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P.K. Subban


Wamsley01
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http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Subban+...4659/story.html

Is it just me or has this guy missed the point? If the Habs were benching him for his personality, wouldn't

it have come after the Philly game and not after a game in which he was 99% responsible for two late goals?

Listening to Martin, he makes reference to "learning to be a professional", that with the on ice mistakes lead

me to believe this is a bunch of things that lead to a life lesson for P.K.

Edited by Wamsley01
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Considering Cam Cole took all of a one sentence quote from a primary source (Subban) about the situation, and took the rest from a commentary on it (Pang), I think we can effectively throw out what a Vancouver beat writer knows about the benching of a Montreal rookie. It's really about his frustration towards a completely different topic, using this current story as a potential example of the furthering of his point.

Subban's quote isn't necessarily about personality or professionalism, either. It can just as easily be about performance.

You know that when the local CBC radio reporter I follow on Twitter is re-tweeting that story, that this Subban benching has reached ridiculous proportions. It's not even about anything anymore in the media's point of view. The story is the story now. The reasoning behind the benching is irrelevant.

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I didn't agree with all the points made by the reporter, but I can see how he'd view it this way. Subbans personality and his play seem to go hand in hand, if you change one you change the other.

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I like PK. I think a lot of people like his flair. He's an exciting guy. I would think that Martin is professional enough to know that someones persona does not win games. From what I have heard, there may have been a few flubs with veterans and the kid needed to "chill out." The bottom line is, their is some young depth on the Habs squad. Picard looks like a solid 6 or 7 defense, and Weber is playing well. I like the competition, and now is the ideal time to sit PK for a few games. See what Weber can do, and let PK know that he needs to perform at his very best defensively, because there is a great deefenseman nipping at his heels. The team is leading the division. With 11 games in 22, and a couple back to back, I'm sure PK will draw back in.

If he conforms, I will hate it. I don't like disrespect, but I am also a "loud mouth." I always have been very extroverted, any where I go I talk to every single person I see. Some people are just wired that way. I remember when I was young, I was called on it, and I tried to change. I got bloody depressed. I could barely function. You can change behaviours to a point, but if you try to change a person, it affects more than behaviour. It can affect your psyche. So much of sports is mental. I would really hate to see that brash confidence reigned in too much.

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Considering Cam Cole took all of a one sentence quote from a primary source (Subban) about the situation, and took the rest from a commentary on it (Pang), I think we can effectively throw out what a Vancouver beat writer knows about the benching of a Montreal rookie. It's really about his frustration towards a completely different topic, using this current story as a potential example of the furthering of his point.

Subban's quote isn't necessarily about personality or professionalism, either. It can just as easily be about performance.

You know that when the local CBC radio reporter I follow on Twitter is re-tweeting that story, that this Subban benching has reached ridiculous proportions. It's not even about anything anymore in the media's point of view. The story is the story now. The reasoning behind the benching is irrelevant.

I agree that a Vancouver writer who has done zero legwork has wasted my time with his article,

but this should probably be filed under BTH's "media and accountability" thread.

And I thought the reaction on this board to his benching was over the top, the media's reaction is absurd.

I don't see why Subban can't be defensively responsible and maintain his flair and personality.

Edited by Wamsley01
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If he conforms, I will hate it. I don't like disrespect, but I am also a "loud mouth." I always have been very extroverted, any where I go I talk to every single person I see. Some people are just wired that way. I remember when I was young, I was called on it, and I tried to change. I got bloody depressed. I could barely function. You can change behaviours to a point, but if you try to change a person, it affects more than behaviour. It can affect your psyche. So much of sports is mental. I would really hate to see that brash confidence reigned in too much.

I think that is what I like about him, being a loud mouth a-hole myself. (don't expect too many of you to disagree with that discription of me,lol) Been punched in the mouth more than once, usually deserved it, but still punched back!

I don't believe he was benched for an attitude that has been with him since before he was drafted. That attitude has brought him this far and will hopefully stay with him for life.

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I agree that a Vancouver writer who has done zero legwork has wasted my time with his article,

but this should probably be filed under BTH's "media and accountability" thread.

And I thought the reaction on this board to his benching was over the top, the media's reaction is absurd.

I don't see why Subban can't be defensively responsible and maintain his flair and personality.

Like I said. I highly doubt it has much to do with the way he behaves. I think Martin is smarter than that. I sure hope he is. If a player makes your team better, you play him. The team's record allowed Martin to give Weber a shot and see how he looks. If you are going to bench him and sway him to be more resposible, now is the perfect time.

