Carey Price

[Wamsley01]

He is right. You guys are all whistling in the dark. This is not a couple of games. He does not look or play like the guy that started out so well.

Neither does the team play or look like the team he started out so well on.

It is not a coincidence that Fleury goes from lost, to Cup winner as the talent around him improved.

He will remain as inconsistent as the effort in front of him because he is not ready to dominate yet.

[Habsfan]

Price did let in a weak goal in the edmonton game(I think it was the 3rd goal), but the Vancouver game was just a nightmare for the whole team. You can NOT blame Price for the loss in Vancouver.

[fromage]

you guys say that Price was rushed into the NHL. I disagree. He dominated every single league he has played in before the NHL. Dominated the WHL, dominated the World Juniors, dominated the AHL playoffs, got MVP awards everywhere. Finally cracks the Habs roster and in his first season, backing up Huet, it looked like he was starving for starts. Since he had a track record of dominating every level of play thus far, they granted it to him. And the rest is history.

I'd like to think no one could foresee Price's faltering after Huet was traded. Price looked very solid backing up Huet.

At least that's my opinion.

Edited October 15, 2009 by fromage

[brobin]

you guys say that Price was rushed into the NHL. I disagree. He dominated every single league he has played in before the NHL. Dominated the WHL, dominated the World Juniors, dominated the AHL playoffs, got MVP awards everywhere. Finally cracks the Habs roster and in his first season, backing up Huet, it looked like he was starving for starts. Since he had a track record of dominating every level of play thus far, they granted it to him. And the rest is history.

I'd like to think no one could foresee Price's faltering after Huet was traded. Price looked very solid backing up Huet.

At least that's my opinion.

I am on record as foreseeing it. Price was not as good as people remembered that year. The team was firing on all cylinders and often won despite average goaltending (Huet or Price). The important issue was having a vet to take the pressure. It is often easy to play great when you have no pressure, but the minute Huet was traded the weight of the world was on him. He did okay for a bit, but eventually things started to go wrong and he didn't have an answer. I preferred them keeping Huet and letting Price start, but alas, that was not the way things went.

Last year, things were going wrong again, but Gainey refused to give the reigns to Halak. Its not that Halak was better, but Price needed to have the pressure off. I am now very worried about how Price handles the tough times this year, which we know are coming. Playing like crap in Montreal is a lot tougher to handle then when it happens in Hamilton. It is even worse when you are hyped to be the next Roy who will carry the team.

At this point, Gainey will have to decide what to do to keep this all together. It might be better to trade Halak and bring in a steady, vet mentor as backup.

[Fanpuck33]

Price did let in a weak goal in the edmonton game(I think it was the 3rd goal), but the Vancouver game was just a nightmare for the whole team. You can NOT blame Price for the loss in Vancouver.

Of course you can't blame Price alone. Giving up 7 goals, though, also obviously means he is not blameless. There was no good reason to send him right back out there the next game.

you guys say that Price was rushed into the NHL. I disagree. He dominated every single league he has played in before the NHL. Dominated the WHL, dominated the World Juniors, dominated the AHL playoffs, got MVP awards everywhere. Finally cracks the Habs roster and in his first season, backing up Huet, it looked like he was starving for starts. Since he had a track record of dominating every level of play thus far, they granted it to him. And the rest is history.

I'd like to think no one could foresee Price's faltering after Huet was traded. Price looked very solid backing up Huet.

At least that's my opinion.

He wasn't necessarily rushed into the league, but they definitely rushed into giving him the #1 job. It's true he was handed a solid Hamilton team and won the Calder Cup with them. Whether or not he deserved to be handed that job doesn't deny the fact that it earned him the backup job behind Huet. He never, however, earned the starting job. Huet clearly outperformed him the first half of Price's rookie season, which included a stint back in Hamilton. The first half of the season, Price was 9-7-3 (that's right, more losses than wins) with a pedestrian 2.93 GAA and a .907 SV%. Huet, in the same time span, was 17-8-5 with a 2.33 GAA and a .922 SV%. I'm not saying Huet is a great goalie or anything, I think the last 2 years have been evidence of that. The fact remains that Price did not deserve to be handed Huet's job at that point in time. Price initially made the decision look brilliant, as he was being driven by the desire to prove the decision correct. Now that the job his clearly his, I don't think he's playing at the same level.

[brobin]

Of course you can't blame Price alone. Giving up 7 goals, though, also obviously means he is not blameless. There was no good reason to send him right back out there the next game.

