The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Therrien is regularly accused around here of continually and irrationally holding back young players. The cases of Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Sekac, Bournival, and Andrighetto are all clear evidence that this position is based in an axiomatic demonization of the coach rather than any kind of evidence-based reasoning. There is nothing, I would suggest, 'fanatical' in that observation. Nothing at all. Now, those who wish to cling to the axiomatically anti-Therrien position on young players do have a remaining option. They can retreat to the narrower claim that, while Therrien does allow afford young forwards lots of opportunity, he does not do the same for young defenceman. That argument remains available. But the blanket accusation that 'Therrien is bad for young players' would be put to rest by any neutral or minimally rational observer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Neutral or minimally rationale?..remember that these are HabFans your referring to? And calm, patient, rational, reserved just aint best description of that group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Therrien is regularly accused around here of continually and irrationally holding back young players. The cases of Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Sekac, Bournival, and Andrighetto are all clear evidence that this position is based in an axiomatic demonization of the coach rather than any kind of evidence-based reasoning. There is nothing, I would suggest, 'fanatical' in that observation. Nothing at all. Now, those who wish to cling to the axiomatically anti-Therrien position on young players do have a remaining option. They can retreat to the narrower claim that, while Therrien does allow afford young forwards lots of opportunity, he does not do the same for young defenceman. That argument remains available. But the blanket accusation that 'Therrien is bad for young players' would be put to rest by any neutral or minimally rational observer. I don't believe that I have ever accused MT of crushing young talent. There are a plethora of management and coaches to assess their development. I do note that MB traded away a couple guys, in order to facilitate young guys coming up. I also do not comment much on who he plays, I do sometimes wonder if he justs spins the wheel, but I can't read his mind as to why he puts player a with b and c. I do however critisize the systems that do not work. The PP for instance. The PK works. The fact that the guys come out in the first period looking like deer caught in the headlights, can be attributed to either the leadership on the team or the coaching staff. I am pretty damn sure MT's plan is to have them come out like gangbusters every game, but that is not working so a solution must be found, that is up to the coach. I don't know who else can do it, he needs to take his leadership crew to task and get these guys motivated. We are in a good spot in the standings, by sheer luck and the graces of Carey Price, IMHO. We have won ugly too many times, it is a warning sign that something is wrong. You can't continue to bluff your way through games like we have been doing. The fact that we have been completely blown out out of the rink on several nights is proof of this. So if the coach is not responsible for how the team is playing, who is? I think we have a much better team than many on here think, 1 sniper, maybe 1 top 6 D and we are a cup contender. We are really close. I don't want to see us blow this window of opportunity by being satisfied that we are coming close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I don't believe that I have ever accused MT of crushing young talent. There are a plethora of management and coaches to assess their development. I do note that MB traded away a couple guys, in order to facilitate young guys coming up. I also do not comment much on who he plays, I do sometimes wonder if he justs spins the wheel, but I can't read his mind as to why he puts player a with b and c. I do however critisize the systems that do not work. The PP for instance. The PK works. The fact that the guys come out in the first period looking like deer caught in the headlights, can be attributed to either the leadership on the team or the coaching staff. I am pretty damn sure MT's plan is to have them come out like gangbusters every game, but that is not working so a solution must be found, that is up to the coach. I don't know who else can do it, he needs to take his leadership crew to task and get these guys motivated. We are in a good spot in the standings, by sheer luck and the graces of Carey Price, IMHO. We have won ugly too many times, it is a warning sign that something is wrong. You can't continue to bluff your way through games like we have been doing. The fact that we have been completely blown out out of the rink on several nights is proof of this. So if the coach is not responsible for how the team is playing, who is? I think we have a much better team than many on here think, 1 sniper, maybe 1 top 6 D and we are a cup contender. We are really close. I don't want to see us blow this window of opportunity by being satisfied that we are coming close. Well, I was referring specifically to the issue of MT and young players. Systems, etc., are another set of issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 I think Therrien focuses too much on young players errors instead of focusing on their overall play in a game (which leads to third period benchings) but at the same time, I think he gets blamed for things that are just plain ridiculous. Like people believing Galchenyuk not playing center at 20 years old was somehow a punishment or detrimental to his career, or people thinking it was a bad thing that Therrien wouldn't give Eller top six time and facilitate him with top forwards when he wasn't playing well. Very few looked at Therrien taking Galchenyuk and Gallagher off Eller's line as a promotion to the top six. They just focused on Eller losing skilled wingers on the third line. It's always about looking at it as a negative. