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What a disgrace of a team.


jmaac1
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I am just stating the obvious..Sure, our center position is needing of a player like a Grigorenko, but our defense is BAAAAADDDD...

Its like needing a running back in the NFL, but lacking the less "flashy" player of an elite offensive line man to clear holes for the running back...

In terms of elite shut down defensive prospects coming through the system, we have Tinordi and that is it...Beaulieu is more of a QB type of D and those other players that The Commendant listed are more organizational depth players..

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I'd say Emelin is developing into being quite good. Subban can already shut down guys while also being an offensive threat and Gorges is of course a defensive stalwart. Once Tinordi is up, that gives Montreal four guys who know how to either shut down, block shots or bang and mash somebody.

The defence looks extra terrible when you have Subban playing outside his experience, Kaberle half caring, Weber being inept and Campoli being a ninth defenceman. If this team had Markov to push the Weber/Campoli/Diaz trio to a seventh role, this team wouldn't look anywhere near as bad as you might think.

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I am just stating the obvious..Sure, our center position is needing of a player like a Grigorenko, but our defense is BAAAAADDDD...

Its like needing a running back in the NFL, but lacking the less "flashy" player of an elite offensive line man to clear holes for the running back...

In terms of elite shut down defensive prospects coming through the system, we have Tinordi and that is it...Beaulieu is more of a QB type of D and those other players that The Commendant listed are more organizational depth players..

Give Beaulieu time, the kid will be more than just a PPQB. One needs only to look at both Subban now, and Markov prior to his injury to see that just because you have a D that puts up points it doesn't necessarily lead to the assumption that he can't play in his own end as well.

in Gorges you've already got a premjer shot blocker, defensive d, penalty killer who is signed for 6 more years.

In Subban you've got a 22 year old who is already playing against top pairs.

In Emelin you've got a rookie D who is developing but is definitely showing signs he'll eventually be a top 4 defenseman. Now I'm personally not putting him in that spot next year due to the sophomore jinx but he'll get there eventually.

In Tinordi you've got a future defensive D.

In Beaulieu you've got a two-way guy

And yes the other 12 might never make the league, but chances are they are so young and there are so many that there also might be one or two there who will become top 4 D as they continue to grow ala Gorges who was just organizational depth when we got him.

Dont look at the D today, project what we're developping

A D drafted today will take 3-5 years to have an impact. In 3-5 years

Tinordi - Subban

Beaulieu - Emelin

Rookie one of 12 - Gorges

Press box: Rookie one of 12 - Diaz

And this is totally ignoring our GM (whoever that is) grabbing a ufa D or two. Its overkill to draft another D when there is only one young sure fire top line forward in our system. After Paccioretty there are no other guys we can point to and say "He'll be part of a number 1 line in three to five years."

The defense might suck now but the pieces to improve are here longterm. Do we need a UFA stop gap til they are ready? sure we do, but we don't need an 18 year old d prospect in the same way as we're absolutely desperate for a Premier forward, especially a center.

If this was a house, the D needs is like a wall that needs a little patchwork to buy us time to develop the young kids. The forward group is like the main support beam of the roof that is rotting and sagging and needs a replacement, but the secondary supports are all in place. However without that main piece its always gonna sag and look like crrap and its been sagging for 20 years.

We need our franchise piece at forward, the guy who will make everyone around him look better.

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Commandant, we blow leads like there is no tomorrow...Talk all you want about PK, Gorges, and Emelin being shut down, but if we had a Pronger/Weber type of guy in here we don't blow all those leads...IMO, if we had another blue chipper to pair with PK down the road, we have a much brighter future than drafting a center..We need to insulate Price..We had Gill, but he was getting way too old and was one dimensional...Now that he is gone, guys like Matt Kassian have career days against us..If Gill was still here, we win that game last night 4-1, maybe in 4-0..All of the MINN goals were within 3 feet of Carey..We are undersized and soft on the back end..

Tinordi is a solid prospect coming through the pipe and I love what I see from the kid, but having a Pronger/Weber type would be such the better thing to do with, I hope, a premium pick..

Like I have said earlier, I would love the premium at the top of the draft in terms of forward potential, but D is our biggest hole..

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Commandant, we blow leads like there is no tomorrow...Talk all you want about PK, Gorges, and Emelin being shut down, but if we had a Pronger/Weber type of guy in here we don't blow all those leads...IMO, if we had another blue chipper to pair with PK down the road, we have a much brighter future than drafting a center..We need to insulate Price..We had Gill, but he was getting way too old and was one dimensional...Now that he is gone, guys like Matt Kassian have career days against us..If Gill was still here, we win that game last night 4-1, maybe in 4-0..All of the MINN goals were within 3 feet of Carey..We are undersized and soft on the back end..