He wasn't necessarily rushed into the league, but they definitely rushed into giving him the #1 job. It's true he was handed a solid Hamilton team and won the Calder Cup with them. Whether or not he deserved to be handed that job doesn't deny the fact that it earned him the backup job behind Huet. He never, however, earned the starting job. Huet clearly outperformed him the first half of Price's rookie season, which included a stint back in Hamilton. The first half of the season, Price was 9-7-3 (that's right, more losses than wins) with a pedestrian 2.93 GAA and a .907 SV%. Huet, in the same time span, was 17-8-5 with a 2.33 GAA and a .922 SV%. I'm not saying Huet is a great goalie or anything, I think the last 2 years have been evidence of that. The fact remains that Price did not deserve to be handed Huet's job at that point in time. Price initially made the decision look brilliant, as he was being driven by the desire to prove the decision correct. Now that the job his clearly his, I don't think he's playing at the same level.

Bang on.. when Huet was traded, he was clearly the better goalie. He had good and bad days like anyone, but over the first half he was the better guy. Some people were so enamored with Price's "potential" that they were ragging on Huet for being in the way of Price's greatness. Apparently, Gainey was one of them. That one decision took the number 1 team in the east out of the playoffs in the 2nd round. Price imploded with the Bruins, sucked it up for the 7th game, then looked lost in the Philly series. The entire bench sagged as one goal after another went it. I firmly believe that if we had kept Huet we would have gotten past Philly.. even if Price was in net. Just having Huet there as a safety net would take all the pressure off the kid.

In any case, we can't go back and change it, but we definitely need to limit the damage this year. If we can't turn Price around so that he can handle the bad times and become the player we hope for, it will be the biggest waste of potential since LeClair.

[Wamsley01]

Of course you can't blame Price alone. Giving up 7 goals, though, also obviously means he is not blameless. There was no good reason to send him right back out there the next game.

He wasn't necessarily rushed into the league, but they definitely rushed into giving him the #1 job. It's true he was handed a solid Hamilton team and won the Calder Cup with them. Whether or not he deserved to be handed that job doesn't deny the fact that it earned him the backup job behind Huet. He never, however, earned the starting job. Huet clearly outperformed him the first half of Price's rookie season, which included a stint back in Hamilton. The first half of the season, Price was 9-7-3 (that's right, more losses than wins) with a pedestrian 2.93 GAA and a .907 SV%. Huet, in the same time span, was 17-8-5 with a 2.33 GAA and a .922 SV%. I'm not saying Huet is a great goalie or anything, I think the last 2 years have been evidence of that. The fact remains that Price did not deserve to be handed Huet's job at that point in time. Price initially made the decision look brilliant, as he was being driven by the desire to prove the decision correct. Now that the job his clearly his, I don't think he's playing at the same level.

The Bulldogs were the 11th place team in the AHL entering the playoffs. Solid, sure whatever you want to tell yourself.

Price @ 19 dominated the AHL playoffs en route to the MVP on an 11th seed, find me another 19 year old who took an 11th

seed to an AHL title. Roy is the only comparable you will find, so gloss over it like it is no big deal if you like.

Huet was better? Come on. Funny how people reference Huet's FIRST HALF stats to discredit Price's ascendence

yet claim Halak was better last season even though Price blew him off the map in the first half of 2009.

The day Huet was traded his stats were:

Huet: 21-12-6 .615 win% 2.56 GAA and a .916 SV%

Price: 12-8-3 .587 win% 2.81 GAA and a .911 SV%

Why reference the first half only? Why not reference the statistics up to the point where Price was handed the starting job?

Stat manipulation is pretty easy to do. The fact is Price had won EVERYTHING he could win over the previous 18 months

and was essentially matching an impending 31 year old UFA's statistics at 20 years old.

During his first 64 NHL games he produced a 40-16-8 record (.688 win%) 2.46GAA, .920 SV% and 4 shutouts.

Then he got injured and his numbers never recovered during the second half.

Steve Mason came up and had a dominant rookie season and the Jackets dealt Leclaire, they left him with no security net.

He got BOMBED as a 7th seed in the first round and it wasn't his fault. Price gets bombed in the first round as an 8th seed

and he gets booed off the ice.

Yawn. Same old shit OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER. You guys think this is innovative discussion?

Jesus Christ, you would think the backup was Hasek on the 92 Hawks.

Halak will have to pull a Hasek to get the starting job. THAT is the way it is. Matching Price's play is not going to get it done.

[habs rule]

The Bulldogs were the 11th place team in the AHL entering the playoffs. Solid, sure whatever you want to tell yourself.

Price @ 19 dominated the AHL playoffs en route to the MVP on an 11th seed, find me another 19 year old who took an 11th

seed to an AHL title. Roy is the only comparable you will find, so gloss over it like it is no big deal if you like.

Huet was better? Come on. Funny how people reference Huet's FIRST HALF stats to discredit Price's ascendence

yet claim Halak was better last season even though Price blew him off the map in the first half of 2009.

