Are we lacking leadership from the players?

[REV-G]

I've been wondering lately if we are experiencing a "leadership void" on our team. If a team, business or any organization is going to be sucessful, one of the absolute necessities, is that there has to be a visible, accepted and active leadership present and functioning within that team or organization.

I believe, compared to the rest of the NHL, that we have excellent top level leadership in George Gillett, Pierre Boivin and Bob Gainey. I think we have better than average leadership in Guy Carbonneau and his coaching staff, but I have been wondering if we are seeing a lack of leadership from the players themselves.

I'm not just looking at this past week but overall, especially when things started going downhill, I have been wondering why there hasn't been more said or done, or more influence shown, by those considered leaders on the team. Clearly we don't know all that goes on behind closed doors in the dressing room or in the players only meetings, but if, and I admit it's a big if, we have another "Three Amigos" [Higgins, Price, S. Kostitsyns] and if, three players have been out running around with criminal type guys and doing lots of partying, if these rumors are true, and none of them have been doing very well lately, there needs to leadership from within the players who know the truth about what's going on or isn't.

In other words there needs to be a much stronger voice from the players to one another, to the media and the fans about what is acceptable and what isn't. While I think Messier's leadership was at times a bit overblown, I don't think he would have sat back and been as silent as some of our guys have been. I like and admire Koivu for many reasons, but to me, he has been too quiet and that may be why we've been hearing suggestions that someone else should be the captain. As a player, Gainey wasn't the most talented player on his team, but he was a strong leader among the players and wouldn't stand for players doing things that hurt the team and it's chances for success.

I know he wasn't trying to send any sort of message, but I think Mathieu Schneider's comment in the Gazette today is telling. He said, "There's no such thing as a saviour. I'm just hoping that I can bring a calming influence, a little leadership." To me that says that as a newcomer his take is that the players have been rattled and can use a little more leadership from within. So perhaps we are seeing a need for a change in leadership from within, someone who is going to take this team and lead it and put an end to any behavior that is going to hurt the team in the long run.

Edited February 23, 2009 by REV-G

[alexstream]

IMO Schneider filled a NA leadership

(we have russian, tchek, fin leaders and higgs and komo are not there yet, apparently)

[Fanpuck33]

When it takes the GM benching a key player (wearing an A) to wake a team up, I think it's pretty obvious the team leadership is severely lacking.

[Colin]

Really? This old bone again?

[saskhab]

We're lacking front line leadership. We need our top players to play good hockey... it's as simple as that. Koivu isn't one of our top players anymore if you're looking to pick on him. For example, it doesn't appear that Markov is the kind of "take the bull by the horns" personality we need. It's alright to have one guy like that, but we have a whole line of front line guys that have responded the same, and Kovalev was definitely part of that group. When our best players are our supplementary guys (Lapierre, Kostopolous) for extended periods of time, that's the problem.

Lang's performance was holding some semblence of on ice leadership. After he went down, things really fell apart quickly. Things weren't that good before, but man they went really bad after.

Hopefully Schneider, a refreshed Kovalev, and the return of Tanguay can provide a positive influence for our guys to follow. I think Schneider has already helped restore Markov's confidence with the puck.

[Chris]

Wasn't someone hired as "mentorship" type leader guy for the young players? I think Walter or something? Or maybe he was replaced by Paris Hilton.

Leadership has been lacking for many years, as pointed out the management is solid, they just need someone to step up or bring in a good leader next year.

[saskhab]

Wasn't someone hired as "mentorship" type leader guy for the young players? I think Walter or something? Or maybe he was replaced by Paris Hilton.

Leadership has been lacking for many years, as pointed out the management is solid, they just need someone to step up or bring in a good leader next year.

Walter was hired as a leadership consultant type or something last year. This year, he's a Vancouver assistant coach. I've seen some of his motivational promo vids... dude was crazy.

[Chris]

Maybe they need to hire another person to do that job and quickly.

[BCHabnut]

I believe that Lappiere may emerge as a leader over time. He is an on ice leader. I think Komisarek should be our next Captain, with Lapierre wearing the A.

