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Willey101

Rebuild or Retool

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Everyone seems to have their opinions on the matter. I have heard some people go as far as to suggest parting ways with Price to move up in the draft to grab Yakupov and then deal our 3rd to move down to Malcolm Subban?

Just curious as to what people would prefer.

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Subban is 3-5 years away from the NHL, I wouldn't do that.

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Somehow dealing away a young franchise goalie is low on Molson's priority list and rightly so,

I have said only 2 real needs, big d-man needed till Pateryn, Ellis or Tinordi ready and i would aim for Bryan Allen (or a similar d-man, even an OBrian maybe)?

And a switch of one of top 2 centres, Thorton, Marleau, Getzlaf or Stastny, for Plekanec & stuff maybe?

Or failing to get a upgrade at centre, find a top quality winger like Parise, Iginla, or Kane.

Other than more offensive production and a crease clearing d-man, no big issues at all.

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If there's one player we shouldn't trade no matter what, it's Carey Price.

P.K., on the other hand, might be the player we can get the most in return and the player with the best trade-value/real-value ratio.

We seem to be going toward a crazy summer with lots of great assets on the trade market. Subban might be the key in a blockbuster deal. No question the Habs can't just sit tight and add a 3rd liner via UFA.

Here's Mathias Brunet's list today of star players possibly on the market this Summer:

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hockey/201204/25/01-4518717-lnh-beaucoup-de-materiel-a-echanges.php

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Trading Subban could be as bad (if not worse) than trading Chelios, IMO.

There are three guys who are near untouchables to me, unless a team massively overpays us for them... Price, Subban, and Patches.

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Unless you are getting a Malkin back, there is absolutely no way you trade Subban.

I would not trade subban for a Thornton , marleau, or either of the Stall centers. Doing so may plug a hole at centre, but would leave a much bigger hole on the D.

If there's one player we shouldn't trade no matter what, it's Carey Price.

P.K., on the other hand, might be the player we can get the most in return and the player with the best trade-value/real-value ratio.

We seem to be going toward a crazy summer with lots of great assets on the trade market. Subban might be the key in a blockbuster deal. No question the Habs can't just sit tight and add a 3rd liner via UFA.

Here's Mathias Brunet's list today of star players possibly on the market this Summer:

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hockey/201204/25/01-4518717-lnh-beaucoup-de-materiel-a-echanges.php

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Agreed. I think Subban has much more raw talent then Chelios did. It remains to be seen whether he matches his intensity, competitiveness, hockey sense/decision making, commitment and desire to win.

Trading Subban would be as bad (if not worse) than trading Chelios, IMO.

There are three guys who are near untouchables to me, unless a team massively overpays us for them... Price, Subban, and Patches.

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Agreed. I think Subban has much more raw talent then Chelios did. It remains to be seen whether he matches his intensity, competitiveness, hockey sense/decision making, commitment and desire to win.

Subban today is also younger than when we gave up on Chelios which is why I saw it could be worse.

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This team has lots of good elements and there is no way this is a 'total rebuild' situation. I'm closer to DON - we need a top-3 or at least top-6 winger, a stablizing veteran top-4 defenceman, and perhaps an upgrade at C (although I've said repeatedly that I think a resurgent Pleks and a DD who contyinues to perform at this level would be acceptable if they could be matched with a major upgrade at W, e.g., Parise).

Anyone trading Pacioretty, Price or Subban had better get absolutely monster return (c.f. Habs29 on Malkin), or else I will personally and repeatedly run them over with a zamboni. Subban is a potential superstar, Price is too, and Patches could be a PPG power forward before all is said and done. Trading any of them is clinically insane.

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I don't think we are that far away. I would be leary on trading assets away just to get the new GM's signature on the team. Burke did that in Toronto, and traded away assets that he could of used. You know how that played out. You can trade anybody but you better get a good return. I do believe we will get that big #1 centerman in the draft. At one time the hardest person to get was that #1 elite goalie, I think it is that centerman now. I think Subban might get you a pretty good centerman, and if push come to shove, I would pull the trigger. I think defenseman, even elite defensemen, are much easier to find. The new GM, in my mind, should assess the talent he has before he does anything. That personnel also has to fit the new coach and hopefully the new philosophy. I have personnally seen enough of the firefly approach.