The day Huet was traded his stats were:

Huet: 21-12-6 .615 win% 2.56 GAA and a .916 SV%

Price: 12-8-3 .587 win% 2.81 GAA and a .911 SV%

Why reference the first half only? Why not reference the statistics up to the point where Price was handed the starting job?

Stat manipulation is pretty easy to do. The fact is Price had won EVERYTHING he could win over the previous 18 months

and was essentially matching an impending 31 year old UFA's statistics at 20 years old.

During his first 64 NHL games he produced a 40-16-8 record (.688 win%) 2.46GAA, .920 SV% and 4 shutouts.

Then he got injured and his numbers never recovered during the second half.

Steve Mason came up and had a dominant rookie season and the Jackets dealt Leclaire, they left him with no security net.

He got BOMBED as a 7th seed in the first round and it wasn't his fault. Price gets bombed in the first round as an 8th seed

and he gets booed off the ice.

Yawn. Same old shit OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER. You guys think this is innovative discussion?

Jesus Christ, you would think the backup was Hasek on the 92 Hawks.

Halak will have to pull a Hasek to get the starting job. THAT is the way it is. Matching Price's play is not going to get it done.

ahhh a little common sense in an ocean of despair I love it

[Fanpuck33]

The day Huet was traded his stats were:

Huet: 21-12-6 .615 win% 2.56 GAA and a .916 SV%

Price: 12-8-3 .587 win% 2.81 GAA and a .911 SV%

Why reference the first half only? Why not reference the statistics up to the point where Price was handed the starting job?

Stat manipulation is pretty easy to do.

My answer is simple: I have no idea where to look for stats on a given day of a previous season. These stats, however, don't really change my point. You go on to mention that Halak matching Price in performance shouldn't be enough to earn Halak anything, so why should Price have gotten the job by simply matching Huet?

During his first 64 NHL games he produced a 40-16-8 record (.688 win%) 2.46GAA, .920 SV% and 4 shutouts.

Then he got injured and his numbers never recovered during the second half.

Hey, I've already admitted that Price's performance initially made the way the team handled him seem wise. His performance after his injury is the key to my entire point. More important than his numbers not recovering is that his performance never recovered. He wasn't the same after the injury and should have had to re-earn his job. My whole argument centers on the fact that Price has continually been handed things on a silver platter and I fully believe that it has hurt his development. Price knows the job is his, so that motivation just isn't there for him. His job is too secure for someone his age who struggled like he did the second half of last season.

Steve Mason came up and had a dominant rookie season and the Jackets dealt Leclaire, they left him with no security net.

He got BOMBED as a 7th seed in the first round and it wasn't his fault. Price gets bombed in the first round as an 8th seed

and he gets booed off the ice.

I'm so sick of being lumped in with the people who want to boo and crucify Price. This couldn't be further from the truth and anyone reading my posts should be able to figure this out. I am clearly NOT a Price hater. I am simply dissatisfied with the way his career has been placed ahead of the team.

Also, your comparison of Huet-Price to LeClaire-Mason doesn't make any sense. LeClaire was already out for the season when he was traded, he was neither competing with Mason for starts, nor acting as a security blanket. Mason got the job out of necessity, while Price was handed the job because he was simply matching the performance of a more veteran goalie.

[BTH]

Few players in the league have as much pressure on them as Price does...

[Wamsley01]

My answer is simple: I have no idea where to look for stats on a given day of a previous season. These stats, however, don't really change my point. You go on to mention that Halak matching Price in performance shouldn't be enough to earn Halak anything, so why should Price have gotten the job by simply matching Huet?

Hey, I've already admitted that Price's performance initially made the way the team handled him seem wise. His performance after his injury is the key to my entire point. More important than his numbers not recovering is that his performance never recovered. He wasn't the same after the injury and should have had to re-earn his job. My whole argument centers on the fact that Price has continually been handed things on a silver platter and I fully believe that it has hurt his development. Price knows the job is his, so that motivation just isn't there for him. His job is too secure for someone his age who struggled like he did the second half of last season.

I'm so sick of being lumped in with the people who want to boo and crucify Price. This couldn't be further from the truth and anyone reading my posts should be able to figure this out. I am clearly NOT a Price hater. I am simply dissatisfied with the way his career has been placed ahead of the team.

Also, your comparison of Huet-Price to LeClaire-Mason doesn't make any sense. LeClaire was already out for the season when he was traded, he was neither competing with Mason for starts, nor acting as a security blanket. Mason got the job out of necessity, while Price was handed the job because he was simply matching the performance of a more veteran goalie.

The difference between Huet and Halak is Huet was a UFA and was 11 years older than him.

So Gainey traded him to get back an asset (which goes against every other UFA he has let walk).

The decision is pretty simple when you can pay a 31-32 year old $5M+ or a 20 year old 850K to do the same thing.

So there is a HUGE difference between Halak and Huet.

