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THE Bobby Orr

Am I the only Habs fan that has had enough of Galchenyuk?

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hab29RETIRED    159
4 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

Kind of the next opposite of this thread, but I didn't know where else to post it.

 

Apparently Chucky is open to taking a 1 year deal.

 

I'm sure it's because he knows he had a down year, just seems a little weird that Brisson would come out and say that.

 

Maybe a one year deal is the best option at this point... 

Of course he is.  I can't see him wanting to stick around based on how he's been screwed around with for the past few years.  A one year deal would take him 1 yr away from being a UFA. As long as he has a good year, he has the option to ask for big money, or wait one ore year to become a UFA and force MB's hand to trade him.

 

he should have been locked up long term before and we should try and use the bad second half to lock him up for 8 years at $6m.  In another two years that price will be over $7m for sure.

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Stogey24    220

5.5 to 6 mill seems pretty reasonable 

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habs rule    392
25 minutes ago, Stogey24 said:

5.5 to 6 mill seems pretty reasonable 

5.5/ 8 years, ad let him play center for gods sake.

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Commandant    599

Why would he take 5.5/8 years when he can likely get 5.5-6 for 1 year from an arbitrator based on his numbers?

 

His agent is saying he wants a 1 year deal cause he doesn't want the long deal.  He wants one-year, cause he thinks he can go out and score like crazy and get a lot more next year.  He wants to bet on himself. 

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illWill    392
1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Why would he take 5.5/8 years when he can likely get 5.5-6 for 1 year from an arbitrator based on his numbers?

 

Because some people make up numbers and term that they want to sign players for, and then when management doesn't do it they get mad at them. Totally disregarding what the player themselves want to do, just waive the magical GM wand and make it happen they say

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32 minutes ago, illWill said:

the magical GM wand and make it happen they say

 

We really need one of those, but alas, they aren't available.

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habs rule    392
2 hours ago, Commandant said:

Why would he take 5.5/8 years when he can likely get 5.5-6 for 1 year from an arbitrator based on his numbers?

 

His agent is saying he wants a 1 year deal cause he doesn't want the long deal.  He wants one-year, cause he thinks he can go out and score like crazy and get a lot more next year.  He wants to bet on himself. 

cause I want him to. It won't happen but what the heck.

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3 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

Of course he is.  I can't see him wanting to stick around based on how he's been screwed around with for the past few years.  A one year deal would take him 1 yr away from being a UFA. As long as he has a good year, he has the option to ask for big money, or wait one ore year to become a UFA and force MB's hand to trade him.

 

he should have been locked up long term before and we should try and use the bad second half to lock him up for 8 years at $6m.  In another two years that price will be over $7m for sure.

 

You're probably right, but I suspect it's highly unlikely that Team Fuddy Duddy will invest that much faith in the kid. After all, he's no Phillip Danault :rolleyes: I still think the likeliest outcome is him being dealt for a less productive player who is 'defensively reliable'

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Commandant    599
48 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

You're probably right, but I suspect it's highly unlikely that Team Fuddy Duddy will invest that much faith in the kid. After all, he's no Phillip Danault :rolleyes: I still think the likeliest outcome is him being dealt for a less productive player who is 'defensively reliable'

 

No... first we give him the one year deal

Then... he explodes offensively and we give him a long term big money deal.

Then after that we trade him for an older player with a more onerous contract. 

 

 

As is tradition. 

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xXx..CK..xXx    125

Alright, so my question is what's in it for management to sign Galchenyuk to a one year deal? Honestly, if they actually do sign him to a one year deal then they clearly have no faith in him and he likely should be traded. He's a 55-65 point player (although he has been a 50 point player so far) and should be paid accordingly. 

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Commandant    599

Whats in it for management?  He can take you to arbitration and force a one year deal. 

 

He has the leverage here in terms of length, if his desire is one year. 

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hab29RETIRED    159
1 hour ago, Commandant said:

Whats in it for management?  He can take you to arbitration and force a one year deal. 

 

He has the leverage here in terms of length, if his desire is one year. 

If I was MB I would offer him up to $7m for 8 years (trying to keep it around the $6.5m range first).  I'd also tell Julien that we've screwed this kid around enoug and he is a centre, so friggin play him as a centre, otherwise show Julien the door.  I'd also hire someone to work with galchenyuk to improve on face offs and mentor him through the summer.   Only if he doesn't take the deal, or isn't willing to put in the work over summer is the only way I'd consider moving him.   But I have zero faith in MB, so they'll probably sign him to a one year deal.

 

there is absolutely no reason why this kid can't be close to a point per game player and would have been one if we didn't have that moron MT behind the bench.

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Stogey24    220

There's going to be issues with Galchenyuk and Julien moving forward. I'd almost guarantee it

 

 

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xXx..CK..xXx    125
17 hours ago, Commandant said:

Whats in it for management?  He can take you to arbitration and force a one year deal. 

