DON Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I'm sure there's 29 GM's out there trying to figure out how desperate Toronto is on moving Kessel. ...and the 8mil/ 2022, he's only 27 not in his 30's I dont care, do you really think Bergevin is interested in tearing team apart to try and fit him in? they have 6 more players to sign and only $5.25m in cap room. Exactly how would he fit under cap and in 2022 he will be years past his prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I dont care, do you really think Bergevin is interested in tearing team apart to try and fit him in? they have 6 more players to sign and only $5.25m in cap room. Exactly how would he fit under cap and in 2022 he will be years past his prime. The Leafs are taking a player back in a Kessel deal rather they like it or not. More than half the teams on his allow list are under a cap crunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I'm pretty much with xXx. Kessel is an elite offensive RW, one of the very best scoring wingers in the game, EXACTLY what the team needs organizationally. His speed game should fit nicely with our team design to boot. I'll grant that he's got a huge cap hit, and that he's not a 200-foot player. Those are downsides. But it's pretty hard to just turn your nose up at a game-breaking 35-goal scoring winger with blazing speed on a team whose lack of finish was the main reason for its playoff exit. Just pooh-poohing that would be insane. Maybe the guy I would talk to extensively before making a big push for Kessel is Therrien. We have no reasonable grounds to believe that Kessel is going to morph from what he is - which is a gifted, idiot-savant type offensive player - into some blood-and-guts two-way 'complete' hockey player. No doubt he can be nudged in the direction of basic defensive responsibility and team play (getting him out of TO and into a healthy organizational culture could work wonders), but he'll never be a Selke candidate. He's one of these guys where you just have to open the bench door and let him go play, not try to overcoach. Can Therrien accept that? Or is he going to go to war with Kessel trying to turn him into Bob Gainey? If so, then $8 mil is too much to spend. YUP yup and yup. Actually if Le Genius does to Kessel what he did to Vanek then 5 dollars is too much cause he will be worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yes Vanek only had 15points in 18games, poor bugger. And 10pts in 17playoff games, not great but under his new coach in Minn, Vanek had 56pts in 90 games. So I have to assume Minni coach is badder coach than Therrien and really mistreated his superstar? I don't think Kessel producing offense if he came to he Habs is the issue; moreso that he costs $8m/yr till forever and is not known as hard worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yes Vanek only had 15points in 18games, poor bugger. And 10pts in 17playoff games, not great but under his new coach in Minn, Vanek had 56pts in 90 games. So I have to assume Minni coach is badder coach than Therrien and really mistreated his superstar? I don't think Kessel producing offense if he came to he Habs is the issue; moreso that he costs $8m/yr till forever and is not known as hard worker. So Don where is the CUP? These guys are fantastic and Le Genius is the cat's ass ( sorry I meant Meow). How come we don't win? Don do you ever see us winning? Or are you happy the way it is? There are no problems with this team? You are the ultimate mr. happy and I love you for it but this team has to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So Don where is the CUP? These guys are fantastic and Le Genius is the cat's ass ( sorry I meant Meow). How come we don't win? Don do you ever see us winning? Or are you happy the way it is? There are no problems with this team? You are the ultimate mr. happy and I love you for it but this team has to improve. lol Yea why even keep score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So Don where is the CUP? These guys are fantastic and Le Genius is the cat's ass ( sorry I meant Meow). How come we don't win? Don do you ever see us winning? Or are you happy the way it is? There are no problems with this team? You are the ultimate mr. happy and I love you for it but this team has to improve. lol Yea why even keep score. Just how far away do you guys think the Habs were from going further?(and really that's a post or 2) Blow it up to get a scorer at any/all costs? Fire the coach? Jeez Louise... I agree that wee need scoring help, or we need some luck, but this team finished #2 overall guys, be realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Thread is Kessel and you mentioned he would be like Vanek under Therrien and I think many would say great, because Vanek did fine and produced more than he did this year in Minni. I didn't say anything about Habs winning cup, but I think they are (minimum) 1 All Star forward short, or possibly if Galchenyuk and couple others have career years and rip it up, might do it as well? Maybe Hudon or Scherbak can come in and have a rookie of year performance also, who knows. So Hawks won did they, better than Rangers I suppose but now...can the Habs pick up a good cast off from Chicago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 A better question at this point would be, can anyone from the Eastern Conference build a team that can beat a Western Conference team in four of seven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yes, but not sure Kessel is the answer (but does remind me of Iverson for sure, but head not quite as swelled) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Kessel may cost us Gallagher, Emelin and our 1st rd..do we go for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV-G Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Interesting, I was in contact with one of the top english Montreal Newsprint writers and I asked him what he thought about Montreal's interest in Phil Kessel and this was his response, "No chance at all. He's not their type of player". I remember last year I asked him if he thought Montreal had any interest in Nail Yakupov and he told me then they had no interest whatsoever. So with that response from an "insider" so to speak, someone very well connected, in my mind there will be no chance Montreal goes knocking on Toronto's door to inquire about Phil. But it was interesting to think about the "what if"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Kessel may cost us Gallagher, Emelin and our 1st rd..do we go for it? It's personal bias but I'm not giving up Gallagher without acquiring someone who has his same energy and relentless tenacity. To give up Gallagher I better be getting Ovechkin back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 If someone asks about Gallagher, we should just laugh. NO WAY. As for the Cup, I don't know. It's easier