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Subban traded to Nashville

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Well whether we like THE TRADE or not. It is done no turning back now. So I as a Habs fan will of course cheer for Shea Weber and learn to hate PK. ghg

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2 hours ago, DON said:

Yes is partially correct; but he hasn't a clue why and maybe why he hasn't moved on and still chirping the Habs. One day he might figure out what professional means, but he is just one of 600 non-Hab NHLers so, other than his FanClub who cares what he thinks now...GHG.

 

Weber seems as advertised and impressive debut vs a AHL team in NHL sweaters.

 

Ray Ferraro was discussing this on Vancouver radio yesterday. Asked about whether Subban is the NHL's equivalent of Reggie Jackson, he replied that Jackson was insufferably arrogant, and nothing in Subban's persona suggests arrogance; he went on to say that 'in a league that is devoid of personality' it's good to have PK Subban. I couldn't agree more with this. Your accusation that he is 'unprofessional' is predicated upon the very model of 'professionalism' as personality-free humourlessness and utter negation of individuality that makes the NHL today so dreary. Subban represent a different model, a much more 'Millennial' model that allows for character and self-expression while also bringing it every single shift, game in and game out. I suspect that as time passes, the dominant NHL model is going to become less and less palatable to younger generations, because it's a completely hide-bound all-controlling 'corporate' approach.  Unless hockey culture can accommodate itself to the Subbans of the world, it eventually risks turning into the CFL - locked into older demographics that think self-expression and creative individuality are things to be punished.

 

As for the "GHG Subban is gone, who cares about him" philosophy, I can see it...but the same reasoning would also have said, "Roy and Keane are gone, Thibault and Ruscinsky and Kovalenko are here, rah rah rah, go team go!!!!" No, I'm not trying to say that Weber is a bad player or that this trade is the equivalent of that one (it ain't). But the mentality that says "GTG no matter what!!!" is too mindless for me. Subban's the coolest dude in all of hockey and we traded him away for what is basically a lateral hockey move (in the immediate term). Those who dislike the 'automaton' model of hockey will dislike the trade on a 'personality' level and what it represents, and so will be unwilling to just blindly sing hosannahs to the gods of MB and MT. And that's without getting into the debate on a purely 'hockey' level.

 

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Subban brought it every shift huh? Lol, sometimes it was great, sometimes what he brought was a game costing give away too, guys he never walked on water....sometimes what he brought was shit like "I don't get paid to score goals".

 

Great player, great character and personality, but so is Weber, just in a more mundane or quiet way.

 

The way I look at it is, Subban,  more often than not, is the type of player that inspires the other team to beat him, hatred and loathing like. Weber makes players nervous and on edge, respect like you know?

 

I really believe the Habs are a better team with Weber. F@%k Subban.

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1 hour ago, KoRP said:

....sometimes what he brought was shit like "I don't get paid to score goals".

 

This quote is never going to be used properly or with what he said after that. Great way for people to justify the trade for themselves to think he was talking about himself and not making a point for what being part of a team means.

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11 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Ray Ferraro was discussing this on Vancouver radio yesterday. Asked about whether Subban is the NHL's equivalent of Reggie Jackson, he replied that Jackson was insufferably arrogant, and nothing in Subban's persona suggests arrogance; he went on to say that 'in a league that is devoid of personality' it's good to have PK Subban. I couldn't agree more with this. Your accusation that he is 'unprofessional' is predicated upon the very model of 'professionalism' as personality-free humourlessness and utter negation of individuality that makes the NHL today so dreary. Subban represent a different model, a much more 'Millennial' model that allows for character and self-expression while also bringing it every single shift, game in and game out. I suspect that as time passes, the dominant NHL model is going to become less and less palatable to younger generations, because it's a completely hide-bound all-controlling 'corporate' approach.  Unless hockey culture can accommodate itself to the Subbans of the world, it eventually risks turning into the CFL - locked into older demographics that think self-expression and creative individuality are things to be punished.

