Trizzak Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 As per TSN http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=291601 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Makes the Leafs a little better but the Bruins a little worse. Should make life a little easier for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 I may be wrong on the compensation here, but wouldn't an offer sheet of 27 million over 5 years only have cost Toronto a 1st a 2nd and a 3rd rounder? Instead they trade a 2010 1st and 2nd rounder, and then a 2011 1st rounder. Could Burke not swallow his pride far enough to send Kessel an offer sheet and save his team the better asset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I don't care about details, Kessel is a good player. The leafs are getting better, should be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycing Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Boston could have matched the offersheet and maybe ended up moving someone else out, and Toronto wouldn't get him. That's my guess anyway, that the Boston GM was saying if Burke really wanted him, he'd have to pay up. I know things got messy between Kessel and Boston, but I'm not versed as to why... either way, I can't see how Boston would have wanted to toss away what Kessel brings to the table, especially at the age of 21, so overall I think they got fair return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I may be wrong on the compensation here, but wouldn't an offer sheet of 27 million over 5 years only have cost Toronto a 1st a 2nd and a 3rd rounder? Instead they trade a 2010 1st and 2nd rounder, and then a 2011 1st rounder. Could Burke not swallow his pride far enough to send Kessel an offer sheet and save his team the better asset? I agree. Two first rounders is a high price to pay on a rebuilding team. If the cap drops $4-5M next season, the Leafs will have $14M to spend on 13 players and with a mediocre minor league system.....ouch! Burke's ego is not allowing him to properly rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 Boston could have matched the offersheet and maybe ended up moving someone else out Unlikely. Boston would have had to have moved about 4 million in salary, and dealt with Kessel being injured till November. Boston matching any offer over 5 mill wasn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) I agree. Two first rounders is a high price to pay on a rebuilding team. If the cap drops $4-5M next season, the Leafs will have $14M to spend on 13 players and with a mediocre minor league system.....ouch! Burke's ego is not allowing him to properly rebuild. Well, the *direction* - dealing away picks - is obviously wrong, although it's Burke's modus operandi (only now is the Vancouver system beginning to recover from his scortched-earth policy). On the other hand, Kessel is only 21, and is probably about as good as you can hope any 1st-round pick to be; so you can rationalize the trade by seeing it as "really" only a 1st and 2nd-rounder (Kessel being conceived as the equivalent to the other 1st-round pick). That's still a hefty price, of course. But it's not like dealing away draft picks for an old man like Lang or an impending UFA like Tanguay As for the cap rising, well, some GMs may be worrying about it and planning for it, but most seem to be working from other assumptions and spending to the cap if necessary...including our man Bob. So presumably a cap collapse is not a given. On the other hand, Burke, unlike Gainey or even Mike Gillis in Vancouver, actually has the luxury of a few years' grace for rebuilding; that being so, throwing money around does seem pointlessly impatient. I think the trade is questionable - "really only" two high picks for Kessel - but not what I'd call an obvious blunder from Brian Jurke. Who knows, maybe Kessel will develop into a player you can really build around and who will anchor the Leafs' attack for (conceivably) 10-15 years. If so, then Jurke scored a big one. I don't see Kessel as that kind of player myself - he seems to be more of a human torpedo than a guy who runs the offence per se. I'd also be a bit leery of the fact that his stock steadily declined late in his junior and college careers, that Julien benched him in the 08 playoffs, that he's only had one decent season, that he's had health and injury issues (not his fault of course) and that as solid a developmental organization as Boston did not see Kessel as part of the future core. Having said that, I'd take him on ye Habs It will also be interesting to observe whether the same "experts" who pronounced Gainey crazy for signing proven PPG-player Cammalleri for $6 mil, or reliable top-6 winger Gionta for $5, will castigate Jurke for signing the far-less-proven Kessel to a $5.4 million deal. Something tells me they won't. Edited September 19, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch_Habs_Fan Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 (edited) Burke's ego is not allowing him to properly rebuild. Dealing for a Young and talentfull player is also rebuilding. You never know what you will get with those picks, and concidering the bad drafting of the leafs its rather a good choice i think! btw the contracts of Gionta and Cammalleri looks much better now Edited September 19, 2009 by Dutch_Habs_Fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I agree. Two first rounders is a high price to pay on a rebuilding team. If the cap drops $4-5M next season, the Leafs will have $14M to spend on 13 players and with a mediocre minor league system.....ouch! Burke's ego