Willey101 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 There was quite a bit of banter yesterday about Subban going to the Islanders. Obviously there was no legs to the "rumour" but I did see a few people talking about the possibility. So in a hypothetical I said if Snow were to offer the 4th overall pick plus Kyle Okposo then I would likely make that move. In my mind if we can trade a budding superstar D-man for a young power forward and a pick where we could draft another budding NHL d-man then it's hard to outright say no. This of course did not sit well. thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I say no, Subban is already the best D on our team and the 4th overall pick is a gamble (and won't be ready for top flight minutes as a rookie). How do we replace Subban's 25 minutes per game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I get all the love for Subban, but honestly, the Islanders don't make this deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 If Bergevin wants to put his stamp on team, anything is possible, but i would make it cost an All-Star top 6 forward plus stuff at least before ever offering Subban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 It's been said before and it will continue to be said. Subban is untouchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 It's been said before and it will continue to be said. Subban is untouchable. Subban is the MVP of skaters, but Price is only one i cant see trading. What if Columbus offers up Nash for Subban as a main deal (with all the normal extra picks/players/prospects tossed in), would you not consider it? As valuable as Subban is, Nash would instantly upgrade team's weakest aspect, offense. Dont think you hear Plekanec complaining; 2 birds with 1 stone; a All-Star power forward on LW and not have to fight Subban in practice anymore. But,have no fear, i highly doubt Bergevin has trading Subban at top of to do list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 No way I'd move Subban for Nash. Subban is the MVP of skaters, but Price is only one i cant see trading. What if Columbus offers up Nash for Subban as a main deal (with all the normal extra picks/players/prospects tossed in), would you not consider it? As valuable as Subban is, Nash would instantly upgrade team's weakest aspect, offense. Dont think you hear Plekanec complaining; 2 birds with 1 stone; a All-Star power forward on LW and not have to fight Subban in practice anymore. But,have no fear, i highly doubt Bergevin has trading Subban at top of to do list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 We have had serious issues with having a lack of puck movers. Hence why we have to do makeshift trades when Markov is hurt. Do you really want to go into next season with Markov and Kaberle as your puck movers? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 We have had serious issues with having a lack of puck movers. Hence why we have to do makeshift trades when Markov is hurt. Do you really want to go into next season with Markov and Kaberle as your puck movers? Really? Markov is one of the best all around D in the league. We have him for many years still. It's not like if trading Subban would kill our D. Other than Markov, we also have a couple young rising dmen. Trading Price is impossible. There's no replacement in the system or even in the league. Unless we can get Rinne or Quick, we can't upgrade there, nor could we have incentive to downgrade. Subban can be largely -albeit not entirely- replaced within the system AND can land us significant upgrades at other positions. We'll never improve the team via trading if we don't give assets. Subban is a great trading piece for the puzzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 We'll never improve the team without trading? Really? I mean allowing 22 year old defencemen to mature and become better players as they grow, doesn't improve the team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 We'll never improve the team without trading? Really? I mean allowing 22 year old defencemen to mature and become better players as they grow, doesn't improve the team? What he means, is you can't expect value coming back, if you don't trade value. It comes down to where you would like your asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Trading Subban is just a really bad idea. I don't know why anyone could think it's a good idea. I mean, maybe if he becomes disgruntled and asks for a trade then maybe you can trade sideways for a defenseman of similar age and skill. If not, why would you trade just for the sake of trading? We have a young, talented core that is growing together. Subban for Nash = never... That is such a bad deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 I say no, Subban is already the best D on our team and the 4th overall pick is a gamble (and won't be ready for top flight minutes as a rookie). How do we replace Subban's 25 minutes per game? My thoughts as well. I love SUbban, love how steady he is, his charisma and like you said the fact he is already the best playr on the team but IMO it would depend on how the draft unfolds. Yakupov is going 1 or 2....I think that is a safe assumption. The question then becomes whether Murray is the other player in the top 2 or whether Grigorenko or GalChenyuk becomes that guy? If somehow Murray and Galchenyuk are still there at 3-4 then for me personally that's where it gets interesting. Are we better off with Subban or better off with Murray and Okposo. By all accounts Murray looks ready for the NHL next season and many have him projected as a future Norris candidate. If he's still available that's where the decision is not so clear cut for me at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 We'll never improve the team via trading if we don't give assets. Subban is a great trading piece for the puzzle. First of all, Beaulieu is probably three seasons away from just being NHL ready. That's not even top four ready. There is nobody in the system who has Subban's potential closer or similar in the system. Beaulieu is all we got. Second, relying on Markov and Kaberle to be your puck movers (while what, keeping Weber around?) is just asking for defensive breakdowns and the potential for an injury costing the team for the whole year again. I thought we were trying to move on from that? Third, we're not talking about giving up and equal player. We're talking about getting a 20-30 goal scorer and cripple our blueline's ability to carry the puck TO our top six. It's retroactive. Oh, and adding a high first rounder who could boom or bust. Our defence gets propped up a bit by having Carey Price and the last thing I'd want to do with him so close to needing a new contract is removing the guys he relies on just to beef up scoring up front. Truth is we got kids like Louis Leblanc and Brendan Gallagher with the potential to be top six forwards plus we went most of the season without Brian Gionta and we're getting him back. As others have stated, patience is what we need. Once our assets are signed, then we can see who can go and who can stay for what. Of course, this hypothetical also involves the Islanders giving up a first round pick and Okposo for Subban which makes zero sense on their end. What, is Subban going to get them a new arena? Unlikely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Also, if we're going to discuss far-fetched rumours, might as well discuss the Ovechkin to Montreal rumour. http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/ovie-to-habs-seems-unlikely At least then I'd consider moving Subban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Also, if we're going to discuss far-fetched rumours, might as well discuss the Ovechkin to Montreal rumour. http://www.hockeyins...