jcc10 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Totally agree about the D, but we should try to avoid problematic, one-dimensional players if we can. I'm assuming that MB is shooting for a genuine fix, not some player that is going to create new sets of problems. Either that, or he is crossing his fingers that Tinordi can fill the hole - a high-risk, high-reward strategy that I don't like. IMO the fix is in Hamilton and our prospects. I feel that enough will pan out so all we need is a short term solution. How good and fast Emelin recovers is maybe the biggest concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I can't understand why noone is mentioning Douglas Murray. This guy would be unreal in a Habs uniform, and exactly the kind of defenceman we need. He's huge, hits, and is sound defensively. Sure, the 2011 version of Douglas Murray is that guy. The 2013 version is slow as molasses, and is breaking down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I can't understand why noone is mentioning Douglas Murray. This guy would be unreal in a Habs uniform, and exactly the kind of defenceman we need. He's huge, hits, and is sound defensively. He's slow and can't play defence. There's more to playing D than the ability to hit (which he is good at). Given his reputation, I would expect a bit of a bidding war for his services and given the Habs' cap situation, I don't think they can really afford to get into one. I did in "State of the Habs" along with Fistric. A poster replied that he was sick and tired of those type of posts.He must have be happy with the Boullion,Diaz,Weber,Drewiske and Kaberle grouping Alright, enough with trying to incite reactions from the posters that don't agree with you. If that's all you have to contribute in a post, keep it to yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc10 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 He's slow and can't play defence. There's more to playing D than the ability to hit (which he is good at). Given his reputation, I would expect a bit of a bidding war for his services and given the Habs' cap situation, I don't think they can really afford to get into one. Alright, enough with trying to incite reactions from the posters that don't agree with you. If that's all you have to contribute in a post, keep it to yourself. That's like saying we should get rid of Markov,because he is slow and can't play a physical game. There's also more to playing defense than scoring points. People don't agree with others,but there's no reason for someone to be a wise-ass about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 That's like saying we should get rid of Markov,because he is slow and can't play a physical game. There's also more to playing defense than scoring points. People don't agree with others,but there's no reason for someone to be a wise-ass about it And yet with some of your posts, you've done that exact thing when you refer to those who don't agree with you. With regards to Murray, in terms of his defensive abilities alone, I don't believe he is an NHL quality player anymore (that's to say nothing else about any other aspect of his play). The fact that Pittsburgh, a team who really could have used defensive d-men, chose to play him less than any regular defenceman, says a lot. I acknowledge that his hitting is an asset (just as I did in the last post) but does that alone make him a must-get? He's a 14-16 minute guy now, I'd rather a guy like Fistric who will provide similar strengths (and ice time) at a fraction of the price. Will Murray get signed? Sure, his reputation is still strong and the fact he does play physical should give him several suitors. You suggest that my statement about Murray could turned around with Markov (get rid of him because he's slow and can't hit). His strengths, however, are his offensive play as well as his ability to play defence, the position in which he is paid to play. Every player has their strengths and weaknesses, Murray, Markov, and everyone else are in the same boat there. The difference is that one can play in his own end, the other one struggles there. So no, I am most certainly not alleging with my comments about Murray that the Habs should dump Markov because he's slow and doesn't hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I still think Murray would be a great addition to the D corps. I know he's not the quickest, but he's still effective I believe. I wouldn't want to sign him for anymore than 2 years, but he would be a great fill in, until some of the kids are ready to step up. Looking at his cap hit though, you may be right, he is probably looking for 3-3.5 and that is too much to pay for him, and is probably why he hasn't been signed yet. Too bad, because I think he'd fit in nicely with our current group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc10 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 And yet with some of your posts, you've done that exact thing when you refer to those who don't agree with you. With regards to Murray, in terms of his defensive abilities alone, I don't believe he is an NHL quality player anymore (that's to say nothing else about any other aspect of his play). The fact that Pittsburgh, a team who really could have used defensive d-men, chose to play him less than any regular defenceman, says a lot. I acknowledge that his hitting is an asset (just as I did in the last post) but does that alone make him a must-get? He's a 14-16 minute guy now, I'd rather a guy like Fistric who will provide similar strengths (and ice time) at a fraction of the price. Will Murray get signed? Sure, his reputation is still strong and the fact he does play physical should give him several suitors. You