Leafs @ Habs GDT: April 10th, 2010

[KoZed]

You think so? The Habs forget how to play hockey every other game.

Playoffs are playoffs. I imagine Washington goes with in with Theo as #1. Say the 1st game they are overconfident (as high seeds often are) and we manage to win it and rattle Theo. 2nd game the Caps play better but Theo is still rattled. Doubt sets in, the young team feels pressure while the older team has a better grip on condfidence and calm. If an experienced team can push the young team out of it's comfort zone and place them in pressure situations, we get the edge. Playoffs is gut-check time more than any other time. Remember 2008 when we clinched the conference with a young team and Boston still pushed us to 7 games.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

How exciting. Backed in again. That's the way I like to win things - by backing into them rather than truly winning them because I'm the best.

Over the course of this season I've learned a lot from posters on here (as usual). One of the principal things I've come to realize is that Martin's days have passed him by. He's too rigid. I still believe he was the best hiring *at the time* and perhaps he was the element needed in the short-term to bring a little credibility to the Canadiens bench, but it's blatantly obvious that he's incapable of adaptation or of out-thinking opposition coaching. This team, on paper, can compete at a higher level with better adaptation - that's my belief.

While many have stated that he has no 'system,' I do whole heartedly disagree with this statement. He has a very fixed system, and under the right conditions, that system is potentially a winner. The problem is that his system is *so* fixed that if there's any deviation, it falls to pieces and he can't adapt it to the opposition he faces. More damning, though, is the fact that his system would seem to need players the Canadiens cannot ice. Rather than adapting to his personnel's strengths, he's trying to shove square pegs into round slots.

I think the most visible downfall of his strategy lies in the Canadiens defense. Puck possession relies on players able to maintain possession of the puck (duh), and other than Markov and, on occasion Hamr and Spacek (who is successful less and less by the game it seems) Montreal doesn't have real puck possession defenders. Martin's game is based on defense first, so preaching a puck possession game when the number one element in your strategy is incapable of participating is a clear indictment of his abilities as a modern, adaptable coach.

From all this, the major conclusion to which I have come is that this club will seemingly always be handcuffed to a degree.

Unfortunately, as other posters have eluded to and a couple have outright stated, the club is working from a severe disadvantage because of the francophone issue. I'm not interested in a debate on language issues, I only want to mention that because of this policy, the candidates for any position within the hierarchy are significantly limited. Any entity truly desiring success cannot limit itself to such a degree and honestly expect to compete year in and year out at the highest level. I'm not saying it can't happen, because of course there are highly qualified candidates out there. The stark reality is, though, that most of those men are employed elsewhere and it takes a degree of catching lightning in a bottle to place a rookie or unknown element in these high profile positions and expect immediate success. There's a lot of talk about Boucher on the farm; he seems great, but will his skills translate to the NHL? And if they don't?

In the end, I won't be watching any games this spring unless they get at least late into the second round. As much as I like a lot of the talent on the ice (Gomez, Cammi, Gionta, Markov, our goaltending), this team is entirely underwhelming and, frankly, disappointing on a night-to-night basis. This comes back to coaching, and from there ultimately to club direction, and I believe this to be a semi-permanent set of handcuffs.

Plus, and let's be honest here, we really don't deserve the playoffs after farting away the end of our season. It would have been better had we failed to make the show so that a more critical look would have been taken at Martin. Now he's practically assured the spot for next season. We had a great stretch then everyone decided they'd go into cruise control... again. Short of proving that we're more than this past couple of weeks would seem to indicate (IE a spot in the final four at least), I find I have better things to do with my life.

I'd say go Habs go, but really, I don't believe they deserve my support with this continual mediocrity. It's time, in my eyes, for the franchise to step up and act like they *really* want to win.

I understand Colin's position. But here's a different view:

http://habsloyalist.blogspot.com/2010/04/a...h-now-what.html

It also seems a bit much to quit on a team because of the 'franco-only' coaching philosophy. I agree that that is a dubious philosophy, but it might be the only realistic philosophy for the organization in this out-of-control media age. Plus, other coaches might bring other imperfections...abandoning Martin and brining in an anglo might be no magic bullet.

