Lister110 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 (edited) Who cares what Bertuzzi did. The point is can he help this team? I firmly believe he can. Eventually Moore will be out of the picture and Bert will return to his competitive ways. If this trade is possible we shouldn't let moralizing get in the way. There is already too much of that crap in the game already. Figure skating is on the verge of becoming more dangerous a sport than hockey. Where did all these Bettmans come from anyway? You'd think all these fans are millionaire NHL stock investors dreaming of the day Americans take over the game with their viewership. Just change the channel to the basketball game and get it over with! Edited June 13, 2006 by Lister110 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 One of the main concerns with Bertuzzi is the fact it's oft been mentioned in certain circles that he's rumoured to be a disruptive force in the dressing room. Whether this is actually true or not remains to be proven? However true that may be or not the fact is Bertuzzi brings with him a ton of excess baggage that stems from the Moore incident. With the filing of suits and countersuits, and the publicity associated with such events, the fact remains if the Habs really want to find themselves in the centre of a circus sideshow? Past events suggest otherwise, as we've seen Theodore, and to some lesser extent Brisebois, eventually traded when they've found themselves in the midst of circumstances that seem to distract from the team itself. So it is not necessarily as much about moral issues for some who question if they want Bertuzzi in a Habs jersey, as it is about purposely obtaining a commodity that already finds itself in the midst of circumstances that have the unnecessary potential to create a major distraction. Those possibilities have to be weighed carefully for a franchise that has long been proud of its' reputation for class and excellence, no matter how good that player may be? Do you want a good player with a sideshow always lurking on the horizon, or do you want just a good player who comes to play every night with no issues already included at the point of purchase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 If Bertuzzi netted 100 points with the Habs next season, I am betting there would suddenly be a change of heart with every one on this page. I believe he has been humbled in the last year with a whole lot to prove. I would be happy to have him. His baggage may even allow the Habs to get him for a bargain price. I say it is worth the risk. And if it doesn't work out, maybe the Avs would take him off our hands. They love helping us out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 If Bertuzzi netted 100 points with the Habs next season, I am betting there would suddenly be a change of heart with every one on this page. I believe he has been humbled in the last year with a whole lot to prove. I would be happy to have him. His baggage may even allow the Habs to get him for a bargain price. I say it is worth the risk. And if it doesn't work out, maybe the Avs would take him off our hands. They love helping us out. Yeah, thanks for Roy. Appreciate it. Trading for Bertuzzi would be suicide for an Avs GM. We'd make the Habs and Brisebois look like a mother scolding her son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 If Bertuzzi netted 100 points with the Habs next season, I am betting there would suddenly be a change of heart with every one on this page. I believe he has been humbled in the last year with a whole lot to prove. I would be happy to have him. His baggage may even allow the Habs to get him for a bargain price. I say it is worth the risk. And if it doesn't work out, maybe the Avs would take him off our hands. They love helping us out. Have extreme doubts he'll put 100 points on the board? And baggage is still baggage regardless of being a bargain if it causes a sideshow.... The fact is it's up to Gainey to decide if he wants to run any potential risks for a player with a history, right or wrong! In the end though I'll trust his decision regardless of what the fans may think/want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Just to add, you guys want someone on your team with a temper like his? Look at his past Like the time in 1991, playing in the Northern Ontario midget championships, when his team was beaten out in the finals by Sault Ste. Marie and he chased the winning team's bus out of the parking lot, swearing and pounding on the windows, out of control. The next year, his first in the Ontario Hockey League, Bertuzzi missed the end of that season and the beginning of the next when he was suspended 15 games for kicking a Kitchener player. The year after that, in his own locker room, for no apparent reason other than jealousy, he punched out teammate Jeff O'Neill, who at the time was Guelph's prized first-round pick. In the NHL, Bertuzzi punched linesman Jean Morin in a 1996 scuffle and ended up suspended for three games before losing 10 more games to suspension for jumping the bench to attack a Colorado player in 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Just to add, you guys want someone on your team with a temper like his? Look at his past We need a loose cannon! But I'm not sure in today's NHL that Bertuzzi has the same value he once had. Powerforwards are on the decline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Why worry about Bertuzzi when there are already better players coming and leaving the Habs... like Sundstrom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Yeah, thanks for Roy. Appreciate it. Trading for Bertuzzi would be suicide for an Avs GM. We'd make the Habs and Brisebois look like a mother scolding her son. Well, considering Brisebois is now an Av...and a soon to be paid $3mil a season one, I don't know. Although yes the Roy trade was quite possibly the worst trade ever made by a Habs GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Brisebois was worth it for the first half of the season. Him and Liles worked wonders together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komisarek the Cruncher Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 One of the main concerns with Bertuzzi is the fact it's oft been mentioned in certain circles that he's rumoured