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Galchenyuk traded for Domi

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14 minutes ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

That’s a two way street... 

galchenyuk has had already 1 full reconstruct of the one knee and has re injured it once since as well as injuring his other knee... do claims could be made that he’s just as damaged if not more so...

 

 

Except Galchenyuk still has been able to score, while Domi has not.

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I don't understand why the same people that are dumping on Domi's goal totals are the same people that argued against acquiring Shea Weber's superior goal totals. Subban had 6 (!) goals in his last year as a Hab while Weber had 20 for Nashville. "Oh but it is overall offense that matters" they said. But now we get Domi with identical points per game as Galchenyuk, but it is terrible because he can't score. 

 

Talk about hypocrisy 

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16 minutes ago, illWill said:

I don't understand why the same people that are dumping on Domi's goal totals are the same people that argued against acquiring Shea Weber's superior goal totals. Subban had 6 (!) goals in his last year as a Hab while Weber had 20 for Nashville. "Oh but it is overall offense that matters" they said. But now we get Domi with identical points per game as Galchenyuk, but it is terrible because he can't score. 

 

Talk about hypocrisy 

Maybe because the highest assist total Domi has ever had is 36, compared to Galchenyuk’s 32 - a whopping differential of 4 assists.  On the other hand, Galchenyuk has scored 30 goals to domi’s 18 - a differential of 12.  

 

Galchenyuk clearly is the more skilled player with the higher ceiling.  If this deal had to be made (which it didn’t - because it doesn’t address either of our 2 biggest needs), we should have got a lot more in return.

 

oh, and unlike the moron MB, Arizona has already said hat Galchenyuk will get a chance at centre.

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If you want to talk about positions, that's a completely different argument, one that I will agree with.

 

I'm talking about point production, and points per game is the greatest indicator of that, which they are the same. Domi had identical production in year two before his broken hand as he had in his rookie season. Last year wasn't as good but yet he still only finished with 6 less points than Galchenyuk. He also was +24 better, take that for what it's worth

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1 hour ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

That’s a two way street... 

galchenyuk has had already 1 full reconstruct of the one knee and has re injured it once since as well as injuring his other knee... do claims could be made that he’s just as damaged if not more so...

 

 

 

He played better than domi last year.  Both post injury 

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36 minutes ago, illWill said:

I don't understand why the same people that are dumping on Domi's goal totals are the same people that argued against acquiring Shea Weber's superior goal totals. Subban had 6 (!) goals in his last year as a Hab while Weber had 20 for Nashville. "Oh but it is overall offense that matters" they said. But now we get Domi with identical points per game as Galchenyuk, but it is terrible because he can't score. 

 

Talk about hypocrisy 

 

Probably because 6 for a defenceman and 6 for a forward are very different totals. 

 

Weber is one of the best defencemen in the league for being able to score 20 goals. A forward scoring 20 goals is... great if you are Paul Byron.

 

If you are a forward and can't put 10 pucks in the back of the net, you usually shouldn't touch the top six.

 

Domi scored only five goals on a goalie last season. You know who did that for us? Joe Morrow.

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43 minutes ago, illWill said:

I don't understand why the same people that are dumping on Domi's goal totals are the same people that argued against acquiring Shea Weber's superior goal totals. Subban had 6 (!) goals in his last year as a Hab while Weber had 20 for Nashville. "Oh but it is overall offense that matters" they said. But now we get Domi with identical points per game as Galchenyuk, but it is terrible because he can't score. 

 

Talk about hypocrisy 

 

The points per game argument is flawed for this reason.

 

Chucks 18 and 19 year old years he didnt score much thus bringing down his average.  Domi's 18 and 19 year old years he was still in the ohl.

 

Compare apples to apples just the last three seasons and chuck scores more points per game.

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5 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Probably because 6 for a defenceman and 6 for a forward are very different totals. 

 

Weber is one of the best defencemen in the league for being able to score 20 goals. A forward scoring 20 goals is... great if you are Paul Byron.

 

If you are a forward and can't put 10 pucks in the back of the net, you usually shouldn't touch the top six.

 

Domi scored only five goals on a goalie last season. You know who did that for us? Joe Morrow.

 

Nicolas deslauriers did double that.

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9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

The points per game argument is flawed for this reason.

 

Chucks 18 and 19 year old years he didnt score much thus bringing down his average.  Domi's 18 and 19 year old years he was still in the ohl.

 

Compare apples to apples just the last three seasons and chuck scores more points per game.

Age doesn't factor into your equation?

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3 minutes ago, illWill said:

Age doesn't factor into your equation?

 

Take chucks three years at the same age as domi.  I

He outproduces him there too.