 

As for the "GHG Subban is gone, who cares about him" philosophy, I can see it...but the same reasoning would also have said, "Roy and Keane are gone, Thibault and Ruscinsky and Kovalenko are here, rah rah rah, go team go!!!!" No, I'm not trying to say that Weber is a bad player or that this trade is the equivalent of that one (it ain't). But the mentality that says "GTG no matter what!!!" is too mindless for me. Subban's the coolest dude in all of hockey and we traded him away for what is basically a lateral hockey move (in the immediate term). Those who dislike the 'automaton' model of hockey will dislike the trade on a 'personality' level and what it represents, and so will be unwilling to just blindly sing hosannahs to the gods of MB and MT. And that's without getting into the debate on a purely 'hockey' level.

 

Since we're talking about personality and how it relates to the trade, for me it's as simple as this. During the ordeal, Bergevin made a statement that people outside of the organization, including Ray Ferraro, don't know everything. 

 

If the statement is true, he was clearly indicating what Subban is confirming with his "personality trade" statement. Being a professional athlete & coach myself, I've been through similar things and I can tell you that it's difficult to keep your mouth shut when you feel as though management has treated you like crap. You want to tell someone. For that reason and based on his statements I believe that he had heard things in the past from management about things relating to his personality and public persona.  He continued to be himself which I can actually respect (depending on whether or not things he did rubbed his teammates the wrong way) and management showed him the door.

 

The other side of the spectrum would be that Bergevin lied when he said we as fans don't know everything because he knew the majority of fans wouldn't swallow anything else. I don't know why any of us would want this to be the case because then the organization has some serious issues. There hasn't been enough evidence to suggest that this is the case.

 

To sum up, while I can understand that some people would laugh at those who blindly follow management without question, I could see a situation where Subban being moved was a decision that has been welcomed with open arms to those within the organization.  Including many teammates. That's before getting into the discussion of what Weber brings to the team. 

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12 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Ray Ferraro was discussing this on Vancouver radio yesterday. Asked about whether Subban is the NHL's equivalent of Reggie Jackson, he replied that Jackson was insufferably arrogant, and nothing in Subban's persona suggests arrogance; he went on to say that 'in a league that is devoid of personality' it's good to have PK Subban. I couldn't agree more with this. Your accusation that he is 'unprofessional' is predicated upon the very model of 'professionalism' as personality-free humourlessness and utter negation of individuality that makes the NHL today so dreary. Subban represent a different model, a much more 'Millennial' model that allows for character and self-expression while also bringing it every single shift, game in and game out. I suspect that as time passes, the dominant NHL model is going to become less and less palatable to younger generations, because it's a completely hide-bound all-controlling 'corporate' approach.  Unless hockey culture can accommodate itself to the Subbans of the world, it eventually risks turning into the CFL - locked into older demographics that think self-expression and creative individuality are things to be punished.

 

As for the "GHG Subban is gone, who cares about him" philosophy, I can see it...but the same reasoning would also have said, "Roy and Keane are gone, Thibault and Ruscinsky and Kovalenko are here, rah rah rah, go team go!!!!" No, I'm not trying to say that Weber is a bad player or that this trade is the equivalent of that one (it ain't). But the mentality that says "GTG no matter what!!!" is too mindless for me. Subban's the coolest dude in all of hockey and we traded him away for what is basically a lateral hockey move (in the immediate term). Those who dislike the 'automaton' model of hockey will dislike the trade on a 'personality' level and what it represents, and so will be unwilling to just blindly sing hosannahs to the gods of MB and MT. And that's without getting into the debate on a purely 'hockey' level.

 

You have some talent with words buddy 

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19 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Ray Ferraro was discussing this on Vancouver radio yesterday. Asked about whether Subban is the NHL's equivalent of Reggie Jackson, he replied that Jackson was insufferably arrogant, and nothing in Subban's persona suggests arrogance; he went on to say that 'in a league that is devoid of personality' it's good to have PK Subban. I couldn't agree more with this. Your accusation that he is 'unprofessional' is predicated upon the very model of 'professionalism' as personality-free humourlessness and utter negation of individuality that makes the NHL today so dreary. Subban represent a different model, a much more 'Millennial' model that allows for character and self-expression while also bringing it every single shift, game in and game out. I suspect that as time passes, the dominant NHL model is going to become less and less palatable to younger generations, because it's a completely hide-bound all-controlling 'corporate' approach.  Unless hockey culture can accommodate itself to the Subbans of the world, it eventually risks turning into the CFL - locked into older demographics that think self-expression and creative individuality are things to be punished.