suggest that my statement about Murray could turned around with Markov (get rid of him because he's slow and can't hit). His strengths, however, are his offensive play as well as his ability to play defence, the position in which he is paid to play. Every player has their strengths and weaknesses, Murray, Markov, and everyone else are in the same boat there. The difference is that one can play in his own end, the other one struggles there. So no, I am most certainly not alleging with my comments about Murray that the Habs should dump Markov because he's slow and doesn't hit. Pitt has Orpik and Engelland that play similar styles. To say he isn't an NHL quality d-man is laughable,especially when you look at our group.And Markov's defense resembled a turnstyle last year,he can't turn and has no speed. He was overplayed as far as his TOI is concerned. i will reserve full judgement though on this year,as it takes two years to recover from his surgeries. As for Fistric: I'd like to see him in a Hab uni,why wasn't he re-signed by the team that desperately needs a physical D-man as much as we do.Saying he'd be a fraction of Murrays price is just not true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Pitt has Orpik and Engelland that play similar styles. To say he isn't an NHL quality d-man is laughable,especially when you look at our group.And Markov's defense resembled a turnstyle last year,he can't turn and has no speed. He was overplayed as far as his TOI is concerned. i will reserve full judgement though on this year,as it takes two years to recover from his surgeries. As for Fistric: I'd like to see him in a Hab uni,why wasn't he re-signed by the team that desperately needs a physical D-man as much as we do.Saying he'd be a fraction of Murrays price is just not true That's not what I said though. With regards to Murray, in terms of his defensive abilities alone, I don't believe he is an NHL quality player anymore (that's to say nothing else about any other aspect of his play). The fact that Pittsburgh, a team who really could have used defensive d-men, chose to play him less than any regular defenceman, says a lot. I acknowledge that his hitting is an asset (just as I did in the last post) but does that alone make him a must-get? He's a 14-16 minute guy now, I'd rather a guy like Fistric who will provide similar strengths (and ice time) at a fraction of the price. Will Murray get signed? Sure, his reputation is still strong and the fact he does play physical should give him several suitors. His defensive play (d-zone awareness, positioning, reaction time, etc) is not up to NHL standards in my opinion. That's all I'm saying. There are other parts that are and that make him an NHL defenceman still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patience is a virtue Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Morrow seems like he'd be a good fit in terms of his attributes - except he's listed as a LW. I believe he plays RW too, but if he's mainly on the left side, then that's a bit odd given how stacked we are at LW. Meanwhile, is Bergevin seriously considering going into the season with our current D-corps? Every rumour seems to centre on a forward. IMO the fix is in Hamilton and our prospects. I feel that enough will pan out so all we need is a short term solution. How good and fast Emelin recovers is maybe the biggest concern. Bruce Peter suggested at EotP that we trade Moen for whatever and sign Morrow as his replacement++ for a couple of seasons. If he'd take 2 years at 2.5-3M, I would love that. But that's probably pie in the sky. I am starting to wonder if jcc is right about the D CC. I have definitely shared your perspective on this, but: Markov-Subban Gorges-Diaz Tinordi-Bouillon Bouillon, Beaulieu, Drewiski, Pateryn is not the end of the world. After Emelin comes back, we're looking at: Gorges-Subban Markov-Emelin Tinordi-Diaz Bouillon, Beaulieu, Drewiski, Pateryn That's a pretty darn good d-corps. Sure I'd rather have a big tough top four shutdown dman now instead of Gorges, but a) maybe Gorges bounces back this year, and b) it looks like Tinordi is going to become that guy. Of course, the danger is an injury to two top four dmen, or one more before Emelin comes back. But no team can afford to carry 6 top four dmen "just in case", and no quality top four dman wants to sign with a team where they are likely to be bumped down to the bottom pairing in the very near future. What makes sense of the wait and see approach MB seems to be taking is that we have two future top four dmen developing in Tinordi and Beaulieu. Next season I hope to see: Tinordi-Subban Markov-Emelin Beaulieu-Gorges Diaz, Pateryn, Drewiski, Ellis With Markov and Beaulieu switching roles the followiing year (2015-16). The only thing that would make sense in terms of big changes now is to trade Beaulieu or Gorges + picks (or whatever) for a quality top-four dman with a big body. But it'd be hard to give away Beaulieu right now, as he will hopefully replace Markov in years to come (well, no one will be able to replace Markov's elite offensive skill and all around excellence, except Subban, of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Ugh, the day Habs fans steer clear of Eyes on the Prize the better we'll all be as fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I suspect Morrow will sign before the end of the day. Call it my educated guess of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 So I guess Jersey will not be in Jagr and Morrow big time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patience is a virtue Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Ugh, the day Habs fans steer clear of Eyes on the Prize the better we'll all be