Indeed, there seems to be an air of entitlement to Colin's post - as in, 'I will only cheer for a guaranteed contender.' But this seems like an attitude befitting Lightning or Penguins fans. The struggles of Carolina, Philly, Boston and the Rangers all illustrate how damned hard it is to ice a consistent contender in this league. It's not simply a matter of the organization wanting it enough. (And frankly, that we made the playoffs does represent an achievement given the obstacles we faced this season. Most teams lose when they radically remake their lineup and then have 10 players miss more than 10 games with injuries and are near the top of the league in terms of salary lost to injury in a season. For that matter, if I'd told you before the season that we'd lose Markov for half the year and yet make the playoffs, you'd likely have clicked your heels).

[Wamsley01]

I understand Colin's position. But here's a different view:

http://habsloyalist.blogspot.com/2010/04/a...h-now-what.html

It also seems a bit much to quit on a team because of the 'franco-only' coaching philosophy. I agree that that is a dubious philosophy, but it might be the only realistic philosophy for the organization in this out-of-control media age. Plus, other coaches might bring other imperfections...abandoning Martin and brining in an anglo might be no magic bullet.

Indeed, there seems to be an air of entitlement to Colin's post - as in, 'I will only cheer for a guaranteed contender.' But this seems like an attitude befitting Lightning or Penguins fans. The struggles of Carolina, Philly, Boston and the Rangers all illustrate how damned hard it is to ice a consistent contender in this league. It's not simply a matter of the organization wanting it enough. (And frankly, that we made the playoffs does represent an achievement given the obstacles we faced this season. Most teams lose when they radically remake their lineup and then have 10 players miss more than 10 games with injuries and are near the top of the league in terms of salary lost to injury in a season. For that matter, if I'd told you before the season that we'd lose Markov for half the year and yet make the playoffs, you'd likely have clicked your heels).

The Canadiens since the lockout are a less than a .400 team without Markov and a .600+ one with him.

Their PP, PK, goals for and against are all inferior with him out. IF the Leafs had pulled off what the Habs just did there would

be zero talk of backing in. It would be

"Brian Burke has built a team in his image, they are truculent and refuse to give in when the going is tough. With this type

of mental toughness the Maple Leafs will be a very scary first round opponent"

instead we get

"The Canadiens got in by their fingernails, one has to wonder if they can present any challenge in the playoffs after

collapsing down the stretch"

Also for Colin, they didn't take the backdoor, they earned a point. That point put them in the front door.

Backdoor would be if they lost and the Rangers had to win to get them in today.

[bar]

Of the bottom 3 teams, most 'experts' say Montreal is the harder out. Montreals record vs. the Sabres and caps this season would give either team pause, so this a time to be happy. Why do people want to bring everyone down, I don't understand the negativity, WE ARE IN THE PLAYOFFS...regular season anything means very little now.

[JacksonJ]

I would probably take NJ over Wsh in the first round, simply because Halak hasn't played the caps this year. With his struggles this last week I don't think Ovy and the Caps will really help him. But then again we do have our ace in the whole Carey Price similar to Cam Ward a few years ago. We are one of the few teams in the East this year who have a (more than) capable backup goalie.

[Colin]

I understand Colin's position. But here's a different view:

http://habsloyalist.blogspot.com/2010/04/a...h-now-what.html

I'd like to point out that most other teams suffered major injuries this season as well. One may only wonder, for instance, how a team like Carolina would have done had they been more healthy to start the year.

It also seems a bit much to quit on a team because of the 'franco-only' coaching philosophy. I agree that that is a dubious philosophy, but it might be the only realistic philosophy for the organization in this out-of-control media age. Plus, other coaches might bring other imperfections...abandoning Martin and brining in an anglo might be no magic bullet.

If I was quitting the team because of 'franco vs anglo' stuff, I would have done that years ago. The politics that surround this team make 95% of the fan-base downright painful and seriously affects the overall performance of the club. I'm not watching because we backed in and I don't feel they truly earned it based on the most important stretch of the season - the final weeks. When a team has its back to the wall, you hope it brings out the best in everyone. Well, as usual these days: (Almost) Epic Fail.

Indeed, there seems to be an air of entitlement to Colin's post - as in, 'I will only cheer for a guaranteed contender.' But this seems like an attitude befitting Lightning or Penguins fans.

No. I will cheer for a team that WANTS it. Not a team that backs in and fumbles their way to ecstasy (with sincere apologies to Sarah McLachlan). Show me evidence that this team truly deserved it when they were basically healthy in the final weeks yet played some of their worst hockey of the season and I'm on board. I can't find that evidence. What was it, one win in their last eight including one of the weakest schedules of all the playoff contending teams?