I'm not sure who you were directing your second paragraph to, but I don't think that many reactions on this board were that "over the top". As a few others on the board have said, they come on here to discuss the team, the players and sometimes just to gossip and throw out theories. I won't completely discount other people's opinions. Some of the points and questions about the benching provoke thought, whether I agree with them or not.

I think with the way rookie devlopement has gone in the last few years, people are worrried. I tend to relax a bit now, compared to previous years. Really, of all the rookies that left and we thought were wasted, what has anyone done? I would say the only player that is playing well is Grabovski, and I don't care that he is gone or what we got. Higgins, SK, Grabovski, Latendresse, Dagostini are all players that fans have said we failed to develope. The problem is that they aren't all that great where they are now. The Lats arguement can be made, but Benny has fit in well here, and his upside is equal in my opinion.

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I agree that a Vancouver writer who has done zero legwork has wasted my time with his article,

but this should probably be filed under BTH's "media and accountability" thread.

And I thought the reaction on this board to his benching was over the top, the media's reaction is absurd.

I don't see why Subban can't be defensively responsible and maintain his flair and personality.

The Subban "issue" is just the pretext for the wider point the author wants to make, which is that the NHL has a culture of stifling charismatic and vocal players. Thus, Crosby is the archetypical 'ideal type:' a diligent Canadian boy who works hard, wins, speaks politely off the ice and generates zero controversy. The point is a valid one even if the link to Subban is dubious.

I remember when Crosby scored that bizarre stick-in-the-air goal in junior and Cherry declared that if he kept it up someone was going to "break his arm." That mainfests Canada's pathological Tall Poppy syndrome. In the case of hockey, the syndrome takes the following weird form: we expect you to excel; but we also expect you to be humble and diffident about your excellence. And if you're not, we will punish you.

I doubt that the Habs are benching PK because he's flamboyant. I don't think they're that stupid. But Mike Richards's threat on PK perfectly exemplified this bizarre NHl culture. Cole should have written that piece a couple of weeks ago and he'd have been spot on.

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Like I said. I highly doubt it has much to do with the way he behaves. I think Martin is smarter than that. I sure hope he is. If a player makes your team better, you play him. The team's record allowed Martin to give Weber a shot and see how he looks. If you are going to bench him and sway him to be more resposible, now is the perfect time.

I'm not sure who you were directing your second paragraph to, but I don't think that many reactions on this board were that "over the top". As a few others on the board have said, they come on here to discuss the team, the players and sometimes just to gossip and throw out theories. I won't completely discount other people's opinions. Some of the points and questions about the benching provoke thought, whether I agree with them or not.

I think with the way rookie devlopement has gone in the last few years, people are worrried. I tend to relax a bit now, compared to previous years. Really, of all the rookies that left and we thought were wasted, what has anyone done? I would say the only player that is playing well is Grabovski, and I don't care that he is gone or what we got. Higgins, SK, Grabovski, Latendresse, Dagostini are all players that fans have said we failed to develope. The problem is that they aren't all that great where they are now. The Lats arguement can be made, but Benny has fit in well here, and his upside is equal in my opinion.

A 3 game benching of a rookie is a non story. It has nothing to do with race or attitude, it has to do with a coach

mentoring a player in what it takes to reach his potential. Simple as that.

Everybody has an opinion, this is a messageboard, so you will receive informed opinions, uninformed opinions, biased

opinions, insightful opinions. prejudiced opinion etc. Offering an opinion with zero information is everybody's option, but

unless it is prefaced with a "my guess, maybe, what if" then it is misleading and carries zero weight. Like it or not.

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Haha. OK, I'll play your game for a bit. In the same note that you said people have uninformed opinions without a preface of "my guess" or "maybe", carrying zero weight, you chose to inform us that it has nothing to do with race or attitude. My guess is that you are right and I can pretty much guarantee that it has nothing to do with race. Can you guarantee it has nothing to do with atitude? Otherwise it carries zero weight to me. jk

.

Edited by BCHabnut
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Haha. OK, I'll play your game for a bit. In the same note that you said people have uninformed opinions without a preface of "my guess" or "maybe", carrying zero weight, you chose to inform us that it has nothing to do with race or attitude. My guess is that you are right and I can pretty much guarantee that it has nothing to do with race. Can you guarantee it has nothing to do with atitude? Otherwise it carries zero weight to me.