 

He has the leverage here in terms of length, if his desire is one year. 

In that case I guess management would argue that he needs to take less than he deserves since it's a one year deal. That may just be what ends up happening here unless MB offers more than Galchenyuk is worth. Not the easiest scenario. 

 

I think it will end up being a one year deal at 5 mil... or 5.25mil

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Commandant    599
5 hours ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

In that case I guess management would argue that he needs to take less than he deserves since it's a one year deal. That may just be what ends up happening here unless MB offers more than Galchenyuk is worth. Not the easiest scenario. 

 

I think it will end up being a one year deal at 5 mil... or 5.25mil

 

That line of argument won't fly with an arbitrator though. 

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21 hours ago, Stogey24 said:

There's going to be issues with Galchenyuk and Julien moving forward. I'd almost guarantee it

 

 

We know how this story ends. We saw it in Boston with Seguin and Hamilton.

 

The Hamilton trade I'm betting is what Bergevin will get for Galchenyuk. A first round pick and two second round picks. 

 

Then he can trade the two second rounders to acquire restricted free agent JP Pageau.

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Stogey24    220
2 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

We know how this story ends. We saw it in Boston with Seguin and Hamilton.

 

The Hamilton trade I'm betting is what Bergevin will get for Galchenyuk. A first round pick and two second round picks. 

 

Then he can trade the two second rounders to acquire restricted free agent JP 

I just want to say that I think Julien is a good coach, but Gallant should have been the guy Beregvin put in the head coach role.

 

The motto as soon as Julien left Boston was that the kids will play. Sure enough, Boston completely turns thing around and makes the playoffs.

 

Good coach, but still has that old school mentality. 

 

I can't remember who it was on tsn 690, but they were saying they really hope Julien isn't too old(school) for this job, with the direction the nhl is heading.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Stogey24 said:

I just want to say that I think Julien is a good coach, but Gallant should have been the guy Beregvin put in the head coach role.

 

The motto as soon as Julien left Boston was that the kids will play. Sure enough, Boston completely turns thing around and makes the playoffs.

 

Good coach, but still has that old school mentality. 

 

I can't remember who it was on tsn 690, but they were saying they really hope Julien isn't too old(school) for this job, with the direction the nhl is heading.

 

I don't know if we can call it old-school anymore. Or rather, I don't think this is an old school problem. It's a hockey philosophy problem.

 

Julien has always had a defensive minded centre in his top six. In Boston he's had Bergeron always there, with Krejci, Savard, Seguin, Soderberg, et al in tow. In his one season in New Jersey he had Gomez and Zajac. Before that in Montreal he had Koivu with Ribeiro, maybe the last time his centres were less defensive and more offensive.

 

Julien comes to Montreal, doesn't have much time, and wants to go with what he knows. He's got Plekanec and Danault as defensive minded centres and he's got Alex Galchenyuk as a more offensive minded centre who is still learning the position and just got off an injury that derailed his near point per game season at that point. Instead of going with Galchenyuk with his up and downs, he went with Danault and Plekanec, since he could rely on them in the backend. 

 

I think he was encouraged by Bergevin to be aggressive in coaching Galchenyuk, hence the fourth line demotion in the playoffs. But when things started getting hairy in the series and Montreal needed offence, we suddenly saw Galchenyuk playing in the top lines. At centre. That tells me that Julien thinks Galchenyuk can play centre and get points for the team, he just doesn't like his overall game.

 

The problem is that Chuck isn't 20 on his ELC. He's 23 needing a new contract and is now publicly saying he wants a one year deal. This isn't the time for tough coaching. This is the time to get the kid comfortable in the position he likes to play in and get him signed long term. Bergevin poisoned the well before Julien showed up, but Claude didn't help things. He should have saw Chuck's previous production, recognized he's just having post-injury slow down, healthy scratched him a few games to get him healthy (and tell people that's the reason so there isn't a big media storm) and then stuck him back in the top six at C.  

 

I think the damage is done and both Galchenyuk and Beaulieu are going to be cut losses soon. That's not an old school problem. Julien was fine playing Danault on his top line and playing Lehkonen in the top six. It's a hockey philosophy problem. The idea that you can't compete without two-way players down the middle.

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DON    9
17 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

I think he was encouraged by Bergevin to be aggressive in coaching Galchenyuk, hence the fourth line demotion in the playoffs. 

Yes, most new coaches just love being told how to coach and how to play their players.

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tyberius67    3
On 6/4/2017 at 4:01 PM, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

I don't know if we can call it old-school anymore. Or rather, I don't think this is an old school problem. It's a hockey philosophy problem.

 

Julien has always had a defensive minded centre in his top six. In Boston he's had Bergeron always there, with Krejci, Savard, Seguin, Soderberg, et al in tow. In his one season in New Jersey he had Gomez and Zajac. Before that in Montreal he had Koivu with Ribeiro, maybe the last time his centres were less defensive and more offensive.