[bar]

I am a fan of Montreal...whether they deserve it or not, I will be there when they miss the playoffs, finish last overall AND when they win the cup, my loyalty to the team does not come with conditions, it's really an unhealthy relationship, but then again the word fan comes from fanatic...I guess that's what I am

[Wamsley01]

I'd like to point out that most other teams suffered major injuries this season as well. One

No. I will cheer for a team that WANTS it. Not a team that backs in and fumbles their way to ecstasy (with sincere apologies to Sarah McLachlan). Show me evidence that this team truly deserved it when they were basically healthy in the final weeks yet played some of their worst hockey of the season and I'm on board. I can't find that evidence. What was it, one win in their last eight including one of the weakest schedules of all the playoff contending teams?

They had back to back shutouts ONE WEEK AGO.

They went 2-1-2 over their last 5 games. Which is actually a .600 winning percentage.

Over their last 20? 10-6-4, that is also a .600 winning percentage.

They dominated that game last night. They needed to win the game and they brought their A game, unfortunately

Halak struggled last night and robbed them of going in on a high. Gomez, Markov, Gionta, Bergeron, Cammalleri, Gorges, Pouliot

were awesome.

Do I think they will win a series? Unlikely, but if they did I wouldn't be shocked.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Wamsley01

[Quebecois]

I'd like to point out that most other teams suffered major injuries this season as well. One may only wonder, for instance, how a team like Carolina would have done had they been more healthy to start the year.

If I was quitting the team because of 'franco vs anglo' stuff, I would have done that years ago. The politics that surround this team make 95% of the fan-base downright painful and seriously affects the overall performance of the club. I'm not watching because we backed in and I don't feel they truly earned it based on the most important stretch of the season - the final weeks. When a team has its back to the wall, you hope it brings out the best in everyone. Well, as usual these days: (Almost) Epic Fail.

No. I will cheer for a team that WANTS it. Not a team that backs in and fumbles their way to ecstasy (with sincere apologies to Sarah McLachlan). Show me evidence that this team truly deserved it when they were basically healthy in the final weeks yet played some of their worst hockey of the season and I'm on board. I can't find that evidence. What was it, one win in their last eight including one of the weakest schedules of all the playoff contending teams?

I agree with a lot of what you've written but I've never understood the "we don't deserve to be in the playoffs" argument.

Does a team like Toronto, that played well over the last two months, deserve to make it ahead of us? There is a reason that games in October matter as much as games in March and April. We deserve to be in the playoffs because we finished in the top 8 in the Eastern Conference. Period.

[BTH]

I'm not watching because we backed in and I don't feel they truly earned it based on the most important stretch of the season - the final weeks. When a team has its back to the wall, you hope it brings out the best in everyone. Well, as usual these days: (Almost) Epic Fail.

...

Show me evidence that this team truly deserved it when they were basically healthy in the final weeks yet played some of their worst hockey of the season and I'm on board. I can't find that evidence. What was it, one win in their last eight including one of the weakest schedules of all the playoff contending teams?

Being one of the top 8 teams in your conference means you deserve to be in the playoffs. It doesn't make you a great team - but you knew this wasn't a great team all season long, what does the end of the regular season have to do with it?

You can't judge the team based only on the past three games. We made it in despite a slow finish because we played well enough over the other 80 games to warrant a spot. We had the easiest schedule at the end of the season because we had the toughest schedule in the previous 75 games. The regular season is an 82 game race. After 82 grueling games, we qualify.

Which team that missed the playoffs deserves it over us? Atlanta? Calgary? The loser of NYR/Philly?

Besides, you complain yourself that hockey in Montreal is about politics instead of entertainment but then you refuse to watch a game (i.e. enjoy yourself) because of principles. The Habs don't lose anything from you not watching them play. But if you watch them play, you might have fun.

[Colin]

Besides, you complain yourself that hockey in Montreal is about politics instead of entertainment but then you refuse to watch a game (i.e. enjoy yourself) because of principles. The Habs don't lose anything from you not watching them play. But if you watch them play, you might have fun.

But the point is that it's not fun watching inconsistent and irritating performances night in and night out for a decade. Who knows who will show up on a given night. I'm tired of watching mediocre play and teams that don't seem to care. I watched every single game for over a decade, but I can't do it anymore. It's not worth it. Ever since Roy was traded and the franchise sunk into the Mickey Mouse Era it's been one year of mediocrity after another. Sure, a couple of years back we finished first overall, but if you looked at it game by game, you'd have seen a lot of luck wins and a couple of bounces that went our way. We weren't any better than the 8th place team, but the Forum Gods looked down and pitied us.