-seems-unlikely At least then I'd consider moving Subban. There are some really unintelligent comments on this page... "Enough of this hedging on Price to develop, he’ll develop, but we need to win today. Make Price a backup until he matures. Follow the Halak/Price formula and we have a winning combination…..anyway we can get Halak back in MTL with the above combo?" Seriously.. thats ridiculous. So just... wow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I love that idea that we can only have one player of Subban's type at a time. Wrong. You can never have enough elite D, and unless the aging Markov fully recovers his 2008 form we are going to need at least one more elite defenceman in addition to Subban if we ever hope to contend. I've said it before and I'll say it again. PK is an absolute stud, all-star calibre talent, the first such blueliner we've developed since Markov and, before that, Chelios - plus he is one of the most charismatic players in the entire league. For the love of God, ENJOY it instead of rushing to ship him out of town!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 There are some really unintelligent comments on this page... "Enough of this hedging on Price to develop, he’ll develop, but we need to win today. Make Price a backup until he matures. Follow the Halak/Price formula and we have a winning combination…..anyway we can get Halak back in MTL with the above combo?" Seriously.. thats ridiculous. So just... wow. The Internet is full of a lot of crazies. I think my three all-time favourites are, "You would have to add at least Burrows to get me to trade the Kostitsyns for the Sedins (in 09)", "Malkin and Crosby just isn't enough to replace Dustin Brown (when the Pens won the Cup)" and, "It was a fair assumption by the Maple Leafs to believe that every one of their players were going to have a better year statistically." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 My thoughts as well. I love SUbban, love how steady he is, his charisma and like you said the fact he is already the best playr on the team but IMO it would depend on how the draft unfolds. Yakupov is going 1 or 2....I think that is a safe assumption. The question then becomes whether Murray is the other player in the top 2 or whether Grigorenko or GalChenyuk becomes that guy? If somehow Murray and Galchenyuk are still there at 3-4 then for me personally that's where it gets interesting. Are we better off with Subban or better off with Murray and Okposo. By all accounts Murray looks ready for the NHL next season and many have him projected as a future Norris candidate. If he's still available that's where the decision is not so clear cut for me at least. Ready for the NHL, and ready to replace Subban's 25+ minutes per game are two different things. Murray is also another Left handed shot on defence... which means we would seriously be lacking in right handed shooting dmen after giving up Subban.... only having Diaz and Weber who shoot right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I love that idea that we can only have one player of Subban's type at a time. Wrong. You can never have enough elite D, and unless the aging Markov fully recovers his 2008 form we are going to need at least one more elite defenceman in addition to Subban if we ever hope to contend. I've said it before and I'll say it again. PK is an absolute stud, all-star calibre talent, the first such blueliner we've developed since Markov and, before that, Chelios - plus he is one of the most charismatic players in the entire league. For the love of God, ENJOY it instead of rushing to ship him out of town!!!! That elite d-man will be Ryan Murray (once Yakupov and Galchenyuk go 1-2) And i think the RH vs LH shot is not a big deal at all for guys who can handle the puck well, for ones like Spacek, Gill, Gorges or Yemelin it is harder for them. But for top skilled d-men there are as many pros as cons playing the off wing, same as LH-RH wingers playing their off-wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Ready for the NHL, and ready to replace Subban's 25+ minutes per game are two different things. Murray is also another Left handed shot on defence... which means we would seriously be lacking in right handed shooting dmen after giving up Subban.... only having Diaz and Weber who shoot right. But will have Dietz/Sullivan/Pateryn/Didier/Ellis/Nygren, in a few years to shoot right; but i still think not a big deal and is just a minor consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 But will have Dietz/Sullivan/Pateryn/Didier/Ellis/Nygren, in a few years to shoot right; but i still think not a big deal and is just a minor consideration. Our of those six, maybe two will have NHL careers. One of those careers may not be with the Canadiens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 But will have Dietz/Sullivan/Pateryn/Didier/Ellis/Nygren, in a few years to shoot right; but i still think not a big deal and is just a minor consideration. Nice Depth defencemen, but who will be a top pairing guy out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Nice Depth defencemen, but who will be a top pairing guy out of them. Who knows how Nygren pans out? He supposedly has a wicked shot, as does Weber/Diaz (and Subban's is just scary wild, he needs to cut out the John Daly wind-up, useless and just for showboating) Ellis/Pateryn/Dietz are all defensive d-men and i wouldnt expect big offensive #s from any of them to speak of. Didier is way too far from NHL to tell much yet? With Murray and Subban (he aint going anywhere) paired up once Markov is no longer top pair with Yemelin, Or we may luck out and Timmins is high on Dumba and takes him, so you will get your 2 top RH shots (which i still see as sort of irrelevant) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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