Would you trade Souray?

[jetsniper]

Forsberg a shadow of his former self? What?

In the last 3 seasons of play, counting this year, he has 170 points in 139 games. Yes, injures trouble him but it's nothing new. He missed the entire 01-02 regular season and then lead the entire league in post-season scoring even though he didn't play in the finals.

If he played in 82 games this year, he'd have 82 points. If he played 82 games last year, he would've had 102 points and the season before the lockout, if he played all year, would've had 116 points. Yeah, thats a drop in production over the years but that still puts him near the top of the league in scoring.

Make no mistake, Forsberg is still a force to be reckoned with, as long as he's not injured which has been his downfall his entire career. But he is still one of the most productive players in the league and still has some of the most trade value in the league. Trying to say Souray has the same value as Forsberg because he's a "shadow of his former self" is laughable. Forsberg went for the right value, Souray can go for a mid-level prospect and a 1st. Not someone high-end like Vlasic or Carle though. Vlasic/Carle+1st is a lofty goal. Although after what Witt went for last deadline, anythings possible.

[Strummerman]

I didn't say he couldn't get one of them, strummerman said he could get Vlasic, Carle and a 1st!

That would ruin the sharks future and is outrageous. Nagy is worth more than Souray, he is younger, a ppg player on a terrible team, and he is making 900,000. Sure he will get more next year but Souray will expect probably 5million and he is not worth it.

People need to step out of this forum once in awhile and realize that other teams value their players and dont exist only to serve us.

If he isnt your favorite player then why does it say "Kovalev" under favorite player?

Vlasic and Carle are not superstars, they have potential like Plekanec and Komisarek. Thornton Cheechoo and Marleau are superstars and are in their prime. Now is the time for the Sharks not in 5 years. Is Forsberg signing with Nashville next year? Nashville thinks now is the time to win the Cup. Anybody remember the Flames trading a young Brett Hull?

Forsberg a shadow of his former self? What?

In the last 3 seasons of play, counting this year, he has 170 points in 139 games. Yes, injures trouble him but it's nothing new. He missed the entire 01-02 regular season and then lead the entire league in post-season scoring even though he didn't play in the finals.

If he played in 82 games this year, he'd have 82 points. If he played 82 games last year, he would've had 102 points and the season before the lockout, if he played all year, would've had 116 points. Yeah, thats a drop in production over the years but that still puts him near the top of the league in scoring.

Make no mistake, Forsberg is still a force to be reckoned with, as long as he's not injured which has been his downfall his entire career. But he is still one of the most productive players in the league and still has some of the most trade value in the league. Trying to say Souray has the same value as Forsberg because he's a "shadow of his former self" is laughable. Forsberg went for the right value, Souray can go for a mid-level prospect and a 1st. Not someone high-end like Vlasic or Carle though. Vlasic/Carle+1st is a lofty goal. Although after what Witt went for last deadline, anythings possible.

Was he injured last year in the playoffs against the Sabres? Don't get me wrong Forsberg with a good cast like Nashville could help them to a Cup win like Recchi did with Carolina last year. However, he will be only a supporting player.

Edited February 17, 2007 by Strummerman

[smon]

Well, Souray could get Carle and a 1st easily imo

[jetsniper]

Vlasic and Carle are not superstars, they have potential like Plekanec and Komisarek. Thornton Cheechoo and Marleau are superstars and are in their prime. Now is the time for the Sharks not in 5 years. Is Forsberg signing with Nashville next year? Nashville thinks now is the time to win the Cup. Anybody remember the Flames trading a young Brett Hull?

Maybe not Vlasic but Carle has shown the potential to one day lead the league in defensive scoring, everyones seen it. And as we all know with Norris voting, the more points you have, the more votes you get. The more I think about it though, the more Vlasic and a 1st sounds reasonable, from a non-biased point of view. It's still a lot to give up but San Jose doesn't have a lot of offensive threats on the blueline. Souray on that team would be killer.