Halak is older and does not have the same resume as Price. If Halak had Price's resume as well, then I would

say that it was an even race. But it is not, and he does not.

As for Leclaire, he may have been injured, but he had 3 years left on his contract. So he could have mentored

Mason this season, Leclaire had just been handed a monster contract coming off a career season. To me that is

more of a statement than handing Price a job over an impending UFA. If Garon equals Mason's stats over the next 3 months should Garon be given a 50/50 split? Or what if Dan LaCosta comes up and puts up big numbers over 20-30 games, should LaCosta be given a 50/50 split with Mason?

The ONLY difference in this whole equation is Price plays in a city that blames their Hall of Fame goaltenders

for everything and Mason plays in a city that doesn't give a ######. (and no I am not saying PRice is a Hall of Famer,

I am saying they blamed Roy and Dryden for everything as well).

[habs rule]

ya know pricey has not played badly this year. he won 2 games they should have lost. halak could have gotten 1 goal in calgary and they would be winners price got burned on some shite deflections in edmonton. It is hockey it happens and it will turn around give the guy a break for crying out loud.

[Fanpuck33]

The difference between Huet and Halak is Huet was a UFA and was 11 years older than him.

So Gainey traded him to get back an asset (which goes against every other UFA he has let walk).

The decision is pretty simple when you can pay a 31-32 year old $5M+ or a 20 year old 850K to do the same thing.

So there is a HUGE difference between Halak and Huet.

I see, so you only give a goalie more playing time if he's cheaper and younger. No matter how you look at it, Price was handed the starting job before he earned it. Playing comparably to a veteran shouldn't earn you a job, consistently performing better than that veteran should earn the job.

Halak is older and does not have the same resume as Price. If Halak had Price's resume as well, then I would

say that it was an even race. But it is not, and he does not.

It definitely would have been interesting to see what Halak could have done with that Calder Cup team. Halak put in the work all season, consistently outplaying the incumbent starter (Danis) and finally being given the job towards the end of the year, having earned it. In came Price who has handed the job. I'm sure Halak also would have loved being able to compete on a top team like Canada in the WJC. It's unfair to compare their resumes, as one has consistently had better opportunities.

As for Leclaire, he may have been injured, but he had 3 years left on his contract. So he could have mentored

Mason this season, Leclaire had just been handed a monster contract coming off a career season. To me that is

more of a statement than handing Price a job over an impending UFA. If Garon equals Mason's stats over the next 3 months should Garon be given a 50/50 split? Or what if Dan LaCosta comes up and puts up big numbers over 20-30 games, should LaCosta be given a 50/50 split with Mason?

There's still a huge difference between trading a healthy goalie for a 2nd round pick and trading an injured goalie for a desperately needed 2nd line center in Vermette. Had they not gone out and made their first off-season priority getting an experienced goaltender, it might have been a huge statement you're making it out to be. But they went out and got a guy who has been a starter in this league, a guy that coach Hitchcock refuses to call a backup. If Garon or LaCosta match Mason, then they absolutely should be given ice time. You do what is best for the team, not what's best for an individual. Mason got pulled against San Jose last week and Garon started the next game. This is what should have happened with Price after Vancouver. If I were coaching, I would have even started Garon in the next game, to reward him for his shutout. Giving Garon another start isn't gonna hurt Mason. There's no reason to overplay Mason and wear him out like they did last season.

The ONLY difference in this whole equation is Price plays in a city that blames their Hall of Fame goaltenders

for everything and Mason plays in a city that doesn't give a ######. (and no I am not saying PRice is a Hall of Famer,

I am saying they blamed Roy and Dryden for everything as well).

This is a slap in the face to Blue Jackets fans. Yes, the Buckeyes will always be number one in this city, but that doesn't mean there aren't thousands of passionate Jackets fans also. Also, if you're going to blame the pressure of playing in Montreal for Price's struggles since last season, then we might as well give up on him. The pressure isn't going to go away. Of course, it doesn't help that the organization has placed the pressure solely on his shoulders by rushing him into a stone-cold lock starting job.

[Wamsley01]

I see, so you only give a goalie more playing time if he's cheaper and younger. No matter how you look at it, Price was handed the starting job before he earned it. Playing comparably to a veteran shouldn't earn you a job, consistently performing better than that veteran should earn the job.

What was the alternative? Huet was gone the second Price proved he was NHL ready, whether he stayed throughout

2008 or not is irrelevant. They COULD NOT KEEP Huet, and if they did one of Price or Halak would be buried in the minors

for 3-4 years.

It definitely would have been interesting to see what Halak could have done with that Calder Cup team. Halak put in the work all season, consistently outplaying the incumbent starter (Danis) and finally being given the job towards the end of the year, having earned it. In came Price who has handed the job. I'm sure Halak also would have loved being able to compete on a top team like Canada in the WJC. It's unfair to compare their resumes, as one has consistently had better opportunities.

