An Old Debate

[alexstream]

Tanguay at center?

yes or no?

He's a winger, granted. but he's way more of a center than a guy like Chris Higgins and has played center a lot in the past, although he hasn't played that position at all in the last few seasons.

Also, I've got a pop-quiz question for you :

What do we do on slow days/weeks/months/offseason?

(answer : we find old debates to start over again and again)

[BTH]

Tanguay at centre?

yes or no?

He's a winger, granted. but he's way more of a centre than a guy like Chris Higgins and has played centre a lot in the past, although he hasn't played that position at all in the last few seasons.

Also, I've got a pop-quiz question for you :

What do we do on slow days/weeks/months/offseason?

(answer : we find old debates to start over again and again)

If this is the case then - the Habs sucked in '93, did not deserve the Cup at all!

(Please no one answer that, especially you, Wamsley, I was joking)

I think that Tanguay is our #1 offensive C replacement were Koivu or Plekanec to get injured. If we landed Sundin then calling up Chipchura and bumping everyone up a rank would probably happen before moving Tanguay to centre.

[Wamsley01]

If this is the case then - the Habs sucked in '93, did not deserve the Cup at all!

(Please no one answer that, especially you, Wamsley, I was joking)

I think that Tanguay is our #1 offensive C replacement were Koivu or Plekanec to get injured. If we landed Sundin then calling up Chipchura and bumping everyone up a rank would probably happen before moving Tanguay to centre.

I take it some people don't like my long replies

[lazy26]

I take it some people don't like my long replies

Well I enjoy them, Wamsley.

Tangs could definitely be an option should injuries arise, but I think he is better suited on the wing. The sad truth is that we don't have anyone else that could step up should Pleks or Koivu get hurt.

[Habsfan]

I take it some people don't like my long replies

Nah, we're just having a little fun at your expense!

by the by, i think Tanguay should stay on the wing. He hasn't played at centre in a long while. the guy feels more comfortable on the wing.

If we don't manage to sign "that guy", then our centres will be Koivu, Plex, Lapierre and Chipchura. I'm happy with that!

Edited August 14, 2008 by Habsfan

[saskhab]

Only in an injury pinch would I put him at C. Looks like the new debate is whether we want him playing RW or not:

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/257747.html

While you don't like to mess with success, I'm hoping at some point Andrei Kostitsyn moves to RW and becomes the go to guy on a line. Maybe not this next year, though. I'd prefer to keep Tanguay on LW.

[blaze53]

Put him where he has success?

[CerebusClone]

While you don't like to mess with success, I'm hoping at some point Andrei Kostitsyn moves to RW and becomes the go to guy on a line. Maybe not this next year, though. I'd prefer to keep Tanguay on LW.

Actually, Sergei Kostsitsyn also looked pretty good when playing with Plekanec and Kovalev. This could allow us to built a much stronger second line with Andrei Kostsitsyn alongside Koivu and Tanguay, and thus making better use of Andrei's game breaking abilities, instead of being the "other guy" in Kovalev's shadow.

However, Carbonneau is a little too conservative to break that first line, and for some strange reason, he never really put Andrei Kostsitsyn and Saku Koivu on the same line; even when the team was going nowhere at times over the last two seasons, he prefered the likes of Dandeneault, Begin, Kostopoulos, and Mike Jonhson while never giving that opportunity to neither Kostistsyn nor Perezhogin for that matter.

[saskhab]

Actually, Sergei Kostsitsyn also looked pretty good when playing with Plekanec and Kovalev. This could allow us to built a much stronger second line with Andrei Kostsitsyn alongside Koivu and Tanguay, and thus making better use of Andrei's game breaking abilities, instead of being the "other guy" in Kovalev's shadow.

However, Carbonneau is a little too conservative to break that first line, and for some strange reason, he never really put Andrei Kostsitsyn and Saku Koivu on the same line; even when the team was going nowhere at times over the last two seasons, he prefered the likes of Dandeneault, Begin, Kostopoulos, and Mike Jonhson while never giving that opportunity to neither Kostistsyn nor Perezhogin for that matter.

I like Plekanec with Andrei, actually. The ideal is adding Sundin and putting he and Kovalev on the same line, IMO, then moving Andrei to RW on Plekanec's line with either Sergei or Tanguay (whichever is not on the Sundin line).

Freaking Sundin...

Anyways, yeah, just some thoughts.

[MAK]

if he has a great camp I think that Guillaume could be a great fit to the koivu-tanguay paring !!

he's a natural scorer and he played RW in junior

higgins lapierre and kostopoulos or sergei could make for a more than decent 3rd line

[Athlétique.Canadien]

It's all up to Carbo

[KoZed]

Habs have been looking to get a 1st-line LW for a couple of years now. Samsonov was a flop, Shanny signed with NYR, etc. Last year AK46 sorta took that step up, but how much of it was due to Plex & Kovy?

Enters Tanguay who has played LW for quite some years now. Habs haven't had that kind of quality LW since another Quebecois obtained from an Alberta team (Dampy!).