Was he injured last year in the playoffs against the Sabres? Don't get me wrong Forsberg with a good cast like Nashville could help them to a Cup win like Recchi did with Carolina last year. However, he will be only a supporting player.

Does it matter? You can't base an entire teams playoff performance on one player. Everyone knew the Flyers downfall all season was the fact they had no speed. With slow, bulky towers like Rathje and Hatcher on defence, Buffalo's speed was far too much for Philly to cope with. Not to mention Esche was a sieve. Even then, Forsberg had 8 points in 6 games for that series. He did his best to help the Flyers but that was a poorly constructed team defensively and Buffalo exposed them.

And now that I take a closer look, Forsberg scored both GW's in Philly's two wins over Buffalo as well.

[Fanpuck33]

Well, Souray could get Carle and a 1st easily imo

I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.

[Strummerman]

Maybe not Vlasic but Carle has shown the potential to one day lead the league in defensive scoring, everyones seen it. And as we all know with Norris voting, the more points you have, the more votes you get. The more I think about it though, the more Vlasic and a 1st sounds reasonable, from a non-biased point of view. It's still a lot to give up but San Jose doesn't have a lot of offensive threats on the blueline. Souray on that team would be killer.

Does it matter? You can't base an entire teams playoff performance on one player. Everyone knew the Flyers downfall all season was the fact they had no speed. With slow, bulky towers like Rathje and Hatcher on defence, Buffalo's speed was far too much for Philly to cope with. Not to mention Esche was a sieve. Even then, Forsberg had 8 points in 6 games for that series. He did his best to help the Flyers but that was a poorly constructed team defensively and Buffalo exposed them.

And now that I take a closer look, Forsberg scored both GW's in Philly's two wins over Buffalo as well.

That is it potential- Souray will produce right away. Carle has 6 goals this year, he aint no Bobby Orr or Paul Coffey. Carle is playing with the likes of Thronton and Marleau, if he had great offensive skills he should have much better stats.

Forsberg had 8 points because he played on the poweplay and had wingers like Gagne. However, he was supposed to lead the team to the promised land. He was outplayed by the likes of Briere and Maxi. In his prime Forsberg would have singlehandledly made the difference. Age and Injury diminish players. That's life

[jetsniper]

That is it potential- Souray will produce right away. Carle has 6 goals this year, he aint no Bobby Orr or Paul Coffey. Carle is playing with the likes of Thronton and Marleau, if he had great offensive skills he should have much better stats.

Well if you're going to use those two then neither is Souray.

Forsberg had 8 points because he played on the poweplay and had wingers like Gagne. However, he was supposed to lead the team to the promised land. He was outplayed by the likes of Briere and Maxi. In his prime Forsberg would have singlehandledly made the difference. Age and Injury diminish players. That's life

He's still in his prime but he's never single-handedly made a difference. Very few hockey players ever have made a difference on their own. Not even Gretz. He's been injured his entire career. In the 7 seasons up to his Hart season (where he didn't play a full season), he played a full season once. But he sure wasn't diminished there.

In the last 2 seasons which you claim he's diminished, he has a PPG average of 1.15. His career PPG average is 1.25. Seems to me, he's still as injured as he's ever been and he's still as good as he's ever been.

[BCHabnut]

Forsberg a shadow of his former self? What?

In the last 3 seasons of play, counting this year, he has 170 points in 139 games.

170 pts in a possible 246 games isn't that great. Kovy has 171 pts in the last 3 years and Koivu has 188.

He missed 107 games in the last 3 years. I don't care about pts per game, I care about pts per season.

Forsberg is a freakin band-aid. End of story

[InsaneHABSfan]

To stay on topic that really does not happen on this board too often.

YES

Rumor of Joe Pavelski and a first round pick for Souray would be a good start to the bidding. He's gone, and not coming back to this team next year.

But then I don't expect Gainey to do anything as he is still stuck in preseason.

Edited February 17, 2007 by InsaneAVSfan

[Chips]

Love your last post InsaneAVSfan...

let me get to the point.

Trade Souray if we get a good return. First round pick and a good young player at least...

else keep him!