Sorry, I know this doesn't make me a good fan, because apparently good fans put up with it all day in and day out, but that's the way it is. There was a time I'd refuse tickets to see the Sens because I wasn't interested. Now, if someone offered me tickets, I'd go and enjoy.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

But the point is that it's not fun watching inconsistent and irritating performances night in and night out for a decade. Who knows who will show up on a given night. I'm tired of watching mediocre play and teams that don't seem to care. I watched every single game for over a decade, but I can't do it anymore. It's not worth it. Ever since Roy was traded and the franchise sunk into the Mickey Mouse Era it's been one year of mediocrity after another. Sure, a couple of years back we finished first overall, but if you looked at it game by game, you'd have seen a lot of luck wins and a couple of bounces that went our way. We weren't any better than the 8th place team, but the Forum Gods looked down and pitied us.

Sorry, I know this doesn't make me a good fan, because apparently good fans put up with it all day in and day out, but that's the way it is. There was a time I'd refuse tickets to see the Sens because I wasn't interested. Now, if someone offered me tickets, I'd go and enjoy.

Yeah, because the Sens are such a top-notch organization

The error is in thinking that poor on-ice results are automatically to be explained by 'not caring.' This team had a bunch of players in personal slumps down the stretch. Now, maybe Cammy, Pleks, Gomez, Hammer, Spacek, Halak, and Gionta all just suddenly decided to stop caring (Halak must have 'not cared' last night, which is why he sucked ass, right?). Or, maybe slumps just do happen, how about that? Then there's the fact that our forwards are small; perhaps they were suffering from burnout.

I think you're letting the hangover from last year's betrayal affect how you're responding to this team, which, for the most part, has been a plucky and resilient bunch.

In the bigger picture of this season, outside of A. Kostitsyn and maybe Lapierre (who seems finally to be getting over his surliness at Martin), I can't see evidence that the players don't care. And in the bigger picture of the past decade, I see little evidence of an organization that doesn't care. Middling? Yes. Indifferent to winning? No.

[Colin]

Yeah, because the Sens are such a top-notch organization

Not a matter of being top-notch, more a matter of them being here and being somewhat interesting. I don't think there can be much denying the fact that Ottawa has been better overall in the last few years than the Canadiens. *shrug*

The error is in thinking that poor on-ice results are automatically to be explained by 'not caring.' This team had a bunch of players in personal slumps down the stretch. Now, maybe Cammy, Pleks, Gomez, Hammer, Spacek, Halak, and Gionta all just suddenly decided to stop caring (Halak must have 'not cared' last night, which is why he sucked ass, right?). Or, maybe slumps just do happen, how about that? Then there's the fact that our forwards are small; perhaps they were suffering from burnout.

I think you're letting the hangover from last year's betrayal affect how you're responding to this team, which, for the most part, has been a plucky and resilient bunch.

In the bigger picture of this season, outside of A. Kostitsyn and maybe Lapierre (who seems finally to be getting over his surliness at Martin), I can't see evidence that the players don't care. And in the bigger picture of the past decade, I see little evidence of an organization that doesn't care. Middling? Yes. Indifferent to winning? No.

Meh, too many coasters and not enough consistent players, IMO. And as for Spacek, I beg to differ, most dramatically differ. He's had a mostly awful season. His 'slump' has essentially been season-long.

As for me letting last season's 'betrayal' get to me.... to be brutally honest, I don't watch consistently anymore. I'll watch a few, get sick of it, and not watch for a while. I've watched the winning streaks and the losing streaks and really, most of the time it's pretty easy to tell when a player is going through the motions and when he's putting his ass on the line.

Perhaps the game has passed *me* by. I'm not captivated by multi-millionnaires whining and not playing 100% every shift. I don't like what the game has become; even after the lockout, this 'hockey' is nothing like it was in the 80's when hockey was exciting every shift. Mostly, though, I'm cynical and jaded because I can't stand the politics. No matter how much I try, I can't get on board with another team, so that leaves me with the Habs, and a more political fanbase is rarely found.