The fact that he got benched after two horrendous mistakes that cost them a victory also lends credence to the theory.

Jacques Martin has made plenty of statements that said it was about on ice play, working within a team concept and learning to be a professional.

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Webe...l#ixzz17k0QarXB

"(And) it's important to keep in perspective that it's a privilege to play at this level and there are lots of responsibilities attached to it," he added, addressing Subban's growth into the NHL.

"There's nothing wrong when you're not in the lineup. Last year was a very important year in Carey's development. There was a process established that really helped him grow and made him a better player.

"With our younger players, whether a Weber or Subban or Lars Eller, they'll be better for it in the long run."

Of Subban, Martin was read-between-the-lines candid: "It's important (he) well understands the expectations, the values and all that's attached to the word 'professional.' It's part of developing."

There is much, much more to putting the Canadiens on the ice than penciling a lineup and opening the gate. Young, impressionable players will try to find their place alongside the whiskered veterans; some will mesh easily, others might struggle for seasons.

That is not my uninformed opinion, it is Jacques Martin's. If you still believe it is a poor attitude and not a reflection of learning and growth,

be my guest.

Edited by Wamsley01
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The fact that he got benched after two horrendous mistakes that cost them a victory also lends credence to the theory.

Jacques Martin has made plenty of statements that said it was about on ice play, working within a team concept and learning to be a professional.

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Webe...l#ixzz17k0QarXB

That is not my uninformed opinion, it is Jacques Martin's. If you still believe it is a poor attitude and not a reflection of learning and growth,

be my guest.

Actually, I never once said that I believed that. If you read my first two posts on this thread I said that it was the perfect timing to bench him and that I hope Martin wasnt dumb enough to bench a player based on persona. I was merely discussing some of the things that have come up in other threads. I re read them, and I can see that I need to work on my writing a bit. I just think, type, and post. hahaha. Not very eloquent and I can see where it looks like I am all bitter.

For the record, I totally agree with you on this one. The kid had been slipping both offensively and defensively in his last 6 or 7 games. He cost them a game and Martin saw a great opportunity to play Weber. Weber played very well, so he kept the momentum going. Simple as that.

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"It's important (he) well understands the expectations, the values and all that's attached to the word 'professional.' It's part of developing."

This is the quote that makes me think Martin might be disappointed with Subban's attitude.

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Doesn't quite fall in with the conformity discussion but I'm not starting another Subban thread. Subban has said he is now lacking confidence, no real surprise considering how he struggled the last two games. The fact that Martin singled out Weber for praise suggests to me that if Spacek is available for the next game on Wednesday, I think Subban may sit again. And you thought it got too much play in the media the first time...if he sits again, back in Montreal no less, this could be ugly.

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Doesn't quite fall in with the conformity discussion but I'm not starting another Subban thread. Subban has said he is now lacking confidence, no real surprise considering how he struggled the last two games. The fact that Martin singled out Weber for praise suggests to me that if Spacek is available for the next game on Wednesday, I think Subban may sit again. And you thought it got too much play in the media the first time...if he sits again, back in Montreal no less, this could be ugly.

Ah geez. I wish he'd lacked the confidence to speak so honestly with the media. This is one of those things you keep to yourself.

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Doesn't quite fall in with the conformity discussion but I'm not starting another Subban thread. Subban has said he is now lacking confidence, no real surprise considering how he struggled the last two games. The fact that Martin singled out Weber for praise suggests to me that if Spacek is available for the next game on Wednesday, I think Subban may sit again. And you thought it got too much play in the media the first time...if he sits again, back in Montreal no less, this could be ugly.

JM has a good track record in player development. He should get the benefit of the doubt - but won't, of course. As for Subban lacking confidence, everyone will fixate on how being sat out destroyed him, but the fact is his game was slipping before the benching and what we're seeing is a logical progression of that.

Indeed, none of this should be viewed as surprising. PK is at about the 1/3 mark into his first NHL season. This would be about the point at which other teams have adjusted to his game, his own rookie enthusiasm is starting to peter out before the relentless grind of a full NHL season and can no longer carry him, and weaknesses in his game are beginning to crowd out the strengths. It's a normal rookie pattern, really. The real issue is that most of us believed PK would be immune from these patterns. Turns out he's a mortal human after all.

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  • 2 weeks later...