I don't care what Halak MIGHT have done. He DIDN'T. You act like Price was a passenger on the Calder Cup team and the WJC Canadian team. He won the MVP of both! He won the CHL goaltender of the year, is there an excuse as to why Halak did not win that in the QMJHL? How about we stick to REALITY, the reality in which Price won all these awards and Halak did not.

There's still a huge difference between trading a healthy goalie for a 2nd round pick and trading an injured goalie for a desperately needed 2nd line centre in Vermette. Had they not gone out and made their first off-season priority getting an experienced goaltender, it might have been a huge statement you're making it out to be. But they went out and got a guy who has been a starter in this league, a guy that coach Hitchcock refuses to call a backup. If Garon or LaCosta match Mason, then they absolutely should be given ice time. You do what is best for the team, not what's best for an individual. Mason got pulled against San Jose last week and Garon started the next game. This is what should have happened with Price after Vancouver. If I were coaching, I would have even started Garon in the next game, to reward him for his shutout. Giving Garon another start isn't gonna hurt Mason. There's no reason to overplay Mason and wear him out like they did last season.

A guy who has been a starter in the league? Come on. Garon was a starter for one season in LA, then dealt to Edmonton where he held that job for 47 games. They got an experienced backup, because that is the majority of Garon's career.

Twist it whatever way you want, they dealt a goalie that they had just committed to 6 months earlier to hand the starter's job to a 20 year old who had played 60 NHL games. If you believe that Hitchcock will split the starts if Garon MATCHES Mason statistically, you are out of your mind. Garon will have to outperform him to be the starter.

This is a slap in the face to Blue Jackets fans. Yes, the Buckeyes will always be number one in this city, but that doesn't mean there aren't thousands of passionate Jackets fans also. Also, if you're going to blame the pressure of playing in Montreal for Price's struggles since last season, then we might as well give up on him. The pressure isn't going to go away. Of course, it doesn't help that the organization has placed the pressure solely on his shoulders by rushing him into a stone-cold lock starting job.

Consider it a slap, I could care less. You take your thousand of passionate Jackets fans and multiply them by 10,000, then add 3-4 daily newspapers, 500 blogs and 3-4 TV stations and radio programs dedicated to following the franchises every move and then it will be an equal setting. The expectations on Price DWARF those of Steve Mason. It is why there are these ridiculous discussions going on simultaneously on 20-30 message boards. Patrick Roy chaffed under the pressure, so to expect Price not to is ridiculous.

[habs rule]

What was the alternative? Huet was gone the second Price proved he was NHL ready, whether he stayed throughout

2008 or not is irrelevant. They COULD NOT KEEP Huet, and if they did one of Price or Halak would be buried in the minors

for 3-4 years.

I don't care what Halak MIGHT have done. He DIDN'T. You act like Price was a passenger on the Calder Cup team and the WJC Canadian team. He won the MVP of both! He won the CHL goaltender of the year, is there an excuse as to why Halak did not win that in the QMJHL? How about we stick to REALITY, the reality in which Price won all these awards and Halak did not.

A guy who has been a starter in the league? Come on. Garon was a starter for one season in LA, then dealt to Edmonton where he held that job for 47 games. They got an experienced backup, because that is the majority of Garon's career.

Twist it whatever way you want, they dealt a goalie that they had just committed to 6 months earlier to hand the starter's job to a 20 year old who had played 60 NHL games. If you believe that Hitchcock will split the starts if Garon MATCHES Mason statistically, you are out of your mind. Garon will have to outperform him to be the starter.

Consider it a slap, I could care less. You take your thousand of passionate Jackets fans and multiply them by 10,000, then add 3-4 daily newspapers, 500 blogs and 3-4 TV stations and radio programs dedicated to following the franchises every move and then it will be an equal setting. The expectations on Price DWARF those of Steve Mason. It is why there are these ridiculous discussions going on simultaneously on 20-30 message boards. Patrick Roy chaffed under the pressure, so to expect Price not to is ridiculous.

very good points. there is no point driving in the rear view mirror Price was the better goal tender up untill the team imploded last year and i think that the criticism of Price folding under a complete team collapse and his injury are unfair. How many goalies are asked to score goals cause that is the only thing he could have done to salvage last year. It was a mess let's move on. I know Bob has. :hlogo:

Edited October 16, 2009 by habs rule

[Fanpuck33]

What was the alternative? Huet was gone the second Price proved he was NHL ready, whether he stayed throughout

2008 or not is irrelevant. They COULD NOT KEEP Huet, and if they did one of Price or Halak would be buried in the minors

for 3-4 years.

The alternative was to keep Huet for the remainder of the season and delay the handing of the reigns to Price. Like I've already said countless times, I think it was incredibly stupid to hand him the starting job when he was not yet consistently outplaying Huet. A 2nd round pick simply wasn't a good enough incentive to give him the job when they did.