I've said repeatedly in the past that I don't care about losing, what I care about is effort. If we lose a fantastic, exciting game 1-0 where the opposition goalie has been stupendous and our effort fantastic, I'm a happy camper. The Canadiens offer boring hockey punctuated with spoiled brat millionnaires. Not that other teams don't have exactly the same, but there are a standout few who transcend the plight of the sport today: Ovechkin, Crosby, and some others. Brodeur. No matter what the score or where he is, you can tell he's competing with everything he's got. I may not have names handy, but I prefer watching the pluggers who work their asses off over the Kostitsyn pricks who don't deserve the game. Moore, for instance.

I look forward to seeing Subban, actually. Based on what I saw this season, he's a kid who can finally add some panache to the beige Canadiens.

EDIT: As an addendum, in general I really like Gionta, Markov, Cammi, and Gomez. Plex to a lesser degree. All guys who bring it most of the time. In fact, I suspect Gomez would have had close to a PPG season had not had to come to a new franchise and learn everything and everyone from scratch. Problem is that's 4 players out of 20 on the ice. Halak is generally pretty good, Price has all the talent to be a franchise goalie, but no head for it yet. And the rest? Transients. You'd think a guy like Pouliot with all that talent would be fun, but really, after his honeymoon, he just went back to being quasi-useless.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Colin

[Wamsley01]

THe days of glory are over and if you continue to hold this team to that standard, then you probably would be better

served someplace else.

No team lives in that rarified air forever.

[Colin]

THe days of glory are over and if you continue to hold this team to that standard, then you probably would be better

served someplace else.

No team lives in that rarified air forever.

What a stupid comment. Hold them to what standard? A standard of effort every shift? Yes, what a lofty standard. How can I possibly expect a spoiled millionnaire to work!

[bar]

No one player, no team goes balls to the wall 100% of the time.

[Colin]

No one player, no team goes balls to the wall 100% of the time.

Very true. But occasionally it'd be nice if a player went balls-to-the-wall more than 30% of the time.

[Trizzak]

Very true. But occasionally it'd be nice if a player went balls-to-the-wall more than 30% of the time.

damn, beat me to it

[Wamsley01]

In a 30 team league, what teams work balls to the wall every night?

I think what the Habs have accomplished this season is very understated. The Canadiens without Markov

since 2006 have been a terrible team, this season they avoided being buried without him.

They lost two of their harder workers for 20+ games and managed to stay afloat.

The expectation is never met unless a Cup is paraded down St. Catherines.

I would love to get everybody's point projection in October if you had been told that Markov would miss 40 games,

Gionta 20+ and Cammalleri 20+ and that Halak would be the started in April.

It certainly wouldn't have been a playoff team.

When the Habs have a big year in 2008 it is deemed as luck. It is circular and nonsensical.

THAT is why I said get out of the past. There have been very few teams in the last 10 years to bring consistency year in and year out.

Detroit and Jersey are the only two that spring to mind. Everybody else ebbs and flows. So your argument is that they are not elite.

If they worked hard and lost all the time, you would likely bemoan that fact that they have shit players and shift your disdain

to whose fault that was. This team worked hard enough to get into the playoffs missing a huge part of their roster.

If they get smoked in the playoffs, so be it. They surpassed my expectations considering the circumstance.

[Colin]

If they worked hard and lost all the time, you would likely bemoan that fact that they have shit players and shift your disdain

to whose fault that was.

Well, at least I don't have to think for myself anymore. I dunno if you've ready my posts for the last... er.. many years, but I've always been behind players that work hard and have been one of the most positive followers of the team even when they've sucked.

[bar]

In this day and age you're not ALLOWED to use injuries as an excuse, which they clearly are. Carolina is a playoff team, you take away their two best players they're not. The habs had the greatest influx of new players in the history of the NHL, and then lose Markov to the freakiest of injuries, I'm just happy they have playoff games this season, in recent years low seeds have gone far, which is why I'm surprised at the naysayers...I dare them to have a little faith, why ruin the good feelings of everyone by constantly being negative.

[fromage]

i got so drunk last night after the game.

was fantastic!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

In a 30 team league, what teams work balls to the wall every night?

I think what the Habs have accomplished this season is very understated. The Canadiens without Markov

since 2006 have been a terrible team, this season they avoided being buried without him.

They lost two of their harder workers for 20+ games and managed to stay afloat.

The expectation is never met unless a Cup is paraded down St. Catherines.

I would love to get everybody's point projection in October if you had been told that Markov would miss 40 games,

Gionta 20+ and Cammalleri 20+ and that Halak would be the started in April.