 

As for the "GHG Subban is gone, who cares about him" philosophy, I can see it...but the same reasoning would also have said, "Roy and Keane are gone, Thibault and Ruscinsky and Kovalenko are here, rah rah rah, go team go!!!!" No, I'm not trying to say that Weber is a bad player or that this trade is the equivalent of that one (it ain't). But the mentality that says "GTG no matter what!!!" is too mindless for me. Subban's the coolest dude in all of hockey and we traded him away for what is basically a lateral hockey move (in the immediate term). Those who dislike the 'automaton' model of hockey will dislike the trade on a 'personality' level and what it represents, and so will be unwilling to just blindly sing hosannahs to the gods of MB and MT. And that's without getting into the debate on a purely 'hockey' level.

 

 

Awesome post man, couldn't agree more. Subban recently said himself he believed this wasn't a hockey trade, but a personality trade. I think this holds a lot of truth. 

 

Love Weber. But Nashville is in for a treat. I'll never understand the Subban hate I saw from habs fans after the trade. Not trying to spark the trade debate, just saying regardless of where he is, Subban is a rare gem

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As much as I like Subban seeing his tweet on Thursday was just a bit much. We get it you didn't want to be traded. It is starting to feel like Subban is a women scorned.

 

He puts that tweet out there on Webers Montreal debut I don't know just felt a bit unnesseary. Now look at Weber he has been nothing but professional during this whole situation and actually looks like he is looking forward to his new adventure with Montreal. Weber has all the right to feel like Subban but he's not out of respect for both clubs and new teammates.

 

But you know Weber is a good old  Canadian robot with no personality...

 

 

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Subban didn't make a tweet

 

Subban was asked a question about what he thought about the trade, by a Sports Illustrated reporter, on the night of his first game in Nashville.  The reporter tweeted the answer.  Yes, Subban's first game at home in Nashville, was the same night as Weber's first game in Montreal. 

 

Lets be clear here. 

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2 hours ago, Meller93 said:

 

Awesome post man, couldn't agree more. Subban recently said himself he believed this wasn't a hockey trade, but a personality trade. I think this holds a lot of truth. 

 

Love Weber. But Nashville is in for a treat. I'll never understand the Subban hate I saw from habs fans after the trade. Not trying to spark the trade debate, just saying regardless of where he is, Subban is a rare gem

Since when did a players personality become separate from him when he is traded? That makes very little sense, unless maybe are trading Daniel for Henrik Sedin. So is Subban insinuating he and Weber brings the exact same game, are exact same in leadership, with teammates, with the coaches, etc, or is that all simply personality and has zero to do with Habs being more successful or not?

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1 minute ago, DON said:

Since when did a players personality become separate from him when he is traded? That makes very little sense, unless maybe are trading Daniel for Henrik Sedin. So is Subban insinuating he and Weber brings the exact same game, are exact same in leadership, with teammates, with the coaches, etc, or is that all simply personality and has zero to do with Habs being more successful or not?

No, he is saying that he doesn't think the main reason he was traded was for the way he plays hockey. He believes that his versus Weber's personality is what lead to the trade. 

 

Basically, If Subban had Subban's game, but Weber's personality, this trade wouldn't have happened.

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33 minutes ago, Meller93 said:

No, he is saying that he doesn't think the main reason he was traded was for the way he plays hockey. He believes that his versus Weber's personality is what lead to the trade. 

 

Basically, If Subban had Subban's game, but Weber's personality, this trade wouldn't have happened.

Unless Subban was actually a real cancer in the locker room then I think it is a bit of a stretch to state that his personality was the main reason for the trade. 

 

Let's not forget that it was Poile who approached Bergevin. Bob Mackenzie had an interview on the topic and stated that while the Habs regime may have had issue with Subban's off ice demeanor, his on ice personality was the exact same as well and Weber fits the mould of what the Habs are looking for on the team better than Subban. 

 

This is is nothing new to any of us and brings up a whole other debate but it wasn't like Bergevin was sweating to get rid of Subban. Some have said that that was the case but it didn't feel that way to me. Weber's name simply came up and then the wheels started rolling. 