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The best defensemen in the league this year  ( probably Doughty) had 10 goals.... 

 

The best forward in the league this year has 40. 

 

Come talk to me when a forward wins the Hart trophy with 10 goals. 

1 hour ago, illWill said:

I don't understand why the same people that are dumping on Domi's goal totals are the same people that argued against acquiring Shea Weber's superior goal totals. Subban had 6 (!) goals in his last year as a Hab while Weber had 20 for Nashville. "Oh but it is overall offense that matters" they said. But now we get Domi with identical points per game as Galchenyuk, but it is terrible because he can't score. 

 

Talk about hypocrisy 

 

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3 hours ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Probably because 6 for a defenceman and 6 for a forward are very different totals. 

 

Weber is one of the best defencemen in the league for being able to score 20 goals. A forward scoring 20 goals is... great if you are Paul Byron.

 

If you are a forward and can't put 10 pucks in the back of the net, you usually shouldn't touch the top six.

 

Domi scored only five goals on a goalie last season. You know who did that for us? Joe Morrow.

 

No comment on the logic? You want to compare forwards and defensemen instead? 

 

3 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

Take chucks three years at the same age as domi.  I

He outproduces him there too.

 

So you're talking 0.65 ppg vs 0.61.....okay then

 

2 hours ago, Habopotamus said:

The best defensemen in the league this year  ( probably Doughty) had 10 goals.... 

 

The best forward in the league this year has 40. 

 

Come talk to me when a forward wins the Hart trophy with 10 goals. 

 

 

No comment on the logic? You want to compare forwards and defensemen instead? 

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4 minutes ago, illWill said:

No comment on the logic? You want to compare forwards and defensemen instead?  

 

Your logic is bad. I addressed it.

 

The only forwards with less than 10 goals and with 35 or more assists are Max Domi and Henrik Sedin. 

 

Unless we think, boy, now that Max Domi is here, he's gonna put up 50+ assist seasons, this is not a good thing.

 

Except to you, since you are trying to find some weird point of hypocrisy.

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27 minutes ago, Machine of Loving Grace said:

 

Your logic is bad. I addressed it.

 

The only forwards with less than 10 goals and with 35 or more assists are Max Domi and Henrik Sedin. 

 

Unless we think, boy, now that Max Domi is here, he's gonna put up 50+ assist seasons, this is not a good thing.

 

Except to you, since you are trying to find some weird point of hypocrisy.

 

Habs world logic: We hate the Subban trade because he is an all around better player. 

Some guy with an opinion: Well, Weber scored over 3x the amount of goals that Subban did, and this team needs to score goals. 

Habs world logic : Yeah but Subban creates offense, look at those assists. 

 

Montreal trades Galchenyuk for Domi:

 

Habs world logic: We hate that trade, we need to score goals and Galchenyuk does it better. 

Some guy with an opinion: Yeah but their points per game are the same....

Habs world logic: Something about defensemen vs forwards? 

 

 

 

 

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It’s not like Galchenyuk doesn’t know how to handle the puck himself. 

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4 minutes ago, xXx..CK..xXx said:

It’s not like Galchenyuk doesn’t know how to handle the puck himself. 

 

I don’t think anyone thinks otherwise. The problem is he stops moving his feet once he gets it.

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.04 or not... better is still better 

 

Also add in the fact he did that while getting jerked around from lw to c and back... spending some of his time on the fourth and some on the first and everywhere in between and getting no benefit from empty net points that domi gets 

 

We traded away chuck... and got a less productive player kn the same position.  Thats the bottom line here.

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2 hours ago, illWill said:

Habs world logic: Something about defensemen vs forwards? 

 

I struggle to figure out if you are genuine or like Don you just don't get it so you say stuff to antagonize. Not sure whether to throw you on ignore as well. But anyway.

 

The Subban/Weber goals argument was stupid because while Weber is indeed a better goal scorer, they were both upper echelon goal scoring defencemen. Subban's last season he had a cold streak and so his numbers were low but he proved in Nashville in the next two seasons it was an anomaly. But Weber has played 288 more regular season games than Subban and only has 24 more assists. That's how much better Subban is in that department. In that same time frame Weber has 100 more goals. That isn't something I expect Subban to catch up with, but it isn't a comparable gap to their assists and total points. That doesn't even get into the fact that Subban outscores and outplays Weber career playoffs and that defensively Weber doesn't beat Subban in anything other than an eye test.

 

Now when it comes to Domi and Galchenyuk, Domi is a fine setup man. Won't get any disagreement from me. But he has also trended downward and he is starting to look like Scott Gomez with the difference in his goal scoring and assist production. Look at their past two seasons:

 

Domi: 141 games, 18 goals, 65 assists

Galchenyuk: 143 games, 36 goals, 59 assists

 

So we got around the same amount of games, around the same amount of assists, but 18 goals in difference. But you want to discuss plus minus? That is a significant production difference.