as fans. That's pure silly. Best website by far for stats based analysis of the Habs; offers informative and valuable perspectives. Love this site for the links especially, and the, usually, quality discussion. The above comment notwithstanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 That's pure silly. Best website by far for stats based analysis of the Habs; offers informative and valuable perspectives. Love this site for the links especially, and the, usually, quality discussion. The above comment notwithstanding EOTP is terrible. They don't use statistics properly. Berkshire hardly understands math let alone proper sentence structure. They also bow to possession stats which is the fault of anyone who considers advanced stats to be religion. They never understand that advanced stats are merely perspective and only make sense when combined with watching the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 EOTP is terrible. They don't use statistics properly. Berkshire hardly understands math let alone proper sentence structure. They also bow to possession stats which is the fault of anyone who considers advanced stats to be religion. They never understand that advanced stats are merely perspective and only make sense when combined with watching the games. I don't like that guy. In terms of hockey bloggers, the only one I dislike more is Harrison Mooney from Puck Daddy. Mooney is the the anti-Sean McIndoe. He isn't funny, and he really offers no concrete hockey analysis. He ends every sentence with "or something." Advanced stats are an interesting way to look at the games, but when he cited them to defend Scott Gomez over and over again I stopped reading. "Gomez may get 7.5 million, and not had a goal in a calender year but...corsi...fenwick...i'm right." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwihab Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I know this is the wrong thread (feel free to move it) but seeing we're on the subject, what other sites do you guys read regularly? Besides here, I read Spector, NHL.com, and puck daddy. I also keep an eye on hockeybuzz but before you all start laughing I like some of the non hab bloggers like cloutier and yost that are there. I used to like four habs fans, but four hockey fans isn't as good. Anyways, just wondering what hidden gems I could be missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 In terms of thoughtful, impassioned disquisitions on our Habs, I always liked this one: http://habsloyalist.blogspot.ca/ But she hardly ever seems to update it anymore, alas. Hockey Inside Out has, of course, probably the most animated (and frequently hilarious) message board around. Less substance than this one and the format is way worse, but for sheer amount of content it's tops. I like EOTP, but am not in a position to critically evaluate its use of advanced stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Last Word On Sports is great.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 Last Word On Sports is great.... Downvote for shameless self promotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Downvote for shameless self promotion Have I ever been shameful in my self promotion? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I know this is the wrong thread (feel free to move it) but seeing we're on the subject, what other sites do you guys read regularly? Besides here, I read Spector, NHL.com, and puck daddy. I also keep an eye on hockeybuzz but before you all start laughing I like some of the non hab bloggers like cloutier and yost that are there. I used to like four habs fans, but four hockey fans isn't as good. Anyways, just wondering what hidden gems I could be missing. Down Goes Brown is my favorite. Kerry Fraser's blog is interesting, Puck Daddy used to be a great source for news and off beat stories, but gets worse every week. (All six writers predicting the Bruins-what?!) Then probably 30 Thoughts with Elliot Friedman, and the Engels Angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patience is a virtue Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 "Gomez may get 7.5 million, and not had a goal in a calender year but...corsi...fenwick...i'm right." rotfl. I love this. Yep, Berkshire can be a bit reactionary and come across as arrogant, but he's grown on me over time. He works hard on EotP and keeps on expanding the site and recruiting quality writers. That website is way more than him, and way more than advanced stats. That being said, some folks there can get a little high and mighty about puck possession (i.e. corsi... fenwick... i'm right). And that being said, possession stats do seem to work (better than any other stat) as a tool for analyzing and predicting success. Another good site is Lions in Winter http://www.lionsinwinter.blogspot.ca/. Simple format, excellent writing by Topham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patience is a virtue Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I used to like four habs fans, but four hockey fans isn't as good. Oh my. Four Habs Fans use to make me laugh so hard. Their break up was tragic. Just looked at four hockey fans and it seems to have degenerated into almost pure smut minus most of the non-stop cutting wit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwihab Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Last Word On Sports is great.... Doh, sorry I forgot your site, I go there alot especially before the draft - great player profiles and reviews. There's a free shameless plug to go with your shameless self promotion. Lol Thanks everyone for the other sites too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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