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 maybe just maybe releasing galchenyuk from his "shackles" and putting him at centre this very moment in habs history when we've had "the death of a legend" and the whole hockey world continues to wait for the next great in a hab sweater.... PK and price have arrived.... maybe this was the perfect time to launch galchenyuk to stardom.... if so, he really could be... le genius... lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 maybe just maybe releasing galchenyuk from his "shackles" and putting him at centre this very moment in habs history when we've had "the death of a legend" and the whole hockey world continues to wait for the next great in a hab sweater.... PK and price have arrived.... maybe this was the perfect time to launch galchenyuk to stardom.... if so, he really could be... le genius... lol If that were true, I would be standing right beside Don, praising Le Genius. (maybe just not as much) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 maybe just maybe releasing galchenyuk from his "shackles" and putting him at centre this very moment in habs history when we've had "the death of a legend" and the whole hockey world continues to wait for the next great in a hab sweater.... PK and price have arrived.... maybe this was the perfect time to launch galchenyuk to stardom.... if so, he really could be... le genius... lol Hahaha. The new and improved "Sentimental Therrien." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 When Crazy Mike has been interviewed & asked about Andrighetto, Sekac, having Galchenyuk play centre, or the recall or demotion of Beaulieu, Therrien spouts darn 'sane' assessments that I bet most would likely have to agree with. But more sentimental is likely also somewhat true, as he has the fun experience of putting both feet in mouth before during career, so maybe really is bit older/wiser now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 If that were true, I would be standing right beside Don, praising Le Genius. (maybe just not as much) or who ever injured Lars Eller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I think Therrien focuses too much on young players errors instead of focusing on their overall play in a game (which leads to third period benchings) but at the same time, I think he gets blamed for things that are just plain ridiculous. Like people believing Galchenyuk not playing center at 20 years old was somehow a punishment or detrimental to his career, or people thinking it was a bad thing that Therrien wouldn't give Eller top six time and facilitate him with top forwards when he wasn't playing well. Very few looked at Therrien taking Galchenyuk and Gallagher off Eller's line as a promotion to the top six. They just focused on Eller losing skilled wingers on the third line. It's always about looking at it as a negative. every one has played with everyone under therrien...............other than the gio pleks and dd pax combo.....the rest just revolve....... heck last year gionta played pp, pk, top six and was on 4 on 4 ot every time..........nobody knew why? cause he had a c on his sweater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I don't believe that I have ever accused MT of crushing young talent. There are a plethora of management and coaches to assess their development. I do note that MB traded away a couple guys, in order to facilitate young guys coming up. I also do not comment much on who he plays, I do sometimes wonder if he justs spins the wheel, but I can't read his mind as to why he puts player a with b and c. I do however critisize the systems that do not work. The PP for instance. The PK works. The fact that the guys come out in the first period looking like deer caught in the headlights, can be attributed to either the leadership on the team or the coaching staff. I am pretty damn sure MT's plan is to have them come out like gangbusters every game, but that is not working so a solution must be found, that is up to the coach. I don't know who else can do it, he needs to take his leadership crew to task and get these guys motivated. We are in a good spot in the standings, by sheer luck and the graces of Carey Price, IMHO. We have won ugly too many times, it is a warning sign that something is wrong. You can't continue to bluff your way through games like we have been doing. The fact that we have been completely blown out out of the rink on several nights is proof of this. So if the coach is not responsible for how the team is playing, who is? I think we have a much better team than many on here think, 1 sniper, maybe 1 top 6 D and we are a cup contender. We are really close. I don't want to see us blow this window of opportunity by being satisfied that we are coming close. when wondering why the team looks flat coming out in the first you only have to look at the other team....they have a game plan and they get to work on it off the bat.................habs? they come out and REACT to the other team. its why the ice loos slanted on one end in the first period almost every single