I don't care what Halak MIGHT have done. He DIDN'T. You act like Price was a passenger on the Calder Cup team and the WJC Canadian team. He won the MVP of both! He won the CHL goaltender of the year, is there an excuse as to why Halak did not win that in the QMJHL? How about we stick to REALITY, the reality in which Price won all these awards and Halak did not.

Have I tried to dispute any of Price's junior or minor league accomplishments? Did I deny that he performed wonderfully in the WJC or the Calder Cup run? Absolutely not. I simply pointed out that his resume is so much better because he's been given much better opportunities is his career, all the way from juniors, to the minors, and now in the NHL. I simply said it would be interesting to see how Halak would have performed given the same opportunities. This is neither an indictment of Price nor support of Halak, it's simply an interesting hypothetical.

A guy who has been a starter in the league? Come on. Garon was a starter for one season in LA, then dealt to Edmonton where he held that job for 47 games. They got an experienced backup, because that is the majority of Garon's career. Twist it whatever way you want, they dealt a goalie that they had just committed to 6 months earlier to hand the starter's job to a 20 year old who had played 60 NHL games.

Why should I "come on?" You state yourself he has been a starter in this league before. They committed to 4 years on LeClaire because that's what it took to resign him. Given LeClaire's injury history, I don't believe for a second that they ever intended to keep him around for the length of his contract. Even in his big year, he only managed 52 starts. Yes, Mason was given the job before he earned it, but the big difference between he and Price, as I mentioned, is that Mason was given the job out of necessity. The Jackets desperately needed a 2nd line center for their playoff run, at the expense of an injured player. Then their first priority was signing a guy with similar career numbers as LeClaire to back him up and potentially push him for some starts.

If you believe that Hitchcock will split the starts if Garon MATCHES Mason statistically, you are out of your mind. Garon will have to outperform him to be the starter.

Show me where I ever said this.

Consider it a slap, I could care less. You take your thousand of passionate Jackets fans and multiply them by 10,000, then add 3-4 daily newspapers, 500 blogs and 3-4 TV stations and radio programs dedicated to following the franchises every move and then it will be an equal setting. The expectations on Price DWARF those of Steve Mason. It is why there are these ridiculous discussions going on simultaneously on 20-30 message boards. Patrick Roy chaffed under the pressure, so to expect Price not to is ridiculous.

What is your point here? Did I ever claim Mason had as much pressure as Price or that Columbus' fan base is as big as Montreal's? No. I simply pointed out that your comment was insulting to Jackets fans and that the pressure excuse gets real old. Jackets fans DO give a #####. I also never said anything to the effect that Price shouldn't chafe under the pressure in Montreal, simply that if people are going to use the pressure as an excuse, we're doomed. If his struggles were caused by pressure from the fans, we're in trouble, because that pressure will never change. There's a difference between chaffing under pressure and performing poorly because of pressure. I just don't buy the pressure angle, as he dealt fine with it early in his career.

And to be fair to Mason, the expectations placed on him last year were immense. He was saddled with carrying a team that had begun to bleed fans to its first ever playoff appearance. He did all of this without a legitimate backup goalie, to the extent that while fighting mononucleosis, he only missed two starts. Now, don't read too much into this. I'm not trying to say that pressure is the same as the pressure on Carey to be "Jesus Price." (Although, Steve was the Jackets' "Mase-iah" last year, haha.) You seemed to be implying that Mason had little to no pressure on him, which isn't true. If I was putting words in your mouth, that's my bad.

[Colin]

Jackets fans DO give a #####.

Time out!

Fanpuck, this implies that there ARE Jackets fans. Gonna need you to back this statement up.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The Jackets have a great fan base. It's suffered lately due to the crippling recession in Ohio, but credit where due, that's a great hockey town. Nonetheless it's no Montreal.

Not to be rude, but I'm getting pretty sick of this Price debate. Indeed, I have a hard time seeing it as more than just another version of the scapegoating disease. Clearly Price is a good young goalie. He's not yet among the NHL's rarified elite. But even if he were, he would *still* be constantly criticized because of the ridiculous expectations that Habs fans force on their goalies. As Wamsley points out, this is a town that booed Ken Dryden and Patrick Roy, and I know for a fact that a solid chunk of Montreal's fan base NEVER thought Roy was all that great until AFTER he had been shipped out of town.

Price hasn't been ruined; so arguments that the Habs have mishandled him are by definition overstated. The Habs don't have any better options anyway. And I don't think he's our major problem by any means (lack of depth up front and defensive-zone issues, these are REAL problems - and underlying it all is our track-record of bad drafting/player development). So what is the point of all this mooning over Huet, crying for Saviour Halak, or yelling at Bob for having too much faith in the young man? Stop whining about possible mistakes made two years ago and start worrying about the REAL weaknesses on this team; that'd be my humble suggestion.

