KoZed Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I know some will think this confirms their thoughts about the Habs' drafting: http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hockey/20...un-magicien.php End of the article. Translation A Habs scout (I wont name because I am nice) is watching the young Perron during a junior match 3 years ago in Lewiston. In the stands, between two bites, the scout says out loud the following remark, near a member of the Perron family: "David Perron will never play in the NHL". No too bad for a prediction, isnt it? Perron, who's in his 3rd NHL season withthe St. Louis Blues, already has 7 goals and 4 assists on the record this season. When you hear stories like this, you understand why the Habs are so low. First off, I hope they fired that idiot scout. That story is so revealing of our drafting woes. Perron is right behind Kane and Gagner in NHL games played and pts from all 2007 draftees. No wonder we miss out on all the local talent we should know more about than any other team. Our junior scouting and judgment is weak. We're so obsessed with physical qualities we're missing out on guys who are actually talented hockey top liners. So we end up with Chipchuras and Kostitsyns and Paciorettys who cant hold a top spot. Gretzky has average speed and size. Stop wasting 1st rounders on big and/or fast player with lesser hockey sense! You can pick those in 4th round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I know some will think this confirms their thoughts about the Habs' drafting: http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hockey/20...un-magicien.php End of the article. Translation A Habs scout (I wont name because I am nice) is watching the young Perron during a junior match 3 years ago in Lewiston. In the stands, between two bites, the scout says out loud the following remark, near a member of the Perron family: "David Perron will never play in the NHL". No too bad for a prediction, isnt it? Perron, who's in his 3rd NHL season withthe St. Louis Blues, already has 7 goals and 4 assists on the record this season. When you hear stories like this, you understand why the Habs are so low. First off, I hope they fired that idiot scout. That story is so revealing of our drafting woes. Perron is right behind Kane and Gagner in NHL games played and pts from all 2007 draftees. No wonder we miss out on all the local talent we should know more about than any other team. Our junior scouting and judgment is weak. We're so obsessed with physical qualities we're missing out on guys who are actually talented hockey top liners. So we end up with Chipchuras and Kostitsyns and Paciorettys who cant hold a top spot. Gretzky has average speed and size. Stop wasting 1st rounders on big and/or fast player with lesser hockey sense! You can pick those in 4th round. No scout EVER gets it right 100% of the time. But it's nice you have thrown Kostitsyn and Pacioretty under the bus so quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 So I guess we're now giving up on Max Pacioretty? After all, that's who we drafted before David Perron. Fire the scout, whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) Oh, I totally agree. I beleive Kozed means that if they are going to pick somebody big, then pick somebody big. The people who say Patches is "big" are on glue. He's 6' 2" 190 lbs. Sorry to break it to you but thats not big, and even if he does put on alot of weight he still wont be "big" in the NHL. Personally I have completely given on Patches ability to grow 2"+ and gain 30 lbs+. Patches will never be big. No wonder we miss out on all the local talent we should know more about than any other team. Our junior scouting and judgment is weak. We're so obsessed with physical qualities we're missing out on guys who are actually talented hockey top liners. So we end up with Chipchuras and Kostitsyns and Paciorettys who cant hold a top spot. Gretzky has average speed and size. Stop wasting 1st rounders on big and/or fast player with lesser hockey sense! You can pick those in 4th round. There is absolutely no excuse for it. There isnt. Think aboot all the ex Habs alumni who are highly involved in the QMJL. How can the Habs be so inept at picking French players from a league thats full of ex Habs alumni? Patrice Bergeron was passed over by the Habs 2 or 3 times. Sure he might have had a bad year in his last Junior year, but 1 of the ex Habs alumni must have known why, so why didnt the Habs know this and been on the ball? The entire QMJL is basically a giant Habs training camp yet they seem to drop the ball and pass over on so many good French players. If any team should have insider trading info it should be the Habs, but look around almost all other NHL teams have picked better French players, and after the Habs passed on them. Just out of curiosity I can only wonder if this scout was the same ass clown that said Briere was too small to be in the NHL back when the Habs could have got him off waivers for nothing. Edited November 15, 2009 by Sir_Boagalott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 i dont know why we pass on so many french players in the draft..i always think that was werid...but the thing that always got me is why have we had such a hard time to get french superstars to sign in montreal..i just dont get why the guys dont what to play in montreal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 i dont know why we pass on so many french players in the draft..i always think that was werid...but the thing that always got me is why have we had such a hard time to get french superstars to sign in montreal..i just dont get why the guys dont what to play in montreal... Taxes, intrusive media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Taxes, intrusive media. Yes, well, a francophone star who does not want