Thing is, Koivu can't play 1st line minutes anymore. He's a 2nd line C. He should get 2nd line wingers and Tanguay would be sorta wasted there.

I think Tanguay will end up with Plex & Kovy. That line has been missing a set-up man for Kovy, which Tangs can fill. Big #### is too much in the same mold as Kovy.

So AK46 ends up on the 2nd line with Koivu at center and SK74. The brothers showed they could create stuff together.

After that, Carbo has to mix things up a bit. Higgins-Lapierre-Laraque or Latendresse-Higgins-Lapierre or Higgins-Lapierre-Latendresse or maybe even Higgins-Chipchura-Kostopoulos & Latendresse-Lapierre-Laraque...

[alexstream]

Put him where he has success?

In Colorado on Sakic's wing

[CerebusClone]

Habs have been looking to get a 1st-line LW for a couple of years now. Samsonov was a flop, Shanny signed with NYR, etc. Last year AK46 sorta took that step up, but how much of it was due to Plex & Kovy?

Enters Tanguay who has played LW for quite some years now. Habs haven't had that kind of quality LW since another Quebecois obtained from an Alberta team (Dampy!).

True... however the same can be said about Alex Tanguay, who except for his last season in Colorado has always needed a superstar player to put up big numbers whether it was Sakic, Forsberg or Iginla. When he was playing with he injury prone Forsberg, he would go from well over a point-per-game with Forsberg to significantly under that ratio. With Calgary, he put up great numbers playing alongside Iginla, but was mediocre when asked to carry the lead on his own line.

Tanguay can be a 1st-line winger, but you need better players with him on that line. If Kovalev is hot again this season (I hate that our 2 top offensive leaders are such big question marks, one's a gutless wonder while the other one seems fatigued and unmotivated), that sure could be a possibility.

As for Kostsitsyn, he could emerge as a better player, but for now he's young and inexperieced, so we'll have to see how he progresses this season. Anyways there are a few possibilities, and finally they're all very interesting (no more trying a Chad Kilger on the top line, or relying on some average shooter like Savage or Zednik to score goals).

S.Kostsitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev

Tanguay-Koivu-A.Kostsitsyn

A.Kostsitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev

Tanguay-Koivu-Latendresse

Tanguay-Plekanec-Kovalev

(S.Kost/Latendresse)-Koivu-A.Kostsitsyn

All these possibilities are interesting, and that's assuming Higgins will play on the third line, and ignoring the possibility that a guy like Pacioretty could force his way into the lineup at some point during the regular season (but he should start in Hamilton). I just hope Carbonneau will come to camp with an open mind about his lines... but unfortunately he isn't, and already said he has no intention of brwaking up the Kovalev line.

[Habsfan]

I just hope Carbonneau will come to camp with an open mind about his lines... but unfortunately he isn't, and already said he has no intention of brwaking up the Kovalev line.

Dude, quit the whining about Carbo. The guy was nominated for a Jack Adams in just his second year, and that still isn't good enough for you? Do you really believe you know more about coaching than he does?

I agree that Carbo made some mistakes in his first year, but who doesn't make mistakes at their first year of anything? Last year, i thought he improved quite a bit.

[Fanpuck33]

I just hope Carbonneau will come to camp with an open mind about his lines... but unfortunately he isn't, and already said he has no intention of brwaking up the Kovalev line.

Nor should he break it up.

[CerebusClone]

Dude, quit the whining about Carbo. The guy was nominated for a Jack Adams in just his second year, and that still isn't good enough for you? Do you really believe you know more about coaching than he does?

I agree that Carbo made some mistakes in his first year, but who doesn't make mistakes at their first year of anything? Last year, i thought he improved quite a bit.

First, Carbonneau did say himself that he doesn't want to break the Kovalev line. It's just something that I haven't liked from his during his first 2 season: he comes to camp with his lineup already made up (with room for maybe one minor change), and sticks to it no matter what, without even testing different line combinations during training camp, which to me is what camp is for.

Carbonneau has his qualities and his strenghts, but are you telling me that he's an open-minded, creative, risk taking king of guy? I don't think so, he's more the kind to stick to what has worked (even temporarily) in the past, like the Higgins-Koivu-Ryder first line, until it's almost too late, and had no choice, but to try something new.

ps. This is not criticism against Carbonneau, but any idiot can be nominated for the Adams if his team causes a "surprise" (which to me it wasn't last season); it has nothing to do with the quality of coaching, but rather has become a chance for so-called experts to make amends for not seing the potential in a team, and to give themselves an excuse for their terrible predictions.

Did Bruce Boudrault really implement a very effective system, or did the dominant play of Alex Ovechkin combinated to the fact that the team played with the adrenaline rush of having their back to the wall during the entire season under their new coach have made him look a lot better than he was? If the Capitals have a decent season, nothing comparable to their success in the second half, will that mean that Boudrault has become a lesser coach?

Same for Vigneault the year before. His team as a whole underachieved and didn't play great, but the team had great sucess because of the dominant play of Roberto Luongo and the Sedin twins (and the surprising Bieska) who lead the team to first in the division. This was a bit surprising, so Vigneault got the Adams...

