Chris Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Well scoring was definitely needed but the biggest problem with the habs is No work ethic. Followed closely by one of the worst defenses assmbled in the NHL. I agree with you on Ryder though, it's tough to complain about your top goal scorer every year. I think the problem is why people want him moved is he is really the only player (that Bg would part with) that would get you something back. No one wants Kovalev, the youth is untouchable, the top 3 D Hamrlk, Markov and Komi are untouchable so who else is there to trade? Teams probably wouldn't pick these leftovers if they were waived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Well scoring was definitely needed but the biggest problem with the habs is No work ethic. Followed closely by one of the worst defenses assmbled in the NHL. I agree with you on Ryder though, it's tough to complain about your top goal scorer every year. I think the problem is why people want him moved is he is really the only player (that Bg would part with) that would get you something back. No one wants Kovalev, the youth is untouchable, the top 3 D Hamrlk, Markov and Komi are untouchable so who else is there to trade? Teams probably wouldn't pick these leftovers if they were waived. bang on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Ok... if Kovy goes back to the top line and if the HPK line stays together, where would Ryder fit if we re-sign him? He's horrible the few times he played on the LW. And he can't play D so we can't put him on the 3rd with Smoke. Anyway, I believe you can't trade a player while he's in arbitration, so we'll have to re-sign him one way or another. Afterwards all bets are off. I'm sure Gainey still has a top-flight forward high on his to-do list. Gotta please Saku. Aside from another top 4 D, we definitely could use a top 3 forward. Right now we basically have the same top forwards as last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) I really feel that Ryder maybe relying on his agent a bit too much. This decision to go to arbitration must be on the advise of his agent. I have a feeling that he will pull the same play from last year and sign before going to full arb., this is a negotiating tactic by his agent. Needless to say I for one have enjoyed his production in scoring goals but would like to see him improve his defensive game just a tad. I hate seeing him with such a crappy plus minus. I'd be willing to consider another one year deal in the range of 2.5-3.1mil max! GO Habs Go! Edited July 6, 2007 by Chips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Who says Kovalev is playing with Koivu? I'd hope that Kovalev could play with either Smoke or Lapierre. It's pretty clear to me that Kovalev and Koivu are incompatible unless it's the playoffs, when Kovalev actually puts aside his selfish attitude and contributes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 I think if we were going to get Marleau it would have happened by now, I say move Ryder for a better winger who has some speed. Ryder is horribly slow and can't pass, really one dimensional like Souray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazer Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Losing the offensive numbers of Ryder and Souray in one summer is fatal, not really sure where to find matching offense in a trade either, I'll go for option 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Who says Kovalev is playing with Koivu? I'd hope that Kovalev could play with either Smoke or Lapierre. It's pretty clear to me that Kovalev and Koivu are incompatible unless it's the playoffs, when Kovalev actually puts aside his selfish attitude and contributes. WHere do you get that from Koivu and Kovalev never played with eachother for a full game at all last season. I hope Carbonneau puts them together for the begining of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Who says Kovalev is playing with Koivu? I'd hope that Kovalev could play with either Smoke or Lapierre. It's pretty clear to me that Kovalev and Koivu are incompatible unless it's the playoffs, when Kovalev actually puts aside his selfish attitude and contributes. WHere do you get that from Koivu and Kovalev never played with eachother for a full game at all last season. I hope Carbonneau puts them together for the begining of the season. The year before, they had little chemistry together and we started to get results when they were seperated... the lines that worked best were: Higgins-Koivu-Ryder Bulis-Ribeiro-Kovalev Perezhogin-Plekanec-Zednik Begin-Bonk-Murray Kovy ended up leading the team in points and Ryder the team in goals. Plus, Higgins and Koivu had mad chemistry then and that 3rd line worked their asses off. Now, we obviously don't have the same lineup, 5 of those 12 guys are gone now and Murray is a bit of an afterthought, but I'm just saying... the Koivu-Kovalev combo didn't work back then (and the Ribs-Ryder one didn't either). I still think our best #1 line would be Higgins-Koivu-Ryder, but we have to find a top 6 combo that really works well at both ends of the ice. Hopefully Latendresse makes a jump offensively, but I still don't see him making a jump defensively. Perhaps a better D group will emerge to help out, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 You do have a point there but when Kovy and Koivu are together with the right winger (Perezhogin was one) they are fantastic. I am not sure who can be that guy next year possibly Latendresse if he goes hard to the net and just creates space for Kovalev and Koivu but I relaly want those two guys playing together and playing a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Familia Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 You do have a point there but when Kovy and Koivu are together with the right winger (Perezhogin was one) they are fantastic. I am not sure who can be that guy next year possibly Latendresse if he goes hard to the net and just creates space for Kovalev and Koivu but I relaly want those two guys playing together and playing a lot. Kovy and Koivu won't mix well. Koivu is too much of a team player for Kovy. Just give Kovy his own line that consists of just him, that's when he'll be his happiest hahah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 You do have a point there but when Kovy and Koivu are