is not allowing him to properly rebuild. If the cap drops, Burke will put millionaires in the minors. It's a team that can afford to do that. He has that felixibility. Phil Kessel can score 350 goals over the next ten years. I'm a third generation leaf hater, this is a good move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 All I am wondering is what is good "food speed"? Is Burke saying he is usually first at a buffet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 bad trade for burkey. He gives up three potential 1st line players for a guy who had 1 good season playing with marc savard. Also it is said that he is a cancer in the room and can't get along with coaches etc. Not a guy I want to be a major building block on my team. we shall see but I think the broons skinned him on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I fear that the Leafs might do battle with us for a playoff spot now They have a no1 centre that might get Blake to get going again and Komi of course will allways be horrible against us. I hate Komi so much now... more than I ever hated Tucker. Kessel is a good player now at 21, just think what he might be in 2-3 years. Hopefully their goaltending will suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I fear that the Leafs might do battle with us for a playoff spot now They have a no1 centre that might get Blake to get going again and Komi of course will allways be horrible against us. I hate Komi so much now... more than I ever hated Tucker. Kessel is a good player now at 21, just think what he might be in 2-3 years. Hopefully their goaltending will suck. Don't worry so much. Kessel might turn out to be brilliant, but as we know better than anyone, lots can go wrong in the development of a young player. And think of it this way - if Kessel and Grabovski were the HABS' two main C, would you really feel like a dangerous team? I doubt it, and I'm still waiting for all the "experts" to crap all over the Leafs for being so tiny and unproven down the middle. Komi I like, but can the Leafs' D handle our speed? And really there isn't much depth in that system as far as I can tell. Habs fans live in fear of the Leafs. Frankly, I've got bigger fish to fry than that certifiably garbage franchise, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Interesting take on the Kessel Trade We can only hope he continues to do whatever put him on the express train out of Boston, and turns the leaf dressing room into a pit of infighting and controversy. That way, Phil Kessel will bugger up the leafs by his presence and the Bruins (who'll miss those 36 goals) by his absence. As a Habs fan, this trade could be the best of all worlds. So, keep it up, Phil. Whatever it is you do to turn friends into enemies, keep it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I may be wrong on the compensation here, but wouldn't an offer sheet of 27 million over 5 years only have cost Toronto a 1st a 2nd and a 3rd rounder? Instead they trade a 2010 1st and 2nd rounder, and then a 2011 1st rounder. Could Burke not swallow his pride far enough to send Kessel an offer sheet and save his team the better asset? Thats what I was thinking. After making a buffoon of himself with the Penner saga, he couldn't suck it up. The Leafs improved enough to possibly get out of the top 10, depends on how the goaltending holds up. So they could be picking 11th, 12th in whats supposed to be a fairly weak draft so they shouldn't be missing anything important by dealing those picks for this year. And then like someone else said, the 2011 first is replaced by Kessel. But the Bruins get more then they would've for RFA compensation because Kessel was out no matter what. Good trade for both teams IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Thats what I was thinking. After making a buffoon of himself with the Penner saga, he couldn't suck it up. The Leafs improved enough to possibly get out of the top 10, depends on how the goaltending holds up. So they could be picking 11th, 12th in whats supposed to be a fairly weak draft so they shouldn't be missing anything important by dealing those picks for this year. And then like someone else said, the 2011 first is replaced by Kessel. But the Bruins get more then they would've for RFA compensation because Kessel was out no matter what. Good trade for both teams IMO. I definitely agree that Burke couldnt really do an RFA offer sheet. Personally I think its an OK trade because Kessel is decent but Burke paid to much for him. Why didnt he offer Bos the RFA compensation? 2 1sts is crazy, if he gave any 2 picks away in 1 rnd they should have been 2 2nd rnd picks. Even still thats more than the RFA compensation. If Kessel desnt work out Burke will look really stupid for giving away so much when Kessel clearly could have been had for less. Kessel might be young but like said he did play with Savard and he has been frequently injured. Thats a huge potential problem IMO because when you are young you are supposed to be strong and healthy. If Kessel's body cant take the NHL at 21 what chance does he have reaching 30? Draft picks are gold in the new NHL. All traded away picks can be costly. Just look at the Habs. I've always said that 2 1sts for Tangs was too much, but luckily Bob fleeced SJ on the Rivet trade. Say what you want about late picks but Pacioretty was 22 in the 1st rnd so the Laffs picks given up in this trade could turn out fairly good, not to mention teams now need to save money with new young cheap talent. Bos will need that if they plan of keeping most of their team together, as will the Laffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I definitely agree that Burke couldnt really do an RFA offer sheet. Personally I think its an OK trade because Kessel is decent but Burke paid to much for him. Why didnt he offer Bos the RFA compensation? 