JoeLassister Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 (edited) According with http://www.nhlnumbers.com/phi.html even before signing Brière at 10 millions, and Biron's salary is TBA, they have about 45 millions for next season. And i don't count Smith and Lupul... and Afanasenkov is RFA as well as 2 others guys... WHAT THE HECK !!!! Edited July 5, 2007 by JoeLassister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Well, salary is not the same as the cap hits. For example, it lists Hartnell at 5.2 million, but his cap hit is 4.2. Briere's salary this season will be 10 million, but his cap hit is only 6.5 million. Sanderson was traded. All kinds of little things that that are bringing them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Cap hit shouldn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Well, salary is not the same as the cap hits. For example, it lists Hartnell at 5.2 million, but his cap hit is 4.2. Briere's salary this season will be 10 million, but his cap hit is only 6.5 million. Sanderson was traded. All kinds of little things that that are bringing them down. I don't understand: If a player is traded that has a cap hit of say $7million with the original team; and his last year on contract is $4.5 million, who takes the original cap hit? The new team paying $4.5 Million eats the difference of $2.5 million or the original team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I don't understand: If a player is traded that has a cap hit of say $7million with the original team; and his last year on contract is $4.5 million, who takes the original cap hit? The new team paying $4.5 Million eats the difference of $2.5 million or the original team? The cap hit is the entire contract money divided by the contract length. No matter who he plays for, that is the number which counts against the cap, aka the cap hit. It's to prevent the situation I describe just below. Cap hit shouldn't exist. Absolutely it should. Just think if a team signed a guy to a three year deal for 10, 5, and 1 million a season. That 10-5-1 guy is happy with his 5.3 a year average, and the team ends up with extremely low cap hits after the first year. The next year they could go out and pay a 5 million player and then a 9 million player the next season. Teams would be able to stack themselves by front loading contracts on high end players, opening up room for equally high end players in the coming seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 The cap hit is the entire contract money divided by the contract length. No matter who he plays for, that is the cap hit. Absolutely it should. Just think if a team signed a guy to a three year deal for 10, 5, and 1 million a season. That 10-5-1 guy is happy with his 5.3 a year average, and the team ends up with extremely low cap hits after the first year. The next year they could go out and pay a 5 million player and then a 9 million player the next season. Teams would be able to stack themselves by front loading contracts on high end players, opening up room for equally high end players in the coming seasons. yeah but look at Philly next season they will bust the 53 millions by 10 mill or so... that sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 13 forwards: Briere - 6.5 Gagne - 5.25 Hartnell - 4.2 Knuble - 2.8 Lupul - 2.3 Kapanen - 1.25 Upshall - 1.225 Umberger -1.15 Carter - .942 Richards - .942 Eager - .577 Ruzicka - ~ .6 Cote - .475 7 D-men, not counting the potentially retiring Rathje Timmonen - 6.33 Hatcher - 3.5 Gauthier - 2.1 Smith - 1.976 Kukkonen - .875 Coburn - .701 Jones - .525 2 Goalies: Biron - 3.5 Niitymaki - 1.225 1 Buyout, 1 re-call waiver player Baumgartner - .6 Stevenson - .418 (estimate) The total is 49.961. I have no idea where you're getting a 63 million total from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mils Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Additionally, nhlnumbers hasn't updated the Philadelphia page to their current situation. They're going through team by team and bringing them up to speed. Some team (philly) are not done yet. Take a look at Colorado for an example of what it will look like in a few days. Check back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Philly has 1.5M$ in cap space for next season if anyone cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Philly has 1.5M$ in cap space for next season if anyone cares. How do you figure? I don't see anything wrong with my calculations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 http://www.hockeyanalysis.com/?page_id=340 has them at $49,716,066 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 BLAME IT ON ME, IT'S ALL MY FAULT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 ^ and http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=160500 have almost the same number.. 