Tinordi is a solid prospect coming through the pipe and I love what I see from the kid, but having a Pronger/Weber type would be such the better thing to do with, I hope, a premium pick..

Like I have said earlier, I would love the premium at the top of the draft in terms of forward potential, but D is our biggest hole..

The thing that you keep missing is that a drafted D will take time to reach the NHL.  Yes our D blows right now,  I agree.

But that's not what you judge our organizational needs by.  You don't judge what we need to draft based on what the big club is doing because there is a 3-5 year gap between a D drafted today and when he'll actually have an impact on the ice.  When you look at all our recent picks and prospects and we have 3 maybe 4 if you include Diaz dmen who will be on the Habs for a while and who are growing, you realize that even if the results aren't there today, the longterm future is in good hands on D with Gorges, Subban, Emelin, Tinordi, Beaulieu and Diaz.

You keep coming back to that the D sucks this year.  I agree with that.  But the longterm help on defence is in place, we just need a veteran signing or two to bridge the gap until its ready.  Another 18 year old won't help for at least 3-5 years.

A forward on the other hand, there is no elite going forward and if you draft an elite guy, he could be only 2-3 years away from having an impact.

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I agree with the assessment of needing an Elite forward in the system, but we are a team building from the net out..We really haven't got that Elite guy on the back end yet, either, IMO..Beaulieu and Tinordi are great prospects, but they are more of a 3-4 type, not a premium #1 guy...

Ryan Murray and Griffin Reinhart are what this team needs going forward, in the system..Both have the potential to be a bona fide #1 d-man..Murray has the positional skills that rival a Neidermayer/Markov and Reinhart have the skill set of a Weber or a Pronger...We have a number of picks in the 1st 2 rounds in the next 2 drafts..We can make do with what we have down the middle, as is, for now..DD, Plex, Eller are still young and already NHL prductive...Center is a need, but not as glaring as defense..Besides, Murray is NHL right now..

Edited by Blonde Demon
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We have a bonafide future number 1 d, his name is PK Subban and he's 22 years old, averages close to 25 minutes a game, and is getting better all the time. The kid is a stud #1. Beaulieu and Tinordi are very good 2/3s. Gorges and Emelin are 3s/4s going forward.

As for Reinhart and Murray, I think you are massivelu overating both kids. Reinhart is falling like a rock in the eyes of most scouting services into the 10-15 range or even lower. Reinhart just doesn't have the hockey sense to be what you are comparing him to. Murray you've compared to Scott Niedermayer, hey I like Murray but he's no hall of famer.

As for Murray being NHL ready there is a difference between being ready and having an impact. As an 18 year old he'll be on the third pair in limited minutes for at least 2 years, he's not coming in and making an impact for 3-5 years.

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So, you are saying Yakupov and Grigorenko will be impact in the role we need them to be? You can say the same for both of those youngsters, as well, but, IMO, our glaring need IN THE SYSTEM is a #1 d-man..PK is great, but I don't think he is a true #1 ceiling like Murray has..

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Forwards typically have an impact faster than D.  Typically 2-3 years as opposed to the 3-5 for a D.

As for system need, PK is far far closer to an true number 1 D than anyone on our roster or in the system is to being a top notch centre.  Heck we've been looking for the center for 20 years. PK is doing so much already at 22 that the sky is the limit for this kid. I could see him as a future top 5 NHL dman, I can't say the same any of our forwards. Just look at Markov, PK at 22 is far further along than Markov was at the same age and before getting hurt Markov was an elite NHL d.

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We have a bonafide future number 1 d, his name is PK Subban and he's 22 years old, averages close to 25 minutes a game, and is getting better all the time. The kid is a stud #1. Beaulieu and Tinordi are very good 2/3s. Gorges and Emelin are 3s/4s going forward.

As for Reinhart and Murray, I think you are massivelu overating both kids. Reinhart is falling like a rock in the eyes of most scouting services into the 10-15 range or even lower. Reinhart just doesn't have the hockey sense to be what you are comparing him to. Murray you've compared to Scott Niedermayer, hey I like Murray but he's no hall of famer.

As for Murray being NHL ready there is a difference between being ready and having an impact. As an 18 year old he'll be on the third pair in limited minutes for at least 2 years, he's not coming in and making an impact for 3-5 years.