[habs rule]

When it takes the GM benching a key player (wearing an A) to wake a team up, I think it's pretty obvious the team leadership is severely lacking.

well there was something about him being sick and depressed. And it worked

[KoZed]

Carbo himself alluded to that problem early last season.

As someone mentioned, leadership has to come from front line players. And by "front line", I dont think it means just top lines but players who have and can have an impact on the game. Carbo wasnt a 1st line C, bust as a shutdown C he was front line and he was a great captain. The whole McSorley illegal stick in 1993 originated from Carbo.

To me, leadership comes hand in hand with competitive spirit, with the hatred of losing. I think Koivu & Markov have somewhat been used to losing for too many years, Markov tends to go into a shell and Koivu just cruises when you'd expect him to get angry like he does in the playoffs (sometimes you get the feeling that regular season dont interest Saku anymore).

Kovy could be that leader. He has the charisma and the ability to take over a game. Problem is: he's unreliable and can disappear any given night.

Higgins looked like he could go there, but he regressed on almost all aspects in the past season and a half.

As someone mentioned, the two most likely candidate right now to be the leaders of this team are Komo and Laps. They're aggressive, competitive, they're in-your-face and they can impact the game with one shift.

BUT... true leadership is often proven in the playoffs.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

My view on Koivu is that he can't do it all by himself, and that his body wears down at various times over the season so he can't always 'lead by example' either, although I have no doubt he tries to.

(He may also be fundamentally demoralized. Maybe he`s at a point where he needs to see others picking up the torch, and he`s not seeing it. Maybe he`s beginning to doubt whether he will ever win - whether all those years of being let down by the organization have caught up to him.)

Anyway. What you really need is a critical mass of leaders. Great as Gainey was, he also had Serge Savard, Jacques Lemaire, Doug Jarvis, Yvon Cournoyer, Larry Robinson, and lots of other guys with formidable stature, on his teams. Brisebois probably has some mentorship role, but he's not exactly Gary Roberts. Hamrlik would be a candidate but apparently has been too busy hangin`with Tony Soprano. Lang helped, so will Schneider.

I suspect that what we have is:

-some young players (Higgins, Komisarek, Lapierre, maybe Gorges, maybe even Latendresse, maybe even Price) with the mental make-up of leaders, but who lack the experience and track-record of success to back up their dispositions. (Higgins's game is always erratic; Price is prone to catastrophic slumps; Komi is finding out this season how hard it is to be an elite player year after year; Laps still hasn't proven himself; etc.). In short, they`re too busy needing leadership themselves to really blossom as fully compelling leaders on the team.

- some young players (A. Kostitsyn, Plekanec) who seem content to float along in the wake of the veterans, or else defer to veterans, rather than take responsibility themselves.

-some veterans who are good players but simply not assertive leaders (Markov, maybe Hamrlik - Tanguay is still a mystery, and so is Laraque);

-one extremely prominent, intimidatingly talented veteran who can lead a team on the ice when Jupiter aligns with Neptune, and who can single-handedly drag a team down when it doesn`t (Kovalev);

-a too-small cluster of bona fide veteran leaders (Koivu, maybe Begin, maybe Brisebois, probably Schneider - but only the first and last are line-up regulars, which may be significant).

What i still want to see is guys like Komisarek and Higgins and Plekanec and Price really take hold on the team, really begin to carry themselves like veterans. But it`s too soon - an awkward moment in team development.

[HABBER-oooooKNOWS]

My view on Koivu is that he can't do it all by himself, and that his body wears down at various times over the season so he can't always 'lead by example' either, although I have no doubt he tries to.

(He may also be fundamentally demoralized. Maybe he`s at a point where he needs to see others picking up the torch, and he`s not seeing it. Maybe he`s beginning to doubt whether he will ever win - whether all those years of being let down by the organization have caught up to him.)

Anyway. What you really need is a critical mass of leaders. Great as Gainey was, he also had Serge Savard, Jacques Lemaire, Doug Jarvis, Yvon Cournoyer, Larry Robinson, and lots of other guys with formidable stature, on his teams. Brisebois probably has some mentorship role, but he's not exactly Gary Roberts. Hamrlik would be a candidate but apparently has been too busy hangin`with Tony Soprano. Lang helped, so will Schneider.

