How To Stop The Maple Leafs Tuesday Night

[l<OV4L3V]

So...we're 0-2 vs The Maple Leafs...How Do We solve them?

1) Start Carey Price...The Leafs seem to have Huet's number as of late. Huet is 0-3 against the Leafs in his last 3. By having Price in net, it poses new challenges

2) DO NOT let the Leafs gain early momentum...neutralize the crowd by coming hard out of the gate like we did against the Senators

3) No irresponsible penalties early in the game (Wellwood, Tucker, and McCabe are going to help Toronto's PP a lot)

4) In order to win, they must play a full 60 Minutes of hockey...not 57...not 58...not even 59:59

5) Bench the slackers...Promote the diggers. If Michael Ryder continues his poor play, demote him from the first line within the first 5 minutes of the game.

IMO, a changing up of lines is necessary so our 5 on 5 play improves.

Higgins-Koivu-Chips

Kostitsyn-Pleks-Kovy

Kostopoulis-Smoke-Grabovski

Lats-Begin-Ryder

D pairings stay the same....but I would like to see Dandenault go in place of Cube or Gorges

6) Powerplay must be effective and stay hot, however, in order to get powerplays...they must achieve #2 and #4 first. Also, it would be nice to get a little

more congestion in front of Toskala and a few attempts to tip shots

7) Do not sit back and go into "defensive mode". It is important to remain defensively responsible, yet forecheck and pressure has to be executed...We can't

nurse a one goal (or even a two goal..as we remember the nightmare game of the season last year) Lead!!!!!

If all seven of these are Accomplished, I can see the Canadiens coming out with a big victory.

Any other keys to the game...add them to the thread

GO :hlogo: GO

Edited November 12, 2007 by l<OV4L3V

[Habitforming]

I think your looking too far ino it and looking for reasons to change things.

The only 2 things you need to do to beat ANY team is play a full 60 mins and have your goalie play a strong game without allowing any weak goals.

All the changes you suggest would give Toronto the win as too many changes are worse.

The 5 on 5 play hasn't been bad, and they are still not getting the breaks (Higgins and his 27 goal posts, Ryder and his delay in shooting etc.) they will come, they are doing all the right things for it to happen. If there was a lack of effort, then ok, mix it up a bit, but there isn't a problem there.

This is beating a dead horse, but Gainey needs to make a deal for a scoring winger/centre right now. It doesn't have to be a number one centre, or perrenial all-star, just someone of equal production to Ryder. Naturally we want the best player, but it isn't necessary, just need the same presence Ryder was supposed to bring and it changes everything. The top line would have even more confidence then they do now, and that's saying something.

The habs will win this one, it isn't a Saturday CBC game where the refs feel like they have to make it on camera as much as possible.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Habitforming

[Cataclaw]

I disagree, Habitforming. l<OV4L3V isn't proposing any drastic changes, he's just talking about simple guidelines, which should be applicable to any game really (excluding the bit about changing the lines).

The Habs can definitely sock it to the Laffs (remember back to back wins by the scores of 5-2, 5-1 two seasons ago? This was when Kovalev laid on The People's Elbow on Darcy *ucker)

I'm confident we'll come out with the W. Let's face it, the Laffs have been lucky, both sides know this, but their luck is about to run out.

[CBHabs_fan]

Good points on most, but disagree with a couple..

If by poor play on Ryder's part you mean no goals within 5 minutes, then you are jumping the gun. I think he will break out on the PP. Also, he has been working hard IMO, so you cant bench him for lack of effort.

Secondly, there's no way I put Dandenault back on D. He has been a better forward this year than I've ever seen him play D. Tenacious forecheck and even creates scoring chances on the 4th line. While I've been cursing him out loud the last couple years on D, I've been praising him up front lately.

[Chris]

For the Habs to beat anyone it's simple.

Outwork the other team for 60 minutes.

Stop trying to win games 1-0.

[CBHabs_fan]

Just another bit of food for thought..

I know we all seem to agree that it would make sense to start Price tomorrow night. I wonder if Guy has looked at it from a different angle at any time. If we start Price and he wins. Great. Except that you'd be obliged to start him every game against the leafs. Also, would you get further into Huet's head? (I cant beat the leafs.. Price can beat the leafs..if I lose to the leafs again, they'll blame me and wish Price was in nets, etc.)

