Athlétique.Canadien Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Bob will do the right thing. If he chooses to keep Souray then that is what he is going to do. I he moves him, he moves him. He will do what is right and necessary and that may be contrary to what posters on here feel is correct. If he does something the posters do not like: TOO BAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV-G Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Seriously, sign Souray for a 3 years deal right now or trade Souray for 1rst rounders pick and prospects right now... I'd prefer the 1rst option, but the 2nd one wouldn't make me feel bad... That's it exactly. Sign him now, or trade him. But make sure you don't lose that kind of asset for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Gainey has a policy, no contracts during the season. He will not talk to Markov or Souray until after the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Is there a way for us to do both? Develop young players, while keeping some veterans and possibly go a round or two in the playoffs. Why I feel it's important to make the playoffs is the money it generates for the team. I don't have the numbers handy, but I think the team pays more taxes than most american teams combined. Possibly a topic for another thread, but our tax situation is so bad, I feel the city is screwing the team badly. I'm not about lining Mr. Gillette's pockets with money, one soccer team is enough! I just want the team to compete on a level playing field with other teams. The NHL is always refered to as a gate-driven league, the more asses in the seats, the better off we all are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Personally I would love to hear from a season seat holder. It changes your perspective on things. I know as a Raptors season seat holder when people scream that they wanted to blow things up and start over, I fell like telling them to go ###### themselves. I spent thousands on watching the Raptors lose 50 games per year and blowing up a rebuild, to rebuild again was the last thing I was interested in. Fortunately they turned it around and it was worth it. When you dole out $2-5K every year you feel as though you have some say. Any season seat holders here? What do season seat holders feel about a rebuild, or selling off assets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) I'm not a season ticket holder, so I can't address that. But I don't agree with those who hold up the 'dark horse' theory - namely, that once you're in the playoffs anyone can go all the way, so we should keep Souray for the playoff drive and Cup run, even if we lose him for no return next season. The goal is to build a team that is a bona fide elite team: a Nashville, a Detroit, a New Jersey. These are teams that don't necessarily win the Cup in any given season, but over a period of years are likely to make a number of serious Cup runs, of which at least one is liable to succeed. That way, we won't be debating *will the Habs make the playoffs and then magically get hot??* We'll be debating whether the Habs are good enough to beat Ottawa or Buffalo in the semi-finals, or take Anaheim or whoever in the finals, etc.. Like in the good old days, say 1993, when sliding from 1st to 6th OVERALL was terribly upsetting (Now we'd give our eyeteeth to be 6th overall, no?) If we keep a MEDIOCRE team together in the hope of making a magical Cup run, and then lose Souray for nothing, the organization suffers a net loss in assets. That will make it harder even to sustain the current level of medicority the following year and into the future. As Reggie Houle amply showed, poor asset management is the ticket to perdition long-term. If we TRADE Souray and get back a stud young player who will anchor our core for years, then we're VASTLY more likely to end up as one of the elite powers in the NHL, and therefore vastly more likely to win the Cup. If we keep Souray for a few games and lose him after our likely 1st-round exit, we just perpetuate the vicious cyle of suckage. Smart managers play the odds; what the 'dark horse' types are proposing is that Montreal fans resign themselves to endless mediocrity and pray for miracles. No thanks. Of course, all of this assumes he won't re-sign with us. Whether we should re-sign him at 5 mil, that's another debate. But assuming him to be gone: TRADE SOURAY, CALICE!!! Edited February 26, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsmith Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I was a season ticket holder for about five years, but I simply can't keep up with the ticket prices. I had kids and the large amount of cash now seems better spent elsewhere. Plus the prices really have gone up too fast. My seats were endzone reds and were about 67 bucks plus tax when I started. They're about 100 now. Anyway I want the same thing now I wanted then- a perennial winner that's not scrambling to finish 7-12th every year. I think Bob's building one, but we're not there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I think that Gainey is exploiting the Habs bubble status in regard to the playoffs to full advantage. Turning it into an asset rather than an hindrance in terms of the trade flurry at