Who would you rather have: Sakic and Forsberg or Yzerman and Shanahan

[markierung]

I'm going to have to go with Yzerman and Shanahan.

I think Shanny was the toughest in his prime. Also, i remember Yzerman leading the wings to the cup on one leg, very impressive.

[Pierre the Great]

Forsberg, easily.

He was simply better.

Edited November 24, 2007 by Pierre the Great

[jetsniper]

Even if I wasn't an Avs fan, I'd go with Sakic and Foppa.

It's not even a contest. Sakic and Yzerman are basically equals while Foppa is 10x better then Shanny.

[MAK]

tough call...

I think I'll go with steve Yzerman for longevity.

I had a shanahan Devils jerzey growing so...

Edited November 25, 2007 by marky_and_komi

[Mils]

I'm extremely biased against the Dead Things and in favor of the Avs. And that's ok.

The answer to this question is one of timing. From about 2002 or so until the end of his career, Yzerman was playing on one leg because of knee troubles. During that time, I'd go with Sakic and Forserg easily. However, between 2000 and 2003, Forsberg was injury riddled. Wrist, ankle, charlie horse, concussions, and spleen. During that time, I'd probably go with Yzerman and Shanahan.

If we're trying to decide who we would rather have when they were in their primes, it's a difficult question, but I think it's Sakic and Forsberg's to lose, and Shanahan can't overcome Forsberg.

Yzerman and Sakic are roughly equivalent. When it's all said and done, they were very good players for over 20 years. Sakic is a better shooter (wrist shot), but Yzerman was probably the better pure scorer. They were both excellent playmakers, and 2 of the most respected leaders of their era. (I would argue that they are #1A and #1B.) If Sakic finishes the 07-08 season, and plays 2 more (he wants to play in the 2010 olympics in his home province), he would retire after the 09-10 season, and probably finish with comparable stats to Yzerman. Yzerman: GP-1514, G-691, A-1063. Sakic (As of the beginning of this season): GP-1319, G-610, A-979.

At Sakic's current clip, if he played all 82 games of this season, the next one, and 09-10, his final career numbers would look like this: GP- 1565, G-723, A- 1161. Now, since he probably won't play every game every season, and his production will likely fade, it is not unreasonable to think that his final numbers will look very similar to Yzerman's.

Sakic and Yzerman are a wash. They're practically the same player. They're both excellent, and first-ballot hall of fame slam dunks.

Now, Forsberg and Shanahan.

This is a tougher comparison becuase Forsberg's career was atypical, and Shanahan has been a consistent contributor throughout the years. Forsberg is sort of lke Barry Sanders, because his game was mind-boggling for a short time. Shanahan is a bit more like Emmit Smith, because he consistently does his thing night to night, year to year.

Forsberg had a 13 year NHL career. in 697 games, he had 248 goals and 623 assists. He was considered one of the best players in hockey, alongside Jaromir Jagr, for some of these years. Forsberg had only two 30 goal seasons, and never had more than 30 in a season. He sat out the entire 2001-2002 season after having his spleen removed and missing most of the 2001 playoffs (the Avalanche won the cup without him.)

Shanahan is a pretty boy punk who found himself in the right place at the right time in Detroit, when he was surrounded by Yzerman, Fedorov, Hull, and Robitaille. Easily one of my least favourite players of all time. Kris Draper and Mike Comrie are right up there. (Don't quote this section and reply to it, I'm just venting my personal frustration with Brendy, not asserting anything as fact. )

But I digress.

Shanahan has played more than twice the number of games that Forsberg has, and that cuts slightly in Shanahan's favor, but Forsberg was still the better player. By analogy: If player A were to come along and play twice as many games as Gretzky, but was still not as good, the fact that he stuck around longer wouldn't tip the scales in Player A's favor. Similar case here. Here are their career numbers as of the end of last season.

Sham-ahan: GP-1417, G-627, A-667, P/G-0.9131 (1294P/1417GP)

Forsberg: GP-697, G-248, A-623, P/G-1.2496 (871P/697GP)

Forsberg is the clear winner. Forsberg was a well-known playmaker, Shanahan is a power forward/sniper. Thus, the desparity in goals should not surprise anyone. (But their goals per game is similar: Shanny-.44 goals/game; Foppa-.35 goals/game) But the assist numbers are a bit surprising. Forsberg has played in fewer than half of the games Shanahan has, but has only 44 fewer assists. 44!!

To put that in perspective, if Forsberg played as many games as Shanahan, he would finish with 1266 assists. That would put him second all-time on the assists list, and he has the third highest assists per game as it is now. .89 A/GP. Behind only Lemieux and Gretzky.

Shanahan is a good player, as hard as it is to admit, and his longevity definitely factors in, but if we're talking about these 4 players when they were healthy and playing their best hockey, then there's no way Shanahan compares to Forsberg.

Forberg and Sakic. (In 2 years, I'll take Sakic and Stastny over Yzerman and Shanny too!! )

[BTH]

I'd take Sakic and Forsberg.

[jetsniper]

Wow Mils, you really went all out there.

[sbhatt]

I'd take Sakic and Forsberg.

[Captain_Stealth]

Neither.

Jan Bulis pwns all of them combined.

[jetsniper]

Neither.

Jan Bulis pwns all of them combined.

It's a duo discussion Vinny, you have to give Bulis a teammate for legit consideration.

[Captain_Stealth]

It's a duo discussion Vinny, you have to give Bulis a teammate for legit consideration.

I knew that but Bulis is so good that he doesn't need a teammate. His teammate can be god. You should know who that is Jets. (Luongo)

As for the actual topic, I love Stevie Y a lot but you gotta go Foppa and Burnaby Joe here.

[Pierre the Great]

well since stealthy brought up bulis no one can forget the greatest duo of all time.

Adam Oates and Brett Hull

Edited November 26, 2007 by Pierre the Great

[jetsniper]

all-time?

Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier would like a word.

[MAK]

all-time?

Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier would like a word.

give him a break he's from st louis !!!

maybe he also thinks that craig janney his better then glenn anderson

[Pierre the Great]

I mean the stats speak for themselves. If we didn't have a crappy owner Adam Oates and Brett Hull would be in this conversation as one of the greatest duo's of all time. seriously.

Oates with the Blues

89-90 80 games 23 goals 79 assists 102 pts

90-91 61 games 25 goals 90 assists 115 pts

91-92 54 games 10 goals 59 assists 69 pts (didn't play because owners wouldn't pay him (idiots) traded to boston)

Brett Hull during this period

89-90 80 games 72 goals 41 assists 113 pts

90-91 78 games 86 goals 45 assists 131 pts (most goals ever by a right winger, and its Hull's career high of course)

91-92 73 games 70 goals 39 assists 109 pts

then after Oates left Hull did poop.

Hull 'n Oates the most lethal combo ever.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Pierre the Great

[Prime Minister Koivu]

This one is close but I have to go with Sakic and Footboy.

[Fanpuck33]

Sakic and Forsberg, without a doubt. I agree with those who say Sakic and Yzerman are equals, with Sakic being the better hockey player, Yzerman the better leader. But then comparing Forsberg and Shanahan, it isn't even close. Shanny was also a good goal scorer, but during stretches of his career, Forsberg was the best player in the world.