to play in Montreal is simply a soulless human turd in my humble opinion. Such players have the rarest of opportunities to live out one of the great myths in hockey: the French Canadian star playing for the Montreal Canadiens. While I'm very relieved Daniel Briere did not sign for us, I never respected him for his heartless decision to take a few extra mil and sign elsewhere. If Lecavalier also does not want to play in Montreal - something never proven, as far as I know - then he is another mercenary, soulless chump in my books. These players are oblivious to the magical aspects of what they do for a living. And that is a damned shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Yes, well, a francophone star who does not want to play in Montreal is simply a soulless human turd in my humble opinion. Such players have the rarest of opportunities to live out one of the great myths in hockey: the French Canadian star playing for the Montreal Canadiens. While I'm very relieved Daniel Briere did not sign for us, I never respected him for his heartless decision to take a few extra mil and sign elsewhere. If Lecavalier also does not want to play in Montreal - something never proven, as far as I know - then he is another mercenary, soulless chump in my books. These players are oblivious to the magical aspects of what they do for a living. And that is a damned shame. I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. Just because a player doesn't want to play in a city where paparazzi-like reporters come to your house to actually see if your injured (Theodore) or come to your hospital room and flash a camera in your eyes after you've had a serious eye injury...can you really blame them? Would you want to be a Habs player right now with all the crap they are taking? I know I'd be ashamed. Lecavalier never "said" that he didn't want to play in Montreal, but his actions speak louder than words. He's played his entire career in Tampa, and wanted to finish it there. Any other player would be applauded for wanting to finish with the team that drafted him, for showing some loyalty, but not Vinny, apparently that makes him a loser! As far as the whole tax thing is concerned, The difference in tax levels between Ontario and Québec is no longer that great. At least not enough to make a big difference. If you compare our tax levels with states like Florida and Texas, well then we are at a huge disadvantage as those two states don't have any income tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I do have a problem with the Habs' draft strategy, and it's not neccesarily because they don't draft QMJHLers. I find they don't draft players from strong leagues in general... if they had drafted players playing in the SEL instead, I'd be generally okay with that strategy, but they seem to draft the raw talent who stands out in the high school leagues, tier 2 junior, or Belarus and hope for the best. They've drafted 2 WHLers in the first round since 2001 (the year the scouting staff was turned over), 2 from the NCAA, 2 from the Russian 2nd division, 2 from Minnesotan high school leagues, and 2 from the USHL. It's a low percentage strategy to take only 40% of your first rounders who are playing at what is considered to be the highest level of competition available to them at the time. And Higgins was 19 when we drafted him out of the NCAA, a year older than most draftees. It's still unbelievable to me that we've drafted 3 players out of Belarus in that time frame but only 2 Swedes. The thing that boggles my mind about this strategy of drafting our top picks out of leagues with weak competition is that we've had a decent record picking high comeptition players in Rounds 2 and 3. Since 2001, our players drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds are: Duncan Milroy (WHL), Tomas Plekanec (Czech), Tomas Linhart (Czech-2), Cory Urquhart (QMJHL), Max Lapierre (QMJHL), Ryan O'Byrne (BCHL), Alexei Yemelin (Rus-2), Guillaume Latendresse (QMJHL), Ben Maxwell (WHL), Mathieu Carle (QMJHL), Ryan White (WHL), P.K. Subban (OHL), Olivier Fortier (QMJHL), Yannick Weber (OHL), Danny Kristo (US U-18), Steve Quailer (USHL), Joonas Nattinen (SM-Liiga), Mac Bennett (Conn. HS). We had a .500 batting average for NHLers from 2001-05 for those two rounds, which is pretty good, and Milroy played well enough to get a look at the NHL level at one point. They were 1 for 3 drafting from players in lower leagues (O'Byrne made it, Linhart and Yemelin have not) while they were 3 for 5 drafting from higher leagues with Milroy being a near miss. From then on, you'll notice that our 2006 and 2007 picks were all major junior players, and all are decent prospects and 4 of the 6 have already been called up once in their young careers. In 2008 and 2009, we drafted only 1 player from a high league (Nattinen) although Kristo was in a good program at least. I'm not against picking players from the USHL or Tier 2 junior or a European junior league, but when it's so prominent in our draft strategy you've just got to realize that something is out of whack. They're trying too hard to find a diamond in the rough if they're going there. I don't mind leaving no stone unturned, but usually there's a reason why these guys aren't in the top development leagues at 18. You have to have a lot of confidence in your own developmental program if you're picking them from obscurity like has been the strategy so far, and there's been no reason in recent years to have that kind of faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Yea, the first rounders have been a bit dissappointing. Fisher will play, but he isn't a top end guy, more a solid bottom pair guy. You'll like Kristo, that guy can fly. I did like last years draft. I totally agree about singing major junior players in the first round, look at the Avs, they got 2 really good players at #3 and #30. O'Reilly and Dueshene are very good for them. The habs can trade a couple guys for #1 picks, young players, etc. They definatley need to improve in drafting top end guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Yes, well, a francophone star who does not want to play in Montreal is simply a soulless human turd in my humble opinion. There are people who will grow up disliking a team, simply because it is local. Some people don't like having a team shoved down their throat by all local media. It's the reason I have never liked and never will like Ohio State, despite growing up in and living in the Columbus area. I hate the ridiculous amount of over coverage the team gets on local TV and newspapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Try living in Denver with "Bronco mania". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. Just because a player doesn't want to play in a city where paparazzi-like reporters come to your house to actually see if your injured (Theodore) or come to your hospital room and flash a camera in your eyes after you've had a serious eye injury...can you really blame them? Would you want to be a Habs player right now with all the crap they are taking? I know I'd be ashamed. Lecavalier never "said" that he didn't want to play in Montreal, but his actions speak louder than words. He's played his entire career in Tampa, and wanted to finish it there. Any other player would be applauded for wanting to finish with the team that drafted him, for showing some loyalty, but not Vinny, apparently that makes him a loser! You'll notice I didn't slag Vinny, and I have no objection to a player deciding he's happy where he is and playing out his career there. But the case of UFAs who have already decided to leave their teams and therefore by definition cannot be lauded for 'loyalty,' or a player who is willing to accept a trade to markets other than Montreal - these I've got no patience for. And not for a second would I be ashamed to be a Habs player under the Gainey regime; not for a second would I be reluctant to live in Montreal (my home town, by the way) as a Montreal Canadien. How come Lafleur and Kovalev and Koivu and Roy and innumerable other players both francophone and non-francophone can play here with all the craziness it entails and love it, but not putzes like Danny Briere? Because only one name on that list has no soul IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Yes, well, a francophone star who does not want to play in Montreal is simply a soulless human turd in my humble opinion. Such players have the rarest of opportunities to live out one of the great myths in hockey: the French Canadian star playing for the Montreal Canadiens. While I'm very relieved Daniel Briere did not sign for us, I never respected him for his heartless decision to take a few extra mil and sign elsewhere. If Lecavalier also does not want to play in Montreal - something never proven, as far as I know - then he is another mercenary, soulless chump in my books. These players are oblivious to the magical aspects of what they do for a living. And that is a damned shame. Ask Alex Tanguay, Patrice Brisebois, Mike Ribeiro and Georges Laraque of the magic of living the greatest myth in hockey. A Quebec born player would have to be BATSHIT CRAZY to come to Montreal unless the team is sure to be a contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Ask Alex Tanguay, Patrice Brisebois, Mike Ribeiro and Georges Laraque of the magic of living the greatest myth in hockey. A Quebec born player would have to be BATSHIT CRAZY to come to Montreal unless the team is sure to be a contender. The shine really comes off the apple pretty quick, doesn't it? Random Fan: "Hey, rough game last night eh?" Francophone Superstar: "I scored 2 goals..." Random Fan: "Yeah, too bad you didn't get the hat trick. Maybe crash the net a bit more, eh?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Wow, this thread went in all directions... I should have underlined my point: In 2007, our scout in the QMJHL, thought that Perron would never play in the NHL. Not only did Perron played in the NHL right off the draft, but he's right being Kane and Gagner in pts from all the picks of that draft. This isnt a scout misjudging a 6th round prospect. This is our guy watching over our backyard being completely oblivious to the best prospect there. That's like going hunting and not shooting a moose because you think it's a squirrel. Scratch that. That's like going hunting and not shooting a moose because you think it's a rock and you brought a broom instead of a riffle. Gross, unacceptable incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Wow, this thread went in all directions... I should have underlined my point: In 2007, our scout in the QMJHL, thought that Perron would never play in the NHL. Not only did Perron played in the NHL right off the draft, but he's right being Kane and Gagner in pts from all the picks of that draft. This isnt a scout misjudging a 6th round prospect. This is our guy watching over our backyard being completely oblivious to the best prospect there. That's like going hunting and not shooting a moose because you think it's a squirrel. Scratch that. That's like going hunting and not shooting a moose because you think it's a rock and you brought a broom instead of a riffle. Gross, unacceptable incompetence. Let me just point out that what someone hears a scout say out loud at a game is not necessarily what the scout really thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Let me just point out that what someone hears a scout say out loud at a game is not necessarily what the scout really thinks. You obviously haven't met that many scouts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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