It certainly wouldn't have been a playoff team.

When the Habs have a big year in 2008 it is deemed as luck. It is circular and nonsensical.

THAT is why I said get out of the past. There have been very few teams in the last 10 years to bring consistency year in and year out.

Detroit and Jersey are the only two that spring to mind. Everybody else ebbs and flows. So your argument is that they are not elite.

If they worked hard and lost all the time, you would likely bemoan that fact that they have shit players and shift your disdain

to whose fault that was. This team worked hard enough to get into the playoffs missing a huge part of their roster.

If they get smoked in the playoffs, so be it. They surpassed my expectations considering the circumstance.

Classic 'Wamsley' post. I agree with it.

Colin's argument (as he restated clearly in response to this) concerns work ethic. In that sense you may be talking past each other, but I still don't see it. Who, exactly, doesn't care/work hard on this team? Hammer? Spacek? Those are two dyed-in-the-wool hockey warriors with the long careers to prove it. The former pulled down ridiculous minutes with Markov out and the latter has been on his wrong side all season. They've been OK at best, but that doesn't mean they don't care. Pouliot doesn't care? How about: he lost his confidence? The jury is out on him, then. Who else, then? Gomez? Metropolit? Moore? Moen? Darche? Gorges? O'Bryne? These guys don't care or work hard? Really? (OK, I can see getting on Gomer's case at times, but that's more a function of his style than his 'compete level,' I think).

As far as I can see, the accusation of apathy/laziness really only applies to the Kostityns and - this season - Lapierre. And Martin (who Colin attacks) has ruthlessly purged or marginalized players who don't care (Latendresse, Laraque, Sergei).

Meanwhile, Colin apparently feels that Spezza and Kovalev are real workhorses who bring it night after night

The real complaint is as Wamsley puts it. The team is not a bona-fide contender. Frustration with that is fair, but going on about character, desire, and work ethic seems misplaced.

Edited April 12, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Toronthab]

In a 30 team league, what teams work balls to the wall every night?

I think what the Habs have accomplished this season is very understated. The Canadiens without Markov

since 2006 have been a terrible team, this season they avoided being buried without him.

They lost two of their harder workers for 20+ games and managed to stay afloat.

The expectation is never met unless a Cup is paraded down St. Catherines.

I would love to get everybody's point projection in October if you had been told that Markov would miss 40 games,

Gionta 20+ and Cammalleri 20+ and that Halak would be the started in April.

It certainly wouldn't have been a playoff team.

When the Habs have a big year in 2008 it is deemed as luck. It is circular and nonsensical.

THAT is why I said get out of the past. There have been very few teams in the last 10 years to bring consistency year in and year out.

Detroit and Jersey are the only two that spring to mind. Everybody else ebbs and flows. So your argument is that they are not elite.

If they worked hard and lost all the time, you would likely bemoan that fact that they have shit players and shift your disdain

to whose fault that was. This team worked hard enough to get into the playoffs missing a huge part of their roster.

If they get smoked in the playoffs, so be it. They surpassed my expectations considering the circumstance.

I think I'm with you on this one. The fact that they were able to get focused so well after the Olympics, and their significant improvement in goals against while missing a top player and PP specialist.. whose work we just saw.. says lots of good things about us. Even the games we lost late in the third, were games we were winning until late in the third.

And an 82 game season is insane. Period. Just insane. Even the fans don't give a damn half the time, and they're not on the ice.

On balance , we did pretty darned well, and now lets see if the playoffs can bring a new level of involvement to the guys. We no longer have a group of Quebecois eagerly showing the world why God is a Habs fan, like all reasonable persons, but we've since what isn't there , isn't there, we might as well cheer for what is there; our team. There are no absolute achievements within a time-space continuum, but we can still hope to have some fun.

I think Uncle Bob did a darned good job putting this team together following the year we geared to go for it and got wrecked by injuries. THAT was a hell of a team, but it tied our hands as it had to for the following season.

How the heck did Bob ever get Camallerri?

[Colin]

Meanwhile, Colin apparently feels that Spezza and Kovalev are real workhorses who bring it night after night

The real complaint is as Wamsley puts it. The team is not a bona-fide contender. Frustration with that is fair, but going on about character, desire, and work ethic seems misplaced.

? I think Ottawa is interesting to watch. Never said they worked hard.

I'm glad you feel my concerns are misplaced. I hope you are right and I am wrong. *shrug*