together with the right winger (Perezhogin was one) they are fantastic. I am not sure who can be that guy next year possibly Latendresse if he goes hard to the net and just creates space for Kovalev and Koivu but I relaly want those two guys playing together and playing a lot. Kovy and Koivu won't mix well. Koivu is too much of a team player for Kovy. Just give Kovy his own line that consists of just him, that's when he'll be his happiest hahah I get the feeling (or at least I hope) that Kovu will have something to prove this season. I don't think it'll be all about him anymore. Give him top minutes with Saku and he'll hit 30 goals for sure. Now, if only he could stop hitting crossbars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Not sign our leading scorer? Where well we replace the offense? Marleau. a rumour I believe is true Season Totals: 2006-07 77 32 46 78 +9 33 180 17.78 The hold up on the trade is probably Wilson wanting Komi or Higgy's or similar players BOb does not want to part with. I doubt they want Higgins. He is still doing rehab. He hasn't worked out yet this summer and he might get off to a slow start in the season because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 its piss me off that people want to trade ryder and says he ask for to much money, look around the nhl and look at want other player are making that score 30 goals a seaons..ryder as been always under paid...the last game of the year he was one of the only players that showed up, as everyone else on the team sat on there ass..there a reason why his the only player we can trade on the team, bob been got over paid players all over the team, that he cant move or got to sale his soul to move..bob as put us in a bad spot, and he dont want to give the leading goal score the money, to keep him..if ryder gets trade it well go down as another great trade by montreal, where ryder well go and help another team win the cup..as most of the playes ran out of montreal does.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 its piss me off that people want to trade ryder and says he ask for to much money, look around the nhl and look at want other player are making that score 30 goals a seaons..ryder as been always under paid...the last game of the year he was one of the only players that showed up, as everyone else on the team sat on there ass..there a reason why his the only player we can trade on the team, bob been got over paid players all over the team, that he cant move or got to sale his soul to move..bob as put us in a bad spot, and he dont want to give the leading goal score the money, to keep him..if ryder gets trade it well go down as another great trade by montreal, where ryder well go and help another team win the cup..as most of the playes ran out of montreal does.... How many trades have led to other teams winning the cup? 1 the Roy trade can you name any others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneSharpMarble Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 How many trades have led to other teams winning the cup? 1 the Roy trade can you name any others? When Quebec traded their team for a big empty building, that worked out pretty well for Colorado. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 its piss me off that people want to trade ryder and says he ask for to much money, look around the nhl and look at want other player are making that score 30 goals a seaons..ryder as been always under paid...the last game of the year he was one of the only players that showed up, as everyone else on the team sat on there ass..there a reason why his the only player we can trade on the team, bob been got over paid players all over the team, that he cant move or got to sale his soul to move..bob as put us in a bad spot, and he dont want to give the leading goal score the money, to keep him..if ryder gets trade it well go down as another great trade by montreal, where ryder well go and help another team win the cup..as most of the playes ran out of montreal does.... How many trades have led to other teams winning the cup? 1 the Roy trade can you name any others? Whoever the Islanders traded to the Kings for Butch Goring. Goring was a key ingredient in their first Cup drive in 1980. And we may be saying the same thing about the Luongo deal - Kiprussoff too, if the Flames do win. Ryder...let's not go nuts. He's a valuable player. He's not untouchable and he's not worth, like, $4 mil a year. Blaming Bob because he's always been a pain in the ass to sign strikes me as way over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Scott Stevens arbitration ruling was kind of a trade (for Shanahan), NJ & St Louis. Shanahan going to Detroit was huge. That Lindros trade really set up Colorado as much as the Roy trade did. Joe Nieuwendyk for Jarome Iginla was another big one. Trades usually have a far bigger impact than free agent signings for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 its piss me off that people want to trade ryder and says he ask for to much money, look around the nhl and look at want other player are making that score 30 goals a seaons..ryder as been always under paid...the last game of the year he was one of the only players that showed up, as everyone else on the team sat on there ass..there a reason why his the only player we can trade on the team, bob been got over paid players all over the team, that he cant move or got to sale his soul to move..bob as put us in a bad spot, and he dont want to give the leading goal score the money, to keep him..if ryder gets trade it well go down as another great trade by montreal, where ryder well go and help another team win the cup..as most of the playes ran out of montreal does.... How many trades have led to other teams winning the cup? 1 the Roy trade can you name any others? here two playes that was ran out of montreal, and went on to help other teams to win a cup chelios, recchi, my point was we seen alot of guys run out of montreal and went on to play great hockey for other teams, i just dont want the same happen with ryder..their really somthing weird going on because no one want to play in montreal. the guy with the best plus/minus last season perezhogin just left and didnt want to play thier.. our best goal score in the last 10 years gets treat like shit...i just dont like where the team is going in the last few years, and its time to get playes with heart like ryder did in the last game of the year.