Go HABS GO!

Edited February 17, 2007 by Chips

[OneSharpMarble]

I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.

Yeah too bad San Jose wont unless they are uber desperate, that 1st pick would have to be conditional.

170 pts in a possible 246 games isn't that great. Kovy has 171 pts in the last 3 years and Koivu has 188.

He missed 107 games in the last 3 years. I don't care about pts per game, I care about pts per season.

Forsberg is a freakin band-aid. End of story

That bandaid has more value than half our team, show some respect the guy is one of the best in the nhl. I didn't want him on our team for the asking price but calling him a shadow of his former self is laughable. He still dominates and puts up huge points, when he plays he wins you alot of games. We don't have one player and havnt had one for about 10 years even in his league so lets leave him out of this argument.

[Strummerman]

Well if you're going to use those two then neither is Souray.

He's still in his prime but he's never single-handedly made a difference. Very few hockey players ever have made a difference on their own. Not even Gretz. He's been injured his entire career. In the 7 seasons up to his Hart season (where he didn't play a full season), he played a full season once. But he sure wasn't diminished there.

In the last 2 seasons which you claim he's diminished, he has a PPG average of 1.15. His career PPG average is 1.25. Seems to me, he's still as injured as he's ever been and he's still as good as he's ever been.

I have answered the Forsberg issue in other posts and threads. As for Souray, I am projecting if he played with the Sharks a full year he would be closing in on 30 goals this year with Thornton and Marleau feeding him. How many goals did Cheechoo score before Thornton's arrival last year.

Souray will get over 20 goals this year, Carle has 6 with Thornton. I think in terms of potential in players for every 5 players with potential maybe one pans out. Carle and Vlasik could be busts. That is the risk one takes when trading for potential.

As for not making a difference umm where was San Jose last year before Thornton and where were they after Thornton? Where was Colorado before Roy and after Roy?

Anyways I find this whole argument from supposed Habs fans really weird. I didn't think Carle and Vlasik were as outstanding as you folks think they are. I saw some good potential that's about it. As for the the derogatory remarks about Souray from again supposedly habs fans I find that really weird. Frankly I think Souray has been the MVP for the habs this season and the true leader.

Edited February 17, 2007 by Strummerman

[jetsniper]

170 pts in a possible 246 games isn't that great. Kovy has 171 pts in the last 3 years and Koivu has 188.

He missed 107 games in the last 3 years. I don't care about pts per game, I care about pts per season.

Forsberg is a freakin band-aid. End of story

What the hell is that? That doesn't even make sense. You're saying if he played a full season those 3 years, he wouldn't of scored in the rest of the games he played? And what difference does it make what Kovalev or Koivu has? We're not talking about Forsberg going to Montreal so thats useless.

You're missing what I'm saying here. Yes, he is a liability when it comes to injuries, I've said that countless times. But when he does play, he is still a top 5 player in the game. You want to compare them, lets compare them. First with the games Kovalev has played in the last 3 years.

Kovalev: 204 games played, 171 points

Forsberg: 204 games played, 249 points

Koivu: 198 games played, 188 points

Forsberg: 198 games played 242 points

Seriously, yes he's really bad for injuries, no one is disputing that and thats the only thing I keep hearing. What he ISN'T bad for though is production. He's still a top 10, maybe even top 5 forward in the NHL today and is far from being a shadow of his former self. You want a shadow of their former self? Look at Recchi, Leclair, Weight, Tkachuk, Friesen. Those are guys that have faded with age and injuries, sure as hell not Forsberg.

As for not making a difference umm where was San Jose last year before Thornton and where were they after Thornton? Where was Colorado before Roy and after Roy?

After Roy? Finished 1 point away from winning the division with a supposed "nothing-more-then-a-backup". Since then we've lost Forsberg, Foote, Tanguay and Blake.