The consensus is also that Huet is our #1 (God knows he's shown it lately). So do we start our "backup" against the Leafs for 5 more games? What if the last game of the year means something? What if we met them in the playoffs. Would we want to wait till then for Huet to exercise his demons?

Somebody posted that this was a lower-pressure game, being tuesday, non-HNIC, etc. That being said, a good case could be made for Huet to start, and I wouldnt be surprised to see either one of the 2 in nets tomorrow.

[Chris]

The Habs schedule has picked up and there are several back to back games. Price will start his fair share of them. If Price starts against the Leafs then good for him, if he wins even better.

Why is everyone so worried about hurting people's feelings and effecting there play? Huet's goals against the Leafs were soft, simple as that.

In a sport that you need every point possible, you can't worry or wait for Huet to exercise his demons.

I'll be the first to say it, watch and see. Price will start to see more and more time and become the number 1 by the end of January.

Now I am also not dumb enough to think that the other 18 are just as responsible in losing to the Leafs as the goalies.

[Wamsley01]

Just another bit of food for thought..

I know we all seem to agree that it would make sense to start Price tomorrow night. I wonder if Guy has looked at it from a different angle at any time. If we start Price and he wins. Great. Except that you'd be obliged to start him every game against the leafs. Also, would you get further into Huet's head? (I cant beat the leafs.. Price can beat the leafs..if I lose to the leafs again, they'll blame me and wish Price was in nets, etc.)

The consensus is also that Huet is our #1 (God knows he's shown it lately). So do we start our "backup" against the Leafs for 5 more games? What if the last game of the year means something? What if we met them in the playoffs. Would we want to wait till then for Huet to exercise his demons?

Somebody posted that this was a lower-pressure game, being tuesday, non-HNIC, etc. That being said, a good case could be made for Huet to start, and I wouldnt be surprised to see either one of the 2 in nets tomorrow.

Why do people assume that Huet is so mentally weak that if he did not play against the Leafs he would doubt himself? THe same things were said about Huet after he shut out Buffalo, how will he react that Price is playing? He was spectacular against the Sens. Price has been solid if not spectacular in every game, Huet has had some lemons against the Leafs. Why not see what the kid can do?

Maybe his puck handling ability helps to neutralize one of the Leafs greatest strengths against the Habs. The Strong forecheck.

Maybe a 6'4" goalie will have an easier time seeing around Sundin, Antropov, Ponikoravsky, Kilger etc.

There is more to it then just switching up goalies. It also gives the Habs brass another opportunity to see what kind of stones this kid has. The Habs have struggled with the Leafs for almost 10 years now, this is probably more of a challenge for Price than facing Pittsburgh or Ottawa.

Personally I view Huet as 1 and Price 1A. We are not throwing Valiquette out there, or Thibault, or Lalime. I have no worries about our goaltending when either of them are out there.

To beat the Leafs you need to create speed through the neutral zone. Their defense is terrible, they cannot handle speed down the wings, that will create PP opportunities. You need to neutralize their forecheck, they create most of their offense off their huge forwards cycling down low. The habs need to set the tempo. They cannot sit on a lead vs Toronto because dumping it out and settling in at your line allows the Leafs to set up shop down low off the dump ins.

The Habs have played 2 fairly solid games versus the Leafs this year. Unfortunately they have coincided with Huet's 2 worst games and Toskala's 2 best games. They will get their chances. Let's hope whoever Carbo starts in goal can raise his level and outplay one of the Leafs sieves.

[Habsfan]

I agree with mkost of what Wamsley said. The Boys need to skate hard to beat Toronto's weak defensive core. Keep the puck i the offensive zone, and the opposing team can't score on you.

I thikn Price should be in nets tomorrow. Huet has given up at least 1 or 2 weak goals in each of his last 3 games vs. the Leafs. Let's see what Price can do!

[JMMR]

Just another bit of food for thought..

I know we all seem to agree that it would make sense to start Price tomorrow night. I wonder if Guy has looked at it from a different angle at any time. If we start Price and he wins. Great. Except that you'd be obliged to start him every game against the leafs. Also, would you get further into Huet's head? (I cant beat the leafs.. Price can beat the leafs..if I lose to the leafs again, they'll blame me and wish Price was in nets, etc.)