2 1sts is crazy, if he gave any 2 picks away in 1 rnd they should have been 2 2nd rnd picks. Even still thats more than the RFA compensation. If Kessel desnt work out Burke will look really stupid for giving away so much when Kessel clearly could have been had for less. Kessel might be young but like said he did play with Savard and he has been frequently injured. Thats a huge potential problem IMO because when you are young you are supposed to be strong and healthy. If Kessel's body cant take the NHL at 21 what chance does he have reaching 30? Draft picks are gold in the new NHL. All traded away picks can be costly. Just look at the Habs. I've always said that 2 1sts for Tangs was too much, but luckily Bob fleeced SJ on the Rivet trade. Say what you want about late picks but Pacioretty was 22 in the 1st rnd so the Laffs picks given up in this trade could turn out fairly good, not to mention teams now need to save money with new young cheap talent. Bos will need that if they plan of keeping most of their team together, as will the Laffs. 2 1st rounders equal (for Boston) another Zach Hammil and Marc Stuart. Big freaking deal. The Tanguay deal was Tanguay and a 2008 5th rounder (Trunev) for a 2008 1st (Nemisz) and a 2009 2nd (don't know who). It wasn't two firsts. Trading for draft picks... remember that Family Guy episode where Peter is asked to choose between a boat and a mystery box? His reasoning: "I could get the boat, but I know I'm getting a boat. If I choose the mystery box, I could get anything! Like a boat!" The Leafs got Kessel and the Bruins got a mystery box, and the return package suggests it'll be a lot less than a boat in return. They signed Tim Thomas, a 35 year old goalie who has won one playoff round, for a guaranteed $20m over the next 4 years instead of Kessel. They signed Ryder to 3 years, $12m instead of Kessel. There were so many ways for them to have signed Kessel but they blew all their cap space and didn't make him a priority. If you ask me, Boston just lost their chance at a Cup. You don't win without reliable, top line scorers. That's something us Habs fans know all too well. The B's are down to one first line player: Savard. And he's a UFA this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 They signed Tim Thomas, a 35 year old goalie who has won one playoff round, for a guaranteed $20m over the next 4 years instead of Kessel. They signed Ryder to 3 years, $12m instead of Kessel. There were so many ways for them to have signed Kessel but they blew all their cap space and didn't make him a priority. You're assuming Kessel wanted to sign in Boston though. The story now is he'd been planning to not re-sign for a long time now because of issues he had with Julien. Like a quieter Dany Heatley saga. Those draft picks will be golden come deadline time, they don't necessarily have to use them. Boston did the best with what they were handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 You're assuming Kessel wanted to sign in Boston though. The story now is he'd been planning to not re-sign for a long time now because of issues he had with Julien. Like a quieter Dany Heatley saga. Those draft picks will be golden come deadline time, they don't necessarily have to use them. Boston did the best with what they were handed. Kessel has said he never asked to be traded. Chiarelli said it was during negotiations that things went sour... sometime in July. That doesn't sound like a Heatley saga to me. That sounds like "we're out of cap room and don't value you the way you think you should be." I don't think flipping a 5th overall pick who scored 38 goals and getting nothing but mid-tier draft picks in return is good value at all. From what I can tell of the deal, Toronto threatened the offer sheet but Boston said they'd match it, so that's why Burke had to give up two firsts and a second rather than go the offer sheet route and give up a first, second, and third. Kessel wanted the money that Toronto was offering, which Nashville didn't want to pay, and Toronto would just sign Kessel to the offer sheet once he was traded to Nashville and put them in a bind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Kessel has said he never asked to be traded. Chiarelli said it was during negotiations that things went sour... sometime in July. That doesn't sound like a Heatley saga to me. That sounds like "we're out of cap room and don't value you the way you think you should be." The story was that he was pissed about getting benched during the playoff series against the Habs in 2008 and had locker room problems from there on with Julien. Many people reported that was where he decided he was done with the Bruins after his contract was out. Thats basically the same reason as Heatley. Of course Boston didn't get the same value in return, you can't when the player says he doesn't want to play there anymore. Thats why I said they did they best with what they were handed. It could've been worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Of course Boston didn't get the same value in return,/i] you can't when the player says he doesn't want to play there anymore. Thats why I said they did they best with what they were handed.[ You're right, they got more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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