canada not being a backwards fundamentalist state should show other countries like those in the middle east the way forward in multiculturalism- you agree pierre? :wacko:

Edited by Killer Carlson

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I think 15 more years and religion is out of Québec. When the 50's will de dead...

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I think 15 more years and religion is out of Québec. When the 50's will de dead...

religion is fine as long as it aint shoved in anyones face who isnt interested.

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