For the 3rd time this season, Subban and Plekanec nearly come to blows in practice. Considering it sounded as if Subban started the other two (based on media reports), this can't be good.

http://twitter.com/LucGelinas/status/19445053751562240

Edit: 1 account now saying Subban/Lapierre were getting into it. Subban is still the common link either way though.

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For the 3rd time this season, Subban and Plekanec nearly come to blows in practice. Considering it sounded as if Subban started the other two (based on media reports), this can't be good.

http://twitter.com/LucGelinas/status/19445053751562240

Edit: 1 account now saying Subban/Lapierre were getting into it. Subban is still the common link either way though.

I'm not too surprised. With PK being benched and overall the team playing poorly, these sorts of things happen. I'm sure a lot will be made of this though. *sigh*

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What if Laps was dogging it at practice and Subban said "after the game last night maybe you shoudn't be so happy?", then they got into it. I'm just making this up, but it could have easily gone down like that.

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For the 3rd time this season, Subban and Plekanec nearly come to blows in practice. Considering it sounded as if Subban started the other two (based on media reports), this can't be good.

http://twitter.com/LucGelinas/status/19445053751562240

Edit: 1 account now saying Subban/Lapierre were getting into it. Subban is still the common link either way though.

Not good. I'm starting to have doubts about Subban's character. I like everything he says in his interviews. After the Mike Richards comment he said that if anybody took a run at him he would chip the puck over to his partner and they'd move the puck out of the zone. Perfect answer. But I somehow have my doubts that that's how Subban would actually react. That isn't how he's responded to any of the other occasions that people took minor runs at him. Plekanec has always had the ideal attitude, I don't feel good about somebody that is repeatedly clashing with him.

I wish he could be paired with Hamrlik, Gill or Gorges, he's sure to fail on a pairing with Picard.

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What if Laps was dogging it at practice and Subban said "after the game last night maybe you shoudn't be so happy?", then they got into it. I'm just making this up, but it could have easily gone down like that.

If that were the case, great. However, there are a lot more people saying it was him and Plekanec, not Lapierre. 3rd time this has happened in give or take 6 weeks, it's hard to find a way to swing that favourably for Subban. Fortunately, this one didn't escalate like the others. One person from CKAC said Subban also got into it with Darche, Pouliot, and Lapierre, though all on a lesser scale.

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Not good. I'm starting to have doubts about Subban's character. I like everything he says in his interviews. After the Mike Richards comment he said that if anybody took a run at him he would chip the puck over to his partner and they'd move the puck out of the zone. Perfect answer. But I somehow have my doubts that that's how Subban would actually react. That isn't how he's responded to any of the other occasions that people took minor runs at him. Plekanec has always had the ideal attitude, I don't feel good about somebody that is repeatedly clashing with him.

I wish he could be paired with Hamrlik, Gill or Gorges, he's sure to fail on a pairing with Picard.

Did you question Pleks character when he said he played like a little girl? I did...I figured he was done as an NHLer, I believe in PK more than most of the current habs, to me, he is what is missing from this team. For all we know Plek could have been in the wrong in all of the encounters. I do not subscribe to the old way of be seen but not heard when it comes to rookies.

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Did you question Pleks character when he said he played like a little girl? I did...I figured he was done as an NHLer, I believe in PK more than most of the current habs, to me, he is what is missing from this team. For all we know Plek could have been in the wrong in all of the encounters. I do not subscribe to the old way of be seen but not heard when it comes to rookies.

No. He's been one of my favourite players for years and I think that remark shows a level of security and self-honesty. I don't know why it would be taken as a sign that he was done in the NHL.

Maybe Pleks was in the wrong all 3 times but I trust Plekanec's attitude and professionalism over PK's. In 5 years of NHL hockey, Plekanec has had one of the best work ethics I've ever seen on this team. In 40 games of NHL hockey, a substantial amount of evidence has already piled up to suggest that there may be problems with PK's attitude.

Subban is also one of my favourite players, I like his cockiness and don't care about his trash talking. I just don't think he's been handling his situation very well. Since Richards called him out his play has suffered, more people have started to call out his attitude, the head coach alluded to the fact that Subban needs to be more professional and he's getting into fights with his teammates in practice.

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He's a young guy that has always been larger than life. You can see it in the way he handles himself. I imagine he is pretty frustrated right now, and it may be affecting him personaly. I actually think the press should not even be at practice.

As for Plek, he just doesn't strike me as a guy that stirs the pot. Who knows though. Nobody knows who he is or what happened. This is not the way I invisioned PK's rookie season playing out. lol

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