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54 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

 

Let's not forget that it was Poile who approached Bergevin. Bob Mackenzie had an interview on the topic and stated that while the Habs regime may have had issue with Subban's off ice demeanor, his on ice personality was the exact same as well and Weber fits the mould of what the Habs are looking for on the team better than Subban.

 

Subban's off-ice 'in the locker room' personality was also an issue with his teammates, despite what they may have said to the media.  Is Subban talented?  Sure.  Is he annoying?  I would say yes, at least to me, and probably to some of the players/coaches.  I never wished him to be traded but now that he's gone and MTL has Weber in his place, this team will still contend.

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59 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

Unless Subban was actually a real cancer in the locker room then I think it is a bit of a stretch to state that his personality was the main reason for the trade. 

 

Let's not forget that it was Poile who approached Bergevin. Bob Mackenzie had an interview on the topic and stated that while the Habs regime may have had issue with Subban's off ice demeanor, his on ice personality was the exact same as well and Weber fits the mould of what the Habs are looking for on the team better than Subban. 

 

This is is nothing new to any of us and brings up a whole other debate but it wasn't like Bergevin was sweating to get rid of Subban. Some have said that that was the case but it didn't feel that way to me. Weber's name simply came up and then the wheels started rolling. 

 

I'm not going to make any claims myself (I don't know why the trade was made), but I'm not sure it's much of a stretch at all. Certainly Weber's playing style is what MT is looking for so it was a  big factor on why we acquired Weber, buuuuuut if subban didn't have such a rockstar personality, and was more of a "good Canadian boy" as Don Cherry would say, I would bet Subban would still be a Hab. 

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Not sure what happened with the formatting up there.

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Subban is a very talented individual who builds his brand. This does not fit the current management nor has it ever actually. So he is out Weber is in. let's move on.

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1 hour ago, Meller93 said:

 

I'm not going to make any claims myself (I don't know why the trade was made), but I'm not sure it's much of a stretch at all. Certainly Weber's playing style is what MT is looking for so it was a  big factor on why we acquired Weber, buuuuuut if subban didn't have such a rockstar personality, and was more of a "good Canadian boy" as Don Cherry would say, I would bet Subban would still be a Hab. 

And if Don Cherry wasn't what he is, I might not cringe whenever I hear him ranting, but like Subban, he is what he is.

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18 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

This quote is never going to be used properly or with what he said after that. Great way for people to justify the trade for themselves to think he was talking about himself and not making a point for what being part of a team means.

 

I'm sure Pacioretty gave him an accidental death stare after the comment though because it was a perfectly appropriate thing to say right?

 

it is actually the opposite, people who HATE the trade try to cover up this situation like a cat in its litter box, disputing that it was meaningless and out of context. When in fact there is more evidence to suggest it was exactly what it was, than not. And it likely got to the level it did because, NEWSFLASH, likely not the first inappropriate locker room moment he has caused. It is no different than having an annoying co-worker who is annoying to most of the staff but proves to be useful at his job so everyone tries to cope with it, but once in awhile when he keeps pushing buttons week after week someone has enough and tells him where to go and how to get there.

 

the death stare was one of these moments, Therrien's harsh post game comments at times were such moments, Markov's reaction to an end of the season question a couple seasons ago was also such a time, countless little scenario's with one common denominator. I will say that I fully agree with Subban on why the trade happened, it was absolutely a philosophy change, a personality trade. His off ice personality would sometimes clash with his team mates, and his on Ice personality was unpredictable, uncontrollable, and probably uncoachable to some degree. Weber brings the entire opposite to the table, he buys into a system,you know what play he is going to make on the ice 97% of the time whether you are a coach, defensive partner, or a fan watching on TV. Off the ice he commands respect from his peers across the league, teammate or opponent, and conducts himself as a quiet stalwart pro on a daily basis.

 

These factors played a role in this trade well before Age, and Talent ever did. 

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13 hours ago, Meller93 said:

Basically, If Subban had Subban's game, but Weber's personality, this trade wouldn't have happened.

He is just struggling to figure out how someone wouldn't want what he brings, narcissists have trouble with rejection. Also that scenario is just plain goofy or seems grasping at straws, he needs to just move on and maybe grow up a bit?

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16 hours ago, Meller93 said:

 

Awesome post man, couldn't agree more. Subban recently said himself he believed this wasn't a hockey trade, but a personality trade. I think this holds a lot of truth. 