I suspect that what we have is:

-some young players (Higgins, Komisarek, Lapierre, maybe Gorges, maybe even Latendresse, maybe even Price) with the mental make-up of leaders, but who lack the experience and track-record of success to back up their dispositions. (Higgins's game is always erratic; Price is prone to catastrophic slumps; Komi is finding out this season how hard it is to be an elite player year after year; Laps still hasn't proven himself; etc.). In short, they`re too busy needing leadership themselves to really blossom as fully compelling leaders on the team.

- some young players (A. Kostitsyn, Plekanec) who seem content to float along in the wake of the veterans, or else defer to veterans, rather than take responsibility themselves.

-some veterans who are good players but simply not assertive leaders (Markov, maybe Hamrlik - Tanguay is still a mystery, and so is Laraque);

-one extremely prominent, intimidatingly talented veteran who can lead a team on the ice when Jupiter aligns with Neptune, and who can single-handedly drag a team down when it doesn`t (Kovalev);

-a too-small cluster of bona fide veteran leaders (Koivu, maybe Begin, maybe Brisebois, probably Schneider - but only the first and last are line-up regulars, which may be significant).

What i still want to see is guys like Komisarek and Higgins and Plekanec and Price really take hold on the team, really begin to carry themselves like veterans. But it`s too soon - an awkward moment in team development.

Well said dude. I often get annoyed at all the bi-polar blasting going on in these boards and Hfboards. It gets to be as tiring as Ek's trade rumors. Thread after thread about the same a$$ crap. When I saw the title of this thread I thought, man, I need to stop coming here, it never ends. The truth is I enjoy our discussions on Habsworld.

I like this team. I'm not questioning anything. I know they are good and can't wait to see them put it together. It may not be like the old years but that is impossible now with the salary cap, media, INTERNET, salary cap, oh I already said that.

It's about family. I think that is being slowly built in the Habs dressing room. It sucks that Montreal might discourage UFA players from coming here considering all our UFA's, well, so be it. Gainey will find a way to keep the real boys here and the riff raff out with endless Plan C's.

Koivu is a leader. To question it is absurd considering three former captains run this team and wouldn't even think about taking it away from him. That says more to me then anybody wishing to start a thread about it here. I agree with you that he needs support. Kovy is such an introvert we've come to find, but he can and should lead on the ice. Higgins could be our John Leclair in this years play-offs, someone should let him know he's got the goods. Remember....Leclair danced with potential his whole time on this team and never really made a mark until 93 and then blossomed as a Flyer. Laraque could be Gino Odjick, even if he sits on the bench all night, but the team plays better because he is there. Tanguay could be Damphouse, Big boob could be the Denis Savard, Komi can be Serge and the Hammer can be Lapointe while The Schnide can be well, The Schnide. It's all going in a good direction.....I'm positive about that. I think Gainey feels the same way and that's why he's not signing anyone. It's do or die for this bunch and I think they are all starting to realize how much that means RIGHT NOW. Desperato!!!!

All season long prior to our slump the press was saying how we haven't reached our potential yet, and now they are scratching their heads calling us over-rated. I still believe we have not shown our true colors. It's coming........unfortunately slower then we would like but this team can take out Boston and San Jose when they are on they're game. We are going to get hot just in time for the play-offs.....MARK MY WORDS!!!!!!!!! from there on in we'll be reading appreciation threads and I can't wait.

Lacking leadership?...........Not this club, we have a room full of leaders plus leaders in the making.

Let's see how the boys play against Philli but more importantly San Jose. This weekend we are going to watch this worm of a team turn into a butterfly...................or I'll be slitting my wrists.....LOL

My biggest Biggest BIGGEST! concern is goaltending. I think that is about to change too...............

Can you believe we've only enjoyed one shut-out this year? HURTIN!

[habs rule]

Well said dude. I often get annoyed at all the bi-polar blasting going on in these boards and Hfboards. It gets to be as tiring as Ek's trade rumors. Thread after thread about the same a$$ crap. When I saw the title of this thread I thought, man, I need to stop coming here, it never ends. The truth is I enjoy our discussions on Habsworld.