to be a disruptive force in the dressing room. Whether this is actually true or not remains to be proven? However true that may be or not the fact is Bertuzzi brings with him a ton of excess baggage that stems from the Moore incident. With the filing of suits and countersuits, and the publicity associated with such events, the fact remains if the Habs really want to find themselves in the centre of a circus sideshow? Past events suggest otherwise, as we've seen Theodore, and to some lesser extent Brisebois, eventually traded when they've found themselves in the midst of circumstances that seem to distract from the team itself. So it is not necessarily as much about moral issues for some who question if they want Bertuzzi in a Habs jersey, as it is about purposely obtaining a commodity that already finds itself in the midst of circumstances that have the unnecessary potential to create a major distraction. Those possibilities have to be weighed carefully for a franchise that has long been proud of its' reputation for class and excellence, no matter how good that player may be? Do you want a good player with a sideshow always lurking on the horizon, or do you want just a good player who comes to play every night with no issues already included at the point of purchase? Bravo !!! Very well said. People confuse the morality with the baggage and the stupidity of the guy. I don't care if he killed the guy, Bert still has a pending lawsuit against him and why bring over here the circus show? That would be the dumbess thing to do. Also, see the comments about is temper. The guy as a reputation of being a jackass in the clubhouse and impossible to coach, no thank you. Some of you have to stop just looking at point production, hockey is a team sport and the team needs to jell to be good and a jackass like Bert won't contribute that way. Besides, he only scored 25 goals last year and he played with Naslund and had tons of PP time, not that impressive for a 5M$ player. And I repeat for the zillionth time, we need a CENTER, not a damn winger, we have tons of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 And I repeat for the zillionth time, we need a CENTER, not a damn winger, we have tons of them. And where are you going to get this "Mystical Centre" ? Lets see nobody wants to spend any money (Which is not ours so no big deal) and nobody has come up with a name that could play centre for the Habs. I like Arnott but he is going to cost some $$$$. I keep hearing we need a centre the sky is falling but there is not one Centre who can score 100 points available. And for those of you that say you don't need a scoring centre, are you the same people who said we need a scoring centre? I am confused about this whole thing But it is a fun discussion, break out those boxing gloves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Couldn't Savard be considered a scoring center? He'd be smart to re-sign with Atlanta though, I doubt theres too many teams that want to take a chance on him. 90% of his career points have come from Heatley and Kovalchuk. Who played with him and Kovul this season? Bondra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Couldn't Savard be considered a scoring center? He'd be smart to re-sign with Atlanta though, I doubt theres too many teams that want to take a chance on him. 90% of his career points have come from Heatley and Kovalchuk. Who played with him and Kovul this season? Bondra? I think there are many on here that do not like him. I think his offense is very good and would help put some pucks in the net, but he is too one dimensional. I think all of us hockey fans are always looking for that top tier center of which there really are none around this year. I was in hopes that Richards was within reach, but that well went dry real fast. I would like to see someone go from within the Habs organization and just become a dominant center. It would solve many problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsniper Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 I think there are many on here that do not like him. I think his offense is very good and would help put some pucks in the net, but he is too one dimensional. I think all of us hockey fans are always looking for that top tier center of which there really are none around this year. I was in hopes that Richards was within reach, but that well went dry real fast. I would like to see someone go from within the Habs organization and just become a dominant center. It would solve many problems. Yeah there are, for Leafs fans anyway. They're all expecting Sakic in a Leafs uniform next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komisarek the Cruncher Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 And where are you going to get this "Mystical Centre" ? Lets see nobody wants to spend any money (Which is not ours so no big deal) and nobody has come up with a name that could play centre for the Habs. I like Arnott but he is going to cost some $$$$. I keep hearing we need a centre the sky is falling but there is not one Centre who can score 100 points available. And for those of you that say you don't need a scoring centre, are you the same people who said we need a scoring centre? I am confused about this whole thing But it is a fun discussion, break out those boxing gloves. Any center will do. Some might be available via trade. Ribs is a very low quality center and any replacement will upgrade the Habs by a ton. Ribs qualities: great vision and great passer Ribs problems: small and easily pushed off the puck, very slow, as no shot, below average on face-offs, bad defensively, not physical, doesn't play hard often and disapears in the playoffs.... Not that hard to upgrade. I prefer Plekanec as 2nd center over Ribs. Arnott is a possibility but will cost about 5M$. As for trades, well, who knows who's available? As long as we bring in somebody else to replace Ribs, I will be happy with next year's team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Any center will do. Some might be available via trade. Ribs is a very low quality center and any replacement will upgrade the Habs by a ton. Ribs qualities: great vision and great passer Ribs problems: small and easily pushed off the puck, very slow, as no shot, below average on face-offs, bad defensively, not