Line-up I'd like to see in Oct.

[revin5]

The Habs need size, grit and hard working players. The formula has been the same for decades, 2 offensive lines, checking grinding line, and a energy tough guy line. All the top teams are built like this or very similar.

Except the Sabres. The reason they lost to the Sens? Defense. Redden, Volchenkov, Phillips, Meszaros. It has a lot to do with the fact that any shot that goes near Volchenkov bounces off of him. Corvo and Preissing are liabilities defensively, so they don't really count in that. The team I want to see will be built like the Sabres offensively and the Senators defensively. Sounds tough, but it really isn't all that hard.

Sabres offense: built on speed and non-stop attack. Every line can score, so the other team can't play around that one top line. I've already shown some line combinations that would make it possible to do this here.

Send defense: positional play and not letting opponents get clear shots.

Redden: superb defensively and offensively. (Markov)

Volchenkov: hits alot and hard, blocks any shot that goes near him.

Phillips: plays superb defensive positioning.

Meszaros: positioning.

Corvo: he's basically a point shot and that's it. (Souray)

Preissing: classic offensive-defensemen. (Streit)

Schubert: utility man D/W. (Dandenault)

We've still got Komi and Bouillon. but they don't match up against any of those players. I like Bouillon, but he doesn't play a sound enough game to match up to even Meszaros (I think he can, but he didn't this year, if he could bouncec back, maybe). Komi is a half-and-half version of Phillips and Meszaros. His positional play was far better this year than the last, and he hit everything he saw. He also blocked alot of shots, but not nearly close to Volchenkov. We don't know enough about Jorges to even classify him, but we must have someone in our organization (Jorges, or Cote, or O'Byrne, or Emelin, or Jancevski) who can step into the role that Meszaros is playing (hopefully). After that, we need to get rid of Bouillon and pick up 1 of either Tom Poti or (performance enhancing drug-abuser)Sean Hill. Neither of them can fill the shoes of Volchenkov, but both will block a lot of shots so it could be possible to create a 'volchenkov effect' by having similar amount of blocked shots on the team, just not concentrated on one wall named Anton. Of course, it's going to hurt a bit if we can't get both Markov and Souray back.

[Chris]

Really, Preising and Corvo both had plus minus' better then the Habs team combined. They are not liabilities.

You shouldn't compare a Great D in the Sens and the Habs. There is no comparison. 105 points, Stanley cup bound. The Habs are golfing and had a 10th place finish.

The Sabres are a tough and gritty team. Obviously not tough or big enough to match the Sens but that'a why they were the best all year. Peters had more fights then the entire Habs team.

[revin5]

Really, Preising and Corvo both had plus minus' better then the Habs team combined. They are not liabilities.

you've never seen them play in their own end I take it.

You shouldn't compare a Great D in the Sens and the Habs. There is no comparison. 105 points, Stanley cup bound. The Habs are golfing and had a 10th place finish.

We're not about to sign the top two D in the league so we can't model our defensive corps after Anaheim and no other team has a defensive corps worth replicating. If we're going to get better than we have to look at what everyone else has. We add a defensive defensemen who can block a lot of shots and suddenly our D will look pretty good.

The Sabres are a tough and gritty team. Obviously not tough or big enough to match the Sens but that'a why they were the best all year. Peters had more fights then the entire Habs team.

Tough and gritty? Sabres? The Islanders are tough and gritty... The Sabres are like ballerinas in comparison. They are a team I would consider the exact opposite of tough and gritty. That's why Peters took 17 fighting majors this season, making sure that they got to play their game and not someone elses. I really like the Sabres, but you've got to be kidding yourself if you can call them either of those two words. They play a game based on speed. Not size, nor toughness. Just speed. Well, playmaking as well... but the speed is what gives them the opening for those crossice passes. Now why did the Sabres lose? You say it was becuase they weren't big or tough enough... I'm going to blame it on the D. Sens D was solid positionally so the Sabres couldn't take advantage too much with their speed (and their forwards are committed to coming back to help) and the Sabres D wasn't. Sabres had Lydman who blocked a hell of a lot of shots but other than that their D were making too many mistakes. That and the Sabres powerplay has been horrible all year. How many shorthanded Sens chances did we see compared to Sabres PP chances? It wasn't a terribly impressive ratio for the Sabres. So yeah, if the Sabres had been bigger and tougher they could have muscled past those Senator defensemen... but they also wouldn't be fast enough to capitalize on any chances. They lost because their D wasn't good enough.