I like this team. I'm not questioning anything. I know they are good and can't wait to see them put it together. It may not be like the old years but that is impossible now with the salary cap, media, INTERNET, salary cap, oh I already said that.

It's about family. I think that is being slowly built in the Habs dressing room. It sucks that Montreal might discourage UFA players from coming here considering all our UFA's, well, so be it. Gainey will find a way to keep the real boys here and the riff raff out with endless Plan C's.

Koivu is a leader. To question it is absurd considering three former captains run this team and wouldn't even think about taking it away from him. That says more to me then anybody wishing to start a thread about it here. I agree with you that he needs support. Kovy is such an introvert we've come to find, but he can and should lead on the ice. Higgins could be our John Leclair in this years play-offs, someone should let him know he's got the goods. Remember....Leclair danced with potential his whole time on this team and never really made a mark until 93 and then blossomed as a Flyer. Laraque could be Gino Odjick, even if he sits on the bench all night, but the team plays better because he is there. Tanguay could be Damphouse, Big boob could be the Denis Savard, Komi can be Serge and the Hammer can be Lapointe while The Schnide can be well, The Schnide. It's all going in a good direction.....I'm positive about that. I think Gainey feels the same way and that's why he's not signing anyone. It's do or die for this bunch and I think they are all starting to realize how much that means RIGHT NOW. Desperato!!!!

All season long prior to our slump the press was saying how we haven't reached our potential yet, and now they are scratching their heads calling us over-rated. I still believe we have not shown our true colors. It's coming........unfortunately slower then we would like but this team can take out Boston and San Jose when they are on they're game. We are going to get hot just in time for the play-offs.....MARK MY WORDS!!!!!!!!! from there on in we'll be reading appreciation threads and I can't wait.

Lacking leadership?...........Not this club, we have a room full of leaders plus leaders in the making.

Let's see how the boys play against Philli but more importantly San Jose. This weekend we are going to watch this worm of a team turn into a butterfly...................or I'll be slitting my wrists.....LOL

My biggest Biggest BIGGEST! concern is goaltending. I think that is about to change too...............

Can you believe we've only enjoyed one shut-out this year? HURTIN!

yeah you are right i ve been saying it for ever

[Chris]

Well i enjoy the optimism, but i have actually watched this team play the last 6 weeks and it's not pretty. I don't see it turning around. They will need to go 2 and 1 this week or they could be on the outside looking in. Then BG has a huge decision to make, kepp the train wreck together or get some picks and prospects.

How is Kovalev a leader? He floats around 5 out of every 6 games, that's not leadership.

The golatending isn't that bad, it's the D zone and giving up 40-50 shots a night. No goaltender playing on this team would have great stats, they are hung out to dry alot. Obviously the goaltending could be better, but it's the least of there problems.

Koivu's problem is that the injuries, style of play have caught up with him and he looks slow and uninterested in doing anything. He gave everything he had but he is no longer a factor on the ice. Nothing against, i like him but i think it's the beginning of the end for him.

[Colin]

The golatending isn't that bad, it's the D zone and giving up 40-50 shots a night. No goaltender playing on this team would have great stats, they are hung out to dry alot. Obviously the goaltending could be better, but it's the least of there problems.

But that is:

A) The system which is failing, or

B) The players failing to buy into the system

Neither of which can really be accounted for by leadership. Look a little higher, though, and you can hit your mark.

[Chris]

IMO the D on the team just aren't that good at passing the puck, winning battles, playing physical, skating and clearing the crease. I just think many of them are over rated.

The system doesn't help much, they give up the blue line way too easy and stand around alot.

[saskhab]

IMO the D on the team just aren't that good at passing the puck, winning battles, playing physical, skating and clearing the crease. I just think many of them are over rated.

The system doesn't help much, they give up the blue line way too easy and stand around alot.

Giving up the blue line so easily is my biggest pet peeve with our team's defense. I watched San Jose/Dallas last night and just seeing how much those players (all 5 of them) move to play defense, how agressive they are on the puck carrier... I want that to happen with our guys more than anything else.