Edited October 16, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Fanpuck33]

Price hasn't been ruined; so arguments that the Habs have mishandled him are by definition overstated. The Habs don't have any better options anyway. And I don't think he's our major problem by any means (lack of depth up front and defensive-zone issues, these are REAL problems - and underlying it all is our track-record of bad drafting/player development). So what is the point of all this mooning over Huet, crying for Saviour Halak, or yelling at Bob for having too much faith in the young man? Stop whining about possible mistakes made two years ago and start worrying about the REAL weaknesses on this team; that'd be my humble suggestion.

I agree completely that the hasn't been ruined and that we have far more glaring weaknesses, but I do think the way he has been handled has been wrong. Goalies are simply the easiest to blame, so that's where the arguments tend to center on. My whole argument boils down to the fact that I think it would be better for both the team and for both young goalies if there were an open competition in net following last season. This obviously isn't going to happen, so I can only say that I disagree with it, but hope that Price proves management's faith in him is not undeserved.

[BTH]

Like I've already said countless times, I think it was incredibly stupid to hand him the starting job when he was not yet consistently outplaying Huet.

Price was handed the job because he was simply matching the performance of a more veteran goalie.

Price should not have gotten the starter's job because he was not consistently outplaying Huet.

and yet -

Price should lose the starter's job to Halak even though he has not been consistently outplayed by Halak?

As Wamsley said, the day Huet was traded the stats were:

Huet: 21-12-6 .615 win% 2.56 GAA and a .916 SV%

Price: 12-8-3 .587 win% 2.81 GAA and a .911 SV%

Last season, the season stats were:

Price: 23-16-10 2.83 GAA and a .905 SV%

Halak: 18-14-1 2.86 GAA and a .915 SV%.

To me they look like pretty similar situations. (Keep in mind, many of those Price losses came at the end of the 08-09 season as the team collapsed without Markov.) How can you argue that Price did not deserve the job then, but that Halak deserves it now? Halak has not consistently outplayed Price - unless, of course, you mean "consistently over the course of a month."

Nor is Halak the more experienced goalie. He's older, but he's only played 57 NHL games to Price's 98. There's no use bringing up the fact that Price has gotten the better chances. That he was made the starter before he deserved the job. That he was made the back-up when he was less experienced than Halak. It's irrelevant to the present situation. RIGHT NOW Price is the more experienced goalie, the better goalie, and playing at least as well as Halak did in his one game (+ preseason).

Out of those 57 games, Halak only played like an NHL starter in one four-game stretch that he got because Price was injured. This guy has done NOTHING to warrant challenging Price for the job. That is, assuming a goalie's right to challenge the starter is what you, yourself, dictated: having consistently outplayed the starter.

Four games into the season Price needs to be swapped with the back-up? Because he hasn't yet earned the right to start after a 7-1 loss? Because there's some rule where only elite goaltenders get to start again after a rough night? You are determined to crush his confidence in the name of helping the team.

Apart from the fact that I believe it would not help the team (Halak would get bombed playing in front of this team when they're cold), Price's development IS the team. If you don't like it, tough! That's how it is. Our success over the next decade pretty much relies on Price becoming a top goalie in the league. The maintenance of his confidence and morale is more important than a couple of losses this season. (I have already said that I don't think keeping Price in the net over Halak will actually result in a couple of extra losses. But I'm just saying...)

If you have some crack pot theory that demoting Price would actually help with his development and the maintenance of his confidence, then all I can say is that I'm happy that Martin doesn't share it. If he's getting shelled routinely and clearly needs a break, I have no problem with sitting him - this was arguably the case late last season. Right now, things are nowhere near as extreme.

Price knows the job is his, so that motivation just isn't there for him. His job is too secure for someone his age who struggled like he did the second half of last season.

No, you have no clue what's going through Price's mind and how motivated he is. You don't have any knowledge of what his current mind state is and how secure he feels about his job.

Besides this, this argument has no power to me because the pressure on Price is as much as on anybody in the entire NHL. I can't believe that he sits back content knowing that he's the starter unless he totally bombs.

How secure did he look when he taunted the Montreal crowd after they jeered him?

How comfy is he sitting when reporters like Jack Todd bash him regularly in the papers for all to see?

What about when strangers pass him in the grocery market and insult him because he let in a bad goal the night before?

Or when he reads a message board and sees somebody who doesn't even know him act as if he knows exactly what's going through his head?

Is he unmotivated when legions of bums in front of their keyboards - that have never met him - hate his guts? Because he let in a puck that was deflected twice?