Murray is likely similar to Cam Fowler, who was NHL ready and had a super rookie year. But is worst on Ducks this year with a -20; but i would bet both Fowler and Subban will benefit from a bit shakey 2nd year, even though PK is still the #1 d-man and most vital skater on team as a kid and will only get better.

I would toss out the names of Ellis/Pateryn and Nash as possible 3rd to 6th d-men for Habs down the road.

So drafting another d-man, other than Dumba, or maybe a Trouba/Reilly if have a 2nd first round pick, just wouldnt make sense. But am hoping OIlers/Islanders/etc are eyeing up the top d-man available.

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The two guys I'm really looking at are Ellis and Dietz.

Ellis was talked about as having josh gorges like potential when he was taken in the 4th round and his defence continues to improve. However since being drafted his offence has exploded. And since moving from a crappy team in Cape Breton to a good team in Shawinigan its gotten even better. He's turning into a very well rounded D.

Dietz was our 5th rounder in 2011. He was the youngest player drafted in the entire draft and if he was born just a week or two later would be a 2012 drraft pick instead of 2011. Based on the year he's had, those couple weeks are the difference between a 2011 5th rounder and a 2012 2nd rounder. He's been great this year both offensively and defensively and plays 30 minutes a night against the other teams best players and top PK minutes. He's outplayed 2011 11th overall pick and teammate Duncan Siemans. He's being talked about as a darkhorse candidate for a WJC spot for Canada next year.

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The two guys I'm really looking at are Ellis and Dietz.

Ellis was talked about as having josh gorges like potential when he was taken in the 4th round and his defence continues to improve. However since being drafted his offence has exploded. And since moving from a crappy team in Cape Breton to a good team in Shawinigan its gotten even better. He's turning into a very well rounded D.

Dietz was our 5th rounder in 2011. He was the youngest player drafted in the entire draft and if he was born just a week or two later would be a 2012 drraft pick instead of 2011. Based on the year he's had, those couple weeks are the difference between a 2011 5th rounder and a 2012 2nd rounder. He's been great this year both offensively and defensively and plays 30 minutes a night against the other teams best players and top PK minutes. He's outplayed 2011 11th overall pick and teammate Duncan Siemans. He's being talked about as a darkhorse candidate for a WJC spot for Canada next year.

That would be incredible.

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The two guys I'm really looking at are Ellis and Dietz.

Ellis was talked about as having josh gorges like potential when he was taken in the 4th round and his defence continues to improve. However since being drafted his offence has exploded. And since moving from a crappy team in Cape Breton to a good team in Shawinigan its gotten even better. He's turning into a very well rounded D.

Dietz was our 5th rounder in 2011. He was the youngest player drafted in the entire draft and if he was born just a week or two later would be a 2012 drraft pick instead of 2011. Based on the year he's had, those couple weeks are the difference between a 2011 5th rounder and a 2012 2nd rounder. He's been great this year both offensively and defensively and plays 30 minutes a night against the other teams best players and top PK minutes. He's outplayed 2011 11th overall pick and teammate Duncan Siemans. He's being talked about as a darkhorse candidate for a WJC spot for Canada next year.

In that game last friday, Dietz played around 30minutes due to other injuries and looked good all-round. But the other 30 minutes was played by Dalton Thrower, who is ranked 25-35th this year and had a similar fiesty game and if gonna draft 1 d-man this year, he would fit the bill.

If want a scappy forward, Lukas Sutter also with Saskatoon, is a typical Sutter (likely not the offense of his cousin Brandon, but more rugged) and also ranked 25-35th i think and he or his clone Colton Sissons could provide some grit up the middle in a couple years and could be a super 2nd round pick.

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Dalton Thrower sounds like a pro wrestling name. Or a bad action movie name.

And the announcers of top prospects game predicted he might be the one to drop the gloves, and he did vs a much bigger Tom Wilson. And both he and Dietz can both can and do chuck em if need be.

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Thrower isnt a bad 2nd rounder if you go for a D.

We have 4 picks in the top 65. Of those a minimum of 2 maybe 3 need to be FWD.

We could also use a goalie at some point though that doesn't have to be high unless we get a shot at Subban.

I dont want more than 1 D out of those 4 picks though.

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Thrower isnt a bad 2nd rounder if you go for a D.

We have 4 picks in the top 65. Of those a minimum of 2 maybe 3 need to be D.

We could also use a goalie at some point.

I dont want more than 1 D out of those 4 picks though.

I just dont know how Timmons/Gauthier pick em, was it just a coincidence that several 4th rounders were d-men? And they just simply keep crossing off a list as they get taken and take the top one available at the time?

Becasue a guy 145th and a guy 144 or 146 are of exact same calibre.