The consensus is also that Huet is our #1 (God knows he's shown it lately). So do we start our "backup" against the Leafs for 5 more games? What if the last game of the year means something? What if we met them in the playoffs. Would we want to wait till then for Huet to exercise his demons?

Somebody posted that this was a lower-pressure game, being tuesday, non-HNIC, etc. That being said, a good case could be made for Huet to start, and I wouldnt be surprised to see either one of the 2 in nets tomorrow.

That does not make sense becuase the started Price against Boston and Ottawa already it wont mean he gets every start against those teams.

[CBHabs_fan]

Why do people assume that Huet is so mentally weak that if he did not play against the Leafs he would doubt himself? THe same things were said about Huet after he shut out Buffalo, how will he react that Price is playing? He was spectacular against the Sens. Price has been solid if not spectacular in every game, Huet has had some lemons against the Leafs. Why not see what the kid can do?

Maybe his puck handling ability helps to neutralize one of the Leafs greatest strengths against the Habs. The Strong forecheck.

Maybe a 6'4" goalie will have an easier time seeing around Sundin, Antropov, Ponikoravsky, Kilger etc.

There is more to it then just switching up goalies. It also gives the Habs brass another opportunity to see what kind of stones this kid has. The Habs have struggled with the Leafs for almost 10 years now, this is probably more of a challenge for Price than facing Pittsburgh or Ottawa.

Personally I view Huet as 1 and Price 1A. We are not throwing Valiquette out there, or Thibault, or Lalime. I have no worries about our goaltending when either of them are out there.

To beat the Leafs you need to create speed through the neutral zone. Their defense is terrible, they cannot handle speed down the wings, that will create PP opportunities. You need to neutralize their forecheck, they create most of their offense off their huge forwards cycling down low. The habs need to set the tempo. They cannot sit on a lead vs Toronto because dumping it out and settling in at your line allows the Leafs to set up shop down low off the dump ins.

The Habs have played 2 fairly solid games versus the Leafs this year. Unfortunately they have coincided with Huet's 2 worst games and Toskala's 2 best games. They will get their chances. Let's hope whoever Carbo starts in goal can raise his level and outplay one of the Leafs sieves.

Please dont paraphrase my comment. I do not think Huet is mentally weak. Quite the opposite. Hence the reason he came back strong this weak after losing to the leafs. But this is the same board that almost unanimously said that the Leafs have Huet's number (dont forget last season either when you talk about only 2 games).

I'm not suggesting that either goalie should start, but that there are good reasons for the coaching staff to consider either. If I thought Huet was mentally weak, I wouldnt even suggest he start after the last Habs/Leafs game.

Personally, I ALSO think that we have a 1 and 1a...hence the reason I put "backup" in quotations.

Agreed, both goalies have played great. You are not makig any revelations there, and nobody is arguing that point. I do think though, that its gonna become more difficult to decide who to start, at this rate. This is not a bad problem to have, but will make for some interesting decisions come trade deadline.

I think Price will start tuesday , but again, I could see good reason for Huet to get the nod.

[CBHabs_fan]

That does not make sense becuase the started Price against Boston and Ottawa already it wont mean he gets every start against those teams.

??

I agree, but Price did not repeatedly lose high-presssure games against those teams previous to Huet's starts, so it really isn't a good analogy.

[CBHabs_fan]

The Habs schedule has picked up and there are several back to back games. Price will start his fair share of them. If Price starts against the Leafs then good for him, if he wins even better.

Why is everyone so worried about hurting people's feelings and effecting there play? Huet's goals against the Leafs were soft, simple as that.

In a sport that you need every point possible, you can't worry or wait for Huet to exercise his demons.

I'll be the first to say it, watch and see. Price will start to see more and more time and become the number 1 by the end of January.

Now I am also not dumb enough to think that the other 18 are just as responsible in losing to the Leafs as the goalies.

I agree, the best guy should play, and feelings are not spared in this sport.

However, if management and coaching feels like they want to ride Huet for the rest of the season (which I know you dont think is the case) then this might be a good time to get Huet to exercise his demons against the leafs.