Except for the first game in the series, every game was a low-scoring one-goal difference affair. I guess you would say that the Senators are just too big and tough up front... but we both know that they are speed team just like the Sabres, right? It's all in the D.

Edited May 24, 2007 by revin5

[BTH]

The Sens have an awesome defence, not because their blueline is laced with stars but because they have D depth and players that complement their D partners.

[tokyohabs]

The Blunts 5 on-ice players play as a unit, a bit like the old Russian 70's teams. The reason their D often looks out of position is because, defensively, they are. They are buzzing around up front.

To try and say 'Blunts offense-Sens defense' is like trying to mix apples and oranges. Especially in Blunts' case, you can't separate their fwds from their d-men.

Blunts have 4 lines that attack. Sens have 4 lines that play 2-way (even the top one, to a degree). Both lines relate to their respective d's.

Habs are light years from even modelling on those teams, especially Blunts.

[bombTHEice]

Gainey said he would not make offers to potential free agents Radek Bonk, Mike Johnson, David Aebischer and Aaron Downey before July 1, but that ''we may be interested after.''

CP

So that means that we won't see our best defencive duo, aka Bonk and Johnson, next season? Will we get other help via free agency or trade or can we count on young unproven guys like Lapierre and Chipchura?

I'd like to see that we keep one of Bonk/Johnson for less salary, as the young guys surely could need a defencive first veteran.

[InsaneHABSfan]

So that means that we won't see our best defencive duo, aka Bonk and Johnson, next season? Will we get other help via free agency or trade or can we count on young unproven guys like Lapierre and Chipchura?

I'd like to see that we keep one of Bonk/Johnson for less salary, as the young guys surely could need a defencive first veteran.

Montreal has vets on the team. Time to promote some of the younger outstanding forwards on the farm. Look what guys like Chipchura and Grabs have done with the Dogs so far. Many options for Bob and he has two 1st round draft choices, cap space (Forget Souray, trade Samsonov). Wow, how rich the Habs have become in so short of time.

[bombTHEice]

Yes we have veterans but I can't see Chipchura or Lapierre playing on one of the 2 offencive lines with guys like Koivu. Bégin and Streit are the only ones for the defencive part.

And how should we trade Samsonov without getting back salary? It would be a real wonder if we could deal him for a good return.

[Chris]

Chipchura will take Bonk's spot and Lapierre will center the 4th line. Pleks and Koivu will be the top 2 centers again.

Kiovu defensive part? what are you talking about? He was minus 28 or something.

Also with the Markov signing don't expect Souray or a high priced player coming in. Look for O'Byrne to crack the line up.

Streit or Bouillon should be moved as well.

[bombTHEice]

Higgins, Bégin, Lapierre, etc. all had minus stats but that doesn't say much about their defencive game ... the whole team wasn't that good 5 on 5 last season.

And why should we trade Streit, one of our better forwards in 2007?

[Chris]

Because on a good roster Streit wouldn't be a forward at all, and probably a number 7 D man on a good D core. I like his work ethic but like alot of Habs he is another smurf. The Habs are way too small.

It says alot about a teams roster when one of your best forwards is a defenseman from Switzerland.

[bombTHEice]

He worked very hard for that spot, he deserves to be on this team. It's nothing wrong in my eyes if a converted d-man is one of our better defencive specialists up front ... you say it like it's a joke if we've a guy from Suisse.

Is that team that small, is it really the reason why we've missed the PO's? Just check out the Sabres roster ...

[Chris]

The Sabres are bigger and tougher then the Habs. There defense and forwards are way better as well.