If was me i would take 3 forwards and maybe 1 d of top 4, but goalies are a dime a dozen it seems these days, so why waste a pick?

If the Habs do finish 29th, their 2nd pick is almost a 1st rounder and 4th pick is almost a 2nd rounder.

I know just semantics, but am really looking forward to a nice haul this June, similar to 2007, but with the top pick being even better than McDough.

And will be nice to help forget this year ,or at least get some positives from it, and Canucks winning the cup finally will be nice also.

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The team has really gone BPA for the most part in the draft and thats usually a good philosophy. But I think you need to adjust a little on draft day. Like if you have a ton of D and you've got a D rated just a little better than the fwd take the fwd, but if its a huge difference go D

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I'd say Emelin is developing into being quite good. Subban can already shut down guys while also being an offensive threat and Gorges is of course a defensive stalwart. Once Tinordi is up, that gives Montreal four guys who know how to either shut down, block shots or bang and mash somebody.

The defence looks extra terrible when you have Subban playing outside his experience, Kaberle half caring, Weber being inept and Campoli being a ninth defenceman. If this team had Markov to push the Weber/Campoli/Diaz trio to a seventh role, this team wouldn't look anywhere near as bad as you might think.

We need to be more patient with Emelin. Great physical player that we've sorely lacked since Komi. One of my faves,BUT,he makes a ton of rookie mistakes,as much or more than O'Byrne ever made. It also hasn't helped that he's been paired with garbage like Camp,Kab,Diaz and Weber. definitely a top 4 candidate in another year or two

I just dont know how Timmons/Gauthier pick em, was it just a coincidence that several 4th rounders were d-men? And they just simply keep crossing off a list as they get taken and take the top one available at the time?

Becasue a guy 145th and a guy 144 or 146 are of exact same calibre.

If was me i would take 3 forwards and maybe 1 d of top 4, but goalies are a dime a dozen it seems these days, so why waste a pick?

If the Habs do finish 29th, their 2nd pick is almost a 1st rounder and 4th pick is almost a 2nd rounder.

I know just semantics, but am really looking forward to a nice haul this June, similar to 2007, but with the top pick being even better than McDough.

And will be nice to help forget this year ,or at least get some positives from it, and Canucks winning the cup finally will be nice also.

Timmins needs to go as much as PG and BG. Other than LL,we don't have one NHL player in the last 4 drafts. And does he ever draft a big/tough/gritty forward.

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Timmins needs to go as much as PG and BG. Other than LL,we don't have one NHL player in the last 4 drafts. And does he ever draft a big/tough/gritty forward.

Since Timmins was hired the Habs have drafted more players that have played at least 100 NHL games in the league than any other team.

In the last four drafts those picks are 21 years old and younger still, of course they arent in the NHL yet. Its not like we've had chances to take Tavares, Hall or the other guys in the league who are that age.

As for the forwards Timmins has drafted not being big or gritty

- Max Pacioretty, Ryan White, Guillaime Latendresse, Andrew Conboy, Greg Stewart, Max Lapierre,

plus guys like Kyle Chipchura, and Jimmy Bonneau one who got hurt and the other was a late rounder who never developed

-----------------------------

As for Emelin making more mistakes than O'Byrne? lololololol Do you even understand hockey at all.

Emelin is a better D as a rookie than O'Byrne is right now in Colorado.

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Timmins needs to go as much as PG and BG. Other than LL,we don't have one NHL player in the last 4 drafts. And does he ever draft a big/tough/gritty forward.

In his defence, it's not as if he had a ton of high picks to work with. No 1st in 2008, no 2nd in 2009, 2010, or 2011. If the bulk of the NHL'ers come from the top-2 rounds, only having half the picks (3 1sts + 1 2nd) over that span seriously limits the odds. Back out the fact that most teams don't have NHL'ers from the past 2 drafts and now we're looking at procuring 1 NHL'er with 2 picks, a 2009 1st and a 2008 2nd (Leblanc and Kristo, the latter hasn't turned pro yet so he still could become one). Meanwhile in the prospect thread, all we're talking about is how most of the current prospects are by far outperforming their draft ranking so he's doing something right. Beaulieu and Tinordi, the most recent 1st rounders, are both progressing very well even if they're not in the NHL as teenagers. He makes mistakes like everyone else does but I'll take Montreal's overall track record with Timmins at the helm over most teams.

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As for Emelin making more mistakes than O'Byrne? lololololol Do you even understand hockey at all.

Emelin is a better D as a rookie than O'Byrne is right now in Colorado.

Correct.

I have watched some Avs games this year and he is terrible.

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