San Jose? Nabokov picked his play up, Cheechoo was on fire (albeit with help from Joe) and theres another player named Marleau you might know. He added a huge spark but he didn't turn that team around all on it's own. It was a team effort which is what hockey is all about. Best example right now is Pittsburgh. They have Crosby and some old stars and go nowhere. Then Pittsburgh gives him some credible support, some real weapons and now they're a threat.

Anyways I find this whole argument from supposed Habs fans really weird. I didn't think Carle and Vlasik were as outstanding as you folks think they are. I saw some good potential that's about it. As for the the derogatory remarks about Souray from again supposedly habs fans I find that really weird. Frankly I think Souray has been the MVP for the habs this season and the true leader.

Don't count me in there, not a Habs fan. Never have been.

[Strummerman]

What the hell is that? That doesn't even make sense. You're saying if he played a full season those 3 years, he wouldn't of scored in the rest of the games he played? And what difference does it make what Kovalev or Koivu has? We're not talking about Forsberg going to Montreal so thats useless.

You're missing what I'm saying here. Yes, he is a liability when it comes to injuries, I've said that countless times. But when he does play, he is still a top 5 player in the game. You want to compare them, lets compare them. First with the games Kovalev has played in the last 3 years.

Kovalev: 204 games played, 171 points

Forsberg: 204 games played, 249 points

Koivu: 198 games played, 188 points

Forsberg: 198 games played 242 points

Seriously, yes he's really bad for injuries, no one is disputing that and thats the only thing I keep hearing. What he ISN'T bad for though is production. He's still a top 10, maybe even top 5 forward in the NHL today and is far from being a shadow of his former self. You want a shadow of their former self? Look at Recchi, Leclair, Weight, Tkachuk, Friesen. Those are guys that have faded with age and injuries, sure as hell not Forsberg.

After Roy? Finished 1 point away from winning the division with a supposed "nothing-more-then-a-backup". Since then we've lost Forsberg, Foote, Tanguay and Blake.

San Jose? Nabokov picked his play up, Cheechoo was on fire (albeit with help from Joe) and theres another player named Marleau you might know. He added a huge spark but he didn't turn that team around all on it's own. It was a team effort which is what hockey is all about. Best example right now is Pittsburgh. They have Crosby and some old stars and go nowhere. Then Pittsburgh gives him some credible support, some real weapons and now they're a threat.

Don't count me in there, not a Habs fan. Never have been.

Whatttttttttttttttttttttttttt- are you denying that Thornton did not change the fortunes of the Sharks last year. Marleau was with the Sharks how many years? Nabakov? Cheechoo was a 50 goal scorer how many years before Thornton??? Besides everything else Nabokov was not even the first stringer most of the year- I have heard enuff I think you folks just wanna argue for the sake of arguing au revoir back to the Crosby show on Tsn

Edited February 17, 2007 by Strummerman

[beliveau1]

Sorry your being an ass- that same Forsberg grit and determination that let the Sabres wipe out the Flyers last year- you are dreaming of the past- Forsberg whether thru injury or age is a shadow of his former self period. As is Bertuzzi-

As for saying Souray brings nothing but his offensive game duh that's what I keep repeating- take away Gonchar from the Penguins and their powerplay is average to mediocre and they are as bad as last year in the standings- If you haven't noticed the New NHL is a powerplay influenced league.

The point you should have made is that if Lindstrom or Niedermeyer played with the Habs would they be in the playoffs and higher up- I think so. Never said Souray compared to either one- However could Souray make a difference to a team like San Jose in their Cup run, I dont think there is a doubt

= time better wasted than arguing with you... so dream on dude(in NHL 2007 technicolour)

[InsaneHABSfan]

I take it this thread is not about Souray any more????

[Strummerman]

I take it this thread is not about Souray any more????

I think this room is teeming with habhaters- can we purge them out?

[beliveau1]

I think this room is teeming with habhaters- can we purge them out?

so then if I understand you right, if people happen to disagree with your opinion, then they are a 'Habhater'

Buddy I've been a Canadiens fan since well before you were even a glint in your father's eye.....

