GDT Capitals vs Habs, Jan. 18, 7:30 PM EST

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Just need that Gaborick/Hossa high scoring superstar type forward to be added on July 1st, posibly Parise or the like?

Montreal is honestly better off being terrible for the next few seasons, drafting these kind of superstars (hopefully) and giving it another go when we're not having to make excuses for everyone.

[Commandant]

I agree, i would guess the Leafs/Philly/Caps/Sens/Oilers etc etc would give up 1/2 their team for Price.

Unless Price can score/check/or work the PP he really cant do much more than he has for the team and i thnik Miller is a scapegoat in Buffalo as well, go ahead Sabres try trading him and see how you do, again many teams would love to see him on market as well.

Agreed 100%

Just admit it. this Habs version is just not that good and cant compete; while the youth up front is holding their own and looking promising, the high paid forwards are not. And the youth on the backend are holding their own, but still are just that, young and relatively inexperianced, but improving.

Are Yemelin and Diaz top 4 d-men, no, but give them time and add in Markov and only 1 (Yemelin) will need to play 20 minutes/game next year. And allow Diaz and Kaberle to play 3rd pairing with a bunch of super looking prospects moving to AHL next year to push them and i would say the d-core is pretty set, as is between the pipes.

Just need that Gaborick/Hossa high scoring superstar type forward to be added on July 1st, posibly Parise or the like?

I'd add a top 4 Defenceman who is big, physically mean and nasty. on July 1st.

For the top end forward, I think we grab that through the draft and wait for him to develop. We really are getting ourselves into position for Grigorenko this year.

Reason being, its damn tough to sign the forward on July 1st, especially one who fills our needs.

And I can say that with Halak ,the team would be playing better with more confidence and would be comfortably in a playoff position. You don't know and neither do I. It's my opinion that Price is insanely overrated and a fact he hasn't won anything in the NHL and especially hasn't stolen a playoff series for us. I could argue that he blew the series vs. Boston last year with a couple of boneheaded puck handling plays

Oh so its a Price vs Halak thing again... I get it now. You've got to let go, Halak is a backup goalie in St. Louis now, there is no use rehashing that.

And if you are arguing that Price is the reason we lost to the Bruins last year, I really don't know what to say.

Above average but not great either.

He is hovering around 25th-26th in GAA and Save % in the league overall. Not having a very impressive year at all.

GAA is a team stat.

Save percentage is less of a pure team stat, but is still greatly effected by the team. The quality of scoring chances against and the teams ability to clear the front of the net and the rebounds is gonna effect this greatly. Right now our D is incapable of containing big forwards.

He's not been as good as last season, no doubt about that, but he's not 25th or 26th best in the league either. The stats decieve.

This is usually where someone brings up that he is also top 5 in losses for a goalie his age.

Quite simply, there hasn't been a goalie in the NHL who has played and accomplished as much at such a young as Price since Tom Barrasso in the 1980s.

Exactly.

[Willey101]

Agreed 100%

I'd add a top 4 Defenceman who is big, physically mean and nasty. on July 1st.

For the top end forward, I think we grab that through the draft and wait for him to develop. We really are getting ourselves into position for Grigorenko this year.

Reason being, its damn tough to sign the forward on July 1st, especially one who fills our needs.

Oh so its a Price vs Halak thing again... I get it now. You've got to let go, Halak is a backup goalie in St. Louis now, there is no use rehashing that.

And if you are arguing that Price is the reason we lost to the Bruins last year, I really don't know what to say.

GAA is a team stat.

Save percentage is less of a pure team stat, but is still greatly effected by the team. The quality of scoring chances against and the teams ability to clear the front of the net and the rebounds is gonna effect this greatly. Right now our D is incapable of containing big forwards.

He's not been as good as last season, no doubt about that, but he's not 25th or 26th best in the league either. The stats decieve.

Exactly.

He's 25th or worst in GAA, Save %, Wins, every possible stat. I think it is a bad year all around, learn from it, buid a better D-core in front of him and move on.

[Commandant]

He's 25th or worst in GAA, Save %, Wins, every possible stat. I think it is a bad year all around, learn from it, buid a better D-core in front of him and move on.

Okay so I bring up how GAA and Save % are bad because they are team stats... and you come back with adding WINS to the equation.

Thats the thing with goaltending, its too team based to judge on stats alone.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

The most important stat stated was that 11 of Price's losses came from Montreal being unable to score more than one goal.

Especially when you consider how little we score in the shootout.

[Willey101]

Okay so I bring up who GAA and Save % are bad because they are team stats... and you come back with adding WINS to the equation.

Thats the thing with goaltending, its too team based to judge on stats alone.

What opther stat can you possible examine when comparing a goalie. Wins, Save % and GAA are basically the 3 elements.

So he's 5th in games played but in wins he is 18th with 15 wins in 40 games. GAA he is 29th but 7 of those ahead of him have played under 5 games so let's say 22nd. Save % he is 38th but 9 have played less than 10 games so let's say 28th. Shutouts he's 27th.