As for Streit, i don't care where he is from and he is a hard worker no question about that. I am saying on a good roster he wouldn't be a forward and a fill in D man that's all. I have nothing against the guy and he certainly earned his ice time compared to numerous others who floated and collected a check.

[ShortHanded]

Chipchura will take Bonk's spot and Lapierre will center the 4th line. Pleks and Koivu will be the top 2 centers again.

Kiovu defensive part? what are you talking about? He was minus 28 or something.

Also with the Markov signing don't expect Souray or a high priced player coming in. Look for O'Byrne to crack the line up.

Streit or Bouillon should be moved as well.

I think Chipper will be on the team next year, like you said, but I think Plex will take Bonk's Spot and Chipper will centrer the 4th. Lappy will end up playing wing is my guess, on either the third or the fourth... and then either Higgs will end up in the 2nd line or Gainey is still going to make a push to sign or trade for a first or second line centre... at least, this is what I hope happens, but realistically Chris, you might be closer to what's actually going to happen because it might be too hard to get that top 2 center...

[alexstream]

So that means that we won't see our best defencive duo, aka Bonk and Johnson, next season? Will we get other help via free agency or trade or can we count on young unproven guys like Lapierre and Chipchura?

I'd like to see that we keep one of Bonk/Johnson for less salary, as the young guys surely could need a defencive first veteran.

Plekanec and Higgins are also good defensive veteran

They're not defense first... but "what if" we finally started to adapt to the new NHL and really started rolling 3 offensive lines.

[Chris]

Shorthanded, Higgins Pleks Kosty was the best line down the stretch once they were put together. I don't think Carbo will break them up.

Yea, i think the line up isn't going to change drastically. I think Samsonov can be traded but for who or what? Souray won't be back. I just don't see Gainey realistically moving the cap up on a team of underacihevers. I said it before, this team is not 1 player away.

Some vets will need to go before BG can sign a big UFA. The Habs have some ridiculous contracts.

[ShortHanded]

Shorthanded, Higgins Pleks Kosty was the best line down the stretch once they were put together. I don't think Carbo will break them up.

Yea, i think the line up isn't going to change drastically. I think Samsonov can be traded but for who or what? Souray won't be back. I just don't see Gainey realistically moving the cap up on a team of underacihevers. I said it before, this team is not 1 player away.

Some vets will need to go before BG can sign a big UFA. The Habs have some ridiculous contracts.

I stand corrected: True about Higgs Pleks Kosty... they did play very well together so they should stay together and they have a good offensive chemistry while still being responsible defensively...

the First line will probably be Koivu and Ryder or whoever Ryder's traded for (I still think they might do it) and, I had hoped Perogie, but now that he's gone, Carbo will either bite the bullet and play Kovy on that line or ... what? who goes there instead???

If Chipper moves up, and Bonk and Johnny are gone, who does he play with. I would have loved to have Chipper centering that line with Johnny on the wing... and then Lappy, Begin on the fourth.

There are so many questions... do you bring up Grabovsky next year and if so, do you play him on the first in place of Kovy, and let Kovy wallow on the fourth? with his attitude he deserves it, but he'll keep poisoning the environment around him unless he's happy. Do you bring up Ferland and let him play with Chipper on the third? They're playing AWESOME together as a shutdown combo in Hamilton, but do you want your shutdown line to have TWO rookies on it? Who's the leader there...

I'm not sure how things will work out, but I think Sammy will be gone and Kovy will still be here, whatever happens...

[Chris]

I agree with you about ryder and kovalev. 1 will be on the RW of Koivu but i think Lats will move up on the left. Ryder can be traded but do you give up a 30 goal scorer for Kovalev? I don't know.

Totally agree about the 3rd and 4th line, Chipchura and Johnson will be good, they need a gritty tough LW to play with them, Torres style.

The 4th line will need a real goon and i'll throw out Dandy as the RW with Begin and Lapierre. He brings speed, forechecking, size and good defensive awareness.

Plus it will open a spot for Obyrne or an UFA.