I think Gainey would love to see Price become a clear number 1 by Jan/Feb. In fact thats what really makes sense for the team.Then we could trade Huet and avoid losing him for nothing. It's not that easy right now though, as Huet is winning games for us. Also Price is young, and although playing well, he hasnt had any adversity yet and the team is playing well in front of him. They may not be quite ready to throw him into that role yet. Who knows? Maybe he will show without a doubt he is ready over the next few months..

Don't forget Bob let Souray go for nothing though. I'm not convinced Bob wont keep Huet for the year and do the same with him.

[Wamsley01]

Also, would you get further into Huet's head? (I cant beat the leafs.. Price can beat the leafs..if I lose to the leafs again, they'll blame me and wish Price was in nets, etc.)

What if the last game of the year means something? What if we met them in the playoffs. Would we want to wait till then for Huet to exercise his demons?

Are these questions that are raised about somebody you feel is mentally strong? Demons?

Why demons? Granted he is 3-4-1 against Toronto as a habs, but I don't think 2 weak games against Toronto this year constitutes having demons. The last game of the year can not be put on him, he hadn't played in 2 months.

Guys who take 10 years to make it to the NHL are generally not mentally weak. If they were they would have quit at the age of 22. Huet fully understands the situation. He knows that Price is the goalie of the future. He also seems to have accepted a mentor type role. But he also has shown the capabililty to raise his game when pushed by Price.

I would tend to look at it as if Price plays well against the Leafs, Huet would SHOW US next time against the Leafs that he can outperform him. Not the other way around.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Wamsley01

[Habsfan]

I think Gainey would love to see Price become a clear number 1 by Jan/Feb. In fact thats what really makes sense for the team.Then we could trade Huet and avoid losing him for nothing.

Unless bob can sign Huet to a medium to long term deal before the end of the year, don't expect the Habs to get much in return for Huet. Huet will be a UFA as of July 1st 2008.

Just look at what bob had to pay to get Kovalev out of NYC, almost nothing. Where is Balej today??

[Wamsley01]

Unless bob can sign Huet to a medium to long term deal before the end of the year, don't expect the Habs to get much in return for Huet. Huet will be a UFA as of July 1st 2008.

Just look at what bob had to pay to get Kovalev out of NYC, almost nothing. Where is Balej today??

But look what the Oilers got for Smyth. The Habs got for Rivet. It all depends on the situation. If Price takes the reigns and somebody like Tampa Bay feels that Huet could be the difference they might roll the dice. It all depends on the desperation level of the GM. Waddell overpaid for Tkachuk/Zhitnik for the honour of getting destroyed in round 1, because he felt that is was a necessity to make the playoffs. He relied on short term thinking to save his job.

Another factor is the amount of prospects the Habs have to sweeten an offer. Maybe Huet becomes the extra piece that pushes a deal through. It does not have to be straight up. GM outlooks change as the season progresses. Some GMs have the full support of ownership to be patient. Some are working day to day like JFJ. That is why a patient GM like Gainey will remain in the driver's seat. He has the assets. He will not make a short term gain deal that destroys the sustained run he is trying to build. Rejean Houle he is not.

If you are only going to get a pick, and Huet has more value to the team this season than that pick. You keep Huet.

It was abundantly clear last season that Souray or not the Habs were going nowhere (1 and out if they made it). So it was a no-brainer to deal him. If keeping Souray meant a 2-3 round playoff run, then you roll the dice.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Wamsley01

[Habsfan]

But look what the Oilers got for Smyth. The Habs got for Rivet. It all depends on the situation. If Price takes the reigns and somebody like Tampa Bay feels that Huet could be the difference they might roll the dice.

Good point, however i don,t think Bob would be crazy enough to trade Huet to a team in the eastern conference!(against whom we might be battling for a playoff spot) If Huet is traded, he's going out west!

[CBHabs_fan]

Are these questions that are raised about somebody you feel is mentally strong? Demons?

Why demons? Granted he is 3-4-1 against Toronto, but I don't think 2 weak games against Toronto this year constitutes having demons. The last game of the year can not be put on him, he hadn't played in 2 months.

Just because I suggest a particular team has his number doesnt mean I think he's mentally weak. Again, if I did, he'd be the last guy I'd wanna see in nets tomorrow...we need to beat this joke of a team.