the deadline. By not committing to being either a "buyer" or a "seller", he is able to consider all offers from playoff bound teams to the celler dwellers, strictly in terms of their overall merit. If you go to the market with money in your hand shouting for merchandise, the peddlers that going to demand a hefty price for their goods. If you go with a cart full of merchandise and no money, shouting "Goods for sale!", the buyers are going to make a lowball offer, assuming you need the money. But if you go with some merchandise and some money in your purse, just hanging around, you can buy if you hear a good offer, or sell if you see a good bargain. One or two players aren't likely to make the difference either way in terms of the team making the playoffs, or how well they do if they make it there. That has been proven over and over again, year after year. All the playoff bound teams usually add a vet or two, but still only one wins the Cup. It has never been the team that paid the most at the trade deadline, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I'm not a season ticket holder, so I can't address that. But I don't agree with those who hold up the 'dark horse' theory - namely, that once you're in the playoffs anyone can go all the way, so we should keep Souray for the playoff drive and Cup run, even if we lose him for no return next season. The goal is to build a team that is a bona fide elite team: a Nashville, a Detroit, a New Jersey. These are teams that don't necessarily win the Cup in any given season, but over a period of years are likely to make a number of serious Cup runs, of which at least one is liable to succeed. That way, we won't be debating *will the Habs make the playoffs and then magically get hot??* We'll be debating whether the Habs are good enough to beat Ottawa or Buffalo in the semi-finals, or take Anaheim or whoever in the finals, etc.. Like in the good old days, say 1993, when sliding from 1st to 6th OVERALL was terribly upsetting (Now we'd give our eyeteeth to be 6th overall, no?) If we keep a MEDIOCRE team together in the hope of making a magical Cup run, and then lose Souray for nothing, the organization suffers a net loss in assets. That will make it harder even to sustain the current level of medicority the following year and into the future. As Reggie Houle amply showed, poor asset management is the ticket to perdition long-term. If we TRADE Souray and get back a stud young player who will anchor our core for years, then we're VASTLY more likely to end up as one of the elite powers in the NHL, and therefore vastly more likely to win the Cup. If we keep Souray for a few games and lose him after our likely 1st-round exit, we just perpetuate the vicious cyle of suckage. Smart managers play the odds; what the 'dark horse' types are proposing is that Montreal fans resign themselves to endless mediocrity and pray for miracles. No thanks. Of course, all of this assumes he won't re-sign with us. Whether we should re-sign him at 5 mil, that's another debate. But assuming him to be gone: TRADE SOURAY, CALICE!!! Some things are based on faith and not reality. What would have to happen for Montreal to pull a Edmonton? Huet coming back and playing at a level of a torn groin that he has not done since December? Halak becoming the next Patrick Roy or Ken Dryden? Do we really expect this kid is a Hall of Famer? Our defence all of a sudden learning how to move the puck in their defensive zone and not allowing turnovers? Latendresse blossoming into a premier power forward in the next 20 games? Koivu and Kovalev raising their level higher than in 2004 when we upset the Bruins? Higgins regaining his form from the first 20 games? Our PK going back to number 1 in the league? Ryder not taking any shifts off for 2 straight months? If all those things happen can we still win the Cup? Some people believe that if you do not follow blindly that you are not a true fan. I agree with you 100% Cucumber, the goal in this league is to be the NJ/DET hell even OTT of the NHL. Not hoping for breaks and getting hot at the right time. I am 33 years old and I have not forgotten looking forward to every season because I believed the Habs could legitimately win it all, and they did TWICE. Now it is are we a playoff team? can we hold off the mighty Maple Leafs???? I trust Gainey and I know that he understands what the CH stands for. 24 Stanley Cups in 100 years does not stand for mediocrity. Houle destroyed the mystique of the Canadiens, he has made the younger generation throw parades for first round victories, an embarrasment only 10 years ago. So if you think that keeping Souray to get smoked by NJ or Buffalo is a step forward, go nuts. I believe it is not the way to go. I still hope for the return to the expectation that playoff hockey will be every spring and that they have a chance to win it every year. And because I believe that selling Souray for the best price right now does not mean I will not agonize over every single loss til the end of the season. I hope they prove me wrong! I think that Gainey is exploiting the Habs bubble status in regard to the playoffs to full advantage. Turning it into an asset rather than an hindrance in terms of the trade flurry at the deadline. By