 

Now personally, I don't think Domi will be as bad as say Shaw. Both are human garbage but on the ice I will take Domi every day. But Domi is by no means a superior playmaker to Galchenyuk enough to make up for his lack of goal scoring. So unless you believe in the intangibles crap, Montreal loses this trade out the gate. Again. You can "time will tell" if you want. I was wrong about Beaulieu. Ain't like I'm always right. Just right enough.

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2 hours ago, illWill said:

 

Habs world logic: We hate the Subban trade because he is an all around better player. 

Some guy with an opinion: Well, Weber scored over 3x the amount of goals that Subban did, and this team needs to score goals. 

Habs world logic : Yeah but Subban creates offense, look at those assists. 

 

Montreal trades Galchenyuk for Domi:

 

Habs world logic: We hate that trade, we need to score goals and Galchenyuk does it better. 

Some guy with an opinion: Yeah but their points per game are the same....

Habs world logic: Something about defensemen vs forwards? 

 

 

 

 

I understand the point you’re trying to make, however it misses a few crucial points of comparison.

 

Subban averages nearly 12 goals per year in his career. Six, was an off year. Shea Weber averages nearly 18. Clearly the better goal scorer yes. 

 

However, Subban drives offence, and creates far more scoring chances than Weber does at 5 on 5. It heavily offsets the extra 6 goals Weber scores on his power play slap shots.

 

Commandant or someone else may be able to help out here with a reference, but I’ve seen that Galchenyuk similarly drives the offence better than Domi.

 

While Domi and Weber provide an upgrade in one area, they do not affect the game as positively as a whole that Subban and Galchenyuk did. The issue I’m having, and likely a lot of others, is that we seem to be losing skill and players who drive offence at every turn. 

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People have underrated Domi here, he has played with far worse teammates over the years than Galchenyuk and it’s not even close. Played on a worse team as well.

 

Still had almost identical points per game, I think that’s pretty telling.

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In                                      Out

Andrew Shaw                Lars Eller

Max Domi                     Alex Galchenyuk 

Karl Alzner                    Andrei Markov

Antii Neimi                    Alex Radulov

Jon drouin                    Mikhail Sergachev

Shea Weber                  P.K Subban

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1 hour ago, Scott462 said:

People have underrated Domi here, he has played with far worse teammates over the years than Galchenyuk and it’s not even close. Played on a worse team as well.

 

Still had almost identical points per game, I think that’s pretty telling.

 

209 goals last year's habs

208 goals last year's coyotes

 

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8 hours ago, Meller93 said:

I understand the point you’re trying to make, however it misses a few crucial points of comparison.

 

Subban averages nearly 12 goals per year in his career. Six, was an off year. Shea Weber averages nearly 18. Clearly the better goal scorer yes. 

 

However, Subban drives offence, and creates far more scoring chances than Weber does at 5 on 5. It heavily offsets the extra 6 goals Weber scores on his power play slap shots.

 

Commandant or someone else may be able to help out here with a reference, but I’ve seen that Galchenyuk similarly drives the offence better than Domi.

 

While Domi and Weber provide an upgrade in one area, they do not affect the game as positively as a whole that Subban and Galchenyuk did. The issue I’m having, and likely a lot of others, is that we seem to be losing skill and players who drive offence at every turn. 

 

 

Advanced numbers wise

 

Galchenyuk has an edge on Domi in driving 5v5 production.

 

Domi is better defensively 5v5 however that difference is not big enough to offset the following.

 

Galchenyuk is much better on the pp

Galchenyuk is much better at 4v4 and 3v3 

 

Besides defence... The only real place domi has galchenyuk is that hes better at creating shots in the slot for teammates. (Galchenyuk is much better at taking his own shots in the slot area). Basically domi is a better playmaker.

 

Overall its a downgrade though.

 

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1 hour ago, Habopotamus said:

In                                      Out

Andrew Shaw                Lars Eller

Max Domi                     Alex Galchenyuk 

Karl Alzner                    Andrei Markov

Antii Neimi                    Alex Radulov

Jon drouin                    Mikhail Sergachev

Shea Weber                  P.K Subban

Ouch!

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

209 goals last year's habs

208 goals last year's coyotes

 

Only thing I'll say here is Habs were crazy banged up last year...up and down, I think they have more talented team than Arizona...I don't like the trade, but I do think Domi will fare better with the Habs and I also don't think Chucky will flourish in Arizona... 

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