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I don't think we are that far away. I would be leary on trading assets away just to get the new GM's signature on the team. Burke did that in Toronto, and traded away assets that he could of used. You know how that played out. You can trade anybody but you better get a good return. I do believe we will get that big #1 centerman in the draft. At one time the hardest person to get was that #1 elite goalie, I think it is that centerman now. I think Subban might get you a pretty good centerman, and if push come to shove, I would pull the trigger. I think defenseman, even elite defensemen, are much easier to find. The new GM, in my mind, should asset the talent he has before he does anything. That personnel also has to fit the new coach and hopefully the new philosophy. I have personnally seen enough of the firefly approach.

Not sure what firefly approach is? But till Tnordi/Beaulieu/Ellis and Dumba develop to NHL readiness i wouldnt dare trade Subban, he is about the only "Core" skater on the roster i think and it would have to be a sceaming good deal.

There are alot more good centremen out there than there are Prices, i would guess?

Also whomever is picked at #3 this year will have no bearing on 2013-14 roster and likely only a relatively small impact in 2014-15, so retooling/rebuilding plan should totally disregard some saviour riding in from draft on a white horse for next year.

In the same way Timmins has to pick from 2 possible choices (given Yakupov goes #1) and i bet he will simply take best player left after 1st two are chosen, no matter of position he plays.

I mean could you really lose with either Galchenyuk or a Dumba?

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Not sure what firefly approach is? But till Tnordi/Beaulieu/Ellis and Dumba develop to NHL readiness i wouldnt dare trade Subban, he is about the only "Core" skater on the roster i think and it would have to be a sceaming good deal. There are alot more good centremen out there than there are Prices, i would guess? Also whomever is picked at #3 this year will have no bearing on 2013-14 roster and likely only a relatively small impact in 2014-15, so retooling/rebuilding plan should totally disregard some saviour riding in from draft on a white horse for next year. In the same way Timmins has to pick from 2 possible choices (given Yakupov goes #1) and i bet he will simply take best player left after 1st two are chosen, no matter of position he plays. I mean could you really lose with either Galchenyuk or a Dumba?
If anybody thinks that this draft is going to solve our issues going into the next couple years they are nuts. There may be more elite centers out there than goaltenders but there are not more available. I like Price, but at times his play has been pedestrian and I have yet to see that goalie that warranted a #5 pick overall. Firefly would be top lines coming in at average 5'10" 185lbs wet.

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Trade a second pick and weber or diaz to washington for neuvirth then deal Price to the jackets for nash.

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Yeah, lets get a goalie with a 902 sv % and use him to replace Price.... Great idea, not.

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Trade a second pick and weber or diaz to washington for neuvirth then deal Price to the jackets for nash.

Ridiculous. I know you really don't like Price... but we can go after a star forward with Gomer's cap space. Don't need to trade our star player.. for one who is washing up soon.

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I see a top six hole, two bottom six holes and a defenceman hole.

I also see Gomez, Bourque, Kaberle and Weber needing to be cleared out.

That would leave us with (arguing lines combos here would be about as big of a waste of time as arguing about Price with Kaboom):

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Gionta

HOLE - Plekanec - Cole

HOLE - Eller - Leblanc

White - HOLE - HOLE

HOLE

Subban - Gorges

Markov - Emelin

HOLE - Diaz

HOLE

Price

Budaj

Re-signing Moen could fill a hole, same with Darche as the 13th forward again. i would be fine with keeping Kaberle and moving Diaz to the 7th Defenceman role if we find a blueliner that can eat up 18 minutes and is reliable. I also think more attention needs to be paid to the fourth line. It cannot be a scrap line.

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Yeah, lets get a goalie with a 902 sv % and use him to replace Price.... Great idea, not.

this true if he was our goalie we would end up in 28th next year. Price is a good goalie but you should get over your man crush and take off the blinder and see there is other goalie out there. Washington is by far not a d first team he is a good goalie

Ridiculous. I know you really don't like Price... but we can go after a star forward with Gomer's cap space. Don't need to trade our star player.. for one who is washing up soon.

Nash is washed up? that is ridiculous

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That would leave us with (arguing lines combos here would be about as big of a waste of time as arguing about Price with Kaboom):

ahmen

Nash is washed up? that is ridiculous

He is 27 hasn't had a 70 point year in 4 seasons last year he got a lovely 59 points. You can say he is on a bad team and all... but look at Kovalchuck his numbers have fallen since he wasn't the focal point of their offense. I'm not convinced he is the star he is made out to be, could be very wrong, but I wouldn't ever trade Price for him. Price has much more value.