not committing to being either a "buyer" or a "seller", he is able to consider all offers from playoff bound teams to the celler dwellers, strictly in terms of their overall merit. If you go to the market with money in your hand shouting for merchandise, the peddlers that going to demand a hefty price for their goods. If you go with a cart full of merchandise and no money, shouting "Goods for sale!", the buyers are going to make a lowball offer, assuming you need the money. But if you go with some merchandise and some money in your purse, just hanging around, you can buy if you hear a good offer, or sell if you see a good bargain. One or two players aren't likely to make the difference either way in terms of the team making the playoffs, or how well they do if they make it there. That has been proven over and over again, year after year. All the playoff bound teams usually add a vet or two, but still only one wins the Cup. It has never been the team that paid the most at the trade deadline, either. Nice take. Could be, Bob is a shrewd guy. When he makes trades nobody ever sees them coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV-G Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 I'm not a season ticket holder, so I can't address that. But I don't agree with those who hold up the 'dark horse' theory - namely, that once you're in the playoffs anyone can go all the way, so we should keep Souray for the playoff drive and Cup run, even if we lose him for no return next season. The goal is to build a team that is a bona fide elite team: a Nashville, a Detroit, a New Jersey. These are teams that don't necessarily win the Cup in any given season, but over a period of years are likely to make a number of serious Cup runs, of which at least one is liable to succeed. That way, we won't be debating *will the Habs make the playoffs and then magically get hot??* We'll be debating whether the Habs are good enough to beat Ottawa or Buffalo in the semi-finals, or take Anaheim or whoever in the finals, etc.. Like in the good old days, say 1993, when sliding from 1st to 6th OVERALL was terribly upsetting (Now we'd give our eyeteeth to be 6th overall, no?) If we keep a MEDIOCRE team together in the hope of making a magical Cup run, and then lose Souray for nothing, the organization suffers a net loss in assets. That will make it harder even to sustain the current level of medicority the following year and into the future. As Reggie Houle amply showed, poor asset management is the ticket to perdition long-term. If we TRADE Souray and get back a stud young player who will anchor our core for years, then we're VASTLY more likely to end up as one of the elite powers in the NHL, and therefore vastly more likely to win the Cup. If we keep Souray for a few games and lose him after our likely 1st-round exit, we just perpetuate the vicious cyle of suckage. Smart managers play the odds; what the 'dark horse' types are proposing is that Montreal fans resign themselves to endless mediocrity and pray for miracles. No thanks. Of course, all of this assumes he won't re-sign with us. Whether we should re-sign him at 5 mil, that's another debate. But assuming him to be gone: TRADE SOURAY, CALICE!!! Exactly right!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 It would be hard pressed for Montreal to really tank the season now since they are 3-1 with Halak in net. If you are going to finish near the top 16, then you beter get into the playoffs for the $$$$. Why? The draft pick this high is not going to be a gamebreaker. Just my 2cents as an avid armchair GM and superior couch coach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) It would be hard pressed for Montreal to really tank the season now since they are 3-1 with Halak in net. If you are going to finish near the top 16, then you beter get into the playoffs for the $$$$. Why? The draft pick this high is not going to be a gamebreaker. Just my 2cents as an avid armchair GM and superior couch coach... Halak hasn't really played that well, despite the won loss record. I don't think he is going to be the saviour of the season. Obviously the Habs want to make the playoffs, for the dollars, the pride, and the experience. The only move Gainey has made so far hasn't really hampered the team's chances in the short term, while adding some future assets. As he said, the team is probably at least as well off with a healthy Josh Gorges for the next few games, as they would be with a recovering Craig Rivet. I don't think any future deal he makes will be strictly a buyer or a seller move, either. If he gets an amazing offer for Souray, he would likely seek a solid NHLer as part of the exchange, or reconvert some of the futures he receives into another short term acquisition to offset the loss of Sheldon. As far as the draft pick is concerned, I don't think you can project with any accuracy where it will fall, and how the player it's used on will pan out. If San Jose continues the slump they are in the pick could be in the low teens. Given the uncertainty of the 2007 draft projections, that pick could be just as likely to pan out as a top five pick. Looking at the standings, the Sharks are only 7 points ahead of the Habs with 20 games left to play. Wouldn't take