Chris Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Screw him then. If he doesn't want to fight for a roster spot, then good ridence. Like alot of other habs Dmen before him, he took the money and ran. Next in line for that is Komi. I guess it looks like: __ Markov Weber Hamrlik Gorges O'turtle is too slow, uncoordinated and soft to be a regular NHL Dman. Maybe it opens up spots for the likes of Subban, Carle, lesser extent Fisher. I hope BG can pull something off to land a good Dman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Maybe it opens up spots for the likes of Subban, Carle, lesser extent Fisher. I hope BG can pull something off to land a good Dman. if there was a way to re-sign Schneider too a lesser salary so he could groom kids like weber, subban, carle and fischer that would be neat. actually I dont know what are the plans for fischer and mcdonagh for that matter. I'm sure one of the two could sign and go to hamilton while the other waits another year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Screw him then. If he doesn't want to fight for a roster spot, then good ridence. Like alot of other habs Dmen before him, he took the money and ran. Next in line for that is Komi. I guess it looks like: __ Markov Weber Hamrlik Gorges O'turtle is too slow, uncoordinated and soft to be a regular NHL Dman. Maybe it opens up spots for the likes of Subban, Carle, lesser extent Fisher. I hope BG can pull something off to land a good Dman. Why are you making him sound like a bad person? Why wouldn't he sign for more money to play in his home country? He gets to stay with his family and friends, make more money, and play in the country you were born in. Tell me you wouldn't do the same thing. Edited June 9, 2009 by ForumGhost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I don't blame the guy for his decision, it's just he said several times i beleive he wanted to play in the NHL. If he said he wasn't sure or wanted to stay in Russia i am fine with that. I have nothing against the guy. I am not sure Shneider is a good mentor, minus 19 with the habs? Not so good. He is a PP specialist at best at this point in his career. I think the habs have to sign Fisher this year, i could be wrong on that one but i believe he has to sign before he is 21 or 3 years of college. I think McDonagh stays 1 more year in Wisconsin. Patera actually had a pretty good first year on a good Michigan team. He is big stay at home D man, better skater then O'Byrne in college. Similar to Komi's forst year in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Fischer doesn't have to be signed until August 15, 2010. The NHL signing rules allow draft picks to finish their education before signing a contract. As for defensive prospects, I wonder if Belle or Benoit are possibilities at all to crack a NHL roster soon. Certainly they possess the mobility that is lacking at the NHL level currently. Obviously right now I'm just looking at Bouillon/Dandy/Breeze replacements, not Komisarek/Schneider ones. Bob bringing Benoit back struck me as curious, especially after two years at a fairly high pro level in Finland and then Sweden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I don't blame the guy for his decision, it's just he said several times i beleive he wanted to play in the NHL. If he said he wasn't sure or wanted to stay in Russia i am fine with that. I have nothing against the guy. Yup. You can't blame him, but I agree with your statement of good riddance. If he's more about the money than playing for the Habs, I have no sadness about not getting him over here. I am not sure Shneider is a good mentor, minus 19 with the habs? Not so good. He is a PP specialist at best at this point in his career. Where exactly did you get this number? He was a -2 on a horrible Habs team and a -10 on an even worse Thrashers team. As long his minutes are limited (i.e. 2nd or 3rd pairing + powerplay), he's still useful if he still wants to play. I think the habs have to sign Fisher this year, i could be wrong on that one but i believe he has to sign before he is 21 or 3 years of college. They have till the summer he graduates/leaves school to sign him. Patera actually had a pretty good first year on a good Michigan team. He is big stay at home D man, better skater then O'Byrne in college. Similar to Komi's forst year in college. Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Who? I think Chris is talking about Greg Pateryn, the prospect we got from Toronto in the Grabovski trade (along with the 2nd rounder which we flipped for Lang). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Patera actually had a pretty good first year on a good Michigan team. He is big stay at home D man, better skater then O'Byrne in college. Similar to Komi's forst year in college. I think Chris is talking about Greg Pateryn, the prospect we got from Toronto in the Grabovski trade (along with the 2nd rounder which we flipped for Lang). or maybe he thinks Pantera could play for montreal soon....they would bring the intimidation factor with them !