Also I said "washing up" hasn't happened yet, but it will sooner before later.

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Nash may not be washed up but how many of you want a 60pt winger with a 7.8 million dollar cap hit till 2018.

And his contract is back loaded.... its not one of those front loaded contracts where he makes nothing in the last few years.

http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=586

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If anybody thinks that this draft is going to solve are issues going into the next couple years they are nuts. There may be more elite centers out there than goaltenders but there are not more available. I like Price, but at times his play has been pedestrian and I have yet to see that goalie that warranted a #5 pick overall. Firefly would be top lines coming in at average 5'10" 185lbs wet.

In my opinion Price is a franchise goalie and bout same as Fleury and 20 or more teams would kill to have stability between the pipes. Price was drafted a long time ago, what does he being picked at #5 have to do with rebuilding/retooling? Do you think drafting Marc Stall instead would put the Habs in a better spot today?

Sure, you and i am sure some others arnt big fans of his and no he hasnt won any cups yet, but goaltending is not an issue the new GM or Molson will lose any sleep over, nor consider trading away.

Firefly approach by Gainey is just about history already i hope, and i more tweek at centre for upgrade up front is all that is needed. Especially if Gallagher is as good as we hope, casue i dont think having all of Desharnais, Gionta, Plekanec would allow for Gallagher to be added to top 6. Again would have 4 smallish top 6 guys, which is 1 too many in my opinion.

Maybe Gallagher can play 3rd line starting out? would be out of his element i think becasue he needs ice time and skilled offensive guys to play with to be most effective.

But him on a line with Eller and Leblanc may work fine (but i see Eller as a #2 centre sooner than later)?

He is just like Gionta and Pacioretty, i that he shoots alot and from everywhere. But, see how he does in Halilton first i suppose.

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The thing about guys like Gallagher and Gionta is that their size has never prevented them from being dominant in the leagues they have played in. Would anyone question a line of Theo Fleury, Martin St. Louis and Stan Mikita in their prime? Only a person who judges skill by size because they'll be able to work every corner and battle any defensive line you put up against them.

Adding Gallagher if he hits his potential might make us smaller but it certainly wouldn't make us a weaker team.

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I am not moving Price unless I get a monster offer despite what you might have read into what I said. It would be hard to speculate what those three would do as a unit in todays game, but looking at the teams still in the playoffs big seems to be carrying the day.

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I am not moving Price unless I get a monster offer despite what you might have read into what I said. It would be hard to speculate what those three would do as a unit in todays game, but looking at the teams still in the playoffs big seems to be carrying the day.

I thought you were saying Price is run of mill goalie, which i would disagree with and goaltending issue or trading Price is just so far fetched and off the radar that is not even worth discussing for a retooling of 2012-13 roster. No offense intended, just how i see it and i get defensive when people criticize or start pondering trading Price even before he has developed fully.

I also dont agree bigger is always better, it can be but there are so many super skilled impact leaders who are sub 6 foot and <200lbs, that going big like San Jose just dosent always pay off.

Likely a mix is best and why almost every NHL barely varies from average of 6'0" and 200lb and Habs are right in the middle as well.

But to have a couple 6'3" or 4" 220-230lb skilled guys or guys who screen or run over goalies never hurts.

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Boston is done.

Philly is smaller than Pittsburgh (especially Philly's top 2 centres) and Pittsburgh initiated most of the crap in that series.

Vancouver went big, and the trade of Hodgson for Kassian absolutely killed that team. Took away their three lines of offence, and the guy who should have replaced Daniel Sedin on the top line after the injury.

Phoenix beat the bigger Chicago team.

Yes things are getting rough and chippy out there, but I'm not sure that big is carrying the day.

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Boston is done.

Philly is smaller than Pittsburgh (especially Philly's top 2 centres) and Pittsburgh initiated most of the crap in that series.

Vancouver went big, and the trade of Hodgson for Kassian absolutely killed that team. Took away their three lines of offence, and the guy who should have replaced Daniel Sedin on the top line after the injury.

Phoenix beat the bigger Chicago team.

Yes things are getting rough and chippy out there, but I'm not sure that big is carrying the day.

What's winning the day, by and large, is great goaltending, total team commitment, grinding play and resolute boxing out of the slot. Indeed, I could impishly point out that a lot of these teams are practicing what is, in effect, Jacques Martin hockey.

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