all that much for the SJ pick to turn into their first pick in the draft. Edited February 26, 2007 by bobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) In 93 there was leadership in the locker room. This season, i doubt it. Can we pull a Edmonton? There is no Pronger or R. Smyth in this team. We got Koivu and Souray. Kovy is the one and only big playoffs player on this team, maybe Komi will become one as Steve Bégin. We need more Brind'amour or Chelios. Bring back Claude Lemieux for a 2 months contract LOL Edited February 26, 2007 by JoeLassister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Habs won the '93 Cup purely on luck and a hot Patrick Roy. Everything broke right for them that year in the playoffs. They weren't one of the better teams going in, but all of the favorites got upset in the first couple of rounds. They won 7 games in OT without a loss I think. How often will that happen? The following year they didn't even make the playoffs, and after losing their first 5 games of the season after that, Savard got the boot. Houle took over a team that was in shambles on the ice and a huge money loser off the ice. He and Mario Trembley turned the team around on and off the ice to a remarkable degree until a freakish string of injuries over three consecutvie seasons, combined with the fiscal limits Molsons made them work under finally did them in. Andre Savard took over a team with a lot of young players, extra draft picks, and twice the budget to work with, and made some brutal player signings of aging Francophone journeymen and a few of his old buddies from Ottawa. The teams he managed didn't have 1/10 the injuries to deal with that Houle and Trembley had to, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 If we lose tonight, our playoff position will look pretty ugly. The smartest option is to trade Souray. What if you keep him and then miss the playoffs (which may very well happen)? I think the people who want to keep Souray would change their minds if they saw what kind of return he could get us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 If we lose tonight, our playoff position will look pretty ugly. The smartest option is to trade Souray. What if you keep him and then miss the playoffs (which may very well happen)? I think the people who want to keep Souray would change their minds if they saw what kind of return he could get us. I'm pretty sure that Souray is in play, and I don't think it has anything to do with the standings or tonight's game. It all depends on what is offered in return. Hopefully a dynamic has been set in motion, particularly in the Western Division, where teams who haven't made a deal to strengthen their team for the playoffs now feel compelled to do so because of what their competitors are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) Habs won the '93 Cup purely on luck and a hot Patrick Roy. Everything broke right for them that year in the playoffs. They weren't one of the better teams going in, but all of the favorites got upset in the first couple of rounds. They won 7 games in OT without a loss I think. How often will that happen? The following year they didn't even make the playoffs, and after losing their first 5 games of the season after that, Savard got the boot. Houle took over a team that was in shambles on the ice and a huge money loser off the ice. He and Mario Trembley turned the team around on and off the ice to a remarkable degree until a freakish string of injuries over three consecutvie seasons, combined with the fiscal limits Molsons made them work under finally did them in. Andre Savard took over a team with a lot of young players, extra draft picks, and twice the budget to work with, and made some brutal player signings of aging Francophone journeymen and a few of his old buddies from Ottawa. The teams he managed didn't have 1/10 the injuries to deal with that Houle and Trembley had to, either. 10 OT Games, they made the Playoff in 04 and lost to the Bruins in 7 when Roy had an apendicitis for 2 games. They missed the playoffs in 95 in a strike shortened season, they probably would have made it otherwise. Houle did not take over a shambles of a team, he took over a team that still had most of the core of the 93 champs. Are you related to Rejean Houle? He made shortsighted decisions that cost us the greatest goaltender of all time and our captain for an average NHL goalie and two journeyman players. We just got more back for Rivet probably than he got back for ROY! Glorifying the Houle years??? The board has reached an all time low I guess turning this: Pierre Turgeon Vincent Damphousse Mark Recchi Saku Koivu Patrick Roy Patrice Brisebois Brian Savage Benoit Brunet Darcy Tucker Craig Conroy Craig Rivet Valeri Bure Vladimir Malakhov into this: Koivu Petrov Zednik Rucinsky Linden Kilger Zubrus Markov Bulis Poulin Souray Zholtok Lind Is something that we should really appreciate and not ridicule! Nonsense Edited February 26, 2007 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I'm pretty sure that Souray is in play, and I don't think it has anything to do with the standings or tonight's game. It all depends on what is offered in return. Hopefully a dynamic has been set in motion, particularly in the