Chris Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Hey CC, obviously we don't agree on much but i did say replace those players with talented youth, you gave the examples of Vhipchura and Murray which is fine but i think we know i was more talking about grabovski and Kosty and maybe in little kosty. As for hard workers teams that work hard overachieve and overcome talent by hard work. So yes i would rather have a hard working team then the crap that has been on the ice for the 5 years. See the NY Islanders, oh wait there hard workers beat the great and talented habs team and made the playoffs. What has all the talent of Koivu, Kovalev, Ryder, Samsonov brought to the team? Nothing but early tee times. As for the + - being over rated i totally disagree again, it says alot about the team on the ice and who is doing what. Tom preising from Ottowa had a better plus minus then the entire habs combined. Oh wait, that team is in the playoffs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 What about guys like Miroslav Satan and Alexei Yashin on the Island? They're not exactly known for their work ethic, they're known more for their skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 What about guys like Miroslav Satan and Alexei Yashin on the Island? They're not exactly known for their work ethic, they're known more for their skills. Not to mention Kozlov. And two of their "hard-working" guys are Sean Hill and Brendan Witt. One was on steroids and the other has a bit of a reputation as a cheap shot artist, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) Hey CC, obviously we don't agree on much but i did say replace those players with talented youth, you gave the examples of Vhipchura and Murray which is fine but i think we know i was more talking about grabovski and Kosty and maybe in little kosty. As for hard workers teams that work hard overachieve and overcome talent by hard work. So yes i would rather have a hard working team then the crap that has been on the ice for the 5 years. See the NY Islanders, oh wait there hard workers beat the great and talented habs team and made the playoffs. What has all the talent of Koivu, Kovalev, Ryder, Samsonov brought to the team? Nothing but early tee times. As for the + - being over rated i totally disagree again, it says alot about the team on the ice and who is doing what. Tom preising from Ottowa had a better plus minus then the entire habs combined. Oh wait, that team is in the playoffs too. Look, the point is not to dump the talent we do have, but rather to build on it with better talent. Get a real #1 C in here and suddenly nobody will be complaining about Koivu (which they shouldn't be doing anyway). Ryder is what he is, a 30 goal scorer with the characteristic limitations of the breed. You don't win by replacing 30 goal scorers with 15 goal scorers - or, as per your proposal, with completely unproven youngsters. However, I'm not defending Samsonov or Kovalev (although I still think that it's deeply disturbing to be throwing away TWO players of such elite talent). The +/- is a meaningful stat, but jettisoning players because they had awful +/- THIS ONE SEASON is stupid. Koivu's never been close to -25 in his career before, and neither has Ryder. Those stats are aberrant in terms of these players' histories. Using that stat to justify replacing them with plumbers (or, again, rookies who are almost as likely to bomb out as to succeed) is just panic. I come back to my original argument that Johnson is easier to replace than a Koivu or a 30-goal scorer. It's just common sense. Edited May 3, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I'd be happy to have him back, at a discount of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I would take Johnson back but not for more than 2 years or more than th 1.9 he was making. He is a vereran who got along well with Markov (as they were seen hanging out in Montreal a few times) also he can be offensive. I hope Bonk is not back becuase I hope the Canadiens play less defense next year and worry less about line matching. I hope Carbonneau makes other teams try to shut down the Canadiens speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 The Islanders you guys mentioned were known for there skills but Nolan made them work in all 3 zones and they did it. Several of them were benched when they didn't. My point is talent is fine, but with no work ethic, physical play you get the Habs the last 5 years. If anyone is impressed by what that has brought you have low standards. Theo was the ONLY reason the team has made it past the first round in what 10 or 11 years. As