 

Julien comes to Montreal, doesn't have much time, and wants to go with what he knows. He's got Plekanec and Danault as defensive minded centres and he's got Alex Galchenyuk as a more offensive minded centre who is still learning the position and just got off an injury that derailed his near point per game season at that point. Instead of going with Galchenyuk with his up and downs, he went with Danault and Plekanec, since he could rely on them in the backend. 

 

I think he was encouraged by Bergevin to be aggressive in coaching Galchenyuk, hence the fourth line demotion in the playoffs. But when things started getting hairy in the series and Montreal needed offence, we suddenly saw Galchenyuk playing in the top lines. At centre. That tells me that Julien thinks Galchenyuk can play centre and get points for the team, he just doesn't like his overall game.

 

The problem is that Chuck isn't 20 on his ELC. He's 23 needing a new contract and is now publicly saying he wants a one year deal. This isn't the time for tough coaching. This is the time to get the kid comfortable in the position he likes to play in and get him signed long term. Bergevin poisoned the well before Julien showed up, but Claude didn't help things. He should have saw Chuck's previous production, recognized he's just having post-injury slow down, healthy scratched him a few games to get him healthy (and tell people that's the reason so there isn't a big media storm) and then stuck him back in the top six at C.  

 

I think the damage is done and both Galchenyuk and Beaulieu are going to be cut losses soon. That's not an old school problem. Julien was fine playing Danault on his top line and playing Lehkonen in the top six. It's a hockey philosophy problem. The idea that you can't compete without two-way players down the middle.

 

I agreed until that last paragraph, Beaulieu is further along in his evolution as an NHLer at this point, the team saw that here with us, what we saw from him was what we were likely going to get going forward with MAYBE a bit more upside. Galchenyuk is not there yet, and likely won't be there until at least another 2 years, until then everything is possible. He is walking the tight rope right now between underachieving top 3 pick and ready to bust out into a 5 time 30 goal scorer, both players in different parts of their journey towards their potential.

 

As for the philosophy about 2 way centers, lets not forget that Pittsburgh has a great one in Crosby, Chicago has a great one in Toews, L.A has a great on in Kopitar, all recent cup winners. I'd say the philosophy isn't that far off its rocker at all, Julien became a champion on the back of a great 2 way center himself in Bergeron. If anything based on that list of champions, the philosophy has merit.

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hab29RETIRED    159

Button was on NHL radio today and was asked about the Habs. He was asked about 3 specific players and he was on the mark with all of them.

 

Galchenyuk - he is the Habs best option at centre. Focus should be on what he brings to the table - not his shortcomings.  What he brings, the Habs don't have and probably can't acquire.  He should be played at centre.

 

Radulov - if he is looking for 6 or 7 years, you say thank you and see you later.  No way can you give $6 to $7m with term to radulov.  If someone else wants to give more than 3 years at that price, You say goodbye.

 

markov - if he wants $12m/2 yr deal, you say goodbye.  No way you risk more than 1 yr.  I'd do two years, but it would have to be cheap - which he wouldn't do.

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There is absolutely zero #1LD on the market.

 

If Markov walks, Montreal will have to sign a guy like Alzner who is an overrated second pair defenceman and try to put him with Weber. Or a piece of garbage like Del Zotto.

 

Can't wait to see Karl Alzner, Jamie Benn, and NHL rookie Jakub Jerabek handle the Eastern Conference on the left side.

 

 

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hab29RETIRED    159
36 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

There is absolutely zero #1LD on the market.

 

If Markov walks, Montreal will have to sign a guy like Alzner who is an overrated second pair defenceman and try to put him with Weber. Or a piece of garbage like Del Zotto.

 

Can't wait to see Karl Alzner, Jamie Benn, and NHL rookie Jakub Jerabek handle the Eastern Conference on the left side.

 

 

I think you have to push the 1yr with Markov.  But given the over 35 rules, i think its too risky to sign a multi-year expensive contract.  

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10 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think you have to push the 1yr with Markov.  But given the over 35 rules, i think its too risky to sign a multi-year expensive contract.  

 

If he ends up injured, you put him on LTIR.

 

If he doesn't end up injured but ends up bad, you dump him.

 

Teams have been dealing with this now for a while.

 

Let's not forget that Markov had one of the best offensive seasons of any player at his age. 

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Commandant    599

There is a lot of talk about how Julien forced Seguin out of Boston. 

 

Here is a video on the Bruins backroom discussions on the Seguin deal.  Lots of Bruins upper management talking about trading Seguin and lots saying that he's soft, not committed, not good defensively, etc... and a trade should be made.  But the one guy who isn't present, Julien.  Should finally put to rest who was forcing Seguin out of town... Chiarelli and Neely. 

 

 

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