Shootouts he is even worse. He has the most losses, has on of the worst save % at..500. and has but 1 win in 7. The worst being 7 goals allowed on just 11 shots on home ice.

There is just no way to put a positive spin on his season to date. Without Price and can things possibly get worse, I am not so sure.

[Commandant]

What opther stat can you possible examine when comparing a goalie. Wins, Save % and GAA are basically the 3 elements.

So he's 5th in games played but in wins he is 18th with 15 wins in 40 games. GAA he is 29th but 7 of those ahead of him have played under 5 games so let's say 22nd. Save % he is 38th but 9 have played less than 10 games so let's say 28th. Shutouts he's 27th.

Shootouts he is even worse. He has the most losses, has on of the worst save % at..500. and has but 1 win in 7.

There is just no way to put a positive spin on his season to date. Without Price and can things possibly get worse, I am not so sure.

The problem is the position, there quite simply is no stat you can use for a goaltender that isn't team based. All you can do is watch him play the games.

There is a reason why Price has won the Molson Cup (given to the player on the team who has the most 3 star selections) every single month for the Habs this season. He is quite simply the most consistent and best player on a bad team.

[Willey101]

Yet still has under performed. Had he been just at the same level as last year there is no telling how much better we would actually be. What if he had 4 more saves for instance in the shootouts?

I am not saying Price is the issue because he is playing without a #1 d and quite frankly with a 6 man unit that is sooooogreen it's not funny but he has had his share of issues this season. Playing poorly on an already poor team.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

So he's 5th in games played but in wins he is 18th with 15 wins in 40 games.

The team has 17 wins, which is tied for 27th. Price has 15 of those wins.

His 17 losses are tied with Jonas Hiller and Cam Ward, both excellent goalies as well. His 8 OT losses is tied with Jonathan Quick, who happens to be playing on a better built team.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Machine of Loving Grace

[Commandant]

Of course, I agree he is not playing as well as last season.

I just think there is a lot of other problems that need fixing before we even think about addressing the #1 Goalie Position. Thats one spot where I feel like we are set, and its just a matter of coming to the right dollars for his RFA deal.... as opposed to going out and trying to find another goalie.

While he hasn't been perfect... on the list of problems with this team, he's very, very close to the bottom.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

While he hasn't been perfect... on the list of problems with this team, he's very, very close to the bottom.

I'd say he is at the bottom, followed by Subban. Two guys who seem to be getting much more criticism than they possibly deserve.

[Willey101]

Of course, I agree he is not playing as well as last season.

I just think there is a lot of other problems that need fixing before we even think about addressing the #1 Goalie Position. Thats one spot where I feel like we are set, and its just a matter of coming to the right dollars for his RFA deal.... as opposed to going out and trying to find another goalie.

While he hasn't been perfect... on the list of problems with this team, he's very, very close to the bottom.

I agree completely.....just didn't agree with you when you said we'd be worse off without him this year because his stats have been quite poor. Not saying ship him out of town at all.

[Commandant]

I think that you could take almost any goalie and put him behind our defence, ane he will put up poor stats.... and most would be worse than what price has endured.

[BlueKross]

I'm hearing it all, Gomez was no good because he didn't have a good winger, Cammy was no good because Markov was not in line up, Price is no good because he has a poor team in front of him. I thought this was a team game. I think their is enough STINK to go around for everyone. How about something positive. How about we play Budaj, since this team is going nowhere, the emphasis on team; and see if we can't get something for him at deadline. Why not try it? By the way--- I think Columbus will pass us before we are done.

[Habsy]

I'm hearing it all, Gomez was no good because he didn't have a good winger, Cammy was no good because Markov was not in line up, Price is no good because he has a poor team in front of him. I thought this was a team game. I think their is enough STINK to go around for everyone. How about something positive. How about we play Budaj, since this team is going nowhere, the emphasis on team; and see if we can't get something for him at deadline. Why not try it? By the way--- I think Columbus will pass us before we are done.

Have we fallen that much? That we're contemplating the value of our backup goalie. How many rounds are in the draft? Because he'll get you a pick in the last round, if someone feels sorry for PG.

[JMMR]

Budaj should get another game Friday or Saturday.

[Commandant]

Budaj has little to no trade value IMO... even if you play him a lot.

I would play him more, merely because Price needs the rest, and it can't hurt our tanking.

I hope Columbus passes us, but I don't see it, they are more of a mess than we are.

[dlbalr]

Budaj should get another game Friday or Saturday.

It was said today that he'll get one of the games.

[BlueKross]

Budaj has little to no trade value IMO... even if you play him a lot.

I would play him more, merely because Price needs the rest, and it can't hurt our tanking.

I hope Columbus passes us, but I don't see it, they are more of a mess than we are.