to think in terms of making the Finals. As far as that goes, we're very close. I thought, going into the season, that we were a shade behind only Tampa Bay and Boston (!) in terms of making that goal. Replace Boston with the Rangers and that's basically correct. With Petry signed, we look pretty good on the back end. It's at FW we're comparatively weak. The failure of Galchenyuk to evolve into something genuinely impactful is the fundamental issue; he was supposed to be the Emerging Star that would complement Pacioretty. In the absence of that, we just don't have enough. But who knows, if Galy takes a step forward, that could make a difference. What will be interesting to see is whether Zoot Suit tries to solve this problem by a Big Move (e.g., Kessel), or if he reverts back to the 'Roll Three Lines' model by trying to add secondary scoring. And then there is the question of whether he will try to reach the Finals without 'fixing' the situation at C. (One under-discussed aspect of acquiring Kessel is that his cap hit would presumably rule out any possibility of signing a major C). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I think we already have the centres for year and I think will get an upgrade on PAP on the wing and maybe deal one d-man to make $$ fit. I think I have mention the $56million Kessel will get several times and main reason he will never be a Hab (that and he is a soft floater). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 To answer the original question...HELL NO!!! I don't think Bergevin is that stupid! We don't need another smurf up front. Granted, he's got talent, but he's lazy, has absolutely no defensive capabilities, is a cancer in the locker room, shows up when he feels like it and isn't what I would call a character guy. Thanks, but no thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Kessel may cost us Gallagher, Emelin and our 1st rd..do we go for it? No. Gallagher ain't going nowhere. They can have emelin and gilbert. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Those guys won't get us much in return though. Gotta give to get..I'm not 100% against acquiring Kessel, but it'll have to be at a price we're willing to pay, for sure. One of Gallagher or Galchenyuk might have to go the other way i'm afraid. Emelin Pleks, Reway, and a pick? Could you imagine the carnage Max-Galchenyuk-Kessel would leave in their wake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 This is a rough topic. I have several thoughts on this, and they aren't all negative, and they aren't all positive. 1) The habs need offense. Kessel is offense. He doesn't offer anything more than that, but he does provide offense in more than adequate quantities. If there were no other factors, this is a nobrainer. Despite his many deficiencies, Kessel would make Montreal better. 2) Kessel is way overpriced. His Cap-hit is far greater than the benefits he offers. As such, there's no chance of this deal happening unless the Leafs hold some of his salary. 3) Comittment. Last I heard, the Leafs were hiring a special conditioning coach to deal specifically with Kessel. Getting him to buy into a system is apparently a chore, and it's something that would be required. His style of play with the Leafs would not be acceptable here. This is something that would need to be discussed with him before we ever agreed to trade for him. 4) Cost going the other way. This is the hardest part. The Leafs are going to want young talent. Quite frankly, Kessel's not old. I think the Leafs would be stupid to trade him. Work with him, get him in shape, get him onboard. Even if I were sure I wanted it to happen, I don't really see it as a possibility unless Kessel himself demands to leave Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Quite frankly, Kessel's not old. I think the Leafs would be stupid to trade him. Work with him, get him in shape, get him onboard. Even if I were sure I wanted it to happen, I don't really see it as a possibility unless Kessel himself demands to leave Toronto. That's a great point, and it's something I don't quite understand about the TO 'rebuilding' chatter. Why would you think you HAVE to get rid of a 27-year-old star player as a precondition for a successful rebuild, especially when the guy has an NTC that will handcuff your ability to maximize return? Why not have Babcock work with him instead? It's as if some psychological need to 'turn the page' overrules good hockey sense. (This resembles, on a bigger scale, the Canucks' offloading of Jason Garrison to the Lightning for a 2nd round pick - a strange decision by a new regime that seemed to want to turn players over just for the sake of doing so). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Value last year; DD 13.7points/$million Kessel 7.6points/$million (2013-14 DD 14.9/$m; Kessel 10/$m and Habs will need to trade a lot of good stuff and mortage future to fit him into team) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 To answer the original question...HELL NO!!! I don't think Bergevin is that stupid! We don't need another smurf up front. Granted, he's got talent, but he's lazy, has absolutely no defensive capabilities, is a cancer in the locker room, shows up when he feels like it and isn't what I would call a character guy. Thanks, but no thanks! Correct. MB is steadfast on not mortgaging the future. Not at all. Leafs will want draft picks and young talent in every single deal they make. Habs will include none of that in every deal they make. Throwing them are cast offs will not interest Shanahan one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Correct. MB is steadfast on not mortgaging the future. Not at all. Leafs will want draft picks and young talent in every single deal they make. Habs will include none of that in every deal they make. Throwing them are cast offs will not interest Shanahan one bit. And how do we get that elusive sniper, if we refuse to give anything in return? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 And how do we get that elusive sniper, if we refuse to give anything in return? If the right deal is there, for the right player, you can bet Bergevin will move on it... I just don't think Kessel is the type of guy he is looking for. And we aren't trading Price to get it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 And how do we get that elusive sniper, if we refuse to give anything in return? Valid point. Keep in mind the possibility that the necessary goals can come by committee, though. Adding a much cheaper mid-range scorer could combine with an improved PP and internal improvement from existing young players to nudge our goal-scoring up into 'respectable' territory. The DRAMATIC ACQUISITION is a legitimate way to get there, but there are other possibilities too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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