49,791,534 They have no spare forwards tough and 1 spare D so they're really cutting it close in case of injury.. If a player is injured for 9 games or less he still count against the cap, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 My bad, it's 1.3M$. http://thefourthperiod.com/news/phi070704.html HockeyAnalysis.com is faulty. Sometimes the value they put is the salary and not the cap hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 HockeyAnalysis.com is faulty. Sometimes the value they put is the salary and not the cap hit. I did all my own cap hit calculations, I only used that site as a guide as to what players they had under contract. Anyways, less than a million left or 1.3 left, it's still not the 63 million that Joe was claiming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 (edited) I claim at cap hit as a shame thinking about the 10 millions Brière will earn next season why not sign Lecavalier for a 3 years 20 millions contract 15, 3, 2 ??? that is wack ! Then you would say the cap hit is 6,667 millions but that really sucks. Just my 2 cents from a frustraded fan who saw every big names sign elsewhere than Montréal... I did all my own cap hit calculations, I only used that site as a guide as to what players they had under contract. Anyways, 4 million left or 1.3 left, it's still not the 63 million that Joe was claiming. I said their payroll will bust over 53 millions easily, maybe not the cap hit but with 10 millions to Brière this is already 1/5. Edited July 5, 2007 by Fanpuck33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Suddenly I wouldnt mind having Derian Hatcher for 3.5M a year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I claim at cap hit as a shame thinking about the 10 millions Brière will earn next season why not sign Lecavalier for a 3 years 20 millions contract 15, 3, 2 ??? that is wack ! Then you would say the cap hit is 6,667 millions but that really sucks. Just my 2 cents from a frustraded fan who saw every big names sign elsewhere than Montréal... But what does it matter? Maybe the Canadiens' 5 year offer had the same structure. What does it matter if he's paid 10 million now and 2 million in year 8? They still have the same hit on the salary cap, which is the only number that really matters. Suddenly I wouldnt mind having Derian Hatcher for 3.5M a year... He's a dinosaur. He has almost no value in this league. The Flyers would be thrilled to get rid of his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Suddenly I wouldnt mind having Derian Hatcher for 3.5M a year... Think Rivet but heavier and slower oh yeah and a worse passer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Suddenly I wouldnt mind having Derian Hatcher for 3.5M a year... Think Rivet but heavier and slower oh yeah and a worse passer. Read somewhere that he was the best penaltykilling defenceman last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Suddenly I wouldnt mind having Derian Hatcher for 3.5M a year... Think Rivet but heavier and slower oh yeah and a worse passer. Read somewhere that he was the best penaltykilling defenceman last season. No Lidstrom is the best in every single categories except roughing (Chara, Pronger, etc), shot power (Souray, Aucoin) and skating (Nieds is faster). PP, PK, 5 on 5 i really think he is the best player of the whole NHL since he is better at offense than guys like Crosby at defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 (edited) I claim at cap hit as a shame thinking about the 10 millions Brière will earn next season why not sign Lecavalier for a 3 years 20 millions contract 15, 3, 2 ??? that is wack ! Then you would say the cap hit is 6,667 millions but that really sucks. Just my 2 cents from a frustraded fan who saw every big names sign elsewhere than Montréal... But what does it matter? Maybe the Canadiens' 5 year offer had the same structure. What does it matter if he's paid 10 million now and 2 million in year 8? They still have the same hit on the salary cap, which is the only number that really matters. Speculation... i know they ain't all UFA... Philly Flyers payroll 3years deal to Brière y1 10 mils y2 5 mils y3 1mil cap hit at 6 3years deal to Gagné y1 5 mils y2 5 mils y3 5 mils cap hit at 5 4years deal to Shanahan y1 1mils y2 1 mils y3 1 mils y4 10 mils cap hit at 4,5 5years deal to Perry y1 1 mils y2 2 mils y3 2 mils y4 3 mils y 5 10 mils cap hit 5,5 6years deal to Crosby y1 1 mil y2 1 mil y3 2 mils y4 3 mils y 5 3 mils y6 8 mils cap hit at 6 6years deal to Lidstrom bla bla bla cap hit at 6 10years deal to Dipietro bla bla bla bla bla cap hit a 4 etc etc etc There are 7 excellents hockey