[alexstream]

This is the lineup if we don't do anything until next september

Kostitsyn Koivu Kovalev

Higgins (XXX) Ryder

(XXX) Plekanec Latendresse

Bégin Lapierre Murray

Markov Komisarek

Bouillon Dandenault

Gorges Streit

with that scenario, these AHLers would chip in :

Chipchura

O'Byrne

Grabovski

with that Scenario... there would definitly be a place for Samsonov... e.g. we put Higgins at center on the 2nd line and play Sammy at LW with Higgins and Ryder. However, this is pure crazyness, since Sammy is as good as gone.

However, there really are a lot of "good" interesting options on the Free agent market.

To name a few decent 2nd line fillers : Guerin, Nylander, Shanny, Selanne, Gomez, Brière, Drury, Smyth (my favorite option), Kariya, Forsberg, Sykora, Bertuzzi, Lang, Handzus, Tkachuk, Kozlov and Zubrus.

If we sign a winger, we can either put Higgins back at center, or keep Plekanec on the 2nd, giving the 3rd line center to e.g. Chip (I'd say it's safer to have Higgins as the 2nd line center)

if we do such a signing, we have less money to sign a D so we might have to forget about Sheldong...

viable options (under 4-5M) : Schneider, Numinnen, Timonen, Stuart, D. Markov, Vishnevsky, Poti, Preissing (my favorite option) and Hannan

(not Rafalski, cause he'll likely sign over 4-5M)

[cfposi]

Ryder can be traded but do you give up a 30 goal scorer for Kovalev? I don't know.

Ryder is an RFA this year. He can technically be let go. Personally my feeling is if we HAVE to keep kovy next year, Ryder will be gone. We can't keep Ryder and give Kovy the ice time he wants. My opinion is that since Kovy is here to stay, Ryder will be the piece we have to give up to make this lineup work next year.

Lats - Koivu - Kovy

Higgs - Pleks - Kost

Lapps - Chips - Streit

Locke - Begin - Samsonov (or Milroy is Sammy is gone)

???

Edited May 29, 2007 by cfposi

[Chris]

You are aware that Kovy had the highest ice time avg for forwards. Even when he was on the 4th line.

Ryder may have flaws but he puts up numbers. Better then Kovalev anyway.

How much more time do you7 want to play Kovy?

Ryder is good trade bait.

[dark_faerie87]

Just a suggestion, but what does everyone think about sending Samsonov to Chicago in exchange for Aucoin and then letting Souray walk?

[Chris]

Garbage traded for Garbage. The Habs don't need Aucoin or Samsonov for that matter.

Look if Detroit is interested something like Bouillon and Samsonov for Lilja or something like that.

[dark_faerie87]

Garbage traded for Garbage. The Habs don't need Aucoin or Samsonov for that matter.

Look if Detroit is interested something like Bouillon and Samsonov for Lilja or something like that.

Generally when you have garbage, you're only going to get garbage back. Anyways, my reasoning was that if we can move Sammy (who will likely never play for us again) for a Souray-like player (a d-man with an awesome point shot), we would then be able to let Souray go and spend his money on someone else, either a centre or another top-4 d-man. My only concern is that Aucoin still has two years left on his contract, so if he ends up being a huge bust too, we'll be right back where we started next off-season. Also, their salaries are pretty similar, only $750K more for Aucoin. I think it's a possibility that should definitely be looked into.

[KEEP26]

Ryder is an RFA this year. He can technically be let go. Personally my feeling is if we HAVE to keep kovy next year, Ryder will be gone. We can't keep Ryder and give Kovy the ice time he wants. My opinion is that since Kovy is here to stay, Ryder will be the piece we have to give up to make this lineup work next year.

Lats - Koivu - Kovy

Higgs - Pleks - Kost

Lapps - Chips - Streit

Locke - Begin - Samsonov (or Milroy is Sammy is gone)

???

you want to give up ryder so we can keep a over paid player.. may be you didnt see the last game of the year and who showed up..we need to clean house and go with the young guys and give them a shot..samsonov and kovy should not even start with the team, they dont want to be their, its time to give them there wish..