JMMR stated about the Habs speed, i really don't think the team is all that fast. I only think Higgins, Pleks, Dandy have great speed. Perez is quick but other then that i wouldn't say anyone has alot of speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Why do i want to get rid of Johnson ?? Because of bad signings, especially the UFA signings of Bob. Fact: Kovalev 4.5, Samsonov 3.5, Ryder 2.2 and Koivu 4.8 eat 15 millions. Just to get rid of Samsonov it will cost 2.5 million this year and on cap money 1.5million in the two years after that. So basically this year we have to fill a hole of 4 million with something. Where do you take this money?? With the middle range waste of money. First by not signing back Unresticted except Markov. Dandenault 1.7, Bouillon 1.8, and Ryder 2.2+ are bait for a trade for a reliable right D like Aucoin. If you want to get rid of Kovalev it's even worse. Our dream of a big center will still be a dream. OMG!!! how could you backbeat yourself so badly... *ramblings about how BG is so bad* then: *If I was BG I would* -> trade for one of the worse UFA signing in the past few years... Fact: All's left in Aucoin is a HUGE contract and a big mouth in the locker room... No shot, no passing, no skates, no toughness... and glass shoulders... and glass knees... Aucoin = DAMAGED GOOD Bravo for the feat of losing all your credibility on your own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) Um, how was Johnson a bad acquisition? BOb flips Zed to Washington and gets a 3rd pick and then sends a 4th pick to Phoenix for Johnson. Johnson was making 1.9 million. NOT TOO SHABBY The cap hit on Sammy is 1.2 million in year 1 and another 1.2 hit in 2009. Edited May 3, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I would take Johnson back but not for more than 2 years or more than th 1.9 he was making. He is a vereran who got along well with Markov (as they were seen hanging out in Montreal a few times) also he can be offensive. I hope Bonk is not back becuase I hope the Canadiens play less defense next year and worry less about line matching. I hope Carbonneau makes other teams try to shut down the Canadiens speed. I'd sign him for more $ if it's 1year, then less for 2, and even less for 3... e.g. 3 years @ 1.2M or 1 year @ 2.2M We NEED him to babysit Chipchura, Lapierre, Perezhogin, Dagostini, Milroy, Ferland, etc.... Whoever else will be playing on our 3rd line. We don't need 10 guys like him... we just need HIM. One guy to stabilise that 3rd line filled with rookies. Why him??? Cause he's the best. While the whole team was struggling 5 on 5, Johnson was one of the best scorer 5 on 5 (a bit behind... Samsonov, the leader 5 on 5 ) and ended the season being a + 6 and that, while playing AGAINST THE OPPOSITION's BEST ASSETS!!! and that, while playing IN THE MOST CRITICAL SITUATIONS!!! (defending leads, etc...) We don't need to keep Bonk, we don't need to keep a lot of guys, heck, I'd even agree to let go of Michael Ryder (easily replaceable by Kost, Kost, Perez or whoever else!)... But MJ does all the little things and more... Didn't you notice that OF ALL PEOPLE, MJ was the guy being called up to the 1st line in critical situations (either drastical lineup shakeup... or "critical situations") MJ is our 2nd most versatile player after Mark Streit. MJ is one of our best PK guy MJ is our best offensive guy who has a primary defensive role MJ is our representative toward the NHLPA (leadership role) MJ is one of our only North American VETERAN (unless you think Higgins is a veteran) etc... The guy is a keeper, he's a hard worker and he's durable, he could play another 5 years on our 3rd line with no worry. Oh, and the guy LOVES to play for Montreal... ie. UFA Magnet! Um, how was Johnson a bad acquisition? BOb flips Zed to Washington and gets a 3rd pick and then sends a 4th pick to Phoenix for Johnson. Johnson was making 1.9 million. NOT TOO SHABBY The cap hit on Sammy is 1.2 million in year 1 and another 1.2 hit in 2009. Call me crazy, but Sammy only has one year left : I would TRY HIM AGAIN next season... Maybe he's biting his hand so hard this summer that he's gonna be a whole new player for the habs next season... AND IF IT DOESNT WORK just send him down to Hamilton... without any effect on the cap!