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Yea, sorry, i didn't know how to spell his name. I read Schneider's numbers on this site somewhere which included the playoff games he played in. (If it's minus 12 that's fine) I still wouldn't resign him. Know one will answer the same question i bring up, why do people want garbage players at a discount? Does that some how make them magically better? If they play like garbage they shouldn't be on the team. I would much rather watch a rookie make mistakes then a 20 year vet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I read Schneider's numbers on this site somewhere which included the playoff games he played in. (If it's minus 12 that's fine) I still wouldn't resign him. Was a -2 in the playoffs, so that's -4 in 27 games as a Hab. During the time span that he was on the team, Markov was a -3, Komi was a -5, and Hamrlik was a -8. As you can begin to see, Schneider was on par with the rest of the team, while providing a significant amount of offense. If the price is right and it's clear the youngsters aren't ready, Schneider can still be a solid contributor if they don't over-use him. No one will answer the same question i bring up, why do people want garbage players at a discount? Does that some how make them magically better? If they play like garbage they shouldn't be on the team. I would much rather watch a rookie make mistakes then a 20 year vet. Price and role play a big part in judging a player. As a 1.875 million a year 5th D-man, Bouillon doesn't cut it and gets criticized. If you bring him back below a million bucks as your 7th d-man, then you have a solid player at a solid value. A better example is Brisebois. As a top pairing, 4 million a year player, he was considered trash. When they brought him back at a much more reasonable price and role, he was seen as a useful player for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Know one will answer the same question i bring up, why do people want garbage players at a discount? Does that some how make them magically better? If they play like garbage they shouldn't be on the team. I would much rather watch a rookie make mistakes then a 20 year vet. Yet you've already completely written off O'Byrne for doing just that. I assume that if Weber finishes the year at -20 he'll be trash as well? I agree in general with your principle of allowing youth to play when vets aren't cutting it, Chris. There's actually a fair bit we see eye to eye on, it just sometimes goes to the extreme in generalizing. We have to work with players at some point through their inconsistencies, and try and make them better. Komisarek can be better than how he was post-injury. Higgins and Plekanec can be much better. O'Byrne can still learn from his terrible year. In general, I agree with the principle of not bringing back any of the guys that are over 30 and UFAs, though. But we have to find younger UFAs/trade for guys to replace some of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I don't think i wrote off O'Byrne, i just don't think his skating and agility will make him an NHLer. I have been wrong before. I certainly give creedit where credit is due. Weber may or may not be a flop, i'll wait to see him for a year. I am certainly not saying 1 or 2 players had a bad season, it was a collective flop in most areas. I just look at some of these guys and wonder why they are being offered contracts, especially high priced ones. I like Komi, but he isn't worth more then 4 mill. Although i am relatively certain a GM not named BG will give him more. I'm sure if Orpik was a UFA, habs fans wouldn't be saying we need to pay 5 mill for that stay at home dman. He is equal to Komi in skill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) I don't blame the guy for his decision, it's just he said several times i beleive he wanted to play in the NHL. If he said he wasn't sure or wanted to stay in Russia i am fine with that. I have nothing against the guy. I am not sure Shneider is a good mentor, minus 19 with the habs? Not so good. He is a PP specialist at best at this point in his career. I think the habs have to sign Fisher this year, i could be wrong on that one but i believe he has to sign before he is 21 or 3 years of college. I think McDonagh stays 1 more year in Wisconsin. Patera actually had a pretty good first year on a good Michigan team. He is big stay at home D man, better skater then O'Byrne in college. Similar to Komi's forst year in college. Was Schnide minus 19 WITH THE HABS, or for the full season? I know he came in with like a minus 19 or something. He seemed better than that to me. Sorry, found the answer in the very next post. I would definitely sign Schnide if the price is right. 