But even the strongest-minded can be phased when playing in Montreal. If Price is to win a couple in a row against the leafs now, it will be hard to put Huet back in nets against them....let alone if the game means something down the road. If Huet's the clear #1, do we sit him against the leafs only? It might be a difficult situation. The longer he goes without beating the leafs....the harder it gets IMO.

[Wamsley01]

Just because I suggest a particular team has his number doesnt mean I think he's mentally weak. Again, if I did, he'd be the last guy I'd wanna see in nets tomorrow...we need to beat this joke of a team.

But even the strongest-minded can be phased when playing in Montreal. If Price is to win a couple in a row against the leafs now, it will be hard to put Huet back in nets against them....let alone if the game means something down the road. If Huet's the clear #1, do we sit him against the leafs only? It might be a difficult situation. The longer he goes without beating the leafs....the harder it gets IMO.

The questions you posed are not questions somebody with a ton of confidence asks himself. But whatever.

I am comfortable either way. If Huet shits the bed again, then you will see Price in the next one.

But I think Price starts Tuesday

[CBHabs_fan]

It was abundantly clear last season that Souray or not the Habs were going nowhere (1 and out if they made it). So it was a no-brainer to deal him. If keeping Souray meant a 2-3 round playoff run, then you roll the dice.

Yup...and we kept him with little hope of a 2-3 round playoff run. We might have had a first rounder for him.

So who knows what we will do with Huet yet? Probably not even Bob.

[Wamsley01]

Yup...and we kept him with little hope of a 2-3 round playoff run. We might have had a first rounder for him.

So who knows what we will do with Huet yet? Probably not even Bob.

I argued vehemently to deal him last season. I don't really no why they did not. Maybe they thought they had Buffalo's number and they could get to the second round and who knows. But it was not the best decision going forward.

But shit happens. At least they did not resign him

[Habsfan]

At least they did not resign him

Now, THAT, would have been a monstrous mistake!

[Fanpuck33]

It was abundantly clear last season that Souray or not the Habs were going nowhere (1 and out if they made it). So it was a no-brainer to deal him. If keeping Souray meant a 2-3 round playoff run, then you roll the dice.

The Habs ended up one win from a playoff spot. Everyone here knows that anything can happen in the playoffs. Huet could have regained his form. Halak could have pulled a Cam Ward. Kovalev might have woken up. Any number of things could have happened that might have spurned a run to the Finals. I mean, just look at recent Cup Finalists to see how many low seeds have taken everyone by surprise and made it not only to the Finals, but to a Game 7.

That being said, I still would have preferred trading Souray.

[Wamsley01]

The Habs ended up one win from a playoff spot. Everyone here knows that anything can happen in the playoffs. Huet could have regained his form. Halak could have pulled a Cam Ward. Kovalev might have woken up. Any number of things could have happened that might have spurned a run to the Finals. I mean, just look at recent Cup Finalists to see how many low seeds have taken everyone by surprise and made it not only to the Finals, but to a Game 7.

That being said, I still would have preferred trading Souray.

That was a hope and a prayer. Anything is possible, but as a GM you have to play the probable.

[l<OV4L3V]

I'm not trying to imply that Huet should never get a start again for the Canadiens against the Leafs, however, starting Price would most likely be the best option. For example.. The leafs have the same dilemma right now...Toskala has won his last two against us....But Raycroft is coming off a shutout...Who are they most likely going to start? I remember a few weeks ago Huet came off a shutout, and they started Price the very next night....They didn't ride the right goaltender...Also, my mistake on 5 minutes for Ryder...I would give him a period and a couple of PP's to prove himself...If things aren't working out for him out there, then by all means change the lines up. The only reason I say put dandy back on the D is because I don't want either Gorges or Boullion in (and I highly doubt that O'Byrne is going to get the call from the A). So...with that being said...This thread wasn't about a goaltending controversy...I know for a fact Huet is our number one and has played Outstanding for us all season long, but some changes up front are necessary. Like I said before, you can't expect to win every single game by nursing a one goal lead. If we play 60 minutes of hockey, come out hard, forecheck hard, gain the lead...and keep coming at them...it will catch the Leafs by surprise. It seems like the last couple of games we have played against them, we almost played it like we hoped we'd just get a point out of the game. That's okay and all, but IMO, I'd like to see a hungry Habs team who smells blood in the water and ATTACKS from the beginning and keeps the foot on the accelerator.

GO :hlogo: GO