Price is getting COOKED by the pressure. You are right in that it is something that any U22 year old would have trouble dealing with. Yet you argue that what he needs is more pressure? That the problem is that he isn't motivated with the current load? That he'll compete harder if he has his job stripped from him? That's bullshit. There might be reasons to give Halak more starts, but this is absolutely not one of them.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I agree completely that the hasn't been ruined and that we have far more glaring weaknesses, but I do think the way he has been handled has been wrong. Goalies are simply the easiest to blame, so that's where the arguments tend to centre on. My whole argument boils down to the fact that I think it would be better for both the team and for both young goalies if there were an open competition in net following last season. This obviously isn't going to happen, so I can only say that I disagree with it, but hope that Price proves management's faith in him is not undeserved.

Glad you agree that the really serious problems lie elsewhere, not between the pipes.

My objection is that, this being the Habs's case, WAAAAY too much attention has been given over by fans and media to criticizing or defending Price. It's blown out of proportion. I mean, you've got a sizeable chunk of the fanbase that seems to think Price is 'the key' to whatever ails the Habs. This was the case in that famous series against Philly two seasons ago and to a lesser extent in the second half of last season. But as an analysis of *this* season, it's just nuts.

It is valid to debate the relative merits of Carey Price vs. Halak or other NHL goalies, but the amount of energy being expended on this is totally out of proportion. Let's move on!!!

Edited October 16, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Fanpuck33]

Price should not have gotten the starter's job because he was not consistently outplaying Huet.

and yet -

Price should lose the starter's job to Halak even though he has not been consistently outplayed by Halak?

As Wamsley said, the day Huet was traded the stats were:

Huet: 21-12-6 .615 win% 2.56 GAA and a .916 SV%

Price: 12-8-3 .587 win% 2.81 GAA and a .911 SV%

Last season, the season stats were:

Price: 23-16-10 2.83 GAA and a .905 SV%

Halak: 18-14-1 2.86 GAA and a .915 SV%.

To me they look like pretty similar situations. (Keep in mind, many of those Price losses came at the end of the 08-09 season as the team collapsed without Markov.) How can you argue that Price did not deserve the job then, but that Halak deserves it now? Halak has not consistently outplayed Price - unless, of course, you mean "consistently over the course of a month."

You clearly don't understand what I am saying. I have never said that Halak deserves to be the starter now. I haven't even come close to saying that. I've been abundantly clear that I advocated an open competition between the goalies going into this season. Halak has no more earned the starting job than Price did in his rookie season.

Apart from the fact that I believe it would not help the team (Halak would get bombed playing in front of this team when they're cold), Price's development IS the team. If you don't like it, tough! That's how it is. Our success over the next decade pretty much relies on Price becoming a top goalie in the league. The maintenance of his confidence and morale is more important than a couple of losses this season. (I have already said that I don't think keeping Price in the net over Halak will actually result in a couple of extra losses. But I'm just saying...)

See, this is the exact attitude that puts so much pressure on Price. The fans and the organization are saying to him that the team's success lies squarely on his shoulders. It's one thing for the fans to put that kind of pressure on him, it's another thing for the organization to do it. No 21 year old goalie should have to deal with that. Opening up the starting job to a competition between Price and Halak would remove tons of pressure from Price. Instead of having to think about the entire team being on his shoulders, he can concentrate on simply winning the job. I have little doubt that after a given amount of time he would beat out Halak for the job. And when he does win the job, he will be just another guy who earned his job, instead of being the team's savior.

If you have some crack pot theory that demoting Price would actually help with his development and the maintenance of his confidence, then all I can say is that I'm happy that Martin doesn't share it. If he's getting shelled routinely and clearly needs a break, I have no problem with sitting him - this was arguably the case late last season. Right now, things are nowhere near as extreme.

What crack pot theory? I don't really know what you are talking about. He clearly should have gone on a conditioning stint in Hamilton after his injury last year, instead of being rushed back for the All-Star game. I guess I did mention that at times I hoped for another minor injury so that they'd be able to send him down for a spell, but that was talking about last season. I haven't felt like that this season. If he starts playing like he did last year, then maybe I might start feeling that way, but not right now. Even so, any sort of demotion wouldn't be about punishing Price. It would be about giving him a chance to get back to basics, focus solely on hockey, and build back lost confidence.

No, you have no clue what's going through Price's mind and how motivated he is. You don't have any knowledge of what his current mind state is and how secure he feels about his job.

Besides this, this argument has no power to me because the pressure on Price is as much as on anybody in the entire NHL. I can't believe that he sits back content knowing that he's the starter unless he totally bombs.

Of course, both are simply our own opinions, which we are both entitled to have. I just know there are countless young players in every sport that think once they have reached the big leagues, they have made it and don't have to work as hard. I don't know if this is true in Price's case or not, I just submit that it is a plausible theory. Creating a competition for the starting job simply ensures that this is not the case.