2 to 3 million. I was laughed at for saying this before, but he was a catalyst for the team when Lang went down. Edited June 9, 2009 by BCHabnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Yet you've already completely written off O'Byrne for doing just that. I assume that if Weber finishes the year at -20 he'll be trash as well? I agree in general with your principle of allowing youth to play when vets aren't cutting it, Chris. There's actually a fair bit we see eye to eye on, it just sometimes goes to the extreme in generalizing. We have to work with players at some point through their inconsistencies, and try and make them better. Komisarek can be better than how he was post-injury. Higgins and Plekanec can be much better. O'Byrne can still learn from his terrible year. In general, I agree with the principle of not bringing back any of the guys that are over 30 and UFAs, though. But we have to find younger UFAs/trade for guys to replace some of them. I think Higgins and Plek are going to flourish with Martin. They are both very fast, and very good checkers in a wide open team. They should look great with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflhabfan Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 i was thrilled when the habs drafted komi. it was held down here in s. fl. and i got him to sign my son's jersey.i remember telling him to hit the panthers hard when he plays. since then, he has the shadow of lucic hanging over him.makes some highly questionable decisions on defence.if he asks for the moon, let him walk and lets bring up the prospects we are always hearing about, but never see at the nhl level.a well placed elbow to lucic's jaw will even it all out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflhabfan Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I think Higgins and Plek are going to flourish with Martin. They are both very fast, and very good checkers in a wide open team. They should look great with him. the biggest question with higgins is his injury bug. as for plek, he had alot of chances last season, but when he went cold he lost his confidence.he seemed snake bit, which threw off his linemates. perhaps a clean slate will do him good.get off to a good start and everything will take care of itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I think Higgins and Plek are going to flourish with Martin. They are both very fast, and very good checkers in a wide open team. They should look great with him. If they aren't traded before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 the biggest question with higgins is his injury bug. as for plek, he had alot of chances last season, but when he went cold he lost his confidence.he seemed snake bit, which threw off his linemates. perhaps a clean slate will do him good.get off to a good start and everything will take care of itself. That's my thinking. Despite what people say, Pleks is a good, if not great player. His struggles are not due to lack of effort, and he has the skill. Things will fall into place for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 That's my thinking. Despite what people say, Pleks is a good, if not great player. His struggles are not due to lack of effort, and he has the skill. Things will fall into place for him. Yeah, he truly was snake bit last season. He usually seemed to be giving as much or more effort than most, but just couldn't get anything done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Yeah, he truly was snake bit last season. He usually seemed to be giving as much or more effort than most, but just couldn't get anything done. I hope you guys are right. I saw I guy who hesitated to go into traffic and wasn't even very good in the two-way game that is supposed to be his bread and butter. You can spend a lot of energy 'working hard' along the perimeter, but you'll never be effective. Anyway, maybe I'm too pessimistic about him. This season will be decisive for his development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I hope you guys are right. I saw I guy who hesitated to go into traffic and wasn't even very good in the two-way game that is supposed to be his bread and butter. You can spend a lot of energy 'working hard' along the perimeter, but you'll never be effective. Anyway, maybe I'm too pessimistic about him. This season will be decisive for his development. He and Higgins definitely haven't turned out to be the kind of players I thought they would be when they were coming up from the AHL. I definitely think it's been poor development at the highest level. Hopefully Martin can fix it. I don't expect Plekanec to be a #1 centre. Unfortunately, that's what he's been taught to try and be. He needs to be given defensive matchups, penalty kill time, and in general linemates that aren't more skilled than he is, IMO. Plekanec doesn't bring out the best of our top offensive players, we need to find someone who will. He needs to be a support guy. And yes, he does have confidence issues. Remember in 2006-07, he couldn't handle Kovy and Samsonov, got demoted to the 4th line, worked his way out of it and finished strong. The next year, he started briefly on the 3rd line (Grabovski got the Kosty-Kovy combo to start) and worked his way up then as well. He should've been demoted to a checking line again this year, but the Lang and Koivu injuries probably made Carbo feel like he couldn't do that this past year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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