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch_Habs_Fan Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 When will the hearing, or whatever its called be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 our best goal score in the last 10 years gets treat like shit...i just dont like where the team is going in the last few years, and its time to get playes with heart like ryder did in the last game of the year.. I don't see how he is getting treated like shit. As has been shown previously in this thread, he has gotten significant raises each negotiation. I don't necessarily fault the guy for playing tought at the negotiating table, but I think your statements are hyperbolic at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) its piss me off that people want to trade ryder and says he ask for to much money, look around the nhl and look at want other player are making that score 30 goals a seaons..ryder as been always under paid...the last game of the year he was one of the only players that showed up, as everyone else on the team sat on there ass..there a reason why his the only player we can trade on the team, bob been got over paid players all over the team, that he cant move or got to sale his soul to move..bob as put us in a bad spot, and he dont want to give the leading goal score the money, to keep him..if ryder gets trade it well go down as another great trade by montreal, where ryder well go and help another team win the cup..as most of the playes ran out of montreal does.... How many trades have led to other teams winning the cup? 1 the Roy trade can you name any others? here two playes that was ran out of montreal, and went on to help other teams to win a cup chelios, recchi, my point was we seen alot of guys run out of montreal and went on to play great hockey for other teams, i just dont want the same happen with ryder..their really somthing weird going on because no one want to play in montreal. the guy with the best plus/minus last season perezhogin just left and didnt want to play thier.. our best goal score in the last 10 years gets treat like shit...i just dont like where the team is going in the last few years, and its time to get playes with heart like ryder did in the last game of the year.. Yes, hyperbolic. Chelios and Recchi were not *run out of Montreal,* they were traded. A stupid trade is not the same thing as riding someone out of town on a rail. And you can't be terrified of trading players away because they might suddenly get better playing for other teams. That can happen - take Phil Esposito or, God help us, John LeClair - but if, for example, Bob could get Marleau back by packaging Ryder, I'd drink to his health instead of being terrified that Ryder will somehow explode into the new Brett Hull. As for people not wanting to play in Montreal, there may be some truth to that, but then again Hamrlik, Markov, Koivu, Kovalev, Smolinski, Johnson and plenty of others do want to play here. One thing's for sure - if we grossly overpay every single player on our team in a cap system, it won't be long before we're back to finishing close to last overall, in which case even fewer players will want to come here. The Ryder thing, like the Souray thing, is just business. He wants lots and lots of money and probably would rather be in Toronto. The Habs have a view of his value and don't want to overpay for a middling-calibre one-dimensional goal scorer. Big deal. Edited July 9, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Familia Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 My post about trades that resulted in winning a cup was only in reference to the Canadiens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 its piss me off that people want to trade ryder and says he ask for to much money, look around the nhl and look at want other player are making that score 30 goals a seaons..ryder as been always under paid...the last game of the year he was one of the only players that showed up, as everyone else on the team sat on there ass..there a reason why his the only player we can trade on the team, bob been got over paid players all over the team, that he cant move or got to sale his soul to move..bob as put us in a bad spot, and he dont want to give the leading goal score the money, to keep him..if ryder gets trade it well go down as another great trade by montreal, where ryder well go and help another team win the cup..as most of the playes ran out of montreal does.... How many trades have led to other teams winning the cup? 1 the Roy trade can you name any others? here two playes that was ran out of montreal, and went on to help other teams to win a cup chelios, recchi, my point was we seen alot of guys run out of montreal and went on to play great hockey for other teams, i just dont want the same happen with ryder..their really somthing weird going on because no one want to play in montreal. the guy with the best plus/minus last season perezhogin just left and didnt want to play thier.. our best goal score in the last 10 years gets treat like shit...i just dont like where the team is going in the last few years, and its time to get playes with heart like ryder did in the last game of the year.. Recchi and Chelios? Chelios was traded in 1990 and won a cup with Detroit in 2002, 12 years after and with a different team. Recchi was traded in 1999 and won a cup with Carolina in 2006, 7 years after and with a different team. Can somebody explain to me when Ryder reached the level of Roy, Chelios and Recchi? What the hell is going on here? Ryder has 3 60 point seasons on his resume. He was a -25 last year and has a questionable work ethic. People you have to get over Jonas Hoglund scoring 20 goals with the Leafs after he left. Sure the Habs have traded players who have excelled with other teams, but Roy, Chelios, Recchi, Desjardins, Schneider, Corson, Lemiuex and Damphousse were great players before they were traded. Of course they would excel in their new surroundings. Leclair was on the verge and it was a dumb trade. But Michael Ryder? He is a nice NHL player who finished behind 80 other players in scoring last season. If he excels with his new team good for him. See you later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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