[CerebusClone]

Nor should he break it up.

Why not? Because it's the only thing holding the team at this point (although it didn't work in the playoffs)? What if we can find a way to make that duo as effective with a different winger (ex. Tanguay, S.Kostsitsyn, or maybe even Latendresse) while creating the same kind of "magic" with another duo (ex. Koivu and A.Kostsitsyn) on the second line?

All I was saying is that it's stupid to not even try different combinations while we can (training camp); otherwise if that line loses its touch, we'll have to make all those trials during regular season games, which could lead to a coslty losing streak like two years ago.

[Habsfan]

First, Carbonneau did say himself that he doesn't want to break the Kovalev line. It's just something that I haven't liked from his during his first 2 season: he comes to camp with his lineup already made up (with room for maybe one minor change), and sticks to it no matter what, without even testing different line combinations during training camp, which to me is what camp is for.

Haven't you ever heard of the experession "Don't mess with a good thing"? Well that first line of ours was a damn good thing. Why ###### it up? I see no problems with keeping the first line together. The other 3 lines have not been decided yet. Carbo said this week(on Wednesday) at the Golf tournament he was at in Montreal.

ps. This is not criticism against Carbonneau, but any idiot can be nominated for the Adams if his team causes a "surprise" (which to me it wasn't last season); it has nothing to do with the quality of coaching, but rather has become a chance for so-called experts to make amends for not seing the potential in a team, and to give themselves an excuse for their terrible predictions.

I disagree. A coach has to find a way to not only come up with the right decision, but he has to motivate his players.

Did Bruce Boudrault really implement a very effective system, or did the dominant play of Alex Ovechkin combinated to the fact that the team played with the adrenaline rush of having their back to the wall during the entire season under their new coach have made him look a lot better than he was?

I think he did. Before Boudrault showed up, the Caps were going nowhere. True that Ovechkin played well, but you can't discount Boudrault's contribution to the teams success. IF the Caps can reamin a competitive team this year(ie: make the playoffs) i think it wil prove that Boudrault is a good coach and derserved his Adams nomination.

[CerebusClone]

I disagree. A coach has to find a way to not only come up with the right decision, but he has to motivate his players.

I agree that's part of being a good coach, but did Vigneault go from best coach in the NHL (he won the Jack Adams) to being a mediocre coach the following season with more or less the same team? In my opinion, the team as a whole didn't play that well, but a few key players (especially Luongo) have been dominant, and carried the team on their shoulders. I fail to see how Vigneault deserved the Jack Adams for that (again, that's my opinion), and why Ted Nolan - whose team played remarkably well that season - was not even nominated.

Similarly, Detroit played a nearly perfect game all troughout the season, pratically everyone on the team over-achieved, and the fact that Babcock wasn't recognized as the best coach last season is beyond me.

Maybe I'm wrong, but looking at the nominees over the last few years, I don't think the selection commitee has spent much time analyzing the quality of work of each coach. It seems to me that they look at the so-called experts predictions from the beginning, and select the coach behind whichever team surprised the most. That doesn't mean they're always wrong - I think Lindy Ruff deserved his nomination as the Sabers played a great game under him (and still do, the results just weren't there this season) - but they take the easy way out...

[BTH]

Getting nominated for the Jack Adams coach means very little. It says more about the team, or even the GM, than the coach in most cases. Carbo was nominated because the Habs were one of the most improved teams and because they exceeded most expectations. He may have been deserving but that never even comes into the equation when they hand out this award.

But that doesn't have much to do with the Kovy line. I wouldn't break that up because there's no real reason to. With Tanguay on board we have enough talent to make a talented second and even third line without breaking up the first one. If we get Sundin as well, I think we'd see them getting split up though. Sundin and Kovalev would probably play together.

[Tony]

Can't wait for pre-season to end these debates (and start news ones

[KoZed]

Can't wait for pre-season to end these debates (and start news ones

I bet Denis has a great training camp while Price & Halak are so-so, sparking the 100th goalie controversy in Habs history just in time for the centennial.

[saskhab]

I bet Denis has a great training camp while Price & Halak are so-so, sparking the 100th goalie controversy in Habs history just in time for the centennial.

Well... both Price and Halak don't have to pass through waivers to get sent to Hamilton.

[CerebusClone]

Well... both Price and Halak don't have to pass through waivers to get sent to Hamilton.

But Denis does... so if Marc Denis goes to Hamilton like planned, he's probably never coming back, just like Jason Labarbera two years ago. Even with an injury to either Price or Halak, the Canadiens probably shouldn't risk losing Denis to waivers (and be responsible for half his NHL salary) to end up with Desjardins as backup, and no one left in Hamilton.

In case of a short term injury, I'm guessing Desjardins would be called up to warm the bench while the other goalie (Price or Halak) starts every game. If it's more serious, we should probably look to sign another veteran... maybe the return of T-Bo, who could help us win the Cup 13 years later after the infamous trade

Edited August 18, 2008 by CerebusClone