game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Not too mention the ace the habs have is in their own crease. He is a big major part of the habs, which means he is a big part of the game plan.......whether anyone wants to admit that or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Not too mention the ace the habs have is in their own crease. He is a big major part of the habs, which means he is a big part of the game plan.......whether anyone wants to admit that or not I've been on this board for years, and almost every person here has given all the credit in the world to Carey Price. There have been a few doubts here and there, but since at least the Olympics Price has been given a pass against any protracted criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I've been on this board for years, and almost every person here has given all the credit in the world to Carey Price. There have been a few doubts here and there, but since at least the Olympics Price has been given a pass against any protracted criticism. I have been here for a while myself, and I recall being referred to ( and not only me) as a Price Fan Boy. So no not everyone has always given credit to him, but I have been a staunch fan because as I always used to say( i don't have to anymore) he is the most technically sound goalie I have ever seen. He is the thoroughbred that Big Bob promised us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 I've been on this board for years, and almost every person here has given all the credit in the world to Carey Price. There have been a few doubts here and there, but since at least the Olympics Price has been given a pass against any protracted criticism. oh i do not mean to imply there is anyone on here that does not like or credit price ....how could you not. in responding to the preparing for the game, where it looks like "the team" (meaning the players from the crease out).........a big part of montreals plan for winning IS carey price.............so maybe it is not a mystery as to why this team is not ready in the first....they are ready. Come on down! Meet our best player, early. what i meant "admit it or not" is this. question to coaching staff "whats the game plan"? answer "well, carey price mostly" ahh...thats explains why we see so much of him right off the opening face off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 the 2005 draft class was horrible.... thank the heavens we had the smarts/ balls to take carey price in the 5 spot recognizing no real players on the table. imagine we drafted gilbert brule instead.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 oh i do not mean to imply there is anyone on here that does not like or credit price ....how could you not. in responding to the preparing for the game, where it looks like "the team" (meaning the players from the crease out).........a big part of montreals plan for winning IS carey price.............so maybe it is not a mystery as to why this team is not ready in the first....they are ready. Come on down! Meet our best player, early. what i meant "admit it or not" is this. question to coaching staff "whats the game plan"? answer "well, carey price mostly" ahh...thats explains why we see so much of him right off the opening face off. While I don't always agree with you negative out look on our habs, I must say that you bring an interesting perspective to the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 the 2005 draft class was horrible.... thank the heavens we had the smarts/ balls to take carey price in the 5 spot recognizing no real players on the table. imagine we drafted gilbert brule instead.... It was a choice between Price or Marc Staal. Gainey chose correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronthab Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 the 2005 draft class was horrible.... thank the heavens we had the smarts/ balls to take carey price in the 5 spot recognizing no real players on the table. imagine we drafted gilbert brule instead.... Is that ever true. Thank you uncle Bob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 It was a choice between Price or Marc Staal. Gainey chose correctly. i do not recall marc stall potentially going at 5. i don't think he even broke the top 10. the talk i recall was brule, then we pulled the rabbit out of the hat and grabbed pricer. such a long time ago.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 the 2005 draft class was horrible.... thank the heavens we had the smarts/ balls to take carey price in the 5 spot recognizing no real players on the table. imagine we drafted gilbert brule instead.... Thank the heavens is right........... and ya know i remember Bob Gainey taking some flak from the media and such for taking a goalie with that high of a pick. At that time Gainey could still do no wrong in my eyes. So I figured Price must be pretty special, if Gainey would go out on a limb like that AND sound as confident as he did when asked to defend the pick. The rest as they say is history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 i do not recall marc stall potentially going at 5. i don't think he even broke the top 10. the talk i recall was brule, then we pulled the rabbit out of the hat and grabbed pricer. such a long time ago.... I believe Kopitar was the one some say he should have taken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 The funny thing is Benoit Pouliot was picked 1 ahead of Price, and Gilbert Brule was 1 after. Anyone want to trade any of those around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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