players who totalise 36 millions. Just fill the rest of the lineup with fiftheen 1million/season players by promising them thew might win 1 Stanley Cup or 2 in the process and you got a freakin' dynasty with a cap hit of 51 millions 2 under the cap limit.... If i was a player like Kariya or Guerin, Tkatchuk, even youngsters like Robidas, Boucher, Ribeiro... I would jump on the occasion to make only 1 million during 2 seasons and play with this lineup. Don't you ??? Edited July 5, 2007 by JoeLassister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mils Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Just my 2 cents from a frustraded fan who saw every big names sign elsewhere than Montréal... One thing to consider is that some players are intimidated by the fans. I don't know where I read it, but in regards to Ryan Smyth, he seemed to indicate that the fans in Montreal are so rabid, and so quick to jump on a player (a la Brisebois and Theo) that they'd rather play somewhere else for less money. A few guys have chosen less money in a place where they'd rather play and not run the risk of being embarassed and being run out of town. (Smyth, for instance chose Colorado over Long Island because the Isles won't be contenders, and he didn't seem thrilled with management there... and who wouldn't be suspicious with Garth Snow as GM, that crazy Charlie Wang as owner, and that 15 year atrocity to DiPietro.) It seems to me (and apparently to some players) that some fans in hockey are impossible to please; they want the best players, but if the team gives them too much money, then the fans complain bitterly that they overpaid and threw money away. Management can't win either. Another question, Joe, is whether you would have the same complaints about the cap hit if Montreal signed one or two big names with front-loaded contracts. I don't think that, if two of the big name UFA's ended up in Montreal, you would be complaining. I understand that you're frustrated, and rightfully so, it was a disappointing July 1 for the Habs and their fans. However, I contend that it would be equally as frustrating no matter what the system was. The system isn't working against you or any other team. Heck, New York Islanders and Buffalo Sabres had a horrible go of it, not only did they not sign much of anybody, but they lost significant parts of their teams. It was not the right player at the right price, and there was a lot of bad luck (guys simply chosing to go elsewhere.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 Another question, Joe, is whether you would have the same complaints about the cap hit if Montreal signed one or two big names with front-loaded contracts. I don't think that, if two of the big name UFA's ended up in Montreal, you would be complaining. I understand that you're frustrated, and rightfully so, it was a disappointing July 1 for the Habs and their fans. However, I contend that it would be equally as frustrating no matter what the system was. The system isn't working against you or any other team. Heck, New York Islanders and Buffalo Sabres had a horrible go of it, not only did they not sign much of anybody, but they lost significant parts of their teams. It was not the right player at the right price, and there was a lot of bad luck (guys simply chosing to go elsewhere.) Basically i'm complaining about the contracts offered by the Flyers to Brière, Timmonen and Hartnell. With this kind of moves, I think owners could call for a lokout sooner than players think. And I'm also complaining about the fact that Brière MAYBE signed where he could have 10 millions instead of 6 for his first season and then could be deal to another team with a lower salary during years 5-6-7-8 if he decides to drop his no trade clause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) Thanks Fanpuck33 for explaining this cap hit thing to me. Very confusing. The Smyth deal is actually better in Colorado due to taxes. (35% in Colorado, 48% in Quebec) The difference between the two deals is that he would end up with 400K more in Colorado even though Montreal offered longer term. Taxes in Quebec and Ontario compared to our Alberta brothers and sisters is huge. Even if Smyth signed in say Calgary he would have made a significant amount $ more going there instead of Montreal. To counter a Calgary offer of say $7mil per year, Habs would have to offer $8.5mil to be equal in contract $$$. This was on the Team990 as they had a tax accountant on and really opened my eyes. All is not bad as Habs do have a loaded farm team busting at the seams. Go DOGS Go. Go :hlogo: Go. Edited July 6, 2007 by InsaneAVSfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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