I put Price in the top of our player pool along with Markov. Like Markov it makes no sense to overuse him in his role this year. We want them both healthy going into next year. Budaj at some point needs a new contract and he needs a higher profile; therefore he needs to play good any time he gets to play, no matter what is happening around him. So it is win,win,win. Budaj gets hot and maybe someone looks at him, he plays bad that works and price stayshealthy when he is in net.

[Commandant]

I put Price in the top of our player pool along with Markov. Like Markov it makes no sense to overuse him in his role this year. We want them both healthy going into next year. Budaj at some point needs a new contract and he needs a higher profile; therefore he needs to play good any time he gets to play, no matter what is happening around him. So it is win,win,win. Budaj gets hot and maybe someone looks at him, he plays bad that works and price stayshealthy when he is in net.

I don't mind playing Budaj more, in fact I agree 100% with playing him more games in the 2nd half of this season.

I just don't think you are going to be able to trade him at the deadline.

I'd love to, but there are so many other good goalies who will be available. Note Budaj is not a rental, he signed a 2 year deal.

Basically we agree totally on playing Budaj, I even agree on the reason, and I'd even trade him if he got an offer. My only point was... don't count on him being traded, even if he plays really well.

Veteran UFA rentals who should be available for picks/prospects

Nabokov

Khabibulin

Sanford

Could also be available but not a guaranteed sellers team.

C. Mason

J. Hedberg

Younger goalie with potential, but has been a backup most of career.... UFA rental

Josh Harding

Young Goalies who would be available for the right price, team with long term goals

Jonathan Bernier

Corey Schneider

Anders Lindback

If you could squeeze a 5th or 6th round pick out of Budaj, and sign another backup goalie for next year... great... do it. I just don't see it happening.

[BlueKross]

I think I said maybe somebody looks at him if he get hot. That doesn't sound like I am counting on that happening. But you know you need a ticket to win the draw.

[DON]

I think I said maybe somebody looks at him if he get hot. That doesn't sound like I am counting on that happening. But you know you need a ticket to win the draw.

What is talk about goalies? Trade Budaj, why? He is an adequate back up, which is all they need and he trade vlaue would be dick-all. The Habs have much bigger fish to fry before ever looking at tarding Budaj.

Gauthier is having Weber showcased lately and Campoli and that Finn on 4th line are useless spare parts to be jettisoned.

Then i see Gill as being the next to go.

Up front Moan, Kostitsyn, Desharnais and Plekanec would all be valuable assets that should be at least shopped around, that is if the team is clean house and go a totally different direction under a new GM and coach.

Not that i dont want to see them as Habs come next fall, but Plekanec is signed to a fair salary, prime of career and could be a big part of a big trade and Desharnais is signed cheap and other 2 are upcoming UFAs who cant be let walk for nothing. And if Plekanec and Desharnais went and a bigger young centre came back, it would instantly change top 6 look of team.

But back up goalie is small potatoes and negative talk about Price, i just dont get it, he is playing for a weak team with a bunch of youngsters leading the way in front of him? Shootouts, sure i grant you that and Price will be first to admit he sucks and same goes for Canuck goalie, who also stands on his head most nights to keep that team in games.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

The, "Well, Price should be better" talk reminds me quite a bit of Roy talk in 95-96. Hopefully the result isn't the same.

[Commandant]

I think I said maybe somebody looks at him if he get hot. That doesn't sound like I am counting on that happening. But you know you need a ticket to win the draw.

I think we agree..... it'd be nice.... but so would winning the 649.

[Commandant]

What is talk about goalies? Trade Budaj, why? He is an adequate back up, which is all they need and he trade vlaue would be dick-all. The Habs have much bigger fish to fry before ever looking at tarding Budaj.

Gauthier is having Weber showcased lately and Campoli and that Finn on 4th line are useless spare parts to be jettisoned.

Then i see Gill as being the next to go.

Up front Moan, Kostitsyn, Desharnais and Plekanec would all be valuable assets that should be at least shopped around, that is if the team is clean house and go a totally different direction under a new GM and coach.

Not that i dont want to see them as Habs come next fall, but Plekanec is signed to a fair salary, prime of career and could be a big part of a big trade and Desharnais is signed cheap and other 2 are upcoming UFAs who cant be let walk for nothing. And if Plekanec and Desharnais went and a bigger young centre came back, it would instantly change top 6 look of team.

A whole bunch of guys need to go. If Budaj is moved for a draft pick and a similar backup goalie brought in next year, I won't cry.

He's okay and all, but he's also a dime a dozen. Which is why I don't think we'll be able to move him anyway.

We should just be looking for as many draft picks as possible is all.

I agree all the other guys you mention should be higher priorities to move. I wouldn't move Pleks though and I wouldn't give away DD, someone would have to make a decent offer before I trade him.

But back up goalie is small potatoes and negative talk about Price, i just dont get it, he is playing for a weak team with a bunch of youngsters leading the way in front of him? Shootouts, sure i grant you that and Price will be first to admit he sucks and same goes for Canuck goalie, who also stands on his head most nights to keep that team in games.

Agreed on that.