Western Division, where teams who haven't made a deal to strengthen their team for the playoffs now feel compelled to do so because of what their competitors are doing. Last week Gainey said that he was waiting t oget closer to the deadline to see if we'll be buyers or sellers. If we lose tonight our playoff hopes take a serious blow. But if we win we'll be right in the thick of things and it MIGHT convince Gainey to hang on to him for a playoff run. If I were Bob I would trade him either way. My guess would be Souray for Mitera, 1st + body to play D for the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 My feeling is that a deal is already done for Souray, to all intents and purposes, but that Gainey wants to use him in this key game against a divisional opponent fighting for the same playoff spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 (edited) What if you keep him and then miss the playoffs (which may very well happen)? What if you trade him and miss the playoffs? What if you trade him to a bubble team, and they make the playoffs, while Montreal falls out of the race? What if, what if, what if. We can all agree that Gainey isn't a panicky guy, he's not gonna make a deal just to make a deal. If he could get a quality center for Souray, I think he'd do it. But you have to admit that it's a pretty high risk proposition when you take in the fact that the powerplay drives offense of the team (3 PP goals out of 5 tonight vs TOR). You're better off with the devil you know than the devil you don't know. If I'm a GM and I had a deal for Souary done, there's no way in hell he'd have played tonight. As soon as terms were agreed to, that player is mine, and I don't want him getting a serious injury playing for someone else. There's even been instances where players have been pulled of the ice during games because they've been dealt. My guess would be Souray for Mitera, 1st + body to play D for the end of the year. Who? Edited February 27, 2007 by RobRock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 If we keep a MEDIOCRE team together in the hope of making a magical Cup run, and then lose Souray for nothing, the organization suffers a net loss in assets. That will make it harder even to sustain the current level of medicority the following year and into the future. Ya, trading off assests instead of trying to make the playoffs would definitely send the right message to get more UFA's to sign with the Habs. No worries UFA's aboot getting stuck in Montreal, if the Habs are 4 points out of 4th place come trade deadline you and your family will be moved to the highest bidder. Trading Souray is just stupid. The Laffs arent considering trading Sundin and they just resigned Tucker. Do you pro dump people have any idea why this years asking prices for rentals is so steep? This years draft is so-so. The last few years we have all been treated with some of the deepest drafts in the last 20 years. This years draft is back to regular, if that. Philly doesnt want Souray, and nobody elses pick would be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathieu30 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Philly doesnt want Souray, and nobody elses pick would be worth it. LA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iron Lung Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 You guys have to stop looking behind you. Always so pessimistic. We're only 4 points out of 4th and you want us to sell the farm! Every team slumps during the season for a period of time and we just had our slump. Now we're back on track. This is virtually the same team that was 5th in the NHL two months ago and everyone was soooo excited. Have some faith for once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 If a deal comes along that makes sense then you make the move. Souray is not untouchable. If San Jose offered Steve Bernier and a 1st rounder for Souray and you were the GM you would not listen? You do what you have to do to make this team better, not for 20 games, but for the future. and no more Aebischer pleeeeease. God he is terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 If a deal comes along that makes sense then you make the move. Souray is not untouchable. If San Jose offered Steve Bernier and a 1st rounder for Souray and you were the GM you would not listen? Nope, I wouldnt even reply to the fax offer. Souray is basically untouchable. Sure, he would be moved if the right deal comes along. However, like thats going to happen. What trade so fas has involved existing players for a rental? I mean real existing players, who are high quality players. All the deadline trades so far were to pick up players to help make a team better, so they dont give away existing talent off of their rosters who would actually make an impact. No GM is going to give up existing players talented enough off of their team to make it worth ditching Souray. I completely agree with The Iron Lung. I think its pathetic so many people want to ditch Souray. It's a sad sad day for the Habs when Laff fans know better than to trade their most important players cuz they could get useless picks for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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