physical, doesn't play hard often and disapears in the playoffs.... Not that hard to upgrade. I prefer Plekanec as 2nd center over Ribs. Arnott is a possibility but will cost about 5M$. As for trades, well, who knows who's available? As long as we bring in somebody else to replace Ribs, I will be happy with next year's team. I think if Montreal had to start the year with Plekanec at center for the second line it would be interesting. Why? He had a very good end of season run and played as well as anyone could expect. With the Habs going to be close to the cap, I think you are right that a trade would have to be made for a center. Would Ribero be a better winger than center? I lke his offensive abilities, just not his defensive responsibilites that a center must perform. Plelanec is so much more responsible in the center position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Would Ribero be a better winger than center? I lke his offensive abilities, just not his defensive responsibilites that a center must perform. Plelanec is so much more responsible in the center position. I can't see Ribeiro being very effective at wing either. He would have to work the boards and go into the corners, which aren't his strengths, due to his lack of strength! An upgrade is needed. Move Ribeiro to some other team that just looks at stats (preferably, 2 years ago stats!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 And I repeat for the zillionth time, we need a CENTER, not a damn winger, we have tons of them. Ummm... which of our many wingers do you consider to be a productive natural goal scorer? I am confused here. Yes, maybe in a year or two one of the young guns will fill this position, but not to take away from Ryder, as I love the guy like a brother from a different mother, but if he is our leading goal scorer again next season we are in trouble. I agree we need a second line center, 1st and second if Saku doesn't return, but we also need a goal scorer and a #1 defenceman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Ummm... which of our many wingers do you consider to be a productive natural goal scorer? I am confused here. Yes, maybe in a year or two one of the young guns will fill this position, but not to take away from Ryder, as I love the guy like a brother from a different mother, but if he is our leading goal scorer again next season we are in trouble. I agree we need a second line center, 1st and second if Saku doesn't return, but we also need a goal scorer and a #1 defenceman. So if you bring in another winger how exactly are guys like Higgins, Perezhogin and Kostitsyn suppose to develop when there stuck behind a free agent (that you think Montreal should sign), Zednik, Kovalev and Ryder. Keeping in mind that Murray and Downey will play either 3rd or 4th line duty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komisarek the Cruncher Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 (edited) Ummm... which of our many wingers do you consider to be a productive natural goal scorer? I am confused here. Yes, maybe in a year or two one of the young guns will fill this position, but not to take away from Ryder, as I love the guy like a brother from a different mother, but if he is our leading goal scorer again next season we are in trouble. I agree we need a second line center, 1st and second if Saku doesn't return, but we also need a goal scorer and a #1 defenceman. Like Kaos said, how are young gyys going to develop with no ice time? Ryder is a 30 goal scorer. Kovy with a full season is a 30 goal scorer, even more if match with a decent center. Higgins could score 30 if he keeps doing what he was doing at the end of the season. I think that's pretty decent goal scoring from our wingers, 3 30 goal scorers + who knows from the other young guys. Why would an experience UFA come in and score more? There are not that many guys available and the 40 goal scorers are almost non existent and probably too expensive for what we can afford. Your wish list is nice (center, goal scorer, #1 D), but impossible with our cap situation. We have to be realistic here. We can afford one of these guys, not all 3. See our cap situation on the free agent thread, you will quickly realize that we can't afford all these guys. Many fans seem to forget that there is a thing called a cap in the NHL now. Edited June 15, 2006 by Komisarek the Cruncher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Many fans seem to forget that there is a thing called a cap in the NHL now. Exactly, or they seem to think that Montreal has massive space under the cap and/or is willing to spend the entire $43 Million, or whatever the cap is going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thib46 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Exactly, or they seem to think that Montreal has massive space under the cap and/or is willing to spend the entire $43 Million, or whatever the cap is going to be. I agree, people are not considering the money aspect of the New NHL. I can't help but think some of the people asking for big name FA are thinking this is like the government, spend, spend and spend some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beliveau1 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 The cap dictates everything - no matter how much you'd like to spend, or what you'd like to have. While you can go out and buy something, the fact is you can't expect to go on a wild spending spree. Creativity, trades and especially grooming your prospects are what it takes. Gainey has the patience and the hockey smarts to accomplish that. Unlike Bobby Clarke (who just said he can't stand 2 year plans - i.e. rebuilding programs as that suggests you aren't interested in winning) who still hasn't grasped what the changes are in the new NHL? TSN - Flyers off season plans????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRHAB Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 I would do it in a second but sounds like a pipe dream here Tampa could get great young talent and draft picks for this player even though he hasnt lived up to the hype yet. Great player but hasnt reach his full promised potential that being said I still would greab him for my team any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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