Unfortunately the only problem you seem have is the fact that some people happen to disagree with you - learn to live with it :?-

[Strummerman]

so then if I understand you right, if people happen to disagree with your opinion, then they are a 'Habhater'

Buddy I've been a Canadiens fan since well before you were even a glint in your father's eye.....

Unfortunately the only problem you seem have is the fact that some people happen to disagree with you - learn to live with it :?-

I was talking about Jetssniper an admitted Habs hater as for the glint in my father's eye I remember seeing Beliveau play and your a disgrace using his id and dishing on Souray.

Edited February 17, 2007 by Strummerman

[Colin]

I was talking about Jetssniper an admitted Habs hater as for the glint in my father's eye I remember seeing Beliveau play and your a disgrace using his id and dishing on Souray.

Trolling HFBoardsman strikes again.

[InsaneHABSfan]

I think this room is teeming with habhaters- can we purge them out?

Well Mr. Strummerman. Seeing as you have no clue what type of fan I am I guess you should just read a little more carefully instead of posting out your A$$. My one line was about this thread which you so quickly painted me into being a habs hater. Leaf hater...mmm..yes..Bruin hater..definitely.

I have been a habs fan and member of this board PROBABLY long before you found it, maybe not.

Your lack of reading skills are amazing in that you do not understand what you read. I am not a Fanboy Habs can do nothing wrong type person. I do not like what I see and if you think this is good hockey then your observations may be different than mine.

I want my Larry Robinson era type Habs back and this team is far from it.

[Strummerman]

Well Mr. Strummerman. Seeing as you have no clue what type of fan I am I guess you should just read a little more carefully instead of posting out your A$$. My one line was about this thread which you so quickly painted me into being a habs hater. Leaf hater...mmm..yes..Bruin hater..definitely.

I have been a habs fan and member of this board PROBABLY long before you found it, maybe not.

Your lack of reading skills are amazing in that you do not understand what you read. I am not a Fanboy Habs can do nothing wrong type person. I do not like what I see and if you think this is good hockey then your observations may be different than mine.

I want my Larry Robinson era type Habs back and this team is far from it.

Actually I wasnt even referring to you if you had bothered reading the next few posts but apparently you are limited in the number of words you can read. Frankly after your personal diatribe against me and your monosyllabic diatribe may I add, I do not think my intellect should be involved in retorting to your paranoic claims and juvenile prepubescent taunts

Trolling HFBoardsman strikes again.

thanks for your important opinion(bozo)

[habs_25th]

Souray is as much as our captain than Koivu is. He has more leadership, emotion and is a vocal guy in the dressing room. Trading him will hurt the Habs big time.

[brobin]

Reports are that Gainey is out to resign Souray. I think that is a good move. Offensive defensemen are not easy to get, they are not cheap, and they don't grow on trees.

Souray is the real deal and trading him for Vlasic, etc, is nuts. Hell, trade Rivet and a pick for those guys.

No, Souray is not Pronger, etc, but he is a goal scoring threat. He is big. (remember he is nursing a shoulder this year, but is apparently getting it fixed in the off season), and he is not as bad defensively as people make out. He has been paired with Rivet who has been just brutal!

If we can keep Markov and Souray, we will have a decent offensive blue line and PP. Dump Rivet and replace him with someone more reliable. Dump Niinimma and save money.

Get another center to go with Koivu. Preferably a better center, moving Koivu to the second line.

Now you have the makings of a contender. imo.

[kaos]

Well if you're going to use those two then neither is Souray.

He's still in his prime but he's never single-handedly made a difference. Very few hockey players ever have made a difference on their own. Not even Gretz. He's been injured his entire career. In the 7 seasons up to his Hart season (where he didn't play a full season), he played a full season once. But he sure wasn't diminished there.

In the last 2 seasons which you claim he's diminished, he has a PPG average of 1.15. His career PPG average is 1.25. Seems to me, he's still as injured as he's ever been and he's still as good as he's ever been.

Yes he has single handedly made a difference. Last years playoffs Peter Forsberg dominated games 3 and 4 and almost singlehandedly won them both of those games.