 

Love Weber. But Nashville is in for a treat. I'll never understand the Subban hate I saw from habs fans after the trade. Not trying to spark the trade debate, just saying regardless of where he is, Subban is a rare gem

Fans want to align themselves with management because it makes them feel smart and they want to think the team is on the right track no matter what.

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14 hours ago, AshleynSteve Almeida said:

 

I'm sure Pacioretty gave him an accidental death stare after the comment though because it was a perfectly appropriate thing to say right?

 

it is actually the opposite, people who HATE the trade try to cover up this situation like a cat in its litter box, disputing that it was meaningless and out of context. When in fact there is more evidence to suggest it was exactly what it was, than not. And it likely got to the level it did because, NEWSFLASH, likely not the first inappropriate locker room moment he has caused. It is no different than having an annoying co-worker who is annoying to most of the staff but proves to be useful at his job so everyone tries to cope with it, but once in awhile when he keeps pushing buttons week after week someone has enough and tells him where to go and how to get there.

 

the death stare was one of these moments, Therrien's harsh post game comments at times were such moments, Markov's reaction to an end of the season question a couple seasons ago was also such a time, countless little scenario's with one common denominator. I will say that I fully agree with Subban on why the trade happened, it was absolutely a philosophy change, a personality trade. His off ice personality would sometimes clash with his team mates, and his on Ice personality was unpredictable, uncontrollable, and probably uncoachable to some degree. Weber brings the entire opposite to the table, he buys into a system,you know what play he is going to make on the ice 97% of the time whether you are a coach, defensive partner, or a fan watching on TV. Off the ice he commands respect from his peers across the league, teammate or opponent, and conducts himself as a quiet stalwart pro on a daily basis.

 

These factors played a role in this trade well before Age, and Talent ever did. 

 

Awesome post...

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9 hours ago, DON said:

He is just struggling to figure out how someone wouldn't want what he brings, narcissists have trouble with rejection. Also that scenario is just plain goofy or seems grasping at straws, he needs to just move on and maybe grow up a bit?

 

I think you might misunderstand Subban. There was a really great interview he did that really shows you what he's about. If I can find it I'll post a link.

 

For him, there's no need to make hockey the one and only thing in his life. He actually thinks having other focuses helps his game because his passion for the game always feels fresh. 

 

This 'narcissism' isn't actually far off the mark if you remove the negative connotation. Sure I bet Subban loves himself, but there's a difference between self love and Narcissism. You're talking about a guy who spent 10 million bucks on sick kids instead of buying himself a yacht. 

 

Its almost like Subban gets hate for loving life too much.

 

I fail to see how factoring in personality to this trade is grasping at straws. 

Edited by Meller93
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Havent watched it in a while but that's the interview.

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9 hours ago, Lovett's Magnatones said:

Fans want to align themselves with management because it makes them feel smart and they want to think  HOPE the team is on the right track no matter what.

Not sure about the smart part.

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17 hours ago, AshleynSteve Almeida said:

I'm sure Pacioretty gave him an accidental death stare after the comment though because it was a perfectly appropriate thing to say right?

 

It was, if you listen to the full quote.

 

Quote

Weber brings the entire opposite to the table, he buys into a system,you know what play he is going to make on the ice 97% of the time whether you are a coach, defensive partner, or a fan watching on TV. Off the ice he commands respect from his peers across the league, teammate or opponent, and conducts himself as a quiet stalwart pro on a daily basis.

 

All similar things people said about David Clarkson when he was signed by the Leafs.

 

We just watched a Penguins team with Phil Kessel hoist the Cup. We saw a Blackhawks team fighting each other in the locker room lift the Cup up while their best offensive star assaulted cab drivers and got stupid drunk at frat parties. We saw the Kings pack their team with the party boys of the Philadelphia Flyers who "quiet stalwart pro" Chris Pronger got them traded off the team, drink on road games and still win two Stanley Cups. 

 

The only teams that value players that conduct themselves as pros over players that win are loser teams. Montreal traded their best offensive player in the playoffs for the past several post-seasons and replaced him with a guy who just had the worst playoff showing of his entire career. Commanding respect around the league doesn't win you anything in the spring except a respectful handshake when your team gets eliminated.

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