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Bouillon, Dandenault, Souray, and Begin are all North American veterans... however much that really matters in the makeup of a team. Our RW looks like this right now: Ryder Kovalev Kostitsyn While our LW is: Higgins Latendresse Perezhogin Begin Signing a vet like Johnson would make it very hard for a rookie to crack the lineup, especially if we add a UFA center. And if that UFA center is not an improvement on Bonk (ie can't land that star), we have the same forward lineup next year as last. So it would become imperative that we make a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Also remember, If i am not mistaken Ryder is a UFA this year and may sign elsewhere. So johnson is a perfect fit for Chipchura to play with. Very similar styles and smarts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Also remember, If i am not mistaken Ryder is a UFA this year and may sign elsewhere. So johnson is a perfect fit for Chipchura to play with. Very similar styles and smarts. Ryder is a RFA this year, but can be UFA next year if he only signs a 1 year deal. The question with Ryder now is if we want, and can, sign him to a long term deal this summer. If we can't or won't, we probably should trade him this summer like Havlat in Ottawa last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 Thanks for the info, i thought last years deal made him UFA this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 (edited) Call me crazy, but Sammy only has one year left Cap hits are the remainder of the contract at 33% of the cost times 2 of the years remaining. So, if Kovy needed to be bought out with 2 years remaining on his contract it would become a 4 year cap hit (2 years mult by 2). So for Sammy it would be 2 years of a hit to resolve a 1 year term. Sammy = 3.6 (I rounded up) 3.6 mult by 33% = 1.18 million. 1 year remaining = 2 years of a cap hit at 1.18 per year PS. I know the percentile is a little off. Because the Gazette reported the hit = 1.2 million per year for Sammy. Edited May 3, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I would take Johnson back but not for more than 2 years or more than th 1.9 he was making. He is a vereran who got along well with Markov (as they were seen hanging out in Montreal a few times) also he can be offensive. I hope Bonk is not back becuase I hope the Canadiens play less defense next year and worry less about line matching. I hope Carbonneau makes other teams try to shut down the Canadiens speed. I would keep him too... for all the reasons mentioned above... I'd sign him for more $ if it's 1year, then less for 2, and even less for 3... e.g. 3 years @ 1.2M or 1 year @ 2.2M We NEED him to babysit Chipchura, Lapierre, Perezhogin, Dagostini, Milroy, Ferland, etc.... Whoever else will be playing on our 3rd line. We don't need 10 guys like him... we just need HIM. One guy to stabilise that 3rd line filled with rookies. Why him??? Cause he's the best. While the whole team was struggling 5 on 5, Johnson was one of the best scorer 5 on 5 (a bit behind... Samsonov, the leader 5 on 5 ) and ended the season being a + 6 and that, while playing AGAINST THE OPPOSITION's BEST ASSETS!!! and that, while playing IN THE MOST CRITICAL SITUATIONS!!! (defending leads, etc...) We don't need to keep Bonk, we don't need to keep a lot of guys, heck, I'd even agree to let go of Michael Ryder (easily replaceable by Kost, Kost, Perez or whoever else!)... But MJ does all the little things and more... Didn't you notice that OF ALL PEOPLE, MJ was the guy being called up to the 1st line in critical situations (either drastical lineup shakeup... or "critical situations") MJ is our 2nd most versatile player after Mark Streit. MJ is one of our best PK guy MJ is our best offensive guy who has a primary defensive role MJ is our representative toward the NHLPA (leadership role) MJ is one of our only North American VETERAN (unless you think Higgins is a veteran) etc... The guy is a keeper, he's a hard worker and he's durable, he could play another 5 years on our 3rd line with no worry. Oh, and the guy LOVES to play for Montreal... ie. UFA Magnet! I was agreeing with everything you said Alexstream, until you suggested keeping Sammy. Keep Johnny, lose Sammy... I don't care if we can send him to Hamilton with no cap hit. Sammy in Montreal = soap opera = distraction = GONE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFT77 Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Would like to see Johnson stay. Solid two-way player that is one of the Habs best penalty killers. Would score more if given that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Would like to see Johnson stay. Solid two-way player that is one of the Habs best penalty killers. Would score more if given that role. plus he is right shot... !! follow Buffalo's lead right shooters right shooters!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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